Iray and hair - how to make it look good?

124

Comments

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited December 1969

    Ah, ok.

    It'd be nice, for skin, being able to save some of the fiddly details I've done while able to ctrl-apply it so that the maps are something else. Similar for hair -- don't touch the maps, just change all the other stuff.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited December 1969

    Very happy with how this hair turned out. It's not perfect, but considering how terrible my first attempts were...
    Xylia hair
    PBR specular/glossiness
    Base color very dark brown
    Gloss .5, share glossy inputs off, gloss color muted dark tan (play with colors!)
    Glossiness .5
    (I found the suggestion of all gloss dampened to 0 was too much)
    Backscatter .65
    Light reddish brown backscatter color (hair1 and scalp were one color, hair2 was a slightly different, lighter/redder shade for variation)
    Backscatter gloss .7

    I ignored refraction -- I found it made the hair too transparent. Also 0 translucence and SSS, for same reason.

    Top coat weight .6
    Color was a light pink, trying to add some highlight sheen
    Top coat glossiness .4 (more, too shiny, imo)
    Fresnel, top coat IOR 1.56

    Displacement for hair1/2: .5 weight, -.25 to .25
    Displacement for scalp: 0 (to ensure there's a solid base)

    Base bump 3.0

    My original attempts used WAY too much displacement and it looked like she smeared mud through her hair.

    Vic6HD3.png
    1236 x 2000 - 2M
  • SupernalPhantasiaSupernalPhantasia Posts: 41
    edited December 1969

    These settings appear to have completely fixed all the hair problems I was having. I actually made myself a little preset shader with these values - I still have to go in and add the diffuse, bump and opacity maps, but these settings have saved me so much tweaking time that it's no problem at all to update a couple of things manually.

    Thank you for sharing.

    You are very welcome adentonclark. I am so happy to hear it could help out so much. =)

  • Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,278
    edited December 1969

    I think this hair (Omri Hair for G2F) came out pretty well, particularly the translucence/backscattering. Settings based on Kamion99's, with modifications.

    monique1a.jpg
    1000 x 1294 - 910K
  • jag11jag11 Posts: 747
    edited December 1969

    Two versions of Fiora Hair using a custom normal map, and slight variation Kamions99's settings.

    brunette-1.jpg
    600 x 800 - 103K
    blonde-1.jpg
    600 x 800 - 119K
  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 202
    edited December 1969

    Okay, fine tuning and test rendering complete. Here is everything I used, so hopefully you can duplicate the experiment and get the same results -minus my personal character shape (I couldn't stand using the default shape, sorry!) and skin settings (I can share those too if desired). I did my best to stick with things that are available as default with D|Studio so no one would have to buy anything extra to practice with. However, I ended up using the mats SWAM made for their Jewel Hair for the final testing, but it looked just as good with the mats they made specifically for Toulouse Hair. Before I finished this round I did some more studying on human hair. This article was very helpful: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3250015/
    From what I read there, I decided to treat the backscattering and refraction colors as the "melanin" layers and the top coat as the specular reflection from the "scales". I suspect that if you treat the backscattering color as pheomelanin and tint it with reds or yellows, and the refraction color as the eumelanin and tint it with browns and blacks... you could get some really visually interesting results. For these settings they are pure white though and use the color maps that normally go in the diffuse color slot in 3Delight shaders as the pigmentation instead. This because I was striving for a good balance between simplicity and reality. Also, you can tint the top coat color for richer tones, but since the article mentioned that it reflected the color of the light shining on it rather than scattering more of the pigmentation of the hair, I chose to make it pure white as well to enable it to do just that. I did test multiple HDRs for different light colors and levels and the settings responded very well. =)

    Models:
    Genesis 2 Female
    Toulouse Hair
    Basicwear Top & Shorts (gray)

    Shape:
    Personal Character 100%

    Materials:
    Bree Diffuse/Bump/Opacity Maps - personal Iray adjustments
    Toulouse Hair Bump/Opacity Maps + Jewel Hair Diffuse Maps

    Pose:
    G2F basic pose 04
    Excitement Expression = 0.25
    Happy Expression = 0.25
    Smile Full Face Expression = 0.25
    Smile Open Full Face Expression = 0.25
    Eyes Up/Down: 0.50
    Eyes Side-Side: -0.35

    Camera:
    Headlamp = Off

    Render Settings:
    1080x1080
    Photoreal
    Optimization = Speed
    Filtering = Firefly & Noise
    Environment = Dome Only & Finite Sphere w/Ground
    Map = SnowPano_4k_Ref.hdr "New Snow"
    From: http://hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html
    Environment Lighting Resolution = 4000
    Ground Origin Y = 0.50


    Iray Uber Settings:

    Base Mixing = PBR Specular/Glossiness
    Base Color = 0 (Pure Black) - No Maps
    Diffuse Roughness = 0
    Translucency Weight = 0
    Glossy Layered Weight = 0
    Share Glossy Inputs = Off
    Glossy Color = 0 (Pure Black)
    Glossy Color Effect = Scatter Only
    Glossy Specular = 0 (Pure Black)
    Glossiness = 0
    Glossy Anisotropy = 0
    Backscattering Weight = 0.65
    Backscattering Color = 1 (Pure White) + Diffuse Map
    Backscattering Glossiness = 0.75
    Backscattering Anisotropy = 0
    Refraction Index = 1.55
    Refraction Weight = 0.45
    Refraction Color = 1 (Pure White) + Diffuse Map Again
    Refraction Glossiness = 0
    Abbe = 0
    Glossy Anisotropy Rotations = 0
    Base Thin Film = 0
    Base Bump = 1 + Bump Map
    Normal Map = N/A
    Metallic Flakes Weight = 0
    Top Coat Weight = 0.25
    Top Coat Color Effect = Scatter Only
    Top Coat Glossiness = 0.75
    Top Coat Layering Mode = Fresnel
    Top Coat IOR = 1.55
    Top Coat Anisotropy = 0
    Top Coat Anisotropy Rotations = 0
    Top Coat Thin Film = 0
    Top Coat Thin Film IOR = 1.50
    Top Coat Bump Mode = Height Map
    Top Coat Bump = 2 + Bump Map Again
    Thin Walled = On
    Emmission Color = 0 (Pure Black)
    Cut Out Opacity = 1 + Opacity Map
    Displacement Strength = N/A
    Horizontal Tiles = 1
    Horizontal Offset = 0
    Vertical Tiles = 1
    Vertical Offset = 0
    UV Set = Default UVs
    Smooth = On
    Angle = 89.90
    Round Corners Radius = 0
    Round Corners Accross Materials = On

    Thanks a lot. These settings are incredible work very well . Finally someone in this forum deigns to explain in some detail without much theory . Lots and lots of comments with theoretical speculations that does not solve anything .I think this is more technical . Thanks again.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited April 2015

    I'll have to try backscatter again. I had mixed results with it before...


    Oh wow, this is really making the diffuse maps more useful, thanks!

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • SupernalPhantasiaSupernalPhantasia Posts: 41
    edited December 1969

    Thank you very much! I am so happy to hear that was helpful! ^_^

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited December 1969

    I already linked it in the main Iray page, but the above backscatter approach worked well for Basic Hair (for G2):

    http://willbear.deviantart.com/art/Redhead-guy2-529954163

    I think I can squeeze even more realism out of it if I play with displacement (bump > displacement for the main hair, keep bump for skullcap)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 28,670
    edited April 2015

    ...used the above parameters (though had to set the Top Coat colour to a light red). Using Scarf Braid Hair and it still looks too "solid" even with the Iray shader, bump maps I made (the hair content doesn't actually have any, just the diffuse and opacity ones), and the bump turned up.

    Seems I get hair that either looks too wispy or that looks too solid. .

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited December 1969

    Woot. A mention on fhe main product thread that you can tile maps individually rather than globally ... was the break I needed for established products.
    My big problem is that cutout is very specific to hair shapes, and you can't tile it. HOWEVER...

    What I'm doing now is grabbing a generic hair pattern (the hardis thing linked earlier), putting it into Displacement and Refraction Weight (1), then set horizontal tiling to 16 or something.
    Now, the overall shape of the hair is defined by the default cutout, BUUUUT... within those shapes, the appearance of fine hairs.

    I love LAMH and similar for hair, but it can be hard to manage (obj size, extra workflow, extra render time, and if there are multiple figures... ugh).
    Being able to turn conforming regular hair into something interesting is very important.

    I'll have my example up in main Iray thread shortly.

  • 8eos88eos8 Posts: 166
    edited December 1969

    Here is an updated version of something I posted yesterday. It's mostly using Taigafaeri's settings, except that I turned Top Coat off (it looked strange with this hair), reduced Backscattering Weight to 0.3, and added some anisotropy (Backscattering Anisotropy = 0.13, Glossy Anisotropy Rotations = 0.25). Anyways, I think it's much improved over my previous attempt.

    kesh1-albedo2.jpg
    1200 x 1200 - 894K
  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited May 2015

    wrong location

    Post edited by Oso3D on
  • Second-CircleSecond-Circle Posts: 49
    edited December 1969

    Woot. A mention on fhe main product thread that you can tile maps individually rather than globally ... was the break I needed for established products.
    My big problem is that cutout is very specific to hair shapes, and you can't tile it. HOWEVER...

    What I'm doing now is grabbing a generic hair pattern (the hardis thing linked earlier), putting it into Displacement and Refraction Weight (1), then set horizontal tiling to 16 or something.
    Now, the overall shape of the hair is defined by the default cutout, BUUUUT... within those shapes, the appearance of fine hairs.

    I love LAMH and similar for hair, but it can be hard to manage (obj size, extra workflow, extra render time, and if there are multiple figures... ugh).
    Being able to turn conforming regular hair into something interesting is very important.

    I'll have my example up in main Iray thread shortly.

    I'll need to give this a go - was trying last night to work on hair and discovered the horizontal tiling thing by accident. Couldn't believe the difference in how fine the hair became just increasing it a little. Haven't had a chance to render anything up of any note yet and it was on a very straight hair mesh. When I tried touching vertical tiling it all went... well.. wrong :P

    Thanks for this :)

  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 202
    edited December 1969

    Horizontal Tiles is very useful.

  • madisonx_c5746f56a5madisonx_c5746f56a5 Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Hello all,

    Trying to learn Iray and ran into this issue with some hairs. Note the extreme white gloss (?) on top. I have tried using and adjusting many of the settings in this thread to no avail.

    Hair: Alyla
    Lighting: Painter Lights

    Thanks!

    Hair_Problem.png
    1080 x 1080 - 1M
  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 202
    edited December 1969

    MadisonXF said:
    Hello all,

    Trying to learn Iray and ran into this issue with some hairs. Note the extreme white gloss (?) on top. I have tried using and adjusting many of the settings in this thread to no avail.

    Hair: Alyla
    Lighting: Painter Lights

    Thanks!

    Apparently is the light. That Hair preset works great but sometimes the lights make it look overexposed. I dont know why.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,542
    edited June 2015

    Lights with geometry behind go wonky. Its an Iray thing (in the light settings there's a setting to make the emitter invisible but it doesn't work on translucency). I tried to position the lights so they don't end up behind the hair, but some angles it happens.

    Luckily the overlap isn't much. just select the null that the lights are parented to and raise it up a few inches on the y-axis (the value is 160, if you raise it up to 165 or so it should go away)

    *edit* oops, I did a test and its cutout opacity that's the culprit.

    Post edited by j cade on
  • IsazformsIsazforms Posts: 202
    edited December 1969

    Kamion99 said:
    Lights with geometry behind go wonky. Its an Iray thing (in the light settings there's a setting to make the emitter invisible but it doesn't work on translucency). I tried to position the lights so they don't end up behind the hair, but some angles it happens.

    Luckily the overlap isn't much. just select the null that the lights are parented to and raise it up a few inches on the y-axis (the value is 160, if you raise it up to 165 or so it should go away)

    *edit* oops, I did a test and its cutout opacity that's the culprit.

    I do not understand. Less cutout opacity?

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,542
    edited December 1969

    Just move the light-set up a little bit. currently the edge of one of the lights is sitting behind the hair and Iray doesn't like that.

  • madisonx_c5746f56a5madisonx_c5746f56a5 Posts: 224
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, I will try that!

  • KA1KA1 Posts: 878
    edited December 1969

    I guess we aren't allowed to promote available products not in the daz store (ie iRay hair shaders) on the daz forums? I'm a bit out of touch with the etiquette surrouding this.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986
    edited December 1969

    I guess we aren't allowed to promote available products not in the daz store (ie iRay hair shaders) on the daz forums? I'm a bit out of touch with the etiquette surrouding this.

    We are not allowed to post links to commercial items or freebies on commercial item pages. Nor ads for one's own commercial products.

    You can publish a render and say you were using x which is sold over at R or something like that.

    You can post a link to a freebie available at places such as sharecg.com for example.

  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 28,875
    edited December 1969

    Unsolicited Off Site Commercial links would routinely be removed.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 6,986
    edited December 1969

    chohole said:
    Unsolicited Off Site Commercial links would routinely be removed.

    Oh right ... the ST group never did catch on to that so I gave up over there.

    @kaiwootton or anybody else for that matter, know of some Iray friendly shaders for hair? tia

  • ToyenToyen Posts: 1,610
    edited December 1969

    So hows it going? Did anyone manage to come up with a good looking hair shader? : )

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 12,700
    edited December 1969

    Maybe put cutout opacity into glossy weight?

    I suspect what's happening is that the glossiness of the hair is extending beyond where the hair is supposed to be, and the cutout is somehow not applying enough, so you get a sheen off of the shape.

  • j cadej cade Posts: 1,542
    edited December 1969

    Maybe put cutout opacity into glossy weight?

    I suspect what's happening is that the glossiness of the hair is extending beyond where the hair is supposed to be, and the cutout is somehow not applying enough, so you get a sheen off of the shape.

    Tried that, no effect unfortunately. I think its either a bug or limitation of Iray. I think it's probably related to the issue with backfacing polygons and translucency, which is has also been bugging people in this thread.

  • MBuschMBusch Posts: 533
    edited December 1969

    I get some good results using the Iray shaders from Mec4D Unshaven 2 for Genesis 2 Male(s). The shaders are totally independent from textures.

    The Iray shaders from Leyton Hair for Genesis 3 Female(s) and Genesis 2 Female(s) by AprilYSH. While they are setup to work with the product textures you can apply it to other hair products pressing Control/Command key to preserve the original texture. It is a good starting point.

    OOT IrayPair Hair Shaders for DAZ Studio Iray by Outoftouch has a completely different shader setup. It works better on multi-layered hairs and brings a lot of textures to make the work a little bit easier.

    I my experience, the most beautiful results when using Iray shader comes from the fibermesh hairs. Unfortunately, there are few products using this technology.

  • ToyenToyen Posts: 1,610
    edited December 1969

    Here is my result:

    I like how softer the hair appears and the translucency but I can´t get the glossiness right.

    iray_hair_shader.png
    750 x 600 - 851K
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