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Hi tomtom.w,
I am having exactly the same experience. During a render, a lot of memory seems to be taken up by the D.S app memory, and a very large portion to the file cache.
I have had renders hang due to the drop in memory, and my system has 12GB. I have now got a 'memory cleaner' utility that I run once or twice, during renders and that frees up mostly the file cache memory.
I am not sure if this is a bug that needs reporting, because I am sure this should not be happening. Maybe one of the Daz Staff will see this post and advise.
Cheers :-)
..as I mentioned previously, I upgraded from Reality2.5 to 4 and experienced nothing but trouble with the new version. While the update only cost me 19$ because I kept waiting for the promised fixes I needed (that I was told were in the works) I missed the refund window by about a week. I uninstalled it and went back to 3DL. In all, adding the original purchase of Reality 1.25, I laid out a total of about 76$ for the plugin which in it's last incarnation had serious bugs and glacial render times.
Then Iray showed up and I haven't looked back.
...excellent point.
That isn't what our sales figures show. Here poser dynamics sell even worse than Studio dynamics (and this goes back since before genesis so that is not it) and the few dynamic products for poser I bothered with at rendo did not do numbers worth follow up projects. If dynamics really sold well you would see as many or more dynamic products because as you said they can go on more than one figure or shape. Since they don't make up a large part of the products sold then you can count on it being because its not good business for most people to do them. And before we trot out "put people can make their own" there is really very little that people can't do themselves if they are motivated and you see good numbers for things that anyone can do themselves like lights and procedural materials.The whole of the content industry is based on people not wanting to do it themselves.
...but the beauty with Poser dynamics is you can clothify conforming clothing. In Daz you can only use the the premade Optitex content and to make it work well, you have to shell out and extra 50$ for the advanced dynamic control plugin.
Then please, point me towards the tutorial that says how I can make my own dynamics for DS.
Right now it would involve using the cloth room in Poser with the same figure/pose as you're using in DS and importing the result into DS. While it works, not everyone has Poser. I personally do, but I don't think the answer to 'how can I make my own dynamics in daz' should be 'buy poser'.
I'm not the only person who has wished the current system would get thrown out the door.
...+1
Um..no.. How many dynamic outfits do you see sold for poser? As many as conforming? Nearly as many? Almost never? Can anyone make dynamic clothing for poser? Pretty much yes. So if the reason it doesn't sell well here (and no it doesn't and never really did) is because not everyone can make it why are stores not flooded with dynamics for poser? The base answer is it takes more than a couple of clicks for it to work and most people don't have the patience for even a few minutes of drape time.
My take - I'm not interested in buying dynamic outfits; what I want is for this item, in this scene I want to be able to treat an outfit as a dynamic outfit; something I believe is possible in Poser but not Studio.
Exactly. If I'm not mistaken, Blender can create dynamic cloth from meshes very well and it's free. Would it be absolutely impossible to implement a similar engine (along with stuff like Blender's hair and a host of other things that it's been able to do for years now)?
I love Studio and it continues to improve, but we're not there yet when it comes to dynamic cloth. I know someone who routinely exports static meshes from Marvelous Designer to use in Studio because she can't make - or buy- what she needs for Studio.
...hm, maybe the only reason we don't have a system that allows us to turn OBJs into dynamic cloth is because if we did, DAZ couldn't sell us dynamic cloth...
...the issue I have with with Blender though is its clunky and cumbersome UI which is why I continue to use Poser Pro for creating dynamic cloth.
I agree that going with a software developer that sells an application none of us could afford (13,000$) was a mistake for Daz. I only have three Dynamic items, two were freebies (the flag and bed sheet) and the other is the Dynamic Kimono which I have never used because after the fact I learned it requires the purchase of a 50$ plugin (besides I have SickleYield's Furisode which works just fine).
The other issue I have is that scaling does not work with Optitex dynamics.
That isn't it. DAZ would love to sell more stuff that people could turn into dynamics if they wanted too. The bottom line does not care if a piece of clothing is conforming, dynamic or conforming you turn into dynamic. All it sees is if something sells and if the bottom line is happy people get to keep eating and all that jazz. I am sure DAZ would be thrilled with a new system or two or three to sell. That is because they are in the business of sales and those would be sales.
What has been lacking is someone(s) willing to put the man hours and take the risk to develop a dynamic system for studio. Something like that isn't an ordinary product and not only takes major development time it also takes a skill set that not that many people are going to have. If it were easy or something most people could code it would have happened a long time ago.
Frankly I would love for another method of dynamics to be introduced. I personally would benefit both aesthetically and financially. I'm one of the rare few who is willing to wait on drapes much of the time and for me a dynamic drape is often less trouble than sorting out conforming clothes and how picky they are about poses. But that is just not true for the vast majority of users. It is possible, but not wildly likely, that more people will want to use dynamics now that we have Iray because in many situations they are more realistic. But I'm not sure that Iray will overcome the impatience that prevents most users from really loving dynamics on a regular basis. You have no idea how much I wish this were not the case but the way things are.
@KyotoKid: I was just saying it would be nice to implement dynamic systems like Blender has, not to use Blender. However, Blender has become much easier to use in recent updates, including the ability to left-click for all the usual commands we're used to, and customizable menus and panes. I started learning it for about a week and it was much easier than I expected.
The main problem of course is that DAZ content won't natively work in it (or anything except for Studio and Carrara), so I'm sticking with Studio. Just wish we had a few more of Blender's features.
...I've given up on Blender. I've had people tell me this or that was "improved", but when I would download and install the latest version, I found myself stymied as I either still had to memorise a bunch of hotkeys or write scripts (which I am not good at) just to accomplish simple tasks I can easily do in Hexagon or Daz Studio with a pointing device..
So the questions become, why there is very little dynamic clothing available for either engine? And why the clothing that is sold ends up in so few renders?
I think the key question will turn out to be "how well does dynamic clothing sell?" But that is just my thought on it.
Because nobody else can make it. It's proprietary and comes only from Optitex.
Ditch them and find a better method. Letting DS users turn any obj into a dynamic would be a good start. lol :P
100% agree..... for content creators it would be a boon to have a draping option to help with fitting clothing we are making. Would give more realistic effects to the materials, make JCM's more realistic too. Dynamics should be your next "toy" you guys give us.... PLEASE!
...+1 (more meaningless text because the forum software doesn't like simple responses)
I don't have a Nvidia card and am unlikely to be able to afford one any time soon or not, especially one that cost hundreds of pounds with lots of memory which seems to be what you are going to need if you want more than 1 figure and props in the scene. My machine is not all that powerful but personally I don't think the hardware should dictate whether or not I can produce good art or not. I often have to render in layers for large scenes this takes long enough in 3delight in Iray it would take forever.
I have light sets don't often use them out of the box, personally I don't like Lantios lights at all. Inaneglory's yes I use those a lot and I have been using Ubersurface 2 since it came out - I think you missed the point of my posts completely I don't have problems with 3delight and getting the effect I like especially as I really don't care about Photorealistic images its just not my thing. All I'm trying to say is 3Delight has it worth and not all of us are as keen on Iray as an end to a means and think its the solution to the Make Art Button.
I buy from other stores and don't usually have problems with things some things at other stores are Poser only things like Poser dynamics will not work at all in DS you need to read the info properly the only place you will find dynamics that work in DS is hear at the Daz Store, some Poser mats etc won't look the same in DS and need tweaking; you need to understand how to install products correctly and how to point DS to see the installed products, Poser products show up under the Poser runtime.
Buying from other stores is fine as long as you understand how things work differently in each program, perhaps until you do it would be best to just buy products that are created for the render engine of you choice; I also understand how some people just don't want to do any work on textures etc and just want a one click solution.
and I'm not sure who you think should 'shut up' I would hate to see other stores close down competition is actually a good thing and variety is after all the spice of life.
...Iray is far from being a "make art" button. To get things to look right takes a goodly amount of effort. A lot of us are still "flying by the seat of our pants" with it as it is so "new" and there isn't a huge library of shaders available (yet). Those who know their way around the shader mixer have been doing some impressive work and hopefully will result in resource materials others can use.
For a "free" hobbyist's application to be able to produce pro quality renders on par with 3DS Max or Maya is a huge step. As I also do freelance work, for me having access to and knowing my way around Iray opens more doors for commissions.
My system is no 3.5Ghz 64 GB "juggernaut" either, but I can get high quality finished renders in a "reasonable" amount of time in CPU mode which is enough for me. Yes, I would like a more capable GPU than I have, but I'm content to wait until the Nvidia Maxwell 980 is released (8 GB video memory).
We all have to go with what works best for us. For me Iray is much more efficient than UE or LuxRender as well as being more cost effective than Octane. As I mentioned three of my most oft used tools in 3DL have been compromised, and in one case, made useless, by changes to the Shader Mixer/Baker which has limited what I can accomplish with the render engine. Once these issues are fixed, then yes, 3DL becomes useful to me again for a good portion of my illustration work.
but I’m content to wait until the Nvidia Maxwell 980 is released (8 GB video memory).
through it was out - $900
True, Iray is more of a "make everyone's art look exactly the same" button. ;)
It's not that it isn't extremely impressive, but photorealism is very hard to postwork into anything less-than-realistic and if you put all the amazing car renders we've already seen in one folder, you wouldn't be able to tell who rendered what. It's great that many people will be able to get nice results, but I personally don't find it all that 'artistic'. That's just me though, and I still enjoy looking at what other people are rendering with it.
And in the uk it will probably be a lot more - with a quick look I can only find 4GB ones that the cheapest I could find was just under £500. My whole computer cost less.
True, Iray is more of a "make everyone's art look exactly the same" button. ;)
It's not that it isn't extremely impressive, but photorealism is very hard to postwork into anything less-than-realistic and if you put all the amazing car renders we've already seen in one folder, you wouldn't be able to tell who rendered what. It's great that many people will be able to get nice results, but I personally don't find it all that 'artistic'. That's just me though, and I still enjoy looking at what other people are rendering with it.
Well said.
And in the uk it will probably be a lot more - with a quick look I can only find 4GB ones that the cheapest I could find was just under £500. My whole computer cost less.
I found an Asus on special offer for under £200, it's the latest Strix and has 4GB of GDDR5 which isn't bad. If I could have afforded it I might have considered it.
CHEERS!
True, Iray is more of a "make everyone's art look exactly the same" button. ;)
It's not that it isn't extremely impressive, but photorealism is very hard to postwork into anything less-than-realistic and if you put all the amazing car renders we've already seen in one folder, you wouldn't be able to tell who rendered what. It's great that many people will be able to get nice results, but I personally don't find it all that 'artistic'. That's just me though, and I still enjoy looking at what other people are rendering with it.
It isn't render quality that determines if something is artistic or not, it's scene, lighting and composition. Just like with photography, anyone can buy a good camera, provided they have the money for it, but that doesn't make anyone an artist, or anyone's photos artistic.
It isn't render quality that determines if something is artistic or not, it's scene, lighting and composition. Just like with photography, anyone can buy a good camera, provided they have the money for it, but that doesn't make anyone an artist, or anyone's photos artistic.
I dont think that's what she's getting at. Spend a couple hours rendering with a PBR using optimized lights/materials/etc (Iray, Octane, etc). Now go postwork the hair- make it longer, change the color, add maybe attach a rose on the side.
You'll immediately tell what's painted and what's not, because it's very hard to paint realism. It can be done, I've seen some excellent paintings over time, but that's a skill that takes years to master.
It isn't render quality that determines if something is artistic or not, it's scene, lighting and composition. Just like with photography, anyone can buy a good camera, provided they have the money for it, but that doesn't make anyone an artist, or anyone's photos artistic.
I dont think that's what she's getting at. Spend a couple hours rendering with a PBR using optimized lights/materials/etc (Iray, Octane, etc). Now go postwork the hair- make it longer, change the color, add maybe attach a rose on the side.
You'll immediately tell what's painted and what's not, because it's very hard to paint realism. It can be done, I've seen some excellent paintings over time, but that's a skill that takes years to master.
A photoreal renderer, like Iray, is a virtual camera and requires a rethink. With more work done before pressing the render button, and less work done after rendering. For those who want to work the "old fashioned way" DS 4.8 still includes 3delight (and from what I've read here an improved version of it), so noone is forced to switch to Iray.
The biggest problem with using Iray right now is a lack of hair that looks good in it, but I'm sure the content creators are working hard right now, and will release good looking hair as soon as the production version of DS 4.8 is ready for download.
My guess is you are misunderstanding a few things. So I am going to do my best to clarify things.
Our testing shows that the same scene with equivalent lighting, using only CPU mode, renders in about the same time. Some times 3Delight is faster, some times Iray is faster, but on average it is the same.If you are running a 64 bit system there is no need to render in layers in either render engine.
If you are not running a 64 bit system, then you aren't using Iray. I doubt you would complain about features you haven't even seen, or am I misunderstanding something?
My main 3D box has an old, non CUDA capable NVIDIA card and yet I am happily playing with Iray (CPU, on old E8400).
Very true, and I was even only referring to simple color correction. It is much easier to make a render look artistic or painterly when it has more varied levels of contrast. Photorealistic renders are generally more balanced, and color correction has less of a dramatic effect.
Haha, why does everyone stop reading after the "Snow" part of my name and assume I'm female? There's a "Sultan" part too. ;)
If you are running a 64 bit system there is no need to render in layers in either render engine.
If you are not running a 64 bit system, then you aren't using Iray. I doubt you would complain about features you haven't even seen, or am I misunderstanding something?
Thanks for the explanations but - I know Iray doesn't have to have a Nvidia card I am using Iray to render with as I have said sometimes its suits my purpose other times it doesn't.
I have a 64 bit machine but only 8GB of memory and its not very fast so if I want scenery and more than 3 fully dressed and morphed figures in the scene I need to render in layers.
I've tested rendering the same scene in 3Delight and Iray one took 2hrs and still looked a bit grainy the other took about 40 minutes.
I'm not trying to cause an argument I think the inclusion of Iray into DS is an excellent advancement - to have a choice is wonderful but I really am hoping that vendors aren't going to go all out Iray and remember that some of sometimes some of us still use 3delight and would like to see a 3Delight render of the product before purchasing just one would be nice. Some things rendered in Iray have problems seams show up where they don't in 3delight artefacts appear on rendering and other little problems. I've been seeing this with a few things and there's a chance that it will go the other way for products that are optimised for Iray, Iray optimised surfaces can look awful in 3Delight.
Most of the time I work behind a very basic laptop with no nvidia card, but, I keep the render window as small as posible to gain some speed and see the overall result, when I'm satisfied with the results I change render window size to my needs.
When I'm home it's another story as I have a decent Intel i7 w/NVIDIA GTX 780 with a 27" multi-touch screen, but, there's always a BUT, sometimes I have to share it with my 10 year old toddler.
One thing (well, two related things) to check are lighting and tone mapping. Long renders still looking grainy usually mean there isn't enough light for the current settings. Especially if you are rendering an interior image with limited local lights or relying on light entering through a window you are likely to need to adjust the Tone mapping settings in Render Settings - at least raise the film ISO.
I'm sure someone will release a PS script called, 'Make iRAY look like 3Delight', for all those who prefer that look. I use Octane and it's not difficult to change how a render looks in Photoshop or GIMP, especially the level of realism. In order to save time I think we'll be mixing iRAY with 3Delight to create our rendered scenes once we get the hang of how it all works.