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Agreed! But parenting everything in the scene to a group, although a bit tedious, totally doable;) And I recommend converting Kettu's sphere to aweEnvironment! Makes it much easier to integrate the scene with the HDRI, using the aweEnviroment exposure and the exposure for the environment shader.
It's a tradeoff. It works, but then you'd lose the flexibility of changing orientation on the fly in IPR.
For clarification, doing it properly means that there's no need for vector workarounds. It also has the advantage that every shadeop available in 3delight can take advantage of whenever they reference "world" space.
Even the latest build of Renderman still has some quirks regarding environment lookup for environment textures. They're still passing the string, rather than the actual (processed) map. So all exposure/gain/gamma/saturation processing needs to be baked into a copy of the HDRI texture and shaders should use this copy instead of the original one.
I guess you could try and do all this with DSscript and the scripted renderer, which is what kettu did.
...really nice.
Thanks so much Wowie. I'll make some notes of this. I have the issue SORT of resolved. Made some clothing for Gino that I'll include in the pack to beef it up and iRAY was a dream to create shaders for but you really feel the pain when trying to achieve similar results in 3DL even with Uber as the base! LOL
Don't forget, UberSurface2 was released in 2011. The free Uber shaders - even earlier.
It is possible to make them look alright... but let's just say "oldschool" technology demanded way more "artist time". Like, you should remember what setting up MS DOS games was like! :)
HAHAHA Never dealt with DOS games. Never used DOS for everyday stuff. Only when I needed too! Now Linux was a different story. I've written code for that.... YUK!
You're welcome :) And yes, if the light is too close you'll see the places it doesn't light. I'd say that if you want to integrate CG into an HDRI, it's best to use area lights sparingly. They won't light the envsphere.
As for 4.7, well then, unless your render samples were different, it's a reflection of how sampling strategy has changed between 3DL versions (I forgot they had done it between the two). Sampling matters. If you set shadow samples too low on the catcher, you'll see it becomes way less clean.
I like Linux systems actually. I've only coded for Windows, though.
Hmmm, what did you play in the 90s then?
...so there's a coupla interesting articles on the Turbosquid blog, and one of them mentions dedicated calibrated HDRIs and scenes used for StemCell standard development:
https://blog.turbosquid.com/2019/07/03/specializing-in-pbr-part-1-aicrovision/
So they (HDR maps) are not all made equal, and even the big guys admit it.
Yeah when I entered the CG Universe I kind of expected gravity to be constant from one day to the other
Never was into games. IN the 90's... well that decade was about recovery for me. I was a very heavy drinker and almost died from it.... I'm now about 28 years sober. So I did allot of art (natural media) as part of my recovery. I was just getting into computers then too so my first was one of those hideous Compaq computers running Windows 95... that's as far back as I go with computers. Funny, I SWORE I would never get into computing but when I got a taste there was no going back! LOL
Just in case anyone's wondering, you can get the Stemcell .exr HDRI maps from here:
https://www.turbosquid.com/3d-modeling/stemcell/stemcell-3d-modeling-workflow/stemcell-textures-materials/download-calibrated-environments-stemcell/
They're inside the .zip files of calibration scenes for each DCC. It's not super special, but it's a nice starting point. I'd love to have an actual studio HDRI map.
Sorry you had to go through dark times :(
Under Win 9.x, you had to deal with MS DOS a lot as a "power user". The Win 9.x OS's weren't a "shell" as much as Win 3.1 was, but still had DOS at their hearts. And for lot of games to run, you had to boot to DOS.
YUK! LOL I guess some enjoyed all that but I wasn't even aware at this time of what was happening with computing!
Mmmm . . . XMS / EMS - brings back some fond memories . . . not!
- Greg
Honoring RAMWolff's suggestions.
No bleed/boost.
With bleed/boost
Translucency boost for subsurface. I'll make the color user selectable too, plus you can use a blend between the subsurface absorption color and your chosen color. There will also be a strength dial, with texture input which technically sould work well with translucency maps. I haven't tested it though, so that may not work as it supposed to.
Renders above are with 0.75 strength. It's not linear, so 1 should bequite strong and probably needs a mask to tone it down.
Gummy/glowy nose at 1.1.
That's what I'm talking about. WOW.... Wowie! LOL
It's strange. I'm in a bit of a snit about the older Uber shader, you've come up with a clear and updated version that's far and away better so why isn't DAZ retiring the older version or embracing AWE fully like having it's published artists do more with it? I guess iRAY is ruling the roost but there are those that still use 3Delight on a regular basis so has me wondering WTF! LOL
Nicely done!
Will these features be added to the SS channel or translucency? With the current build, translucency color is taken from the diffuse color map, correct? Will this new feature make it possible to use independent translucency color using rgb maps?
Many (if not most) 3DL users are not obviously aiming for photorealism, so retiring those "oldschool" shaders would be disastrous;) And, as an animator, you know the importance of rendering speed:) Using vanilla rendering shaders and lighting and reducing the "realism" to ambient occlusion and raytraced shadows/reflections is obviously 10-20 times faster than using pathtracing.
The only thing that would make DAZ suddenly start rooting for 3DL would probably be if scripted pathtracing on CPU suddenly and magically would render 4 times faster the GPU rendering
Generally I think 3DL users have always been more of "do it yourself" artists, today even more so due to lack of support and one click solutions (presets).
But then again, as always, not sure what I'm talking about
20 times?..
It's not all as clear-cut actually. If you really know what you're doing, use all the optimisations right, and your scene plays up the strengths of REYES/hybrid, then you could probably bring render times down big time.
But.
If you forget to disable occlusion on transmapped surfaces, or need a few bounces of reflection/refraction on your "hero"... you will likely end up using at least as much time. Moreover, in terms of refraction, Ubers are super sensitive to bad topology.
What will generally render blazingly fast is toon shaders. With envlight limited to ambient only.
AO won't necessarily fly.
I actually re-rendered one of my old DS3 scenes a couple of years ago, out of curiosity. Granted I did it in DS3 (I still have an emergency install), so it was a way older 3DL version than the one currently built-in.
But it was all Ubers, and basically the scenario you describe, REYES + AO.
It took 36 minutes. Back then, on the old laptop, 1.5 hours IIRC, and yet. 36 minutes is not that much lower than what it takes to path-trace a similar scene on this same CPU. With vastly better visual results.
Not sure 3DL 12 offers much gain in the REYES hider over 3DL 10.
As far as I understand the situation, the only artists DAZ can "have" do anything are those who create DAZ O commissions. All the other brokered products they can either accept or refuse.
And then historically DAZ prefers DAZ O creators to use DAZ O shaders that they can distribute to the end-user for free. For example, the first UberSurface and AoA Subsurface are DAZ O; UberSurface2 and AWE are not. They are paid addons.
And then what Sven said comes into play - oldschool stuff may not necessarily be a gazillion times faster or easier to use, but it's what a lot of folks are used to. And, again, free.
DOS4GW <3 <3 <3
And did you ever have a "theoretically Sound Blaster compatible but not really" card? =D
Well I certainly agree. The whole process involves composing your scene wisely, choosing the right camera angles and so on.
True:) Skip AO and fake it with bounce lights or UE2 in ambient mode with a proper color gradient map and pretend it looks allright=)) When doing this I can render with 15-30 sec/frame at HD size. My target time for movies is a minute/frame. Indoor scenes tend to take longer due to more complex lighting and shaders. For outdoor scenes I use Omnifreaker's UberSoft light as AO and the AoA distant light, use the DS default shader as far as possible and convert transmapped stuff to Uber. But frankly even then some hair models are a pain to work with:)
I only made one half hearted attempt to see how low you can go with the quality settings with scripted pathtracing/aweSurface. Granted, you can speed up things a fair bit without losing to much in terms of quality.
// just noticed this one //
Grouping should be as simple as collapse all (scene menu) - select all (Ctrl+A works) - create new group. Collapsing helps prevent reparenting child items to the topmost group.
I've been using groups since the moment Richard H pointed out in one of the threads that if you group stuff, you can toggle the visibility of it all by just toggling it in the group. Incredibly useful for lighting, if anything.
And yeah, you can totally use aweEnvironment. I used one of the vanilla shaders simply for the case of those people who don't have the commercial pack.
For video, you could probably up the gaussian filter width which should let you get away with fewer samples...
So I dug out a coupla actual comparisons (not AWE, just my stuff):
https://www.deviantart.com/mustakettu85/art/Subsequent-are-the-revisions-c-660435897 - 52 minutes
https://www.deviantart.com/mustakettu85/art/Victoria-Aeterna-646377536 - 98 minutes (note the mirror wall; the sun is a distant light as well, so suboptimal; and the noise is not that bad, that's film grain added in post; I could upload a "raw" version if anyone doubts)
Oh, and these two were originally rendered to EXR in full 32 bit.
And then this - https://www.deviantart.com/mustakettu85/art/Return-of-the-Champions-260822692 - REYES + AO, 36 minutes.
Aargh, for some reason can't view them on the laptop
. Figure it could use a number of upgrades:( Nice thumbnails though=)) Will have to wait till I get to my main rig.
...if it were not for the HD meltdown last year. I'd have redone my bus stop scene using aweSurface. However the scene file itself was also lost and needs to be rebuilt from scratch (including the characters and cityscape mask) and I lost several freebie elements that are no longer available.
One of my friends use to say: It's never to late to give up
Yup, so I had a look and get your point:) But the thing with REYES is it can be dumbed down infinitely much and still look clean and (if you do it right) kind of cool. Well that's of course a matter of personal taste. And you can postwork the hell out of it, worst scenario=)) Kettu you had a bunch of really nice renders over there! Also loved the npr ones! Hither shore is just beautiful, and her expression really has some depth.
I think you forgot... AWE is free... the base is anyways. I have both the paid for version and the free version. Not sure what the differences are but I'm sure allot could be done with the base that's over in the Freepozitory (as I still call it)