DAZ Studio Pro BETA [Project Iradium] - version 4.8.0.4!

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  • Design Anvil - Razor42Design Anvil - Razor42 Posts: 1,127
    edited March 2015

    I was doing some displacement tests and I noted a few things.
    I thought maybe someone may find the info helpful.

    When using a base 3Delight shader displacement doesn't render in Iray at the moment.

    So I did few test with getting some displacement in Iray and I found a few things.

    First I added a primitive plane 1 metre tile with 1 Division. I applied the Iray Uber Base and added the grey squares displacement test map I had created. When rendering there was no displacement visible, I found that Iray doesn't appear to auto divide the geometry to give enough mesh to create the displaced surface automagically. So the 1 division on a primitive plane mesh doesn't provide enough mesh to show any displacement.

    I turned on the Show Hidden parameters in the Surface Panel and noticed a setting SubD Displacement Level setting. I turned this on and increased the setting slowly and with each increase in SubD the render showed more detail of the displacement map settings with increased render times. Be careful though pushing it too high may make an awfully long render.

    I also created a primitive 1 metre tile with 500 Divisions and again applied the Iray Uber base and the displacement map. And it then rendered the displacement as you would expect to see.

    So it looks like at the moment displacement will need to have the SubD level manually set if the mesh doesn't have enough detail to support the applied maps if you want see displacement in the render.

    DISP_3delite1.jpg
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    DISP_3delite2.jpg
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    Post edited by Design Anvil - Razor42 on
  • Eva1Eva1 Posts: 1,118
    edited December 1969

    I think it would be really helpful if some of the DAZ Administrators who are already familiar with Iray could post step-by-step directions on how to accomplish some of the basic tasks that all new users would benefit from. I'll post a simple example (and please correct it if it's not right)

    To more easily position the sun manually:

    - Make sure "NVIDIA Iray" is selected as the Engine in your Render Settings panel.
    - In the Environment Mode drop-down, select either Dome and Scene, Dome Only, or Sun-Sky Only.
    - In your Content Library panel, look for the Render Presets -> Iray folder. This will be added if you installed the Iray content through DIM.
    - You'll find a Sun Dial preset. Load it and an arrow-like object will appear in the scene.
    - Using either the Scene panel or the drop down in the Parameters panel, expand the Sun Dial object until you see the "Sun Chain". Select it.
    - In the Parameters panel, use the Elevation (up-down) and Azimuth (rotation) dials to move the sun. It will aim towards the center of the scene from wherever the large outer arrow is pointing.

    Hope it helps and please share your own tips, especially when it comes to indoor lighting and materials!

    I totally agree! Thanks Snowsultan, this type of thing is exactly what's needed and really should have been provided by the DAZ team.

    This BETA is fantastic without a doubt, and I'm really pleased to see these new features, but there will be many DS users who are not photographers, or who have never used any other software with an unbiased render before, so the learning curve will be steep for them.

    Having some documentation currently is good, but what there is isn't that helpful in the sense that there are a lot of settings for the renderer and shaders and it's a case of having to figure out what combinations of settings do. It doesn't help either that there are 40+ pages of posts, but only a handful so far actually have any helpful information such as Snowsultan posted regarding how to get started (most of the discussion seems to be about graphics cards).

    It's like having the ingredients for a recipe you've not made before and no instructions.......

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    DAZ_Jon said:
    A quick note for our customers, so you can't say we didn't let you know before most of you went out and bought a new video card, DAZ is working with some distributors to provide you the stellar deals, and unique value to DAZ customers, on NVIDIA cards directly. I can't go into any details, and if you see a great deal on a different website, by all means, go for it, but if you want to wait to see what we think will be a better value that we can bring you in the near future to help you on the hardware end, its in the pipeline that we're pushing hard finalize.

    Now we get some clarity as to why Iray becomes the render engine of choice. Until the email about DS4.8 dropped into my inbox I hadn't heard of it. So, is Daz now to become a hardware vendor as well as a software vendor!?

    I've also just gone through 13 pages relating to Nvidia on Google and have only found results regarding gaming. Is Daz Studio being used by Nvidia to test the waters in the 3D modelling and rendering marketplace!?

    I'd always thought of DS as a program that anyone could use no matter what hardware they had. Ok, yes, to an extent it still will be as you are keeping 3Delight so that non NVidia users can have a program they can still use effectively with their hardware and hopefully this will always prove to be the case.

    Obviously, as a business, you have to keep going in ways that will ensure a future and I do hope that future will always be an inclusive one for folks that have been with you for as long as I have.

    CHEERS!

  • TotteTotte Posts: 10,709
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    DAZ_Jon said:
    A quick note for our customers, so you can't say we didn't let you know before most of you went out and bought a new video card, DAZ is working with some distributors to provide you the stellar deals, and unique value to DAZ customers, on NVIDIA cards directly. I can't go into any details, and if you see a great deal on a different website, by all means, go for it, but if you want to wait to see what we think will be a better value that we can bring you in the near future to help you on the hardware end, its in the pipeline that we're pushing hard finalize.

    Now we get some clarity as to why Iray becomes the render engine of choice. Until the email about DS4.8 dropped into my inbox I hadn't heard of it. So, is Daz now to become a hardware vendor as well as a software vendor!?

    I've also just gone through 13 pages relating to Nvidia on Google and have only found results regarding gaming. Is Daz Studio being used by Nvidia to test the waters in the 3D modelling and rendering marketplace!?

    I'd always thought of DS as a program that anyone could use no matter what hardware they had. Ok, yes, to an extent it still will be as you are keeping 3Delight so that non NVidia users can have a program they can still use effectively with their hardware and hopefully this will always prove to be the case.

    Obviously, as a business, you have to keep going in ways that will ensure a future and I do hope that future will always be an inclusive one for folks that have been with you for as long as I have.

    CHEERS!
    As far as I know from what DAZ have been writing, 3Delight will be there and won't go away, but to move on competition from LuxRender, Octane, FluidRay and a handfull of other Physically based unbiased render engines, DAZ looked around, found IRay and nVidia and struck a deal. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that nVidia is making IRay to sell HW, but I tested IRay CPU only vs. 3Delight tracelevel 12 UberEnvironment2 Global Illumination mode and IRay rendered better and was three times faster.

  • DarwinsMishapDarwinsMishap Posts: 3,634
    edited December 1969

    A 13 minute test render using an exr file for the environment map, the dome and scene settings, and an overhead umbrella lamp for Poser Reality with the Iray emitter shader.

    The shirt is from Cyberpunk for M4 and the hair is Punk for Genesis. I didn't change the shirt settings other than to use the Iray base to set the displacement to 2. I set the hair's smoother up a few notches and added extra spec settings.

    The Iray base for the skin, and some serious tweaks in the bump, displacement, etc. The eye surface is the thin glass from Iray, tears are thin water and the cornea is thin glass with 1.45 refraction.

    Not bad, considering my Studio renders end up cooking for hours with the settings I tend to use. I'm going to let this cook overnight (I need sleep) to see how well it will get the bits of artifacts out in this.

    13_minute_Iray_Render.jpg
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  • DustRiderDustRider Posts: 2,098
    edited March 2015

    Rogerbee said:
    DAZ_Jon said:
    A quick note for our customers, so you can't say we didn't let you know before most of you went out and bought a new video card, DAZ is working with some distributors to provide you the stellar deals, and unique value to DAZ customers, on NVIDIA cards directly. I can't go into any details, and if you see a great deal on a different website, by all means, go for it, but if you want to wait to see what we think will be a better value that we can bring you in the near future to help you on the hardware end, its in the pipeline that we're pushing hard finalize.

    Now we get some clarity as to why Iray becomes the render engine of choice. Until the email about DS4.8 dropped into my inbox I hadn't heard of it. So, is Daz now to become a hardware vendor as well as a software vendor!?

    I've also just gone through 13 pages relating to Nvidia on Google and have only found results regarding gaming. Is Daz Studio being used by Nvidia to test the waters in the 3D modelling and rendering marketplace!?

    I'd always thought of DS as a program that anyone could use no matter what hardware they had. Ok, yes, to an extent it still will be as you are keeping 3Delight so that non NVidia users can have a program they can still use effectively with their hardware and hopefully this will always prove to be the case.

    Obviously, as a business, you have to keep going in ways that will ensure a future and I do hope that future will always be an inclusive one for folks that have been with you for as long as I have.

    CHEERS!
    Iray has been available for 3DS Max, Maya, and C4D since 2011, and as a plugin for Sketchup since 2010. It's been around for a number of years, and has even been used by Pixar as a part or their lighting pre-vis workflow (and most likely several other large studios). As I understand it, Including it in DS is simply the first time it's been available as a free option in a free 3D software.

    Anyone can use Iray. If you don't have a compatible GPU, you can use it in CPU mode, and still get excellent render times for a CPU only unbiased renderer. This will give all DS users integrated access to an unbiased render engine in DS. Now all users will have the choice to use either Iray or 3Delight, depending on what they want. Many may chose to not use Iray at all, since 3Delight is still an available option, but Iray will be there for those who want to used an unbiased renderer.

    Post edited by DustRider on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,358
    edited December 1969

    I've been applying the Iray Optimized MATs for G2F and G2M by just selecting the character and double clicking on the MAT icon. Is that the right way to do it? I ask, because it seems to make the eyes of my characters very dark, to the point that I sometimes cannot see the difference between pupil and iris. Most of the detail of the iris is not even visible, because it becomes so dark. I have tried several different characters and many eye colors. Suggestions?

    Here is an example with the character Gogo. I picked it for this example, because the materials had bright light blue eyes. both renders are with the Iray render engine with an HDRI in the dome. One render uses just the default Gogo materials and the other has the Iray optimized G2F mat applied.

    Gogo_Iray_optimized_mats_Iray_HDRI_render.jpg
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    Gogo_mats_Iray_HDRI_render.jpg
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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    A 13 minute test render using an exr file for the environment map, the dome and scene settings, and an overhead umbrella lamp for Poser Reality with the Iray emitter shader.

    The shirt is from Cyberpunk for M4 and the hair is Punk for Genesis. I didn't change the shirt settings other than to use the Iray base to set the displacement to 2. I set the hair's smoother up a few notches and added extra spec settings.

    The Iray base for the skin, and some serious tweaks in the bump, displacement, etc. The eye surface is the thin glass from Iray, tears are thin water and the cornea is thin glass with 1.45 refraction.

    Not bad, considering my Studio renders end up cooking for hours with the settings I tend to use. I'm going to let this cook overnight (I need sleep) to see how well it will get the bits of artifacts out in this.

    Yeah, got to admit that does look good and 13 mins is an acceptable time.

    CHEERS!

  • LindseyLindsey Posts: 1,679
    edited March 2015

    Anyone have any idea how viable Genesis will remain in Iray?

    I use both Genesis and Genesis 2 for various benefits -- I like having some freedom to tweak Genesis between genders (to make brothers and sisters, or whatnot), share clothes, and so on. But there are some detailed stuff (like Creature morphs) I like in Genesis 2.

    Obviously Genesis 2 has more detail, so will look a little better, but I worry about support and how easily I'll be able to tweak Genesis figures to make use of Iray shaders.


    I was able to convert the two supplied Iray G2 skin shaders for use on Genesis with Batch Convert Genesis 2 to Genesis and applied the G2M conversion to M5 in this Iray render.

    m5_iray.jpg
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    Post edited by Lindsey on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    Totte said:

    As far as I know from what DAZ have been writing, 3Delight will be there and won't go away, but to move on competition from LuxRender, Octane, FluidRay and a handfull of other Physically based unbiased render engines, DAZ looked around, found IRay and nVidia and struck a deal. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that nVidia is making IRay to sell HW, but I tested IRay CPU only vs. 3Delight tracelevel 12 UberEnvironment2 Global Illumination mode and IRay rendered better and was three times faster.

    That's fine,

    I do know that 3Delight will always be there. Until Jon posted I was mystified as to why Iray suddenly appeared when all talk I'd read was of Lux and Octane. A deal with NVidia to sell cards through Daz would not be of much benefit to customers outside the US unless they can do something really major when it comes to shipping costs. Right now, for UK users like me, they are really high and I try not to buy items requiring shipping from the US if I can possibly avoid it.

    Regarding long 3Delight render times, the AoA lights were brought in to combat them and I have had good results with them. How does Iray in CPU mode compare to them?

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • ScotsprincessScotsprincess Posts: 62
    edited December 1969

    Well I've been testing this just a bit since the upgrade. I understand the photo settings from my photography days. My biggest problem seems to be with the texturing and shaders. Grass shader won't do much of anything for me. The iray shaders are wonderful but there are none for things like grass, stone, ground or wood. I'll keep pounding away at it though cause I do love it.

  • ScotsprincessScotsprincess Posts: 62
    edited December 1969

    Barbult


    I’ve been applying the Iray Optimized MATs for G2F and G2M by just selecting the character and double clicking on the MAT icon. Is that the right way to do it? I ask, because it seems to make the eyes of my characters very dark, to the point that I sometimes cannot see the difference between pupil and iris. Most of the detail of the iris is not even visible, because it becomes so dark. I have tried several different characters and many eye colors. Suggestions?

    After clicking on the character, go to surfaces and highlight the skin surfaces, then click the iray shader. That's what I would do.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    dustrider said:

    Iray has been available for 3DS Max, Maya, and C4D since 2011, and as a plugin for Sketchup since 2010. It's been around for a number of years, and has even been used by Pixar as a part or their lighting pre-vis workflow (and most likely several other large studios). As I understand it, Including it in DS is simply the first time it's been available as a free option in a free 3D software.

    Anyone can use Iray. If you don't have a compatible GPU, you can use it in CPU mode, and still get excellent render times for a CPU only unbiased renderer. This will give all DS users integrated access to an unbiased render engine in DS. Now all users will have the choice to use either Iray or 3Delight, depending on what they want. Many may chose to not use Iray at all, since 3Delight is still an available option, but Iray will be there for those who want to used an unbiased renderer.

    I'm aware of CPU mode. I wasn't aware of Iray as I don't follow 3DS Max, Maya or C4D as they are all way beyond my price range and probably beyond my hardware capabilities. I get that it's nice to have options too, I like to get used to one before another comes along and DS is moving a little too fast for me at the moment. I haven't fully mastered 3Delight and haven't even done one Lux render yet.

    CHEERS!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,579
    edited March 2015

    ...I still don't have 3DL down totally yet, especially UE as for years I was still working in 32 bit and anything with 'Uber" preceding it would usually mean a render crash. Scripted rendering is totally beyond me as working in RSL (Renderman Shader Language) seems like flying a plane with all the instrumentation displays in Egyptian hieroglyphics.

    I was getting pretty good with AoA's Advanced lights (and SSS) when something in the 4.7 update messed with the flagging ability (as I understand possibly due to some changes that were made to the Shader Mixer). .

    Took Reality4 off my machine because of ongoing issues with cameras selection and materials from older scene files not appearing in the materials tab. Going to be hard pressed to re-install it after playing around with Iray. Even in CPU mode I am getting completed renders in less than two hours (same scene I posted the 3DL render of earlier in this thread),whereas with the Lux, that same scene (at the same resolution) would still have good deal of noise even after cooking for 9 - 10 hours.

    The other nice thing I noticed, in CPU mode Iray runs several degrees cooler than 3DL (about the same as Lux).

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    Mmm, there's something, does Iray work well with 32bit!?

    Obviously I will try a render with Iray in CPU just to see what I get, but, I think 3DL will still be my render engine of choice because I pretty much built my machine around it.

    CHEERS!

    PS (Doesn't Project Iradium sound like something that should come with an introduction by Stan Lee!?)

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • Security16Security16 Posts: 79
    edited December 1969

    I seem to have a massive problem my iray seems to be imaginary. There are all the other things from the content of the iray package EXCEPT THE ACTUAL RENDER ENGINE!
    Am I the only one with this issue?

  • MN-150374MN-150374 Posts: 923
    edited March 2015

    Eva1 said:
    I think it would be really helpful if some of the DAZ Administrators who are already familiar with Iray could post step-by-step directions on how to accomplish some of the basic tasks that all new users would benefit from. I'll post a simple example (and please correct it if it's not right)

    To more easily position the sun manually:

    - Make sure "NVIDIA Iray" is selected as the Engine in your Render Settings panel.
    - In the Environment Mode drop-down, select either Dome and Scene, Dome Only, or Sun-Sky Only.
    - In your Content Library panel, look for the Render Presets -> Iray folder. This will be added if you installed the Iray content through DIM.
    - You'll find a Sun Dial preset. Load it and an arrow-like object will appear in the scene.
    - Using either the Scene panel or the drop down in the Parameters panel, expand the Sun Dial object until you see the "Sun Chain". Select it.
    - In the Parameters panel, use the Elevation (up-down) and Azimuth (rotation) dials to move the sun. It will aim towards the center of the scene from wherever the large outer arrow is pointing.

    Hope it helps and please share your own tips, especially when it comes to indoor lighting and materials!

    I totally agree! Thanks Snowsultan, this type of thing is exactly what's needed and really should have been provided by the DAZ team.

    This BETA is fantastic without a doubt, and I'm really pleased to see these new features, but there will be many DS users who are not photographers, or who have never used any other software with an unbiased render before, so the learning curve will be steep for them.

    Having some documentation currently is good, but what there is isn't that helpful in the sense that there are a lot of settings for the renderer and shaders and it's a case of having to figure out what combinations of settings do. It doesn't help either that there are 40+ pages of posts, but only a handful so far actually have any helpful information such as Snowsultan posted regarding how to get started (most of the discussion seems to be about graphics cards).

    It's like having the ingredients for a recipe you've not made before and no instructions.......

    Totaly agree also, we need some basic explanations. I would really like to explore the new posibilities. But it is getting even more confusing when the informations getting scattered all over the forum in various threads. Somekind of a step-by-step guide for beginners would be great.

    Again I would like to learn more, but sorry if I have to say this, we didn´t ask for a new Render Engine. So it´s at least my take on this, I will not pay for a tutorial unless it is in Fast Grab. If you know what I mean. ;-)

    Post edited by MN-150374 on
  • MuireanneMuireanne Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    I haven't installed it yet ( and probably won't till the weekend) but I've been lurking the threads and IIRC it's 64bit only.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Muireanne said:
    I haven't installed it yet ( and probably won't till the weekend) but I've been lurking the threads and IIRC it's 64bit only.

    I see, so, we could be seeing the death knell for 32 bit Daz programs. Hopefully this might mean we get a 64bit version of Bryce.....

    CHEERS!

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 31,579
    edited December 1969

    ...I can only hope as Bryce is still the best for scenery and environment generation.

  • MuireanneMuireanne Posts: 82
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Muireanne said:
    I haven't installed it yet ( and probably won't till the weekend) but I've been lurking the threads and IIRC it's 64bit only.

    I see, so, we could be seeing the death knell for 32 bit Daz programs. Hopefully this might mean we get a 64bit version of Bryce.....

    CHEERS!

    Daz 4.8 is probably fine on 32bit ( don't quote me on that!) But yeah pretty sure Iray is 64 only. As for Bryce, good luck! I find a update for Carrara to be more likely.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited March 2015

    Why does Bryce get so neglected? From what I've seen it looks really good. When I had Poser, I bought Vue as it did really nice stuff and it bridged with it. When I went back to DS I wanted something that did the same thing, but I was reticent about Bryce, even though it bridges with DS, as it was only 32bit. Carrara has always been way too expensive for something I'd only use part of.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • MuireanneMuireanne Posts: 82
    edited March 2015

    Not really sure, I think I read somewhere that a lot of the original developers have moved on.
    Edit to add: I got carrara dirt cheap awhile back 1.99 for PC members :), that's being said I never use it because I hate the interface.

    Post edited by Muireanne on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    That's a shame if it's true. Is there no way the existing code can be adapted!? I was a bit annoyed with myself for investing so much in Vue and then ditching Poser, the one program that bridged with it, because I'd got as far with it as Daz would let me. Full use of Genesis was what lured me back and I would not go back to Poser now in any form.

    CHEERS!

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,998
    edited December 1969

    Muireanne said:
    Not really sure, I think I read somewhere that a lot of the original developers have moved on.
    Edit to add: I got carrara dirt cheap awhile back 1.99 for PC members :), that's being said I never use it because I hate the interface.

    I love Carrara's interface, and hate Daz Studio's (although I'll admit it has got better over time). I guess it's what you are used to using.

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    I do have a soft spot for Carrara, even though I don't use it. It came about because I bought a PC mag which had a copy of Carrara 5 as a coverdisc. It didn't have any content with it, so I contacted Daz and they said they couldn't provide it as they'd moved on to 6. However, I looked on the Daz site and found Daz Studio and the rest is history.

    CHEERS!

  • V3DigitimesV3Digitimes Posts: 2,331
    edited December 1969

    RAMWolff said:
    MrPoser said:
    What about existing shader products... do they work with this new render engine? For example amazing skins.

    Shaders are render engine specific. With those shaders that could be translated. we did our best, but most can not.

    Note you can still use 3Delight, and in fact this beta does include a new build of 3Delight as well. :)

    Hmmm, I'm actually in the middle of creating a bunch of shaders but using just the default surface tree for about 95% of them. So will shaders developed using a more basic shader tree work under the new rendering engine or will I need to start over or remake all of these? I'm up to about 300 shaders (release date unknown for now, esp now.... lol )

    Looks like you guys took the next leap. From the renders I've seen so far.... color me impressed!

    Hi RAMWolf,
    Amazing Skin is written in 3Delight language, so all the skin tones variation, and skin properties, will not work in Iray, which is written in "Iray" language. They will keep on working of course as soon as you select 3Delight as the render engine. I'll have a look at what can be done to make something for Iray, but it may not be technically possible, since in general PBR renders offer less opportunity in term of pre-calculations on maps. I wait for a more advanced release to have a look at it. But I'll give a try.

  • MasterstrokeMasterstroke Posts: 784
    edited December 1969

    The new renderer seems amaizing. One big problem though: You should be able to stop and save any time. At avery early stage the pictures allready look quite accepteble. It doesn't allways seem nessesary to go over the whole render time.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 4,998
    edited December 1969

    The new renderer seems amaizing. One big problem though: You should be able to stop and save any time. At avery early stage the pictures allready look quite accepteble. It doesn't allways seem nessesary to go over the whole render time.

    Once you cancel a render, it leaves the render window open so that you can save the image.

  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 801
    edited December 1969

    I really like Iray. I also like 3Delight. Having read earlier in these forums that 3delight will continue to be a part of Studio going forward makes me very happy because even though I am still taking my first baby steps with Iray I can already see that there are some things I want to create that would simply require 3Delight in order to get the results I want. Also, there is the fact that the lights and shaders I have learned to love using simply don't translate over to Iray yet -if ever. Both of these renderers have their individual strengths and having them both available for me to use is a huge benefit. Thank you DAZ for expanding our options in such a big way.

    That said, has anyone found or put together a list or reference to what the render setting in Iray actually do? I have noticed settings that reference photography and that's a bit of a help but there are things in there that I am not ashamed to admit that I am confused by.

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