Be Honest, Is Daz the best for animation?

MidyinMidyin Posts: 147
edited December 1969 in Art Studio

Hi all, So I been using DAZ for a few years now to make comics, but I want to get into 3D video..
Ever sense I was a kid watching Pixar movies, to now being a grown man watching cheesy horror movies on the sci-fi channel, I have always wanted to get into 3D animation...

The only problem is, I know absolutely NOTHING about making animations; so my question is, Is DAZ the best place to start for a guy that knows next to nothing about making the figures in his scenes move? or should i start someplace else.... maybe some place less complicated and/or intimidating?

is there any really good 3D Animation software out there that's a bit more streamlined to animation? can i load my existing scenes and models from DAZ into this possibly mythical unicorn of a program?


I'm sorry, this all seems a bit jumbled. let me rephrase the question.
Is there a program out there that's good for N00Bs to start on, but is also good enough for the pros? You know, One that once I really get the hang of what I'm doing will allow me to make the hollywood level Epic/Complex animations I dream about making?

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Comments

  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited January 2015

    iClone is the obvious one, for easy, but rather expensive, I use it
    you can download a demo from Reallusion that is still useable with limitations after the 30 day trial

    oh not Hollywood level though :lol:

    Post edited by Wendy_Carrara on
  • 24_Seven24_Seven Posts: 31
    edited January 2015

    I'm also new to animation software. So your question is the first one I asked also. The rest of the stuff DAZ does is really really cool, but in the end it's about how well it animates for me too. I ended up here for a few reasons. Price point was compelling. I also looked at iClone which I would have loved to try, but I don't think it's for the Mac which is what I use. But it looked really good with the ability to minimize render time to see what you're doing in full? Don't know really since I couldn't run it.

    Somebody somewhere said in one of the threads I read is that in the final analysis, it's hugely the animator and not as much the tool. I took that to heart. And combined with a free software with DAZ -- I'm on board. I also bought all the DAZ programs - Hexagon, Bryce and Carrara because they also were very very cheap. So I'm still looking at all of them. A lot of people liked Blender for beginners. But I've not needed to go past here.

    The other thing I'm discovering is that rendering time is a killer. So my thing is trying to find a happy medium where I get an animation that can actually be made on one computer where I don't have to stop work for a week/month long render. As such low polygon is looking better and better for animation. So I don't think you need Maya and that level for the likes of what I'm doing. So I'm thinking it all through myself. Hope you get some good posts to this thread. I'd be curious how wrong or right I am.

    Since I don't know animation, I'm seeing good things available from NLA and ani-blocks and all the pre-fab stuff until I actually get good. DAZ and the programs they own show great promise to me. I can't imagine needing more. Oh, I also got 3D-Coat at the end of the year sale. So for a modest cost I'm feeling very tooled up, certainly for my beginner level. I have no designs on getting a job somewhere. If I was going to do that, I would get/learn the software that company uses if I could afford it.

    This really is a golden age of tech tools to have choices like these.

    Post edited by 24_Seven on
  • ReallusionReallusion Posts: 115
    edited January 2015

    Hi Midyin,

    As WendyCats mentioned, iClone is designed mainly for this need ---- To streamline the animation process (facial and body animations) for everyone from beginners to experts. It works in real-time so that you can see what exactly is going on as you go, so that you can adjust animations, props and effects on the fly.

    iClone is also partnered up with DAZ, allowing users to use lots of DAZ characters inside iClone. So if you already have DAZ content then it is a good companion tool to get the most out of your DAZ characters. I suggest you download the free trial and give it a go. You can always ask back in the forums to get help from users. Once you download the free trial, here is a link to the online tutorials to speed things up. http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/iclone_training.aspx


    Let us know if you need any help with DAZ and iClone !!

    Post edited by Reallusion on
  • MidyinMidyin Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    THanks for the advice. I'll give IClone a try and tell yons what I think..

    I'll also bookmark and keep an eye on this thread, so anyone with any other suggestions, or even some tips and tricks to getting the best results. please feel free to post...
    I'm all ears.. lol

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    I started way back with Poser and Bryce. Eventually I discovered that Carrara can directly load Poser format elements (characters, props, etc.). This is seamless, with all the sliders, etc., and directly from its own browser, i.e. no import. And Carrara handles large scenes much better than Poser, at least the last version of Poser I used, several back. This is a big plus because of the huge amount of Poser content available at numerous websites, and for very affordable prices - especially if like me you stick to the older Gen4 characters with the associated clothes, hair, etc. I have tried Lightwave, and while its a great program, its harder to get my arms around. I tried an early version of Daz Studio and didn't care for it.

    Here are a couple of recent 1 minute animations done in Carrara with Poser format elements (and some FX with Particle Illusion):

    "Space Cadet Luther"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxcbh71VUlg&list=UUlMEK10oWdfqx6NaNAGJtFA

    "No Way Out"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez3oyjgMk4I&list=UUlMEK10oWdfqx6NaNAGJtFA

  • MidyinMidyin Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    Ok, having some complications. So I got IClone6(free trial), I wanted to load my DAZ Character and props into it, but that didn't work, so I google the problem, and found a video that said i needed a file named 3DXChange(because nothing can be simple), so i grabbed 3DXChange5(the latest version I could find), but everytime I open it it says there are some functions that may not bee accessible because I don't have IClone5(Screw you 3DXChange, I have IC6)...

    I went into DAZ, loaded up one of my characters, and exported them as a FBX, then I opened that file in 3DXChange. this is where i'm running into the problem..

    I'm supposed to be able to I'm suppose to be able to go into the Character tab and click "Convert to non-standard", but that option is greyed out and unclickable....
    What now?

  • ReallusionReallusion Posts: 115
    edited January 2015

    Hi Midyin,

    Ok, so the "Convert to non-standard character" button is greyed out, this is most likely because you haven't yet mapped out the bones of your character. The process is fairly quick and easy. This page will show you the process >> http://www.reallusion.com/iclone/pipeline/flow_character_daz3d_import.aspx


    Please let us know if you solve the problem, or if you need more help. =)

    Post edited by Reallusion on
  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited December 1969

    is because of this
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/39279/
    I should have suggested trial of iC5
    I do not know if the hotfix will work with the trial http://forum.reallusion.com/Topic221392-299-1.aspx

  • ReallusionReallusion Posts: 115
    edited December 1969

    Thank you Wendy. =)

  • MidyinMidyin Posts: 147
    edited January 2015

    OK! so I installed a program i'll never use to appease 3DXChange... sigh.....
    then I went ahead and exported on of my models as a FBX, but now there's a new issue(there always has to be one, right?), her hair is floating above her head like some kind of evil wig monster...

    I selected the hair, but(shocker) the the move object button is greyed out, and so are all my options in the Transform Tab, so not only did it load her in wrong, but it seems to be actively conspiring ti stop me from being able to fix the issue...

    So if I export it this way(With the hair floating above her head) can I adjust her hair from inside of IClone6?
    I played around with IClone 6 yesterday. the models seemed mostly un-editable. I could change their skin textures, hair style, and eye color, and I could bearly adjust their scale(So I guess that means No Kaiju battle movies), but it's weird to come from something like DAZ where you have 100% free editing options that basically say "Go nuts brother. lets see who or even what you end up making" 1o something so ridged I couldn't even change Heidi out of that dress and int jeans and a T-Shirt, so I'm worried that the way i save the model(When I export her again as an IAvatar) from 3DXChanger will be the final and un-editable form.


    Side Note:
    This 3DEXChange program seems to be working over-time to convince me it NOT worth paying for the full version.. lol

    Post edited by Midyin on
  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited December 1969

    was it a prop hair as in parented?
    if so that is a DAZ studio FBX export issue not a 3Dxchange import one
    you need to export the hair or any other parented items separately then attach them in iClone as DAZ makes a right mess of parenting in FBX export to ANY program
    it puts everything at 0.0.0
    this is why I suggested a trial, do not buy anything until you test it out if it suits you, I have made expensive software choices myself I regret by doing so.
    always do trials
    I can myself vouch for iClone, click on the :"do not click" in my sigline for my youtube channel for maybe not the best but certainly prolific examples, I have a lot of Carrara, Poser and DAZ studio Octane rendered stuff too so it may be hard to discern what was rendered with which software as I use many.

  • MidyinMidyin Posts: 147
    edited December 1969

    Ok Wendy. I considered trying to do the hair separately, but I wasn't sure if that would work...
    So I should Export nude bold models, and then all their clothing separately?

  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited December 1969

    clothing SHOULD be conformed and in FBX options tick merge skeletons
    hair that is conforming that is rigged to the model likewise
    it is just parented prop hair that is the issue
    hair you find in the scene tree on the figure's head
    bald figures are not a bad idea though, I often do them so I can swap hairs in iclone as iclone only animates and renders, you cannot dress etc in it, you bring the figures in as you want them complete.

  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited December 1969

    I’m worried that the way i save the model(When I export her again as an IAvatar) from 3DXChanger will be the final and un-editable form.

    yes any editing HAS to be done in studio on DAZ figures
    iClone content works differently, the G5 not Heidi and Mason, they are new and limited, use clonecloth which is all in one meshes swappable as uppers and lowers that can be retextured
  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited January 2015

    just to confuse you more
    and I know you want that
    if EDITABLE is your desire, my FAVORITE program is Carrara
    DAZ frequently puts it on sale
    does not render as fast as iClone but blows DAZ studio 3Delight out of the water!

    if DAZ studio animation is truly your desire
    I use Octane render plugin for DAZ studio but that is big bucks sit down before you look at Otoy and factor in your budget a good nVidia cuda graphics card (which iClone also likes BTW though not just nVidia at least)

    Post edited by Wendy_Carrara on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 4,976
    edited December 1969

    Midyin said:
    Hi all, So I been using DAZ for a few years now to make comics, but I want to get into 3D video..
    Ever sense I was a kid watching Pixar movies, to now being a grown man watching cheesy horror movies on the sci-fi channel, I have always wanted to get into 3D animation...

    The only problem is, I know absolutely NOTHING about making animations; so my question is, Is DAZ the best place to start for a guy that knows next to nothing about making the figures in his scenes move? or should i start someplace else.... maybe some place less complicated and/or intimidating?

    is there any really good 3D Animation software out there that's a bit more streamlined to animation? can i load my existing scenes and models from DAZ into this possibly mythical unicorn of a program?


    I'm sorry, this all seems a bit jumbled. let me rephrase the question.
    Is there a program out there that's good for N00Bs to start on, but is also good enough for the pros? You know, One that once I really get the hang of what I'm doing will allow me to make the hollywood level Epic/Complex animations I dream about making?

    there is only a few of things that limit daz from being a great animation program, the first is real time rendering., the second the lack of physic tools & dynamic controls, and lastly the lack of floor control to keep characters at to a certain level that you pre set..
    Other than than the poke threw's which can be solved with trans maps. once you learn how to over come those issues, Then daz can be a very good tool to learn basic animation. Daz is about all I use now for my animations. As with any 3D program your only limitd by your skills which come with practice and the use of the program.

    Good luck & make sure to post what you create :)

  • pmingpming Posts: 44
    edited December 1969

    Hiya!

    WARNING! LONG! :)

    Midyin said:
    Hi all, So I been using DAZ for a few years now to make comics, but I want to get into 3D video..
    Ever sense I was a kid watching Pixar movies, to now being a grown man watching cheesy horror movies on the sci-fi channel, I have always wanted to get into 3D animation...

    The only problem is, I know absolutely NOTHING about making animations; so my question is, Is DAZ the best place to start for a guy that knows next to nothing about making the figures in his scenes move? or should i start someplace else.... maybe some place less complicated and/or intimidating?

    is there any really good 3D Animation software out there that's a bit more streamlined to animation? can i load my existing scenes and models from DAZ into this possibly mythical unicorn of a program?

    I'm sorry, this all seems a bit jumbled. let me rephrase the question.
    Is there a program out there that's good for N00Bs to start on, but is also good enough for the pros? You know, One that once I really get the hang of what I'm doing will allow me to make the hollywood level Epic/Complex animations I dream about making?

    Wow. Lots o' Q's!

    I guess the first thing to get folks riled up here is for me to answer the first question. "Is DAZ the best place to start...". The short answer is simple. No. Moving a camera along a path, dropping in a pre-made character, with a pre-made rig, and dropping a pre-animated mocap, then hitting the "Render" button is in NO WAY "animation". At least not from what it seems like you want to do. Sorry DAZ...

    If you are interested in pure animation...on a budget... you have two decent choices. If you want to stick to polygons, go with Blender. it has a wacky interface/hotkey-setup (but supposedly that will change this year), but it can and has been used for "feature quality" shorts.

    Blender: www.blender.org
    Blender Examples:
    *Sintel ( http://vimeo.com/59785024 )
    *Tears of Steel ( http://vimeo.com/60884787 )
    *Big Buck Bunny ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4gjl-uwUHc )

    As it is free, you can take that money that's burning a hole in you pocket and buy some tutorials, or get a membership at BlenderCookie (www.cgcookie.com/ ; https://cgcookie.com/blender/ for the specific Blender side) I *think* getting a membership at CGCookie gives you all the "Cookie" sites listed on the drop down from the main CGCookie site.

    Now...if you are primarily interested in 'just' animation...and don't care about conversion to/from polygons... Hash Animation:Master is an absolutely fantastic character animation program. That said...it's renderer is slow (I find), and it doesn't use polygons. It uses something it calls "Hash Patches". It has a yearly subscription price of something like $80, or you can outright buy one "version" (for $300). I suggest going with the subscription first; it's a year, which is more than enough time to see if you feel comfortable in it.

    Animation Master: http://www.hash.com/home-1-en (PS: There is a Trial version....)
    Direct to buying it...: http://www.hash.com/store/
    Examples: Well, there are quite a lot of examples....some totally suck, others are dang awesome! This software definitely lives up to the "It's the artist, not the tool" meme.
    HIGHLY SUGGESTED: Pick up Jeff Lew's "Learning 3D Character Animation" if you want some really good tips for Character animation.
    Warnings: Modeling in A:M, for me, is a PITA. I do not like 'patches', finding them slow to work with and hard to get really good results. However, there are quite a few good models, with rig, included or available on the net.

    Ok. Now that that is out of the way...

    If you want to break into "The Industry", you will at some point have to fork over the big bucks for one of the "major" 3d packages out there. Yes, I'm talking about 3DS Max, Maya, Modo, Houdini, Cinima4D or even Lightwave (I've owned all of them except for C4D & Modo). I would have added Softimage|XSI (yes, I own that too) in there, but Autodesk killed it (...grrrr....rage....rage building...Rage....Must CAlm DOWN.... ... >:( ). But for home learnin', Blender (first choice) or Animation:Master (second unless you just want to be an animator...then EASILY first...).

    Right... next up...

    You will need to learn the basic principles of animation. You will start off at the ground level; typically this is animating a ball rolling from one side to the other (actual 'rolling'; not just 'sliding/moving'). Then you move onto making that ball bounce. Then you can move onto squash n' stretch. You learn about weight and timing. You learn about moving holds, anticipation, follow through, ease-in and ease-out, and a bunch of other basics. You practice. Alot. No, more than that...I mean ALOT. No, even *more* than that. Keep going.... keep going... a bit more... ok, there. Now that you've practiced animating a bouncing ball and maybe a sack of flour for 12 hours a day for the last month.... *now* you can move onto the more 'fancy' stuff. Like a basic walk cycle. More practice (just reread the above, substituting 'basic character rig' for 'ball or flour sack'). :)

    Short version: learning to animate well takes a MASSIVE amount of time. But, once you start to master it, animating "by hand" will easily outclass mocap drag-and-drop every time. You know when you look at a mocapped "animation" of Victoria? You know how it looks ok, but just "kinda off"? That's because mocap is just the mechanical movements. It doesn't do timing, squash n' stretch, secondary action, anticipation, and all the other things animators do to make something "come alive".

    If you are serious about this though, nothing beats professional training. Either forking over $40k for a multi-year, hard-core schooling at Sheridan Collage (4-year), Vancouver Film School (intensive; 12-month; overpriced... yes, I went there), or DAVE School (12-month intensive). Yeah, as I said...expensive.

    A *slightly* less expensive route; online at GNOMON or Animation Mentor. At Gnomon you can either do it on-campus (e.g., at the actual building), or you can do it on-line. At Animation Mentor it's all on-line only; but I consistently see amazing results from their students (just do a search on vimeo or youtube for "Animation Mentor Student" or somesuch). I believe that both focus on Maya...actually, I think Animation Mentor *only* uses Maya. But it's accredited ( I think), so you can get a 3-year student licence to the Autodesk "suite" (includes Maya, 3DS MAX, Mudbox, etc). So that's cool.

    Gnomon: http://www.gnomonschool.com
    Animation Mentor: http://www.animationmentor.com/

    Ok. Phew. Now, in addition to all that... books and online tutorials can really help with everything. A lot of quality stuff is out there, free, you just have to look for it. Expect to be disappointed sometime (my pet peeve...people doing video tutorials with absolutely *horrible* sound....like they are using some $20 mic and don't even attempt to clean it up when putting the video together). But there are some gems out there. You just have to keep looking. :)

    Excellent, "must have" animators books:
    *Disney's The Illusion of Life
    *The Animators Survival Kit
    *Stop Staring: Facial Modeling and Animation Done Right

    ...hmmm... Yup. I think that about covers it. Sorry for the length, but you asked! :)

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    pming said:

    Midyin said:
    ... Is there a program out there that's good for N00Bs to start on, but is also good enough for the pros? You know, One that once I really get the hang of what I'm doing will allow me to make the hollywood level Epic/Complex animations I dream about making?

    ... Moving a camera along a path, dropping in a pre-made character, with a pre-made rig, and dropping a pre-animated mocap, then hitting the "Render" button is in NO WAY "animation". At least not from what it seems like you want to do. ...

    I have no argument with your advice, since the OP asked for a program "good enough for the pros". OTOH, what you describe, dropping a pre-made character, with pre-made rig, etc., is what I enjoy doing. It's not "Animation", but maybe "animation", or just using a simple 3D animation approach to create short videos that tell a story. And not have to deal with real people, real sets, real cameras ... all of which can be PITA's. I gave my approach and a couple of examples in a post above ... no modelling, no rigging, no "squash and stretch" or the other "Disney Dozen" elements, all of which I greatly admire (Pixar!) but have no desire to do. In my case, its more like being the (wannabe) producer/director/writer than the animator, and I enjoy the process.

    But again, FWIW from an amateur, I think your advice is sound for those with "pro animator" aspirations.

  • pmingpming Posts: 44
    edited December 1969

    Hiya!

    Steve K said:

    I have no argument with your advice, since the OP asked for a program "good enough for the pros". OTOH, what you describe, dropping a pre-made character, with pre-made rig, etc., is what I enjoy doing. It's not "Animation", but maybe "animation", or just using a simple 3D animation approach to create short videos that tell a story. And not have to deal with real people, real sets, real cameras ... all of which can be PITA's. I gave my approach and a couple of examples in a post above ... no modelling, no rigging, no "squash and stretch" or the other "Disney Dozen" elements, all of which I greatly admire (Pixar!) but have no desire to do. In my case, its more like being the (wannabe) producer/director/writer than the animator, and I enjoy the process.

    But again, FWIW from an amateur, I think your advice is sound for those with "pro animator" aspirations.

    Oh, I totally get where you (and many other DAZ'ites (?) are coming from. I've also done that "just for fun" a few times. I think using all the 'prebuilt' stuff is almost perfect for quick pre-viz. I also see the use for things where the characters are not the focus of the shot/animation. For example, a camera fly around of a building for architectural reasons. Toss in a few low-rez Gen2 or pozer figures with generic mocap walk cycles; put those guys on paths; hit render. The result would be more than just a "dead" building fly around. It would give some movement and life to the scene.

    But for all those who only use the prebuilt stuff and never delve into "personal modification" (at a low level, not the high level 'pose slider'; I'm talking about actually hand-tweaking keyframes and motion graphs)...I think they are missing out on some of the coolest stuff you can do. Create something that is truly their own. The feeling of accomplishment when you render even a two or three second animation is pretty amazing, really. I think it's that short euphoria (for lack of a better word) that keeps most animators from going completely bonkers after working 12 to 16 hours a day, every day, for weeks. ;)

    No matter your preferred level of "animation drive", I must admit...3d is definitely addicting! :D


    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming

  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 1,855
    edited February 2015

    pming said:
    Hiya!

    ... that short euphoria (for lack of a better word) that keeps most animators from going completely bonkers after working 12 to 16 hours a day, every day, for weeks. ;)

    No matter your preferred level of "animation drive", I must admit...3d is definitely addicting! :D

    ^_^

    Paul L. Ming

    We have no disagreement, just a different interest. I actually have tried modelling, and realized it is way too complex/tedious for my limited attention span. (I've had the same experience with real world models like rigged sailing ships ... I have to get my talented craft-oriented wife to build them.) Plus there are a LOT of very high quality characters/models/scenes available at DAZ and many other websites for very affordable prices (in the range of $10 - $20 on sale). The names are familiar: Stonemason, Faveral, The Ant Farm, Howie Farkes, Dreamland Models, London224, and many more. If I started today on *one* of those ~$10 - $20 items, I estimate the cost and time to be ... lessee ... I would never finish. ;-P

    So *for me*, building everything from scratch is just not realistic. But using "store bought" items, I can get a short animation done in a week or two that is way short of "pro" level, but that I find very satisfying. Then start on the next one ... :coolsmile:

    "I’m talking about actually hand-tweaking keyframes and motion graphs". We do agree on this, that's one of the parts that I really enjoy.

    Agreed it is very addictive, I find myself losing track of time some nights. :wow:

    Post edited by Steve K on
  • LeslieSOsborneLeslieSOsborne Posts: 54
    edited February 2015

    Question: Be honest, is Daz the best for animation?

    Instead of asking "is Daz the best for animation" considering asking and positioning yourself along the lines of "is Daz best for the animation that I want to do right now". Then you can look at both the software (Daz Studio, Carrara, models, textures, etc) and the community to see if you get the support you need for the projects you want to do. Sometimes community support (forums, plugins, tutorials, etc.) can be just as important as the software itself.

    If you can; find a specific story or project you want to do and ask "is Daz (Daz Studio/ Carrara) best for this story or project?" or "how can I make this story work using Daz (Daz Studio/ Carrara)?" Taking an open ended project approach helps you find the tools that you need.

    Rarely is a movie, animated or not, one media. There may be matte paintings, audio files, visual effects (lightning, color correction, slo mo/fast mo etc.) background music and a lot of things that determine what is right for your project. Then, when you decide on a project you can decide how much time you want to spend in Daz (Daz Studio/Carrara) to get the look that you want.

    Mocap added fantastical moments to Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings, King Kong, and The Hobbit movies. Animation goes beyond just adding mocap and you may find other settings within Daz (puppeteer or manual animation setting keyframes) more suitable for what you want to do.

    3DS Max, Cinema 4D, Lightwave, and Maya are great programs. It's important to keep in mind that users of those programs will sometimes rely heavily on Adobe After Effects for visual effects and other programs like Adobe Premiere Pro to complete the final projects. The advantage is, with these programs and Blender included, there is an easy found abundance of magazines (3D Artist, 3D World) and websites that support doing high level work through tutorials, etc. But, again, this is software specific and not project specific.

    As a Daz Studio user I have found definite advantages in comparison to working with Blender, Cinema 4D, or Maya. But again, my decisions tend to be project specific rather than 'software' specific. There are things I'll do in C4D that I won't think of for Daz. Some of that is software specific. Some of it is because of what a supporting community has to offer.

    At the time of this post I am not sure why Daz (Daz Studio/Carrara) isn't more commonly a major component to animations similar to *Sintel, *Tears of Steel or *Big Buck Bunny (<< done with Blender). Sometimes I wonder if, as a 'Daz Community', we pushed for and supported each other on better animations if we'd find the 'apparent' gap in final quality and community support (tutorials, magazine interest) a lot smaller than what many imagine.</p>

    Here are a couple animation samples that I've recently done using incorporating Daz.


    The Monkey (Time Travel Test Pilot Teaser Trailer)
    http://youtu.be/TWrqpNPn6dk

    TESTS: Flying Mosquito and Flup!
    http://youtu.be/w117rYOlgcM

    Post edited by LeslieSOsborne on
  • Fixme12Fixme12 Posts: 564
    edited December 1969

    Ivy said:

    there is only a few of things that limit daz from being a great animation program, the first is real time rendering., the second the lack of physic tools & dynamic controls, and lastly the lack of floor control to keep characters at to a certain level that you pre set..

    a huge problem we all like te be seen solved if you wanna do animations.
    specially better IK/FK fixed and realtime dynamics.

  • ToulaToula Posts: 8
    edited December 1969

    I think the best animation and easiest to use program is Iclone but it doesn't have the quality or the models of the DAZ so the best combination is the 3dxchange to import DAZ models and export as iavatar but it has some problems too, as some friend mention you have to import bold models separate with the hair.

    I have a question too, is there anyway in Daz animation to undone a move without mess up the hole animation project ?

  • Wendy_CarraraWendy_Carrara Posts: 19,863
    edited December 1969

    Iclone still my quickest choice but Carrara with Octane render is looking very pro I must say!!!

  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,375
    edited December 1969

    It's hard to judge what context you are defining 'best' under. Best meaning easiest to use? Best meaning absolutely most features and Hollywood-film level of rendering and effects, regardless of price? Best meaning 'what can I get that will give the best animation possible and still remain at a hobbyist/affordable price level'?

    I'm going to assume that because we're in the Daz forums and the OP mentions using Studio already that you aren't looking to spend unlimited amounts of money on software (I apologize if money is no object). So I'll exclude all the high-pricetag softwares that are out there from the list. Since it was mentioned you would prefer to be able to work with Daz content natively, that crosses almost all of them off the list anyway, except perhaps Cinema4D with an Interposer pro plugin.

    Actually 'use of daz content natively' really crosses almost everything off the list except for Poser, Studio, Carrara, Iclone, and (if you're willing to stretch the amount you're willing to spend) possibly Vue. Maybe there's an app I'm forgetting about though...

    From what I've heard, Iclone is very easy to use for animation, and a lot of people like it. It also has a plugin for a limited version of Indigo Render, which means it has access to an excellent renderer (though the plugin is extra, it's not a huge huge pricetag extra). The sticking point for Iclone might be the cost of the 3Dxchange pipeline to use daz figures natively. Costs can mount up quite a bit if you were to buy the base program, the 3dxchange add on, the Indigo renderer add on, as well as the hair and outfit add ons (Iclone does have pseudo dynamic physics with hair and clothing, but at a glance it's not tremendously realistic, looks about the same as what you could achieve with keyframing morphs on props and conforming clothing. Still if you don't have to keyframe to get a slight dynamic effect, that's still an improvement.) At the same time, it also looks like Iclone has a solid future, and that may be important for you in 'planning ahead'. Even if Iclone isn't up to what you're seeking right now, it does look very likely that there will be an Iclone 7 and and Iclone 8 in the future, and so future versions might be even better and give you the results you're looking for. I myself have considered Iclone but don't really need it. Other users of Iclone have described it as very easy to use and intuitive in animating, however also very limited too. That might change in the future, and someone like Wendy (above post) who actually has and uses Iclone can clarify what the limitations are (or even if I'm just plain out wrong :) )

    Studio and Poser... well you know what you've got there already, I'm betting, since you use Studio now. Can be decently capable at animating, and it has the virtue that you are already familiar with it. Neither Poser nor Studio has dynamic hair that can react to scene forces and movements (well Poser has dynamic hair but as far as I know, no one has ever figured out how to use it to make it behave right, but I could be wrong, there could be someone who has 'broken the code' and unlocked the secret to making it useable). They both have dynamic cloth of a sort (Poser better, imo).

    Vue barely qualifies as part of the discussion, except that you can render animations in Vue in combination with Poser. So all the limitations of animating your characters in Poser apply in Vue, with the addition that I don't think you can import/render Poser dynamic hair in Vue (I may be wrong about this, maybe someone else who is in the know can correct me). If you don't already have Poser, you're looking at having to get Poser and Vue together to make this work, and depending on the add on plugins you get for Vue the pricetag can end up very high, but on the plus side you'll have one of the best landscape creation tools available.

    Carrara is my application of choice, though I have several others, and while I haven't been heavily into animating until very recently, I think feature wise it is likely to have the most animation tools available in any app less than $1000. I know I'll be mistaken for a Carrara fanboy and I'm not trying to be a used car salesman, but just being honest I think it is very worthy of consideration. In addition to a full suite of animation tools that I think are fully on the level of what you'd find in a pro-level high-priced app, it has multiple modelers internally, landscape creation, Tree and plant creation tools, Realistic skies and volumetric clouds, particles and particle physics, several different physics engines for soft and hardbody physics (invaluable for animation), the best and most realistic dynamic hair in the hobbyist price range (actually every bit as good as what you might see in a movie), and everything in it, from the sun and skies and clouds and trees and fog and fire and hair and even textures and anything else is *all* animatable. It uses daz and poser content natively, no need to use any other program and then import.

    It has a very realistic biased renderer internal to it, but also has access to render in Octane via the Octane for Carrara plugin, or in Lux via the Luxus plugin. The Octane plugin is expensive, but the actual Carrara 8pro is very low priced right now ($65, which frankly is insane, especially since it comes with the V5 pro and M5 pro bundles included for free). Luxus is very modestly priced as a plugin, and its creator, SphericLabs is actually doing a free beta test of the LuxCore plugin for Carrara, which isn't as fast as Octane, but still very very fast and gives excellent render results.

    Anyway, hope extra info is useful, not trying to sway anyone or sell anyone anything. I think if it were me, and I knew nothing about the various software options, I would likely choose either to stick with Studio (since the OP knows it already) accepting and trying to work around it's limitations, or go with Iclone (which seems like a solid up and comer and has a good reputation for ease of use in animating) or choose Carrara. (Actually I'd probably choose Carrara regardless, just to get all the extra Genesis content which can be used in whatever I settle on). I don't want to misinform at all, so I'm hoping if there's something I've forgotten about that someone else will fill in those blanks.

    In the 'picture is worth 1000 words' category, I'll just show this tiny animation I did the other day while testing dynamic cloth in Carrara. The cloth simulation for this was very fast, less than 30 seconds or so, and the hair simulation was also very fast. The render settings are very low since this was a test, but the render time was also extremely fast. I don't know of another software in the hobbyist range that can do this, so it may be of interest even if it's just a quick rough test.

    cloth_skirt_hair_idle.gif
    200 x 300 - 2M
  • kdwyermediakdwyermedia Posts: 26
    edited December 1969

    Daz3d is a 3d animation program. I only just started using it as opposed to Poser but it seems fine. How to set up a camera and lights is easier in Daz I think. As a method I export png files and compile my videos in Premiere Elements. Understanding that all film is animation should help, so you a have to get in there frame by frame. Take a look at something like Blood The Last Vampire or Ghost in the Shell original manga movies because that's where the bar is for animation. Kd.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/kdwyermedia

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,905
    edited December 1969

    Daz3d is a 3d animation program. I only just started using it as opposed to Poser but it seems fine. How to set up a camera and lights is easier in Daz I think. As a method I export png files and compile my videos in Premiere Elements. Understanding that all film is animation should help, so you a have to get in there frame by frame. Take a look at something like Blood The Last Vampire or Ghost in the Shell original manga movies because that's where the bar is for animation. Kd.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/kdwyermedia

    DAZ3D is a company which has three programs of animation: Studio + Carrara + Bryce.
    To compare DS (Studio) with Poser is not very realistic, it is as if you compared a bicycle with a Harley-Davidson…
    DS is easy for people who don't know anything in animation and can arrive at results thanks to the aniblocks (one always sees the same movements in all the animations posted on Youtube).
    I know that Bryce make some really good job (I don't use it), but to make a work really pro, it is Poser and Carrara, DS was created to use the DAZ contents, not to create something by yourself...

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,299
    edited December 1969

    If you're going to use DAZ content, Studio is probably the best way to go. But you will have to get Keymate and Graphmate (besides aniMate) to really use it to its potential. If you use mocap files, you will probably have to make adjustments and add to motions (finger motions, eye blinks, head turns, etc.). They are more useful if you are doing realistic human animations. If you are doing cartoon animations, you will have to practice all the traditional animation techniques. But you will need Keymate and Graphmate to do it properly..

    If you are creating your own content you can do animation with project: messiah, Maya, and the rest with varying degrees of success.

    There are ways to optimize DAZ Studio, but you have to buy tutes, or watch free YouTube tutes to learn those methods. There are ways to light scenes, optimize graphics, etc. that will help speed your renders. You have to plan above all else!

  • ScarecrowScarecrow Posts: 143
    edited February 2015

    If you want to animate I would go for Carrara, with a platinum club membership it's only $65. Daz studio's animation tools are very limited, I wouldn't waste my time or money there. Iclone is such a pain in the ass I won't use it. It took me two weeks and I had to write to tech-support three times just to get all the correct software installed. You need to have the same version of I clone and 3-D exchange installed for it to work right. I clone 5 needs 3-D exchange five and Iclone6 needs 3-D exchange six etc.
    here's a short list of things included in Carrara that Daz Studio either needs an extra plugin for or just doesn't have at all.
    Fully functioning keyframe and Graph editor
    Motion Paths
    Physics, including soft body dynamics for clothing
    Dynamic hair shaders (create hair, fur, grass etc.)
    Modeling (this includes a plant modeler, you can create pretty much any kind of tree)
    Particle system
    Lens Flares and light cones
    Terrain editor and Carrara realistic skies
    The basic camera has 4 options: wide angle, normal, telephoto, or zoom.
    And there's many more...
    I spent the better part of a year trying to animate in Daz studio, and I found myself moving backwards most of the time. I was also intimidated about moving up to a pro level program and really wanted to make daz studio work for what I wanted to do, so I got all the plug-ins and all the stuff, And eventually realized it just doesn't have enough capabilities. So I moved up to Carrara, it's great and I wish I had done it sooner

    Post edited by Scarecrow on
  • Steve KSteve K Posts: 1,855
    edited December 1969

    If you want to animate I would go for Carrara, with a platinum club membership it's only $65. ... So I moved up to Carrara, it's great and I wish I had done it sooner

    I could not agree more. I have Lightwave and Vue Complete, both good programs but a little intimidating. I used to use Poser heavily but discovered Carrara could do everything Poser can and much more. I tried an early version of Daz Studio and just got frustrated.

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