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224 S 200 W, Suite #250
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IF you want to get a daz render to standard comic look there are 3 problems that will require manual editing.
as for what setting I use in PS to prep my daz render...I am currently trying several methods outlined in various youtube tutorials.
I am not settled on one yet but Daz has some camera filter that will do the same thing.
Here are your 3 problems
facial expressions
shadow inking
hair
Daz can not pull off comic style in those 3 areas so you need to go in with an art program and add/adjust it yourself.
What I shoot for is to get all the foreground (basically everything except backdrop) into a line render and use that as a rough and start drawing over it.
yes it is double work but your proportions and prospective will be perfect.
that is the key to making Daz look perfectly like drawn comics...use it as a rough draft.
Background is more flexible, you can filter it 'artsey' if it is not special..blur it, fade it..whatever. This is a comic.
If the background IS important then I filter or adjust it much less to bring out the details Daz renders are great at.
and I always render at least 4 versions of every shot.
everything on as a total reference
just the backdrop
just the main characters
main characters + foreground ( no background )
extra work ...yes
super flexability in putting the finish together
lets you use layers effectively - you will be glad you did this when I comes time to add FX
hope this helps
Haha, right on man, glad I've been helpful and hopefully not too critical. :) And thanks again for kind words about my work.
Glad to know your books available elsewhere, I'll seek'em out now! Congrats again on the 9th book, keep it up!
I know right! Glad you're liking it. The layout and lettering tools are especially awesome in my opinion.
Keep in mind that CSP is great for comics; it’s also one best drawing and painting programs around.
I’m trying to do a story called “Ventures’ Girls”, you’ve met Simon Venture now here’s the rest of the team.
JCThomas,
Your artwork is great, but I was wondering whether you’d mind a little criticism?
Nope, not at all!
@avxp I just picked up the Destruction of Redder Coltrane on Kindle, is that a good starting point? Does it include this recent issue?
Thank you! Support is AWESOME!
That book covers the story arc from episodes 2-7. It combines them into one story. It makes a great introduction to the universe.
It's the first story arc and establishes Sooo much.
you actually NEED to read that before the latest epsiode (09 Metal Devil Maiden) or you'll miss certain motifs and key moments and lose tons of impact.
We gotta talk when you're done with that.
Let me know how it works/plays on your kindle.
It looks great, but I found navigating around wasn't like the iPads that I'm used to.
I still pinch and swipe everything with a touch screen and I must use a mouse with my lap top. The touch pad, below the keybaord is still difficult for me.
Here’s the thing your art works well for a comic, but the pacing is not very good. You have way to many repetitive panels that don’t move the story along. This makes the story drag and it ends being longer than it need to be. If you had an editor he’d never let you get away with this, because it wastes paper, ink, and labor. Today with things being digital most people would say it doesn’t matter, but it’s not good way to create a tight story. If your story drags you’ll lose your audience. I took one of your pages and reduce it from one page to one or two panels. This of course is just my option.
If you haven’t read I recommend – Graphic Storytelling & Visual Narrative by Will Eisner
This leads to the concept of "compressing" - at least I think that's what it's called. It's kinda controversial, where it's used to fill pages by having very similar scenes follow with one or two minor changes.
So it's cheating when used to add bulk to a story and thus less work for the illustrator (actually the editor might not like it, but the artist would love it).
Or it's artsy-fartsy because it creates emotional impact from a lingering moment. You're letting that scene drag on and adding quiet, reflective time.
Even, by math standards, the number of frames in a scene count as the passage of time.
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It's also the age old battle between writer and illustrator, where the writer is like "Draw enough to fit my words" and the artist wants to show and not explain.
You can usually tell who's working for who. Tons of text and small pictures usually means the writer is the owner of the property and they've hired an artist to flesh out the story.
Tons of images and little to no dialog...well, you know the rest.
So it depends.
I'd like to see true sequential pages. So far, we've seen scattered pages. I need to get a feel and I am really curious on how this would play out.
How would a moment of peril be depicted? So, far, I think the moody atmosphere is right, the look is right.
A somewhat more active section.
What does the writing give us and I hope there's a big ending or epic sequence worth the build up. Now I don't mean a bunch of things blowing up or deaths or surprise left turns, just meaningful.
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For most comics, I want to see the welding between characters and the environment. That seems to always be the biggest challenge- how to put them in a real space.
It's like, almost a rule that whatever you do the people, you have to do to the backgrounds too.
Thanks for the feedback and taking time to illustrate some points on one of the pages. I have read Will Eisner's Graphic Storytelling & Visual Narrative actually, a great resource indeed. Scott McCloud's work is also really helpful: Understanding Comics, Reinventing Comics, and Making Comics. Although I happen to disagree with your assessment, I'll keep your points in mind, and I hope you'll continue to provide feedback as this thread continues. One might argue that Eisner's work could also support the way I have layed these pages out as well. You're right, it can be quite subjectve. I'll admit though that working from a screenplay is more challenging than working from a panel by panel breakdown and description. In any case, the layout and pacing are quite intentional.
This is a rather small story, only two characters, basic plot. So it's more character-driven, the change in the relationship between the two characters from beginning to end is the main point. There's a big payoff at the end in terms of a rather brutal fight, which is probably the big meaningful end you're talking about. I'll consider posting some sequential pages, but no guarantees :)
Here’s a sample I did for a writer, in the book this came from it covered over two pages of dialog.
Images removed by mod for nudity
In my mind, a comic is more a visual story. A lot of the descriptive text should be shown in image panels, perhaps some thought bubbles.
In the very first panel you narrate "Jake called out"... but the character in the panel is just lying there. He should have called out and that should have been left out of the narrative.
Just my 2pense
That, to me, is the needle swinging back too much the other way.
Two actions described in one panel, I think is too much.
And I personally try and avoid text bubbles sitting on top or covering characters.
I would have put the "I'm on it" bubble under the 'police' bubble.
There's a risk that my eye travels from left to right and I read the "I'm on it" first and then scan over to the top bubble.
At the very least, it causes my eye to zig zag across the page to follow the text.
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When I break the rule of circular text bubbles, I try and make sure it's not a conversation that Must go in a certain order to make sense.
If it's just loose comments or action yells or just random outbursts, I'll loosen up on the tight control of your eye-scan and bubble order.
But it's really not a critique because every one has their own sensibilities and you do what you like.
We stray into the world of "What I would do" which is really a matter of taste once you get past the technical concerns.
I would disagree. Panels in a sequential art page represent moments in time. More panels, more time passing, more "beats" just as in a movie or play. It is that process of sequential visual information revelation that defines the passage of time. Suggesting that the first reaction shot panel is not necessary when it's obvious that this page in in the middle of the scene, and that reaction is in respnse to the panel at the bottom of the previous page. Condensing panels does not necessarily mean better pacing, on the contrary, it would make the story more spastic and unappealing.
Action, reaction, revelation, conflict, character, motivations, and emotion, these are the elements of story telling. Keep doing what your doing JC.
"...payoff at the end in terms of a rather brutal fight"
See now, if you make it one of the big turns that's...
1) Like both characters and nail bite over who gets hurt or even worse- dies!
2) Hate 1 character and can't wait to see them get what they deserve
3) learn human psychology and see it as one big tragedy.
4) love a character and finally get to see them evolve and overcome or break out of a shell.
5) enjoy a great statement about the human condition and potential....
6) Nothing but an entertaining diversion
There are so many ways this can go.
Condensing panels does not necessarily mean better pacing
I think we're guessing. And there's an overall vibe I need to feel. If we go, like 10 pages and nothing has happened then yes, that is a concern, but I can't accurately judge based on loose panels.
But it's good analysis to pick up on the pacing. But if the author is aware and in control then yes, it's a style thing.
But suppose it was SLOW. Suppose so? Would that be terrible to have a quiet book?
I like the Solaris movie(s) (both versions)
But it's slow.
On the other end, it took several tries to get through Hardcore Henry.
Shoot Em Up was great, but also a little forgettable.
I loved Sunshine (movie) but the left turn, big payoff was meh. Wasn't really feeling that.
What were we discussing again?
Direct Draw and Vector Layers in CSP are very cool. Can you do that in Photoshop? I'm re-doing an old render and doing the line art myself to practice what I've learned so far. I also want to see if it looks better than using Photoshop Poster Edges. I love how I can change the thickness and manipulate the lines. I wish CSP exsisted when I was young. Might have gone down a completly different career path. Oh well at least I'm enjoying it as a hobby. My wife says I'm much less stressed when I do this. :-) I've been following everyone's posts and as usual learning a lot from them. Thank you to everyone who is contributing.
anyone knows one for android?
You mean a drawing program for Android?
Thanks man!
Working from a screenplay does impact the panels more than I initially let on, I think. If I get to a description in the screenplay, for example, that reads "Sam stares in contemplation," then that needs to be shown, just as it would be in a movie. A split second of silent staring, thus a panel to represent the same.
i think a lot of the differences come to down comic book eras. Old school comics, even up to the 80s, seem to have faster pacing, less silent panels, more things jammed onto a page. I just recently read the original Dark Phoenix saga by Claremont, and there're words in practically every panel, sometimes lots of them. This is where the subjectivity comes in...because to me that trait is to the detriment of those comics. I feel like a lot of the old classics don't hold up well at all anymore, including some of those Claremont X-men books. A lot of formerly-common tools have gone out ofuse/style...third person narration, thought balloons...breakneck pacing. For the better of the art form, in my opinion.
I'm also just about finished with Godland, an Image throwback to the heyday of Kirby and Lee. With perfect amounts of reverance and irreverance, it's great fun while also making you think "man, I can't believe they used to make comics like this..."
I mentioned Medibang Paint earlier in the thread. Works great on an iPad Pro, but I'm not sure if there are any android tablets powerful enough to run in pleasing-to-use manner. It's so-so on my Samsung Galaxy Tab A with S Pen. Also, only TIFF and PNG export.
PS can do vector layers, but I'm not sure about the direct draw tools. I used those a lot when I was beginning in MS, especially the curve live tool, and I really missed it in PS.
So the 1st one I did a while back. The 2nd one I did all the line work and some of the backgound (flames and rubble) in CSP. Then I did some touch up in PS. Thoughts?
A quick render to test a new toon shader that was on sale. My team leader now has a name and call sign.
I like the second one better. Only the flames seem a little too real looking or different than the figures....
It's hard to explain, but I feel like 'making something look like a comic book' is an "all out" or "all in" thing.
There's a whole soap box waiting around the corner on this subject, but I feel like -
the comic book is the packaging and the graphic technique is the medium.
People tend to lean towards thinking of a comic book as a medium in itself- like watercolor or oil paint or...or...
so 'looking like a comic book comes down to word bubbles and K-POW and BLAM!.
So again, is the medium something somebody drew? Am I supposed to believe you drew that picture and then colored it in?
If that's the goal then I think it's the break in the MEDIUM (the actual medium/technique) that breaks the illusion.
I think the phrase I'm reaching for is graphic consistency.
Ot the medium doesn't change- depending on what the subject is.
But that's just me.
When I first started using Daz, I bought Terragen and Bryce and something generator or former or......a procedural product that made landscapes from scratch.
I thought it looked OFF to have a 3D looking rendered person, with their 3D clothes and vehicles and behind them is basically a photograph/postcard.
Those programs did their job too well. lol
I stopped in that direction and began buying sets and building places and backgrounds using stuff like Easy Sets/Scenes
My immersion didn't break when my eye moved from object to object.
So I say, whatever you do as your 'look, I drew this' effect *should (in my opinion) be done to EVERYTHING.
Unless of course, that's your artistic vision and that's exactly what you want.
my 5 cents.
My ultimate goal is to make my renders look like modern, drawn comics. My long term goal is to learn how to draw and color myself, using DAZ as a reference. That being said, this render was an exercise, practice session, in using CSP. I did all the line work for Cable and Deadpool, the fire, and the rubble in CSP. The rubble and fire are CSP brushes. I made the mistake of putting the rubble and fire on the same layers. So the enhancements I did to the rubble in Nix also applied to the fire. However, with out the Nix enhancement, the fire looked kind of airbrushed. So I don't know what I could have done to make it match more with the Cable and Deadpool layer. I'm still learning how all these programs work and what they can do.
Keep going, you're on a roll.
Now that I step back and look again with fresh eyes, it's the thick line around everything and the fire doesn't have it.
That's what I think made my eye jump back.
A kind of tip for CSP
The first image is of the finished render.
The second image is what was rendered in DAZ Studio and saved as PNG file. I set up my page in CSP and added a frame. I imported my image that I created in DS into CSP. Since I always create an image larger than the page I resize and position the image. I then move the image layer to beneath the frame.
Third image on a layer below the image layer I create a rectangle selection starting at waist level and going to the top. I use a gradient called Midday Sky to create the sky.
Fourth image on a layer below the sky layer I create another rectangle selection covering the remaining blank area and use a gradient called Blue Sky to create the water.