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was a joke, that's why I wrote below "JK" = Just Kidding.
not good results yet
Tried facegen once...
...still get flashbacks
But don't worry, after a few years i'm pretty sure the waking in cold sweats stops...
Yup..................I took the bait, lol What did you think of my last Face Gen of her. I can export and send you the results. I am actually trying to find a few characters too, but can't seem to find good photos and as you can see if I get a decent photo I can get pretty close in Face Gen. I have been looking for a good frontal face photo of Seiko Matsuda forever. The photo below just won't translate to Face Gen for some reason. But I do think I can put together a decent rendition of the idol you are looking for just need to find a decent texture.
The internet is serious business. That's why cats rule the internet, because cats are super serious.
With how popular these idols are, I would have expected somebody with a decent camera to photograph them, LOL. I swear every picture is blurry like it was scanned out of a print magazine or caught with an outdated phone. Its even harder to find any pictures of them just looking straight at the camera.
This is a prime example. Hair covers both brows, and the head is cropped out. It is much better to have the entire head visible. Its actually not hard to fake, it doesn't need to be perfect in any way. The brows are a big problem, because you have no idea how they look, you could maybe combine a couple photos. But the biggest issue is that even if you fix all that, this pic is absolutely tiny. There is no detail here to go on, the face is too fuzzy for Facegen to make sense of. You need a pic that's at least 4 times this size if you want to have any chance at all of capturing her likeness. Its like I said earlier, you have to have good quality photos to use these kinds of software, there is no way around it unless you can texture them yourself.
foold me a second there lol
... responding to post several back, no point here now, we all know ;-)
all in good fun :-)
I would say that the software has to do about 90% of the work to creatate an accurate likeness, but what I have found is that you are really just going for a convincing impression. The hardest thing to replicate in CG is personality. If you can find some signature trait of someone you are trying to mimic in CG, then everybody will be able to identify the character you are going for. I attached a model I made with Face Gen and only used the default G3 texture. the features of the face came from Face Gen. The impression that it is Marie Osmond comes from the type of clothes the hair, and of course the signature smile. I have use this model in animation and even the facial expression come out convincing with no tweaking.
This is her without the smile to help identify. You still rely on an impression
I would say the jaw is the more difficult part. Here's my attempts playing around with the G8F base & head morphs:
That's what cartoonists do, the concept is no different. But then the question is, do you want an accurate likeness or a caricature? If you want a genuinely accurate likeness, that is going to take some work. It is totally possible to identify a good likeness with none of the personality, it depends on the situation. Some people just have that kind of face, where you know who it is no matter what they are wearing or what their expression is. Some people have doppelgangers out there, like Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon...are they really two different people?
That's in the ball park. What skin is that?
I am always finishing with another character, this is a gift for all of you, shaping file included, she is all default G8 female morphs, enjoy!
She looks like Thalia
Wow outrider I love your input in most threads. you give alot of great information, but do the pictures I post look like caricatures ? I took a grand total of about 10 minutes to use a program that does a very good job creating a "likeness" with only a decent photograph. It is a 3D model after all, even if you got the absolute perfect dimensions down to fractions of millimeters as soon as you apply a generic expression your perfect measurements are waisted. Unless you are willing to watch hours of video to capture every particular nuance the real person applies then customize morphs accordingly what would the the point of exacting perfection be? Cartoonest give impression of what they are trying to convey through the use of a particular media and most people can interpret the intentions of the artist, which is the same thing you are doing with 3D Art. Take a look at the pictures I attached which are all of the same person, stangely they are all based on the same dimensions yet render a different impression of what the person looks like in each picture. They look more or less the same but not exactly. I would be willing to bet that it would be very possible to make many renditions look very much like the original without applying exacting measurements. Unless you use some type of scanning apperatus lazer, depth sensors, point cloud and a hollywood budget to study how a person smile, how they talk, blink, walk sit and so forth it is just an indication and imatation of who the person is, much like portrait done with oil paint would be. By the way my intent here is to be constructive not argumenative as I said I do value people with expetise like yours chiming in. But please if you have examples of your work that will help resolve the issue in this thread that many of us are trying to assist with, add to actual progression by posting a file. Seriously I alway want to learn better techniques and I'm guessing we all do.
in fact looks like Sakura's Cat, Maru:
I would like! she looks like Song Ji Eun in sort way
you have a closer Sakura than me, your nose and cheek bones are closer.
in this photo Sakura looks like being FaceGenized in real life!!, not photoshop, not liquify, real photo and still cant believe it.
I have a theory about different focal lenghts on the photos, this 2 images are from 2019 showing different faces due to different focal lenght used, I suspect!
when I recreate her using Pref software I use front view, when returning to perspective view I got different results.
OK, Got that Face Gen into DS, still tweaking with and without glasses. There are many adjustments in DS than can make her look closer
Here is one with a simple smile applied.
Thank you :-)
You extracted a bit too much from what I said. I wasn't trying be argumentative, but IMO Facegen is only the start of a process if you want to capture a fuller likeness. Most of Facegen's work is simply applying details from a photo to the texture. The actual shape that Facegen makes is very rarely that close to be honest. So the resemblance comes from what you see in the texture more than the shape. This has issues, as soon as you turn to the side, most of the time the illusion falls off because Facegen generally uses the one photo. Even when you use a side photo which Facegen can do, it only applies that detail so far on the side, and sometimes it even backfires. If I use all 3 photo options that Facegen gives you, I have had a hard time getting that to work well. In theory it should work best, but because Facegen makes you manually place dots, it is very hard to do that consistently for both sides of the face. The result is more asymmetry than there should be, and sometimes the photos blend poorly together even when they are all lit the same. Besides, there is always a clear cut off point where the Facegen part of the image ends and the Genesis base that you used begins. The side photo is more about shape than texture.
You can use other textures besides the default, but Facegen is "tuned" for the base textures. If you use a texture that is wildly different from the base, lets say African, then you will probably not like the result. I have seen textures come out purple from Facegen! So what I do is edit the existing textures. I like to remove all the moles and specific spots from the face and torso. It gets weird to see the exact same moles in the same places on different people. So what I do is make a 'clean' texture, and then later add in moles or whatever to make that texture unique. You can always use photos to add in that detail later.
I am not saying your renders are bad. I have offered what advice I can, that most of the source photos are problematic here. This is the vital part of the whole thing, you have to have a good photo, which is why everybody has had so much trouble pinning this lady down. And I outlined what makes a good source photo. Without that photo, this is going to be tough. Yes, you created a Marie Osmond quickly, sometimes it works that way. It is apparent that with this girl that she is going to be more challenging.
I have discussed Facegen in more detail in its own thread. This thread is not specifically about Facegen. It is about replicating a face from a photo, which could mean dial spinning, custom shaping in Hexagon, and lots of things. And it is apparent that zilver desires an accurate likeness as possible. A lot of this stuff is simply trial and error, there is no right or wrong way if you can get the desired result.
Obviously nobody stays the same. People can look very different from day to day, even hour to hour. Any recreation of a person, whether it be a cartoon or 3D, is going be about that one particular moment in time for them. The pictures you posted, 2 are album covers, one was released in 1984, the other was released in 1988. Obviously with 4 years of time between them, she is going to look different. Also, because they are album covers, these photos are professional creations, with make up and lighting. I think it is pretty clear that the first image, from 1984, is a younger woman. The 2nd is slightly older and more mature, this is reflected in her face and attire, and this is probably intentional to reflect on her music has changed in the 4 years since the previous. The 3rd pic looks like a screen cap from a VCR tape, it is very hard to even see, but she is giving a live performance, and certainly the conditions are going to be different than that of a professional photo shoot.
So if you want to see what I have done. Here it goes. I did try this girl but I didn't like the result at all. The photos are pretty difficult to get a good result from. So here is another I have done before. I have done this picture with Facegen, Face Transfer, and Headshop as I have all 3. In the end, I liked the Face Transfer more.
This is the original image. This is Devon Aoki at an early stage of her career. She has very unique face, perhaps because she is Japanese and German. She is sort of like the human version of Grumpy Cat, LOL, and I mean that in a positive way, not an insult.
This is the kind of pic I am talking about. A straight ahead shot with mostly even light and no expression. BUT it still isn't good enough. See the light reflections on her skin? That will be baked into the texture, so that's not what we want.
So I edited it. I worked out some of the flash and I tinted the color a bit because the result was too dark.
This image would work for Facegen and Headshop, but Face Transfer cannot use it because her head is cut off by the pic. So...lets give her one!
As goofy as it looks, this will work for Face Transfer. It doesn't have to be perfect, as long as it is human and you are keeping the hair out of the face. I also upscaled the image using an AI upscaler. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. It can help get rid of some of the nasty grain in the image. I fed this to Face Transfer.
I used the Face Transfer Shapes set from Phil, which as I said before are essentially required. I applied the main fix shape around 60% and a little of the Asian Face. I don't think I did anything else.
Face Transfer then spits out some textures. Maybe some of have noticed, but Face Transfer does not apply any other textures at all, no bumps, no gloss, and most important, no translucency maps. Not having trans maps will kill you, this is why the face turns red when you render. You have to apply some maps. The default Genesis 8 material preset looks frankly terrible, so I opt for something else entirely, a bluejaunte material preset. I think I used Misumi for this one, but pretty much any of them will work. Apply the preset, then swap your Face Transfer textures in for the color and trans maps. Turn down the trans value to around 0.75-0.85, and the bump map strength, too. You may need to adjust the one of the trans color values.
Face Transfer did a nice job capturing her eyebrows. The white reflection you see is an actual reflection, not something baked in. I then did some work on the face texture, the texture has a dark black line where the lips meet in the photo. It is not too visible here, but when you open her mouth it will be. Then there are the eye lids, which often look off and sometimes the sclera ends up on the face texture. The nose usually needs a touch up, the black Face Transfer applies to the nostrils is too large sometimes. Face Transfer gave an ok eye color here, but I wanted to use a better one. I can't remember whose eyes they are. I also made the lips glossier.
So there she is. It is not perfect, but I didn't custom sculpt her.
Very good character, Outrider42!
my hope is when I saw an old man creating a landscape(not the video below of course) using pixel art on...MS Paint, of course all human beings tinkin´ "that's impossible!, MS Paint is useless!"
this video is not the same person but explain my point.
that concludes is not the software my limit, my limit is my lack of how to manage all this +500 DS parameters, and more when I need to unchek "limits" on every parameter. Sakura is not my first attempt to recreate a face, I was succesful doing Sayumi Michishige in one day in DS, Sakura have a difficult face due to many changes in hair style, color hair, makeup, but she is not impossible to recreate in DS just it needs many time to studying her. is doable guys!, just patience, or time will tell the last answer.
Outrider........My Brother, oddly enough the pic I posted here s of a character I created over 2 years ago before I knew much at all on how to use Face Gen. Not a lot work in DAZ other than tweaking a few dials and I think the likeness is very accurate. Even the skin tone since she is a redhead seems to closer to the fact, but that of course is all depenant on the photo available. I beleave you conveyed in your full page disertation exactly what I was saying to begin with and that is that no matter what technique you use, you will still only be successful at creating an impression.
Again, I value your input alot, but when folks come into a thread sharpshoot the attempts being made without giving instructions for a better technique or better yet attaching a file that can actually be opened in DAZ to acheive that better technique, I just find it a bit counter productive. No need to keep the volley of "I know more than you do" going back and forth. I won't chase anymore rabbits, that is not helping Zilver. I would say that if you have a file that you created that is in the likeness of the character in question in this thread, I for one would would absolutely love it if you would share it.
Zilver, I am still trying to get the likeness but of course your opinion is the one that counts. I'm not sure if you think the last photos I shared of the character in DAZ from Face Gen look remotely like Sakura but I can send you what I have. I have a dat file and texture and I'm not sure if it would be possible to just send you a character preset file.
Yes your character is like more a very good base shape to work for sculpting the final result, and, I appreciate your help.
I've come with some answers reading all your replies:
FaceGen wont give you neither exact nor close results, and depend so much of your learning curve with this software, for me is not worth the invest because simply is not a "make clon face" button, sorry.
A good photo with nude forehead is a must for a "near close" character, and then your skills in DS will determine your final result, too.
Zbrush is f. good only IF you have the expertise and skills to do, inside.
A Good eye on the structure of the face of any human trying to replicate is needed. I made this with Sayumi and it worked, but not working on Sakura this time, that´s why I´m confused with a technique I was, or, I thougth it was perfect for any human face.
Facegen think all asians are like Eskimo faces
the same way DS thinks all women are "medieval, futuristic, martial artists and dragon owner Victorias naked or not naked with a hello kitty edition pink lightsaber "
without forgetting that in all this process of experimentation and learning I have obtained all those own characters, useful for future projects
I do not disagree with Outrider at all, although it may seem like we are odds on this. I just beleave we are saying the same thing in different ways. I am not claiming to be an expert in any way and I think the results I get are comparable to some of " the experts". To be honest with you Zilver Face Gen is not a one click solution, it gives you very comprehensive sculpting and texturing array of tools as well. You just need to learn how to use them to bias what the result will end up being in DAZ. I think Face Gen is a very capable asset to have particularly if you can supply the type of photos that suits it best. Many times I will open gimp from with in the diffuse slider in the surfaces tab to tweak the photo that came out of Face Gen. The heal tool can do wonders to make corrections to the texture and get rid of things like eyebrows, freckles or even change the tone of the skin.
So, what do you want me to send you? the dat and texture? I think someone said it is not illegal to share the output of Face Gen. Let me know.
texture is not necessary, all other legal assets will do fine.
It was not my intention to offend anyone. I have never made any claim that I am some expert at anything Daz. All I wanted to do was offer what I thought was helpful advice. It is clear that is not the case, so I'll take my leave.
And yes, you can share the files that Facegen creates, I posted a link to the legal section of their site on the first page.
Nope! That won't do Outrider. you did nothing worthy of offending to that degree please do stay in the conversation.! Check your P.M. i sent you a message!!
Zilver sorry about the time lapse I am attaching the dat file here, but I beleave I need to send the scene sub set of the character also because like strait out of
Face Gen DAZ assigns noses and other parts what it choses so there are some tweaks I added.
Outrider, can sub sets be legally shared also?
By the way that dat was for G8, I hope that is what you need.
Maybe?, almost?, too late here in my poor 3rd country but I'm happy with this result!
test renders.