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Comments
iray is way easier to use than lux/reality or octane : it's integrated in DAZ : lights, materials, settings and rendering. The results are impressive like Octane or LuxRender.
and yes, like with Octane, cuda acceleration helps a lot.
I wonder why Octane and Luxrender - which do exactly the same as Iray - never got that much attention and love. The "general opinion" always was something like "3Delight is good enough for Hollywood movies, so it is more than good enough for us."
But now with Iray, suddenly everyone seems to drop 3Delight and claims Iray to be the holy grail. As said before, Luxrender and Octane do the same.
I, for myself, will continue using 3Delight until I see a real reason to use something else.
I've been using both, Iray gives out some nice renders for some things - but not having a Nvidia card and a slow computer Iray really has major time disadvantages over 3Delight, something that takes 30-40 minutes to render in 3Delight takes hours in Iray for me.
Yes there's a lot of info floating around in various threads but to find a particular solution you need to read pages and pages and then be able to understand what is being said.
Personally I really dislike the sudden complete jump to Iray that we are seeing in this store and others, I've just been over to Rendo and there's a new character over there for G2F but all the DS renders are done in Iray, I was about to purchase until I realised this - I want to see what it looks like in 3Delight - especially as 4.8 is still in beta.
For me the more I used Iray the more I have found myself going back to 3Delight.
One problem I've noticed, not only with RC3 but also with earlier versions, is that it doesn't seem to release memory after rendering (Iray), not releasing it until DS is closed, so that you, even if you only render small scenes, sooner or later will run out of memory.
And the frequent restarts (of DS) needed are a bit irritating.
So we could have 4.9, 4.10, 4.11 etc.? in many cases I have seen point versions used as a hint towards how much road is still ahead before the large jump.
Anyway, I am not asking for anything. Iray is more than enough for the time being :lol:.
About a month and a half ago I bought Reality 4 and tried using Luxrender.
I had a simple scene take 14 hours and still look terrible. At which point I asked for my money back.
Iray, I can easily slap a material on and sometimes take no more than 15 minutes, sometimes. That, and it's far better integrated.
Nvidia card?
Reality isn't a one click make art button no it takes time but can result in amazing renders.
Iray takes time and knowledge as well, the few really impressive renders I'm seeing coming out of Iray are done by the same people who understand the maths of the render engine and can produce amazing results in any render engine, I'm also seeing a lot of poor quality renders being produced that would in my opinion look a lot better done in 3delight.
As I said previously if you have a Nvidia card great if not well you will have long long render times and not always good results.
Nvidia card?
Reality isn't a one click make art button no it takes time but can result in amazing renders.
Iray takes time and knowledge as well, the few really impressive renders I'm seeing coming out of Iray are done by the same people who understand the maths of the render engine and can produce amazing results in any render engine, I'm also seeing a lot of poor quality renders being produced that would in my opinion look a lot better done in 3delight.
As I said previously if you have a Nvidia card great if not well you will have long long render times and not always good results.That does depend entirely on what you render. Equivalent scenes and lighting result in CPU only render times in Iray being on par with 3Delight. In some cases Iray is significantly faster with equivalent light. For example take Olympia HD, use an HDRI in Iray and UberEnvironment 2 at 4X setting with the same HDRI in 3Delight. You don't even have to turn on GI Bounce in 3Delight (which would give you equivalent lighting).
I am willing to bet that 3Delight renders just a little slower on your system.
So we could have 4.9, 4.10, 4.11 etc.? in many cases I have seen point versions used as a hint towards how much road is still ahead before the large jump.
Anyway, I am not asking for anything. Iray is more than enough for the time being :lol:.Between 4.6 and now we have added a few toys. Instancing, Geometry shells, HD Morphs, Open SubDiv, PTEX, and Iray are just a few examples. LOL. I suppose we should be on DS 6 or 7 by now. LOL
I am willing to bet that 3Delight renders just a little slower on your system.
Everything is slow on my machine - but I do agree although I don't use Uber lighting that much now - AoA lights are so very much faster - when it comes to transmaps yes Iray is if not faster certainly no slower, so if I'm using a lot of vegetation etc I'd use Iray. Sometimes the lighting just works better in Iray sometimes 3Delight.
I just dislike seeing this attitude that 3Delight is dead and its as if we shouldn't be using it anymore, look at the products that are being released in the store with all the promo renders done in Iray is it so difficult to do at least 1 in 3delight. Both engines to my mind have there strengths and their uses.
So we could have 4.9, 4.10, 4.11 etc.? in many cases I have seen point versions used as a hint towards how much road is still ahead before the large jump.
Anyway, I am not asking for anything. Iray is more than enough for the time being :lol:.Between 4.6 and now we have added a few toys. Instancing, Geometry shells, HD Morphs, Open SubDiv, PTEX, and Iray are just a few examples. LOL. I suppose we should be on DS 6 or 7 by now. LOL
All of which are wonderful (Instancing being probably my favourite) but we are still missing a cloth room to rival Posers its the one thing where DS cannot compete.
I am willing to bet that 3Delight renders just a little slower on your system.
Everything is slow on my machine - but I do agree although I don't use Uber lighting that much now - AoA lights are so very much faster - when it comes to transmaps yes Iray is if not faster certainly no slower, so if I'm using a lot of vegetation etc I'd use Iray. Sometimes the lighting just works better in Iray sometimes 3Delight.
I just dislike seeing this attitude that 3Delight is dead and its as if we shouldn't be using it anymore, look at the products that are being released in the store with all the promo renders done in Iray is it so difficult to do at least 1 in 3delight. Both engines to my mind have there strengths and their uses. Equivalent lighting. same scene. AOA is not equivalent lighting, it does not provide any bounce lighting at all. Try the simple test I suggested.
Promo images are a true example of Time is Money. They have to meet certain standards, and speed is essential, less time spent rendering means more time creating products. Apparently the Premier Artists you are referring to are finding that Iray suits their purposes better.
That does not mean that 3Delight is dead. If it was, why would we bother to put a new version of 3Delight in this version of DAZ Studio?
In many ways it is and was good enough to do just about anything with as long as you had a deep understanding of the program and all it entailed. Iray has a learning curve to be sure but once you start mastering that learning curve it is just easier to work with. I can look outside and see how bright a sunny day is and how much like actually comes through my window. I can turn on a 75 watt bulb and see how much light it creates and how far it spreads. I can look up all those camera settings and I know about how much light I can get away with for a 200 speed film and if I need to make some adjustments to it. Because Iray functions like the world around us it is just easier to draw from what we know about the world than have to try and figure out how to fake that real world. Will Iray be for everyone, every time? Of course not. But I suspect that by this time next year, when most products have Iray support, that it will be gloriously simple to set up scenes.
All of which are wonderful (Instancing being probably my favourite) but we are still missing a cloth room to rival Posers its the one thing where DS cannot compete. DAZ Studio does have dynamic cloth.In fact it is the Fashion Industry standard draping engine.
You really think we should only strive to implement a cloth engine like Poser's cloth engine?
LOL I don't know about you, but if DAZ 3D implemented an additional draping engine that is 12+ years old I, as a customer, would consider that a failure. LOL
All of which are wonderful (Instancing being probably my favourite) but we are still missing a cloth room to rival Posers its the one thing where DS cannot compete. DAZ Studio does have dynamic cloth.In fact it is the Fashion Industry standard draping engine.
You really think we should only strive to implement a cloth engine like Poser's cloth engine?
LOL I don't know about you, but if DAZ 3D implemented an additional draping engine that is 12+ years old I, as a customer, would consider that a failure. LOL
No thats not what I meant - I know very well that anything you did implement would far out do Posers cloth room, but it is still the thing that Poser has that DS doesn't - the ability to turn almost anything into dynamic cloth and drape it.
Sorry but the dynamics we have at the moment although excellent are of little use to the average user, there is so little now being released for it and it would be nice to be able to create our own.
Thanks to the DAZ Dev Team DAZ means innovation.
Congrats.
And you'd barely know it based on the number of dynamic items in the store and the user renders that show it off.
Once your deal with Nvidia is in full swing, consider making another one with the creators of Marvelous Designer. THAT's dynamic cloth.
SnowS
I've got most of what I want now, but dynamic cloth I would buy; considering how much I've spent since xmas, and considerer what I would spend on some good dynamic stuff - vanilla poses are good and the morphs that come with them, but they don't do a lot of what I need.
Need for adults, teens, kids, oh and monsters
...so far, no glaring issues with the new update (Win7).
I've been using both, Iray gives out some nice renders for some things - but not having a Nvidia card and a slow computer Iray really has major time disadvantages over 3Delight, something that takes 30-40 minutes to render in 3Delight takes hours in Iray for me.
Yes there's a lot of info floating around in various threads but to find a particular solution you need to read pages and pages and then be able to understand what is being said.
Personally I really dislike the sudden complete jump to Iray that we are seeing in this store and others, I've just been over to Rendo and there's a new character over there for G2F but all the DS renders are done in Iray, I was about to purchase until I realised this - I want to see what it looks like in 3Delight - especially as 4.8 is still in beta.
For me the more I used Iray the more I have found myself going back to 3Delight.
..I can understand that.
Yes 3DL does render quicker than Iray (CPU mode) even much quicker than it's previous versions...that is until I use UE. Recently rendered a scene with UE and only a 5 frame motion blur, total render time about 16.5 hours (and I have a pretty decent system). Another scene was rendering so slowly that based on the rate it was rendering at I calculated it would have taken over 25 hours to complete (and it hadn't even got to the real "hard stuff" yet like skin with SSS and hair heavy with transmaps).
When I do work in 3DL I prefer using AoA's advanced lights as they render much quicker and the flagging option allows me to pull off tricks I never could do in UE. Unfortunately since the release of the 4.7 general update, something with the shader mixer/baker was changed which broke the flagging feature when using SSS. It also broke a couple functions of the Atmospheric Cameras (Colour and Vignette) as well as the Graphic Art Cameras. These are tools I use a lot in 3DL and without them working the way they should, my interest in setting up scenes for the render engine has waned.
scorpio64dragon, of course Iray can take longer rendering than 3Delight on a CPU. It's an unbiased render engine and 3Delight is a biased render engine. 3Delight uses shortcuts to get to its final images, as do other biased render engines. Iray shines on Nvidia GPU renders... if you have a lot of CUDA cores on your card, that's similar to having a huge render farm.
Unbiased render engines compute all the data in a scene. On a CPU, that can take a long time.
If the renders from Iray look good in a promo shot, chances are they will look decent in 3Delight if the PA took care in making the textures and if the user knows how to use lights and setup scenes properly in 3Delight. 3Delight is a good render engine, especially if you know what you are doing. If you don't, buy some good light sets like the ones from wowie (you will need UberSurface2 Layered Shader for wowie's lights and the characters texture maps he uses for them to work best and remember to use Gamma 2.2) or InaneGlory's or Lantios' lights, among others. Remember, you have 30 days to return at DAZ if things don't actually work for you.
I personally don't buy much from the other stores due to user issues at those places and their refusal to shut them up.
And you'd barely know it based on the number of dynamic items in the store and the user renders that show it off.
SnowS
So the questions become, why there is very little dynamic clothing available for either engine? And why the clothing that is sold ends up in so few renders?
I think the key question will turn out to be "how well does dynamic clothing sell?" But that is just my thought on it.
So the questions become, why there is very little dynamic clothing available for either engine? And why the clothing that is sold ends up in so few renders?
I think the key question will turn out to be "how well does dynamic clothing sell?" But that is just my thought on it.
Because nobody else can make it. It's proprietary and comes only from Optitex.
Ditch them and find a better method. Letting DS users turn any obj into a dynamic would be a good start. lol :P
Um..no.. How many dynamic outfits do you see sold for poser? As many as conforming? Nearly as many? Almost never? Can anyone make dynamic clothing for poser? Pretty much yes. So if the reason it doesn't sell well here (and no it doesn't and never really did) is because not everyone can make it why are stores not flooded with dynamics for poser? The base answer is it takes more than a couple of clicks for it to work and most people don't have the patience for even a few minutes of drape time.
It sells, but because it can be used by multiple figures there's no need to sell 5 generations worth of the same outfit. Buy 1 and done.
That isn't what our sales figures show. Here poser dynamics sell even worse than Studio dynamics (and this goes back since before genesis so that is not it) and the few dynamic products for poser I bothered with at rendo did not do numbers worth follow up projects. If dynamics really sold well you would see as many or more dynamic products because as you said they can go on more than one figure or shape. Since they don't make up a large part of the products sold then you can count on it being because its not good business for most people to do them. And before we trot out "put people can make their own" there is really very little that people can't do themselves if they are motivated and you see good numbers for things that anyone can do themselves like lights and procedural materials.The whole of the content industry is based on people not wanting to do it themselves.
Then please, point me towards the tutorial that says how I can make my own dynamics for DS.
Right now it would involve using the cloth room in Poser with the same figure/pose as you're using in DS and importing the result into DS. While it works, not everyone has Poser. I personally do, but I don't think the answer to 'how can I make my own dynamics in daz' should be 'buy poser'.
I'm not the only person who has wished the current system would get thrown out the door.
It would be cool that if your default render engine is NVIDIA Iray at the time you load a prop in the scene DAZ Studio automatically apply the Iray Uber Base.
I'm confused.. where you speaking about Studio when you said "It sells, but because it can be used by multiple figures there’s no need to sell 5 generations worth of the same outfit. Buy 1 and done"? I thought you were talking about poser and my response clearly referenced poser and the idea that somehow it has a big dynamic following because people can "make their own". My response was in reference to your statement. If you were talking about studio and not poser than my explanation including poser and the ability to make your own for it would be off.
I think I read that it may be possible to create a shader that references both 3dl and Iray in one via shader mixer. Then studio would select the correct one based on which engine you had selected. Course I may have been dreaming that.