Opinions on Marvelous Designer Video Tutorial?

135

Comments

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,119
    barbult said:
    peenwolf said:
    barbult said:

    I finally got the Dark Edge Design Marvelous Designer tutorial and downloaded the MD Trial yesterday. I'm thrilled with what I've learned from the tutorial so far. I made these loose fitting pants and the tank top following the tutorial instructions. I applied dForce Dynamic Surface to them in Daz Studio and they simulated very well with various poses I tried. I hope there will be more of these tutorials coming to the Daz store soon. I like the Dark Edge Design tutorial style and content.

    Have you considered doing the cloth simulation in Marvelous Designer rather than D-force?  At high particle density, the cloth sim in MD is a lot better looking than D-force, in my opinion.

    You can transition to the new poses in MD by either doing a series of 'morph targets' or importing the pose transition animation into MD (collada won't be accurate but Alembic animation works).

    No, I haven't tried that. I don't have any clue how to that yet. I will need to look for a tutorial and give it a try. Thanks for the tips.

    PhilW said:

    Marvelous Designer is useful to make clothes for Carrara too - here is an old example of mine, clothing done in MD (probably MD6 I think), Carrara dynamic hair and rendered with Octane plugin for Carrara.

    That is a very nice outfit. I like all the trim details on the neck and sleeve. Did you make the belt, too?

    Yes I made the belt - it is not ideal as the "buckle" slopes inwards. As I remember it was made using a very stiff fabric like leather.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,547
    PhilW said:
    barbult said:
    peenwolf said:
    barbult said:

    I finally got the Dark Edge Design Marvelous Designer tutorial and downloaded the MD Trial yesterday. I'm thrilled with what I've learned from the tutorial so far. I made these loose fitting pants and the tank top following the tutorial instructions. I applied dForce Dynamic Surface to them in Daz Studio and they simulated very well with various poses I tried. I hope there will be more of these tutorials coming to the Daz store soon. I like the Dark Edge Design tutorial style and content.

    Have you considered doing the cloth simulation in Marvelous Designer rather than D-force?  At high particle density, the cloth sim in MD is a lot better looking than D-force, in my opinion.

    You can transition to the new poses in MD by either doing a series of 'morph targets' or importing the pose transition animation into MD (collada won't be accurate but Alembic animation works).

    No, I haven't tried that. I don't have any clue how to that yet. I will need to look for a tutorial and give it a try. Thanks for the tips.

    PhilW said:

    Marvelous Designer is useful to make clothes for Carrara too - here is an old example of mine, clothing done in MD (probably MD6 I think), Carrara dynamic hair and rendered with Octane plugin for Carrara.

    That is a very nice outfit. I like all the trim details on the neck and sleeve. Did you make the belt, too?

    Yes I made the belt - it is not ideal as the "buckle" slopes inwards. As I remember it was made using a very stiff fabric like leather.

    I think that method looks fine.  I guess a quick way to make a more stiff 3D belt would be to just use the MD fabric as a placeholder and then add an actual buckle OBJj in Daz before rendering.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,547
    edited November 2019
    barbult said:
    peenwolf said:
    barbult said:

    I finally got the Dark Edge Design Marvelous Designer tutorial and downloaded the MD Trial yesterday. I'm thrilled with what I've learned from the tutorial so far. I made these loose fitting pants and the tank top following the tutorial instructions. I applied dForce Dynamic Surface to them in Daz Studio and they simulated very well with various poses I tried. I hope there will be more of these tutorials coming to the Daz store soon. I like the Dark Edge Design tutorial style and content.

    Have you considered doing the cloth simulation in Marvelous Designer rather than D-force?  At high particle density, the cloth sim in MD is a lot better looking than D-force, in my opinion.

    You can transition to the new poses in MD by either doing a series of 'morph targets' or importing the pose transition animation into MD (collada won't be accurate but Alembic animation works).

    No, I haven't tried that. I don't have any clue how to that yet. I will need to look for a tutorial and give it a try. Thanks for the tips.

    The workflow would be similar to this one:

    But in that video he uses Collada export when he exports from Daz studio.  If you do that, and then try to export your MD garment as an OBJ to use it in Daz, it might not match up with the pose in Daz because the positions of the Collada avatar it is not vertex exact.  So you have to either:

    1. Export your pose transition animation as Alembic instead of Collada when exporting from Daz. (EDIT: Or export as MDD cache as mentioned by marble below)

    Or alternatively:

    2. Do morph target method using OBJ files. See this video for loading morph targets from Daz into MD:

    Note: You may have to load a series of incremental morph targets if the pose transition from the base A-pose to the destination pose is drastic.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    edited November 2019
    barbult said:

    @Barbult very nice to see someone's work, your outfit looks great! smiley

    @DarkEdgeDesign, thanks for your encouragement, I've gone on to convert my tank top to a V-Neck and make it a little looser. I created a circle skirt, based on what I learned in the tutorials about free sewing, to attach the waistband to the skirt waist hole. I saw a promo for a new tutorial on YouTube. Will it be coming to the Daz store soon? I'm eager to learn more from you, even though I haven't mastered everything in the first MD tutorial.

    Looks very natural to me, @barbult - keep 'em coming!

    - Greg

    As you wish!
    I lengthened my tank top and made it a tank dress.

    I followed the tutorial instructions for tracing an existing pattern and created this dress. I borrowed the belt from a purchased Daz store asset. I added "elastic" to the waist of the dress in MD. This was from an old pattern I had sewn for myself many years ago.

    Here's a longer version of the circle skirt in plaid.

     

     

    G8F MD Dress from pattern.jpg
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    G8F MD Tank Dress.jpg
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    G8F MD Tutorial Clothes V Neck Circle Skirt 3 Greer Hair Standing.jpg
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,119

    @barbult - terrific work, the fabrics you have used on these look great tioo.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    PhilW said:

    @barbult - terrific work, the fabrics you have used on these look great tioo.

    Thanks, Phil. The fabrics are from various shaders I have purchased from Daz over the years.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805

    @peenwolf, thank you very much for the info on the morph targets. smiley I don't have the Alembic exporter (I assume that is necessary to use that method??). I will try the morph targets later today.

  • All of your work is looking great..keep it going! In the new tutorial I show how to import poses to MD and letting the cloth settle. You can actually use MD for creating your own JCM morphs too (which I show you how to import and hook them up in Studio).
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,547
    edited November 2019

    Still need to fix a few things, mainly was just seeing how complex i could make something.

    Captain America Full Outfit 3_3.png
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    Captain America Full Outfit 3_3 (2).png
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    Post edited by lilweep on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    peenwolf said:

    Still need to fix a few things, mainly was just seeing how complex i could make something.

    That is pretty amazing! It looks very real. 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    edited November 2019

    I tried to follow the examples to to an animated drape of the garment in MD, but I couldn't get it to work right. This is all new to me, so I could be doing something wrong. I guess I need the (coming soon)  Dark Edge Design tutorial.

    I tried the morph target method. The beginning and ending poses in the animation look good, but the tween poses have distorted the arms and hands so much that the cloth doesn't drape well at all in that area.

    I tried the Collada method (keeping in mind the issues mentioned by @peenwolf about reimporting OBJ to Daz), but the end pose of the animation is not correct and joint bends are distorted, so it is worthless for draping the clothing. (Viewed rotated to show that hands are not behind head and joint bends are bad)

    This model is base G8F.

    MD Morph Target Distortion.jpg
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    MD Collada Import.jpg
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.

    Do JCMs help me do an animated drape of my clothing in Marvelous Designer in some way? Will your new tutorial show how to drape clothing on a pose like the one with the arms up and behind the head? Sorry if I sound clueless - I am!

  • DarkEdgeDesignDarkEdgeDesign Posts: 477
    edited November 2019
    Yes to cloth draping in MD. JCM's are Studio driven so only work in Studio. But JCM's are helpful in many ways so being able to create and plug them in is always a plus. This might be one of those subjects that's easier to see than write out (at least for me!) Often times when using 2 programs its a matter of filling in the holes where the 2 programs don't match up.
    Post edited by DarkEdgeDesign on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    edited November 2019

    I figured out a scheme that works for me, based on a comment from peenwolf about maybe needing multiple morphs. Here is a comparison of a loose fitting dress created in MD and draped in Daz dForce vs. draping in MD. MD kept quite a few additional wrinkle details that dForce wiped out. The difference is very visible. I can see why peenwolf prefers the MD draping.

    dForce draping in Daz Studio

    Marvelous Designer draping with morph targets

    Babina McCall's 2310 Dress Pattern Size dForce.jpg
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    Babina McCall's 2310 Dress Pattern Size Draped in MD.jpg
    1538 x 2000 - 2M
    Post edited by barbult on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,031
    barbult said:
    Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.

    Do JCMs help me do an animated drape of my clothing in Marvelous Designer in some way? Will your new tutorial show how to drape clothing on a pose like the one with the arms up and behind the head? Sorry if I sound clueless - I am!

    Have you tried using MDD to export the animation from DAZ Studio? You will have MDD if you have the paid version of Animate 2. 
     

    https://www.versluis.com/2015/03/how-to-export-animations-from-daz-studio-for-use-in-marvelous-designer/

     

  • Nods. Absolutely nothing compares to MD draping.
  • barbult said:
    Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.

    Do JCMs help me do an animated drape of my clothing in Marvelous Designer in some way? Will your new tutorial show how to drape clothing on a pose like the one with the arms up and behind the head? Sorry if I sound clueless - I am!

    Not really, the problem is that a morph moves each vertex along a straight line from start position to end position, so it fails on rotations like this. Intermediate morphs might improve matters, but ti would still be using a series of straight lines to approximate an arc.

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,119
    edited November 2019

    I've done MDD export from Carrara before now using Fenric's plugin and that works well, so it should be similar for Daz Studio. I was able to simulate in MD and then re-import the sim-ed clothing back into Carrara and have it match up perfectly.

    The woman's clothing in this video was done like this - the animated part starts around 4:00.

    Post edited by PhilW on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,031
    PhilW said:

    I've done MDD export from Carrara before now using Fenric's plugin and that works well, so it should be similar for Daz Studio. I was able to simulate in MD and then re-import the sim-ed clothing back into Carrara and have it match up perfectly.

    The woman's clothing in this video was done like this - the animated part starts around 4:00.

     

    Excellent video Phil. Like the music too. :)

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,547
    marble said:
    barbult said:
    Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.

    Do JCMs help me do an animated drape of my clothing in Marvelous Designer in some way? Will your new tutorial show how to drape clothing on a pose like the one with the arms up and behind the head? Sorry if I sound clueless - I am!

    Have you tried using MDD to export the animation from DAZ Studio? You will have MDD if you have the paid version of Animate 2. 
     

    https://www.versluis.com/2015/03/how-to-export-animations-from-daz-studio-for-use-in-marvelous-designer/

     

    Oh that is a helpful tutorial/link.

    Animate2 is a lot cheaper than the alembic exporter so MDD cache is probably a better option than alembic.  And that said, I guess the OBJ morph target method is still a free alternative for people who dont want to pay for an export option from daz.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,031
    peenwolf said:
    marble said:
    barbult said:
    Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.

    Do JCMs help me do an animated drape of my clothing in Marvelous Designer in some way? Will your new tutorial show how to drape clothing on a pose like the one with the arms up and behind the head? Sorry if I sound clueless - I am!

    Have you tried using MDD to export the animation from DAZ Studio? You will have MDD if you have the paid version of Animate 2. 
     

    https://www.versluis.com/2015/03/how-to-export-animations-from-daz-studio-for-use-in-marvelous-designer/

     

    Oh that is a helpful tutorial/link.

    Animate2 is a lot cheaper than the alembic exporter so MDD cache is probably a better option than alembic.  And that said, I guess the OBJ morph target method is still a free alternative for people who dont want to pay for an export option from daz.

    I seem to remember that Alembic exporter was on sale for a huge discount but I missed it (I now have it wishlisted waiting for the next huge discount). But that was how I happened across the MDD tutorial and I do have the paid version of Animate 2. All I need to do now is try it surprise

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,119

    MDD basically exports a series of morphs, 1 per frame, so it is accurate to the source limb positions on each frame.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    marble said:
    barbult said:
    Keep in mind a morph is nothing but a dial that gets you from A to B. Both A & B will look good but not in between. That's why imo jcm's are so important they can help with that bridge in between A & B, then drape from there if wanted. As mentioned before I sometimes use MD to create my jcm's.

    Do JCMs help me do an animated drape of my clothing in Marvelous Designer in some way? Will your new tutorial show how to drape clothing on a pose like the one with the arms up and behind the head? Sorry if I sound clueless - I am!

    Have you tried using MDD to export the animation from DAZ Studio? You will have MDD if you have the paid version of Animate 2. 
     

    https://www.versluis.com/2015/03/how-to-export-animations-from-daz-studio-for-use-in-marvelous-designer/

    Ooooh, so much to learn! I do have the paid version of Animate 2. I will try exporting MDD. Thanks for the tip, marble.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,805
    edited November 2019

    MDD works perfectly so far. I draped the clothes on both of these women in MD. One is wearing the dress I created. The other is wearing the pants I created and the men's t-shirt freebie from Marvelous Designer. The dog didn't get any clothes, poor thing.

    Chiyo G8F Dog Clothes draped in MD.jpg
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    Post edited by barbult on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,547

    Looks good.  The wrinkles on the shirt kind of accentuate the twisting motion of the pose.

  • I like the shirt and pants a lot.
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,031
    edited November 2019
    barbult said:

    MDD works perfectly so far. I draped the clothes on both of these women in MD. One is wearing the dress I created. The other is wearing the pants I created and the men's t-shirt freebie from Marvelous Designer. The dog didn't get any clothes, poor thing.

     

    So to be clear, you are now doing all the draping in MD and importing the garment back to DAZ Studio as an .obj file which covers the pre-posed character already in your DAZ Studio scene, right? No dForce required, no conforming or fit adjusting either - perfect fit for that particular pose. And if you change the pose slightly, you need to go back to MD and re-drape? Are you finding this an efficient workflow? Just interested because I have been intending to do the same for months and have just not got around to it - I think I keep putting it off because of the belief that I need to do all the MD tutorials before I get to that stage but you seem to have reached it in no time.

    Post edited by marble on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,547
    edited November 2019
    marble said:
    barbult said:

    MDD works perfectly so far. I draped the clothes on both of these women in MD. One is wearing the dress I created. The other is wearing the pants I created and the men's t-shirt freebie from Marvelous Designer. The dog didn't get any clothes, poor thing.

     

    So to be clear, you are now doing all the draping in MD and importing the garment back to DAZ Studio as an .obj file which covers the pre-posed character already in your DAZ Studio scene, right? No dForce required, no conforming or fit adjusting either - perfect fit for that particular pose. And if you change the pose slightly, you need to go back to MD and re-drape? Are you finding this an efficient workflow? Just interested because I have been intending to do the same for months and have just not got around to it - I think I keep putting it off because of the belief that I need to do all the MD tutorials before I get to that stage but you seem to have reached it in no time.

    As long as you finalise your pose before doing anything else, that aspect of it shouldnt be much of a concern.

    But perhaps there is a way of using Morph Loader Pro to make the process a bit easier (i.e., that way you could just apply the moprh of the clothing rather than loading in the garment OBJ into Daz from scratch and loading in all shaders/textures again with the surfaces tool, which could be tedious if there are many many material zones).

    Also im wondering what the pipeline would look like if you wanted to use unique textures instead of Daz shaders.  Like, a workflow that uses Daz, MD, and e.g., Substance Painter.

    Post edited by lilweep on
  • marblemarble Posts: 7,031
    peenwolf said:
    marble said:
    barbult said:

    MDD works perfectly so far. I draped the clothes on both of these women in MD. One is wearing the dress I created. The other is wearing the pants I created and the men's t-shirt freebie from Marvelous Designer. The dog didn't get any clothes, poor thing.

     

    So to be clear, you are now doing all the draping in MD and importing the garment back to DAZ Studio as an .obj file which covers the pre-posed character already in your DAZ Studio scene, right? No dForce required, no conforming or fit adjusting either - perfect fit for that particular pose. And if you change the pose slightly, you need to go back to MD and re-drape? Are you finding this an efficient workflow? Just interested because I have been intending to do the same for months and have just not got around to it - I think I keep putting it off because of the belief that I need to do all the MD tutorials before I get to that stage but you seem to have reached it in no time.

    As long as you finalise your pose before doing anything else, that aspect of it shouldnt be much of a concern.

    But perhaps there is a way of using Morph Loader Pro to make the process a bit easier (i.e., that way you could just apply the moprh of the clothing rather than loading in the garment OBJ into Daz from scratch and loading in all shaders/textures again with the surfaces tool, which could be tedious if there are many many material zones).

    Also im wondering what the pipeline would look like if you wanted to use unique textures instead of Daz shaders.  Like, a workflow that uses Daz, MD, and e.g., Substance Painter.

    Yeah, "finalise the pose" seems like good working practice but I am never sure when a pose is finalised. I keep tweaking and saving, then noticing something else not quite right so I tweak some more. Bad enough doing that just in DAZ Studio but to keep having to export/import to and from MD would likely be a great time consumer. As you say, finalise must be literal - all the tweaking done for certain.

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