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Greg, what morph package caused your very long load times? I'm sure other people might want to experiment with removing just that one.
I don't get it. SSD's and HDD's read data on the order of HUNDREDS of MEGABYTES per second. I recall an SSD is like 0.5 GIGABYTES per second. So a 30 minute load means it's loading something like 500 GB of data !!! Or else the DAZ Studio loading mechanism (software) is taking ages to process the data.
How much data is there in a G8 character with a bunch of morphs?? And why does it matter if you have 300 characters?? You're only loading one, right??
I don't get it. I'll stick with my G3's.
My C drive, where DS and Base Figures are installed, is an SSD.
G3F loads in 30 seconds, but I only have 250 characters installed.
It isn't just loadign the data, it's also processing it - the actual reading is a minor part of the process.
Have my library on a 2 TB external SSD. So hardware is not the limiting factor. After I had load times around the 10 minutes mark I started a regular process of uninstalling or at least moving files back and forth from my main library.
Currently: 44 seconds
This is with quite some characters (Vicky 7, 8, Charlotte 8, Aiko 8, Freja 8, Girl 7, 8), some figures from Jessai/Silver, Vicey3D, Addy, 3D Universe, Crocodile Liu, EichhornArt, Maddelirium, Maelwenn, Mousso, Rarestone, RawArt, Rhiannon, Sangriart, SASE (quite a lot) plus Morph Packs from Zev0, Soto, Dogz, Meipe and a lot of dress related morphs installed.
After just temporarily moving all subfolders but DAZ 3D from the Genesis 8/Female/Morphs folder to a different location: 6 seconds
After even moving the DAZ figures: 5 seconds
So yeah, having an eye on the data/Genesis 8/Female/Morphs folder (and the other main figure folders if you use them and have lots of characters/morphs) pays out. For the above mentioned I just moved those morph folders from me SSD-library to a spare one on the same drive. 2 GB of files but 1 second as the finder does not move files but only change references.
I still do not bother to optimize as long as I am < 1 minute. Once over I know it is time for some library optimization. Then as file moving is quicker than uninstalling via DIM I tend to keep figures I like available but uninstall all characters I won't use often.
Still wondering why DAZ is not adressing this as a top priority. DAZ wants people to buy characters. But the more you buy the more sluggish studio becomes. Connect is some way to adress this. But I don't like Connect very much. So if I have moved some morphs away and I load up a scene with characters/morphs currently not installed I rather refer to DIM or manually move back once I get the first error message during loading. Doing so does prevent the second error message from showing and loads the scene fine.
What I hate even more is the long time studio needs for closing a scene. Tend to force quit studio to avoid this.
Is that processing done in system RAM?
From a programming standpoint, the data is pulled from the HDD or SSD into system RAM, and the DAZ Studio software works on it from there. However, it's probably a very "serial" process, which means you can't do a lot of tasks simultaneously (in "parallel"), you have to do them one-by-one. And that takes a lot of time.
I'm guessing each character is comprised of millions of vertices, and each morph changes each of the corresponding vertices, which means you're calculating millions and millions of vertices. And I suppose if you watch Windows 10 Task Manager as you're loading this stuff you'd see that not all CPU processing units are busy (I'm guessing), which means you can't do it in parallel.
So while RAM is fast, it's pretty much irrelevant to the process since DAZ Studio has to do tons of calculations internally, and I suppose that's limited by the software capabilities, not RAM speed.
Though it still seems awfully strange it can take 30 minutes for a character.
This is an interesting pool of info! Thought I also just saw Zev0 mention working on something involving improving the way all morphs have always been linked or whatever, even when not needed. Man would that make a lot of people happy...
I have between 80-100 G8F Characters installed (many more than that not installed for these very reasons) and 40-50 separate Morph packs installed.
Daz 4.15
Win 10 x64, Meager and old i7-6700 @ 3.4 GHz, 16 GB RAM, all SSD Drives (System/Content separately)
32 Seconds
5 seconds for base gen8 female I have about 40 characters nearly all G8 and the HD morphs some expressions and I am using an external USB HDD. My PC is a 2012 dell vostro I7.
I have a couple hundred G8F figures and morph packs. I use the latest Daz Studio.
58 seconds for default G8F.
46 seconds for Rory HD.
I might be worth looking at your log files if extended loading times are a problem.
It really is interesting to see all of these wildly different numbers. I tested loading ALL of the Genesis base models.
I just recently built a new PC, and the load times have drastically improved. I believe it is the result of several different things. I have a Ryzen 5800X now, and I placed all of my Daz content on a single SSD, while before I had it split across a SSD and HDD due to space limitations. My Daz apps are installed in different places, but my main one for now is on a different SSD from the asset library.
Daz 4.15
G8F 36 seconds
G8M This was strange. I had one test where G8M took 55 seconds to load. Then after closing Daz and starting over, he took 4 seconds. Then he took 7. Weird.
G3F 20 seconds
G3M 28 seconds
G2F 7 seconds
G2M 8 seconds
Genesis 1 4 seconds!
G8.1 F 46 seconds
G8.1 M 58 seconds, but again I had weirdness. Another instance he loaded in just 7 seconds.
My times with the old i5 set up were probably twice as long for each case. I remember loosely timing G8 loading before and it often took around a minute give or take a few seconds. So the new setup absolutely works well, and I didn't need to remove a bunch of morphs.
I have noticed my G2 characters load way faster than they used back in the day, and that was before building my new PC. There was a time when G2F was taking beyond a minute or two to load. Then at some point, maybe 4.12, I noticed G2F loaded faster. With the new build it loads even faster. But 8.1 takes a long time to load. In fact I avoided 8.1 in large part because the loading was getting out of hand. The new PC makes the loading more tolerable, but at least for me 8.1 takes a lot longer than 8.0 does. For males it doesn't seem to matter, sometimes. I am confused as to why G8M and G8.1M can vary so much in different instances. Certainly the first load does. Loading another G8M into a scene after the first is always much faster, like it only takes 4 seconds.
~3 seconds, with 60 G8F figures and a bunch of morph packs. Latest .13 beta.
I'm pretty sure it never touched the SSD - I rarely reboot and have a lot of unused RAM, so Windows keeps everything I use frequently in memory (caching might be the reason if your 2nd load is much faster than the first?),
This in itself might be the problem at hand for loading characters. But if it's just your generic G8F that wouldn't be an issue. And I'm still not convinced that system RAM doesn't play a part in load times.
When I went from 32 to 48 GB RAM, I didn't really notice a difference. Then again, I didn't think to test it either, so that don't mean a whole lot lol.
5 minutes exactly, with 712 G8F characters and a lot of morph packages installed, DS 4.15. Hardware 10+ years old - first gen Core 2 Quad 6600, DDR2 RAM and only HDDs. An i5-4690 CPU is over 4 times faster, so you have to take CPU speed into account too.
Perhaps his issue is most evident between more disparate RAM capacity, like between 8GB and 24GB. But I may be completely wrong... wouldn't be the first time.
As long as there's enough free RAM available to complete the process it shouldn't matter how much you have, but otherwise it may start swapping to disk (virtual memory) which can slow things down considerably, depending on disk type.
When there is little free RAM left Windows memory management may also move currently used data from RAM into virtual memory if it isn't being accessed for a period of time, in order to free up RAM for other more active processes, which means that there may be a (in some cases very long, like a minute or more) delay while it moves those data back to RAM if you start accessing them again.
Also, if data you load from a disk are still cached in disk memory from earlier use they'll load a lot faster than normal (mostly on HDDs).
So when doing such tests you must take such things into consideration, and create a script specifically designed for the purpose, to get reliable results.
Two minutes, six seconds, base g8f. Win 8.1, 1070ti, i7-5820K cpu, ds 4.12, 307 characters and a whole mess of morphs.
5.2 Seconds for G8F. Loading from SSD using the latest beta, Win10, i9 9900K, 39 characters
Don't see it as a RAM issue. Have 64 GB on my MBP. If I would install all G8F figures I have I would for sure be way above 10 minutes although I could have loaded everything in RAM.
Characters: 391
Shaping Products: 41
G8F Load Time: 29 min/30 secs
I'm pretty sure my slow load time is due to DAZ Connect being my primary install method and Studio is scanning the contents of my DAZ Connect/Data/Cloud folder looking for G8F morphs in 16,433 product folders.
3 minutes 19 seconds. Thought it was longer than that. Always seems like forever.
Dont forget, it's about single-threaded performance, not overall CPU performance. So you can have a CPU that's 100 cores and it's 100 times faster, but it won't make a difference as loading a character is single-threaded. For faster load times on the hardware front, the key seems to be a CPU with strong single-thread performance. Fortunatly there are lots of good benchmarks for this.
It was a while back and I can't remember (my memory is garbage). I'll try to dig up an old post or something.
- Greg
Update:
21.4 seconds. seemed like an eternity. There are tons of errors prior to the load ... for all kinds of stuff ...
Computer 2020 with 4 SSD in RAID-0 mode, 128 GB RAM, Core i9 9900K and 2 RTX3070, Daz Studio 4.15
Computer 2009 with 4 SSD in RAID-0 mode, 12 GB RAM, Core 2 Extreme X9650 and GTX960, Daz Studio 4.10
Making comparisons is quite useless if the total number of morphfiles is not included. Someone with less that 100 "characters", small amount of other morphfiles and expressions can have the figure load in seconds, when someone having 1000+ "characters", a lot of morph files and a ton of expressions may expect loading times to be several minutes if not several tens of minutes.
The warnings and errors recorded in the logfile can make loading take considerably longer in both cases.
Which morph package? I own all of them. The problem is, I use all of them. I rarely use a character as is and do my own morphs. I also own a ton of characters so I can mix morphs. I still get that duplicate formula warning and Zilpha loads with every G8 character and tech support is aware of it and still won't fix it. I'm wondering if that's slowing things down.