Do I want Poser or DAZ Studio, and what figure?

jasonkjasonk Posts: 42
edited January 2015 in Poser Discussion

I'm trying to decide which program(s) to use, and what figure(s) to use.

I own Poser 10 and I downloaded DAZ Studio, and I've looked at both a tiny bit. I am a 2D artist. I need to use Poser and/or DS to create static renders that I use as references for my hand-drawn art. I want a only slightly-idealized realistic figure (not some super-leggy out-of-proportion fantasy sex goddess), whose body I can alter (height/weight/muscularity/skin tone/etc), have long flowing hair, some clothing, be able to setup lighting, and get a decent render. My render standards aren't too high since the render isn't the "final product". Though I suppose the more interesting or realistic the render, the more it might inspire in my drawing. For now I just need women, but later men too. For a good figure, I don't care if there are not many clothing options for the figure. I have other ideas on how to deal with that if I have to.

I would prefer to use 1 product rather than 2. I'm not super-price-sensitive. Though I don't want to waste money, or spend a lot on features I won't need. I'm certainly fine with using free content and programs, though I'd prefer to spend some money if it will save me time and pain.

I do need the figure to look good, since it's a reference model. Since the 3D render is only an intermediate step in my artistic process, it is worth it to me to spend money to give me quick-click fixes to save me time. For instance, if I went with DS & Genesis 2 figures, I would be considering easy realism add-ons like http://www.daz3d.com/ultimate-natural-for-victoria-6-body, http://www.daz3d.com/i13-squish-soft-body-effect-morphs, http://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-bends-for-genesis-2-female-s (or for V4 http://www.daz3d.com/beautiful-bends-v4, http://www.daz3d.com/ideal-beauty-for-genesis-2-and-v6, etc.

It seems a big choice is what figure? The free Hivewire Dawn/Dusk? Miki? Some purchased Poser figures (which are good?)? Genesis 2 figures? A weight-mapped V4? Realism, and saving time, matters a lot to me (though I don't mind if there's some one-time setup time required once per figure). Which is why Genesis 2 + time-saving DS add-ons like "Ultimate Natural" caught my eye.

And then the question is work-flow. Like if it's a Daz-centric figure (Genesis 2 female?), given that I hear DSON isn't so good, do I need to use DS to get best results? If it's a Poser-centric figure, I'm wondering how much I'm going to miss those DS add-ons linked above that help you get a better, more realistic look, because I'm guessing those add-ons may not function so well in Poser.

Any thoughts?

Post edited by jasonk on

Comments

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,591
    edited January 2015

    Hopefully I can answer this without getting Mod-smacked for app warring. It's a sensitive topic. Since that is the case, I will reveal first that I'm a DAZ Published Artist, I started out with Poser and then switched to using DS exclusively after genesis 1 came out, and I'm very prejudiced in DS's favor.

    So:

    If you seriously want to use Genesis 2 Female, it is best to start with DAZ Studio. DSON is laggy on most systems. G2F and G2M are DS-native figures, as Genesis 1 was, and use of them in Poser is essentially a workaround; the main reason to do that is if you are inherently very committed to Poser. Genesis 2 is the latest figure generation, and natively uses weight mapping. That is the extent to which I can safely comment on that.

    If you want to use Poser-native figures, I have no solid information, but in general people are more likely to use Victoria 4, weight-mapped or not, because of the sheer amount of content for her. From the number of V4 releases vs. the number of Dawn releases at Renderosity, I'm sure this is still the case.

    Both Poser and DAZ Studio have export to unbiased engines available (Luxrender and Octane), and your understanding of lighting and skin shaders for those engines will matter more than your master of Poser OR DAZ Studio if that is the direction you end up going. Octane export plugins are much more costly than the Reality series for Luxrender in either case.

    I will be happy to expand on this via PM if you like, here or on deviantart (same screen name).

    Post edited by SickleYield on
  • jasonkjasonk Posts: 42
    edited December 1969

    Hopefully I can answer this without getting Mod-smacked for app warring.

    I was figuring since it was a Poser forum at DAZ, it would be ok to talk about both programs.

    >"If you seriously want to use Genesis 2 Female"

    Heh, I don't know if I do or if I don't :P If I can get equally good results with DS and a G2F as I can with Poser and some figure (G2F, Dawn, etc), then I might try both apps, decide which one feels better to me.

    But if some figure is going to be hands-down better results and requiring less time to get them, then that's the direction I want to go. Like if Ultimate Natural + G2F gives faster (less time tweaking) & better results than Dawn in Poser, then I want to head towards G2F. If G2F is NOT too laggy on my system, then maybe I use Poser or DS, whichever I like better. If it's laggy, then I go DS.

    Is lag the only issue? Or is there actual functionality that is compromised?

    >Genesis 2 is the latest figure generation, and natively uses weight mapping. That is the extent to which I can safely comment on that.

    Is there more I should know that you won't say here? If so I'll post to your DeviantArt journal.

    >people are more likely to use Victoria 4, weight-mapped or not, because of the sheer amount of content for her.

    I'm willing to pick a good figure regardless of the amount of clothing content available for it. My men & women are mostly going to be scantily-clad, and since I'm using them as reference for hand-drawing, I'd be fine to use an optimal nearly-nude model to get the body right, then use a different model with more clothing options just to get an idea of how the clothing should look.

  • SickleYieldSickleYield Posts: 7,591
    edited December 1969

    Yes, please ask on my deviantart via note.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 34,187
    edited December 1969

    The main choice for me comes down to whether I want to use dynamic cloth and physics or not.
    DAZ you are limited to Optitex items.
    Poser can do hybrid on rigged clothing as well a prop dynamic cloth and I just got P10 and used hybrid dynamics successfully on G2F DSON loaded which I did not expect to work so well as usually the triax stuff does not. My PP12 never does well so it obviously was improved on, was not prepared to buy PP14 as not used enough, I use Carrara.
    V4 works very easily with hybrid cloth.
    It is a very handy tool for realistic draping which you may need for drawing.

  • jasonkjasonk Posts: 42
    edited December 1969

    The main choice for me comes down to whether I want to use dynamic cloth and physics or not.

    My highest priority is how the figure looks without clothes (& whether good results are achieved easier/faster one way vs another). I can solve clothing in other ways. For instance, if you say a G2 figure with add-ons is best, and *IF* that only works well in DS, I'm fine to pose and render that in DS. And then, for clothing, I could for instance use Dawn or whoever with free or paid clothes in Poser, render that, and use both those reference renders in making my 2D hand-painting.

    Do you have an opinion on best figures when clothing is not an issue?

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 34,187
    edited December 1969

    well whatever app DAZ figures win hands down the native Poser ones are Fugly
    G2F and G2M are best in DAZ studio V4 and M4 in Poser which app you prefer is up to you, I do not have a preference as I use Carrara mostly.

  • DoricDoric Posts: 80
    edited December 1969

    well whatever app DAZ figures win hands down the native Poser ones are Fugly
    G2F and G2M are best in DAZ studio V4 and M4 in Poser which app you prefer is up to you, I do not have a preference as I use Carrara mostly.

    None of the daz figures will bend with Roxie.
    The legitimate G2Female is Alyson. Far different from Genesis.
    And Roxie ain't ugly, V4 is.
    Alyson is ugly until you start spinning dials and the ones you need are all there, without buying an extra morph pack.
  • jasonkjasonk Posts: 42
    edited December 1969

    Doric said:
    None of the daz figures will bend with Roxie.

    I'm confused with what you mean by that sentence. Can you re-state?

    Thanks for the Alyson suggestion.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,564
    edited December 1969

    You asked a question that can be likened to poking an anthill... :)

    Poser was originally developed as an artist's model tool, and includes a wide selection of human figures, skeletons and of course Andy the Mannequin. Since you own Poser, I'd try them out and see if they meet your needs. If not, you know where to get some others... :)

  • jasonkjasonk Posts: 42
    edited January 2015

    WandW said:
    You asked a question that can be likened to poking an anthill... :)

    The ants should take a Valium :P

    >Poser was originally developed as an artist's model tool, and includes a wide selection of human figures, skeletons and of course Andy the Mannequin.

    None of them sound particularly realistic, high-quality, nor popular. I was hoping to get an education about add-on figures, so that my "learning time" might hopefully be spent on the program that I will eventually need/use. i.e.--if I go with Genesis 2, then it's not too productive for me to learn Poser first. If I go with Dawn, I can use any program I like.

    Between this forum and others, I am getting an education about figures. So far Genesis 2, Dawn, and Miki are all sounding like possible good candidates.

    Post edited by jasonk on
  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,567
    edited December 1969

    Here are some animations with roxie and V6 to show their bending and if they can be useful to your for references:

    Roxie in rendered Poser Pro 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9wpq1NSaTA

    Victoria 6 rendered in DAZ3D and 3delight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq5_YcYR8VM

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,564
    edited December 1969

    jasonk said:

    None of them sound particularly realistic, high-quality, nor popular. I was hoping to get an education about add-on figures, so that my "learning time" might hopefully be spent on the program that I will eventually need/use. i.e.--if I go with Genesis 2, then it's not too productive for me to learn Poser first. If I go with Dawn, I can use any program I like.

    "Sound" isn't relavant to a visual art, nor does popularity have anything to do with your own works. Try them and see if they meet your needs.

    I will say that since you have Poser 10, EZSkin will improve the render of any figure in Poser...

    http://snarlygribbly.org/3d/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=134

  • jasonkjasonk Posts: 42
    edited December 1969

    WandW said:
    "Sound" isn't relavant to a visual art, nor does popularity have anything to do with your own works.

    LOL, "sound" as in, when I read comments & reviews about them, they don't sound too awesome...hence the demand for add-on figures. Popularity only matters to me in 2 ways...how many clothes are made for them (not that I need many, and if I must, I have work-arounds if the clothes I want aren't available), and, I'm guessing better looking figures are the ones that garner more popularity.

    Thanks for the EZSkin tip.

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 6,105
    edited December 1969

    Every character figure from Dawn, to Victoria 3,4,5,6, to Michael 3,4,5,6, which overlap of course with Genesis 1 and 2F and 2M and every one of the character morphs available here at DAZ, work flawlessly in DAZ Studio.

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,564
    edited January 2015

    jasonk said:

    LOL, "sound" as in, when I read comments & reviews about them, they don't sound too awesome...hence the demand for add-on figures.

    This is the included G2 Sydney (NOT GENESIS 2!! Some have misappropriated the G2 designation) tweaked bit, with a facemorph and texture, and EZ-skin. EDIT; the hair is not from DAZ, as I originally posted but is the hair from the SM Miki 2 figure, another of the G2 (not Genesis 2) figures)...

    SydWmA2acarwrist_fixedcrop.jpg
    903 x 840 - 53K
    Post edited by WandW on
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 34,187
    edited December 1969

    she needs a sandwich

  • WandWWandW Posts: 2,564
    edited December 1969

    Then she'd dent the hood... :lol:

  • Dawn is my favorite, as she works in both DAZ Studio AND Poser. She doesn't have as much add on content as V4, but she is natively weightmapped and optmized for both programs. And with CrossDresser or AutoFit, who cares what figure an outfit is meant for? You can just convert it. I do like Poser's Dynamics. If you are going to be using this for painting reference and cloth will be used, I would definitely go with Poser for the dynamic cloth. Conforming clothes don't tend to come across as very realistic. DS dynamic clothing is rather limited, and there's no way to create it on your own.

    Poser also has native dynamic hair, if that is of concern. Studio has plugins (Look At My Hair being the most popular) for the same. 

    As far as nudes go, it's six of one half a dozen of the other. If you're unsure as to which program you will prefer, stick with the figures that will work in either. V4 will work in either, with lots of addon content, Dawn will work in either with more modern features.

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,770

    My best advice since you already own Poser 10 (that's the same version I have), is to play with something that works in both and see what you prefer, what suits your style, etc. I've been playing with v4 and m4 in both programs. Some of my figures look better in one program than another. I'm not sure why, but I'm new to all of this. For most things, I use DAZ, but I have some custom morphed Michael 4 characters that look way better in Poser no matter what I do. 

  • Since you've already got Poser and admittedly do more hand-drawn work, using Poser as an idea generator, I'd say stick with that. Both programs have pros and cons, and if you get too bogged down in all the figure and accessory options, your time spent on hand-drawn work is going to be cut very short, or you're not going to learn all you need to know about either the new figures or a different software product.

    As well, if you start amassing a library of hair and clothes and figures, then you're going to end up drawing those as they appear on the screen, rather than your art and your ideas. Poser and Studio are nice tools, but they can be crutches as well.

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,326
    Here are my thoughts (I use DAZ Studio) reguarding a figure: Genesis 2 is very versital, looks great in poses, has asymmetrical morphing in face and body for realism, can use Genesis textures, and with converters, can use V4/M4 Textures as well. There are ethnic characters, but if you become adept at dial spinning, you can pretty much create any face and body you want with just Michael and Victoria 6, then texture them with any skin and eyes that are comparable. Don't worry about hair or clothes if you are going to draw your own. Genesis 3 adds some more realism to posing and expression, but is not comparable with any other generation's textures. Genesis 1 can use either male/ female items and those items can adjust easily to creature morphs. Creature Creator looks best with G2. G1 has a baby, but only has a diaper. I tried V4/M4 but wasn't happy with the results, except for the skeletons. Look at the pose converters and you can see examples of the different figures side by side in the same poses - that's a good way to compare.
  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,326

    Now that I am home and not typing on my phone, I'll add a little more.

    As I said before with dial spinning, once you develop a talent, you really only need the base characters: Michael and Victoria, plus the morph packages for each.  If you want the greatest versatility, get both Genesis 1 (M5/V5) and Genesis 2 (M6/V6). 

    Genesis 1: can use V4/M4 textures and eyes.  Needs a converter to use G2 textures.

    Genesis 2: can use Genesis 1 textures but not eyes.  Needs a converter to use V4/M4 textures.

    Both G1/G2 have growing up morphs (to create adult to age 5) and aging morphs.

    These pictures are some examples of characters I have created, each one morphed from the original base. 

    Character Morphs 1.jpg
    786 x 685 - 106K
    Character Morphs 3.jpg
    628 x 649 - 69K
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