Genesis 3 & 8 Face Controls
Sevrin
Posts: 6,301
in The Commons
The Genesis 3 & 8 Face Controls look interesting, but only shows one-click presets for expressions. Are there sliders for them for mixing, as well? It's an interesting product, but at this price and a PA with no track record, you kind of want to be sure what you're getting.
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It does come with dials! You apply the attachment to the character and then select it and look for FACS under Parameters. There's a video that comes with that shows moving the face with the palette on the screen, but I haven't figured that out yet.
Dials for the expressions or for the nodes? The palette functions like Powerpose, then?
It seems like it, yeah. The expressions are meant as a starter, I think, and also if you use this with the Dynamixyz mocap program part of the setup is loading the expressions in to use as a range of motion.
You apply the expression to the attachment, and then adjust.
Edit with some more detail: The range of motion is really wild, and it comes with example mocap animations. This is definitely meant for animators to do complex facial expressions. Which is way over my head and hardware capabilities, sadly, but I foresee myself using this a lot for customizing pose expressions.
Cool. Thank you.
I figured out how to move the face using the attachment--it's got selectable bones. :D Also this is really, really, really powerful. I'm trying not to freak out.
not sure how much it really adheres to the FACS system , it seems to lack a lot of expression lines (especially brow lines when frowning) and AFE looks a lot more impressive.
It's more squishy than AFE. I can't use the addon for that because I have dialed characters, but I use the PowerPose part a lot and I have to be a bit careful with it and keep it dialed low or it warps some of my more extreme characters' faces (it is a great product though). This is more meant for doing animation where the character needs to have realistic lip and face movement when they're talking, so the bones are independently moveable and you can get some pretty fine control.
Edit: They seem like they might work well together, actually. Here's a random expression from the animation example without and with AFE dialed in.
Yeah that dissapoints me too..."Please watch the included tutorial videos" would love when they add the video to the product, so we see what it does.
WOuld be great when someone can link a video, wanna see it in move/action :)
(and can someone pls fix these forum buttons? -.-)
I agree. The listing does state "Please watch the included tutorial videos" but IMO I think the seller would achieve more interest if this tutorial was available before purchase, to act as a kind of demo.
I mean it's not like they went overboard in the product description! Give us someething to whet our appetites! XD
I will admit this has piqued my interest, but what would probably have been an instabuy has become a 'shall I or shan't I' kind of affair for me.
They mention FACS on the info page - https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls
Is it something related to:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_Action_Coding_System
Can one make something similar to:
... and another example of FACS
Verry cool!
+1
WOuld be great when someone can link a video, wanna see it in move/action :)
Maybe these are "alternative FACS".
Ha!
I bought the product. There are two .mp4 tutorials included (find them in DIM under Installed Content via clicking the arrow next to the product and selecting "show installed files"). The PA's youtube channel is here (but I couldn't find the included .mp4 videos there): https://www.youtube.com/user/DynamixyzTeam/featured
Edit: one of the included .mp4's explains the process of using this product in the Studio/Maya pipeline. The other shows how to use it in Studio.
The PA Faux2D states it's intended to be a FACS system for G8 & G3 here:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5995057/#Comment_5995057
I can honestly not tell what this (pricey!) product is supposed to do.
I really wish they'd put the videos up on the product description, but it works very much like the videos @Artini linked above, with similar flexibility/range of motion. They include an an example animation timeline with speaking animations that are much closer to traditional animation than those shown in the Anilip example video, for instance, because the face can move so much. If you've ever paused a Pixar or DreamWorks movie and landed on a frame where the character looks like they've just seen Cthulhu even though the scene is just them talking normally, that's what you get if you scrub along the timeline this comes with.
It's useful to me for posing because my characters are semi-stylized and I'm interested in tweaking expressions to be more...well, expressive.
But it seems to really be intended for animators so they can either do really dynamic face motions or get realistic results from mocap data using Daz characters. I will never be able to afford to try the program this is integrated with officially, but I'm kind of curious about using this along with Anilip to adjust the expressions and make them more stylized.
I'm at work right now but if there are any example things I can do that would help people I can give it a shot!
It seems a lot like what Powerpose is supposed to do?
It's a lot like that, but the parameters are different and it's easier to move (at least for me). The best way I can explain it is it's like using Mesh Grabber on the face, except with guardrails. And when you apply a facial expression from the set to the attachment, you can see the dials it activated for each of the face bones and tweak them.
Does it work with other expressions at all? I mean most of us have an expression pack or two we like.
Pricey? Guess you're not a member... I bought it along with Spring Dynamics... $15.66 for Face Controls.
It works with expressions applied to the character's face, in the same way PowerPose does. I haven't tried testing to see if other poses work on the attachment, but I can give it a shot after work.
For folks who are trying to make a purchase decision, the question is probably whether or not you feel your character expressions would benefit from having a rubber face. I find it easier to use than PowerPose but if you're satisfied with PowerPose this is probably not going to be a vast change to your workflow, especially if you're only doing static renders. Later tonight I might try to capture the animation included with the package so y'all can have a point of comparison.
Oh, here's a good example! It's like this. (Around 1:50 on the embed.)
As I am more interested in story telling than portraits I have bought more than the standard issue expressions that come with the DO Pro Bundles.
The PA Faux2D does indeed state that the product is intended to be a FACS system for Genesis 3 and Genesis 8. They fact that DAZ 3D bought out his share to make it a DAZ Originals and the steep introductory price (for a DAZ Originals) at least clues me in that the DAZ 3D staff that evaluates these products was suitably impressed.
Here is the post were he said that: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5995057/#Comment_5995057
I have to wait to December to buy this though I definately am buying.
Both Autoface & Face Controls are good but that extra geometry in Autoface can be problematic to control in DAZ Studio especially when paired with multiple characters & SBH or fibre hair. I intend to buy & use Face Control with Autoface turned off and then after the face pose is to my satisfaction partially 'turn on' autoface to add geomtry details (you need not turn on autoface to 100% by the way and for some characters autoface is problematic so for that you need to see the autoface support thread in the Commercial section. Unfortunately the PA, D.Master, for autoface has been having a hard time as of late so he's not been active in his support thread for his products & do wish him well).
I have tried also PedroFurtado's 20 Unique Smiles (two products for G8F & G8M) and while the work he did was good it's essentially 20 preset smiles with sliders to control how much you apply them so very limiting.
Also, the 101 Expression Library (for both G8F & G8M, two products as well) is to be admired for the fastidious & tedious work the PA Gustef did and the presets he made but again, it's not a FACS system but a good time saver to getting to the particular expression you have in your head quicker (or on an image from elsewhere).
Here the 4 most flexible (in my opinion).
1) Face Control (one product by Faux2D / DO) - https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-3--8-face-controls
2) Autoface (for GF8 & G8M - 2 products by D.Master) - https://www.daz3d.com/auto-face-enhancer-genesis-8-males-bundle & https://www.daz3d.com/auto-face-enhancer-genesis-8-female-s-bundle
3) 101 Expressions (for G8F & G8M - 2 products by Gustef / DO) - https://www.daz3d.com/101-expression-library-with-dials-for-the-genesis-8-female & https://www.daz3d.com/101-expression-library-with-dials-for-the-genesis-8-male
4) 20 Unique Smiles - (for G8F & G8M - 2 products by PedroFurtadoArts) - https://www.daz3d.com/20-unique-smiles-hd-for-genesis-8-females & https://www.daz3d.com/20-unique-smiles-hd-for-genesis-8-males-
Also, there are excellent expressions included as presets with the Edie 8 Pro Bundle that can be applied to G8M as well. Likewise with Ollie 8's Pro Bundle expression sets to G8F (Edie's are better than Ollie's but they are both interchangable with G8F / G8M).
I'm sorry to hear D.Master is having troubles and I hope he's doing better soon.
Your whole post is pretty valuable to anyone considering buying this, I think. I also have most of those products and have run up against the same limitations--they're great but this is a workflow improvement, and I imagine it definitely would be helpful to anyone animating in Daz. Any time I need to do an extreme expression for one of my more stylized characters, I end up using a combination of Unique Smiles, base expressions, AFE, and Facial Elasticity Morphs. This won't replace them for me, but the ability to just grab the bones in front of the face and move the associated mesh around fluidly is going to be a big help for things like asymmetry and the illusion of catching a character speaking, which is useful for comic panels.
you also get 20$ worth of select Daz originals free with two purchases. It's a good deal
@plasma_ring, I don't do anything remotely as involved as what most users here do (and can't until a hardware upgrade), and certainly don't have plans to animate anything, but being able to grab and fluidly move the facial bones would make this an instant buy for me if it means that I would be able to fluidly counteract the creepy Joker-face and other mouth-centric weirdness that G8 characters get with a lot of expressions. My characters don't tend to be very stylized if at all which makes that weirdness extra unsettling.
Do you think this would work well for that purpose, having played around with it? I tried to determine that from the minimal product description and really couldn't, and with all the videos purchase paywalled... I've got a bunch of expressions that I've bought and never touch because they're nightmare fuel when applied. I'd love to be able to tweak the problem places (mostly the mouths) and would happily buy this if it meant finally being able to use those expressions in still portraits and storytelling pieces, along with building my own.
Why isn't the video tutorial posted on the product page? It's ridiculous that there isn't even a GIF of it in use. Same with all the animated pose products, how on earth is someone supposed to buy these if they have no idea what the animation actually looks like? Buy everything sight unseen and then return them if they're not just right? A lot of trouble for everyone could be avoided with some very short clips of these products in action.