dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

13839404143

Comments

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 7,648
    lana_lass said:

    Hey all!

     

    I'm having an issue with loading this gorgeous hair and thought maybe somebody here could help. Sorry if this has been queried and answered already. For some reason, when I'm applying Femme Fatale even just to a base, 100% untouched G8F model, rather than look like Veronica Lake she's looking like Sideshow Bob (see attached)... 

     

    Not such a great look wink I've had a look at the readme etc and can't figure out what it is I'm doing wrong (or not doing right) but no doubt it's something on my end. Can any of you kind folks lend a hand with some pointers? Thanks in advance!

    Have you done a simulation? its dforce hair so requires it, beware depending on your computer this can take a while.

     

  • maybe a PA could make a curves wheatfield for the combine harvester to interact with

    I intend trying with a few duplicates of my Zbrush full poly fibermesh wheat but it will probable blackscreen my PCdevil

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,088
    PhilW said:

    I have just submitted my second dForce Hair, a thick and wavy drapeable style with lots of options, called Femme Fatale Hair. Here is a quick preview.

    I LOVE this hair! Thanks so much <3 Silly question, but what's the see-through top thiny you're using here?

    It's a set called Casual Spring, I think with this texture set:

    https://www.daz3d.com/casual-spring-authenique

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,088

    maybe a PA could make a curves wheatfield for the combine harvester to interact with

    I intend trying with a few duplicates of my Zbrush full poly fibermesh wheat but it will probable blackscreen my PCdevil

    Clever animation, Wendy!

  • I couldn't even render the  6x9 plots which I set out for my wheatfield let alone simulate it crying

  • SelekSelek Posts: 44

    I'm getting pretty frequent crashes while working on strand-based hair.  I just had two in the space of 20 minutes, both times while in the Style tab, combing or lengthening strands.  My PC is admittedly behind the times: 12G RAM, GTX 980, core i7 930.  Still, it runs Daz without any hiccups and renders fine, if a bit slowly.  Are there any settings I can try to reduce the frequency of crashes?  It's a shame, because I really enjoy working with the hair tool, and I feel like I'm getting the hang of it.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 1,054

    I get crashes too.  I hae 16gb RAM, GTX2080Ti, Ryzen 1330 something...

    It crashes sometimes when i go back and forwards between the steps.  E.g., from style tab back to painting tab etc.

    It is best practice to save frequently after you have made a lot of progress, and then go back to editing it.

  • SaintSaint Posts: 36

    I've noticed at least one strand-based hairstyle, dForce Cyd Hair, causing my rendering to crash or freeze a lot. I use a few others without issue so I'm at a loss to explain it.

    Also still fairly new to this stuff so if anyone else has any experience maybe they can point me in the right direction, this thread was the closest I could find to my query.

  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,268
    Saint said:

    I've noticed at least one strand-based hairstyle, dForce Cyd Hair, causing my rendering to crash or freeze a lot. I use a few others without issue so I'm at a loss to explain it.

    Also still fairly new to this stuff so if anyone else has any experience maybe they can point me in the right direction, this thread was the closest I could find to my query.

    Hi,

    I saw your post and wrote a reply here: https://www.facebook.com/notes/aprilysh3d/aprilysh-dforce-hair-vertex-count/3548968055136067

    TLDR: it's high res dreads by default so try the low res option please.  Thanks for your patience ;)

    April

    ps. I do skim the forums but not often... you asked in the right place anyway :) Daz forums, awesome community helpers here have collectively wide user experience vs a single content maker like me. :)
     

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,088

    @AprilYSH you are too modest!  I've been buying your wonderful hairs right back to Victoria 3 (remember Sylphiad Hair? one of my all-time favs!), so you have vast experience of designing and making hair models, which are the "Gold Standard".

  • AprilYSHAprilYSH Posts: 1,268

    Aww, thanks Phil! Means a lot coming from you, long time strand hair expert cool It's been just over a year since you translated from Carrara to DS hair, what are your thoughts on it after this time?  My feelings on it are like a roller coaster ride, need to get them down in words heh :) 

    BTW in case you didn't see already your latest was just released in store! https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-lynette-hair-for-genesis-8-females nice! yes

  • What's the best (simplest-but-effective) way to style dForce hair (strand based), for those of us who are not PAs?

    I want to get the long hair to (a) form more of a curve or v-shape down the back, instead of an inverted-u, for example, and also to achieve a sort of under-curl at the ends. Taking a cue from some of PhilW's products (with face-shields and ear guards, I've tried creating a primitive and now even using a combination of primitive-plus-wind-node but the most I have been able to achieve is to have the har curve round the upper roll of a primitive but then still fall in a ragged sheet.

    Is there a surface setting that can make the hair less "stiff"? I'm not affraid to fiddle with dForce and even hair seed settings, and have been able to achieve a variety of results with such tweeks, but I haven't managed to figure out a good way to use dForce to effectively style how it falls or cascades to create the styling effect I'm trying to achieve.

  • PorphyrogenitusPorphyrogenitus Posts: 61
    edited August 2020

    Someone may have already mentioned this but I had a hard time sifting the chaff of all the complaining about dForce Hair being unavailable to end-users from the wheat of tips, ideas, and tutorials. So if someone already did bring this up, I apologize:

    Fiddling with interpolation segment length, pitch, roll, yaw angles, and random angle seed I've found can do a lot to give the dForce hair products a variety of different looks from the default. I particularly wanted to move away from either (a) frizz settings and also (b) having the hair fall in a straight "sheet."

    I still haven't figured out how to make the ends curve or curl a bit (with any easily controlable method; using self-created primitives so far is at best "mixed results" and hasn't yet worked out how I wanted). But the attached pictures show some of what you can do. I used PhilW's "Full Fringed Hair" and changed the interpolation segment lengths, pitch angle, roll angle, yaw angle, and random angle seeding for both the "PS" and "PR" settings on the side surfaces and back surface. The fringe didn't seem to want to "cooperate" with the direction I wanted the angles to take, so I left all the settings for that surface at their default. For the attached pictures I used somewhat high angles but they could be toned down (or increased further) for different levels of modification to the basic shape of the hair.

    Suggestion/tip for PAs selling dForce hair: Some DAZ PAs often include short mini-tutorials for their products. It might be helpful for us end-users if dForce Hair products came with mini-manuals on what changing these settings can do.

    EDIT: "Not Okay" refers to the area of the pic that isn't okay to see - it does not refer to the hair product, which is a very good one and better than okay.

     

    Hair Test Side.jpg
    1018 x 881 - 203K
    Hair Test Back.jpg
    1018 x 881 - 219K
    Post edited by Porphyrogenitus on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633

    Taken me long enough to get around using the Strand based Hair. No issue with using it having played with Garibaldi some years ago,

    However it is the shader that is casing me issues. Cab some kind soul help me get this figured out?

    First image of the light coat has no hair, just maps. The darker one has hair and has the same texture maps as the first. I have spent some considerable hours already trying to get my head around this. I even tried a lightened coat map to see it that was the issue and it wasn't. 

     

    PS I am not bothered with the quality of the hair as that will be redone properly. If I can't figure out the shader then no point in bothering with new hair.

    dear hair no.jpg
    951 x 893 - 511K
    dear hair.jpg
    951 x 893 - 545K
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 29,248
    Szark said:

    Taken me long enough to get around using the Strand based Hair. No issue with using it having played with Garibaldi some years ago,

    However it is the shader that is casing me issues. Cab some kind soul help me get this figured out?

    First image of the light coat has no hair, just maps. The darker one has hair and has the same texture maps as the first. I have spent some considerable hours already trying to get my head around this. I even tried a lightened coat map to see it that was the issue and it wasn't. 

     

    PS I am not bothered with the quality of the hair as that will be redone properly. If I can't figure out the shader then no point in bothering with new hair.

    it has a dedicated blended dual lobe shader that can use the textures as a pelt for iray and a plain one for 3Delight

    under shader presets strandbased hair

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633

    yep that is the shader I am refering to Wendy. I should have said my bad.

    I got a little better with adjusting the shader but still way too dark. Got to be the colour maps??

    dear hair 2.jpg
    951 x 893 - 426K
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 29,248

    maybe, might need to do some image editing on them

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633

    Yeah getting close to what I think is close to real as in colour terms. A lot of back and forth from DS to PS. Now to make some hair control maps and I get get to work. The shader isn't too bad to figure out. I was so used to Garibaldi giving me what I would expect. Just nother learning curve.

    dear hair 6.jpg
    951 x 893 - 451K
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 14,653
    Szark said:

    Taken me long enough to get around using the Strand based Hair. No issue with using it having played with Garibaldi some years ago,

    However it is the shader that is casing me issues. Cab some kind soul help me get this figured out?

    First image of the light coat has no hair, just maps. The darker one has hair and has the same texture maps as the first. I have spent some considerable hours already trying to get my head around this. I even tried a lightened coat map to see it that was the issue and it wasn't. 

     

    PS I am not bothered with the quality of the hair as that will be redone properly. If I can't figure out the shader then no point in bothering with new hair.

    That is the exact problem I have and I've spent hours trying to get the SBH shaders to created a SBH fascimile of the fur as colored by the original shader materials to no avail. I have another ideal on how to do that but I won't share it here until I actually try it out & see if it works since nothing I've tried so far does work. 

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 14,653
    edited October 2020
    Szark said:

    Yeah getting close to what I think is close to real as in colour terms. A lot of back and forth from DS to PS. Now to make some hair control maps and I get get to work. The shader isn't too bad to figure out. I was so used to Garibaldi giving me what I would expect. Just nother learning curve.

    I'm guessing you brightened the hue to be nearly white for those original texture maps contrary to what one would expect to need to do?

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited October 2020

    sorry about that nonesuch, no notifications and yes the Star is yellow.

    Anyhoo yes had to lighten and saturate, to keep some colour info (Ctrl + U in Photoshop). The root map I used the same in all slots same for the Tip which is a very very light map, a lot lighter that you think.

     

    I found this nugget of info that confirmed I was on the right track but not completely. I find it amazing how this post was ignored and yet so helpful, thx @Kerwin

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/326996/dforce-hair-as-well-as-strand-based-hair-and-the-strand-based-hair-editor-in-public-beta/p22

    I still can't figure out how to get the fur texture to match the dog's texture using the "Iray Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader".  It seems to always come out too dark. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    When comparing a painted texture to generated hairs/fibers, it's best to remember that that realistic fibers both transmit and reflect color in addition to specularity.   Since hairs/fibers overlay and combine to obstruct transmitted light that moves through the fibers as well as bounce off.   When several fibers pile together, they will make a darker color because they will block more light moving through them.   Think about what happens if you pile several layers of lightly shaded glass on top of each other--the appearance will become progressively darker with each pane of glass piled on top of the other.  Also, the skin of animals (when their fur is shaved off or molted) is not always the same color as the fur, often a lighter color (though polar bears have black skin under their white fur,)   The setting in the iray shader set the propertes of an "average hair" at a paticular position which will be cloned with varation and piled with other hairs.  To get the right color, I would lighten the animal's skin color and then work with a lighter texture for the transmitted color of the hairs which will combine to form darker clusters of hair.   

    When starting with a 2d color map for a non-fiber model, I usually take the base 2D textures, blur them and then lighten them to serve as guide colors for the tansmission and reflection of the hairs in the hair shading node.  I'll make the underlying skin a lighter and de-saturated version of the fur colors as a starting point.   It takes some experimentation to get the right mix of settings to get the right final colors, but the results will usually become more realistic.   You may also need to fiddle with the thickness of hairs to see the right level of light transmission al the edges of the model.

    HTH,

    -K

    All in all it is a huge amount of work to get it to this stage. Bear in mind that I got Garibaldi when it first came out so this new incarnation was like putting on a pair of comfy shoes. I used for Stand Based hairs, one for the body, ears, belly and neck. Made greyscale control maps to control fur length and where the clumping happens more. 3 full 8 hours days to get it here.

     

    I did mess with the base coat texture map and lightened where to fur would go. Any exposed areas like the muzzle and inner ears had to be masked so they retained to original saturation and darkness.

    I only went for 35 hairs per CM for the body. Didn't do much combing just the curve and attract functions.

    As for the shader once you get the hair right then the gloss settings work better. I have GTX 1080 ti and I can preview that amount of hair whilst fiddlings with the shader. If need I can screen grab my settings.

     

    Hope that helps

    hair7.jpg
    1200 x 1129 - 793K
    Post edited by Szark on
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 14,653
    Szark said:

    sorry about that nonesuch, no notifications and yes the Star is yellow.

    Anyhoo yes had to lighten and saturate, to keep some colour info (Ctrl + U in Photoshop). The root map I used the same in all slots same for the Tip which is a very very light map, a lot lighter that you think.

     

    I found this nugget of info that confirmed I was on the right track but not completely. I find it amazing how this post was ignored and yet so helpful, thx @Kerwin

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/326996/dforce-hair-as-well-as-strand-based-hair-and-the-strand-based-hair-editor-in-public-beta/p22

    I still can't figure out how to get the fur texture to match the dog's texture using the "Iray Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader".  It seems to always come out too dark. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    When comparing a painted texture to generated hairs/fibers, it's best to remember that that realistic fibers both transmit and reflect color in addition to specularity.   Since hairs/fibers overlay and combine to obstruct transmitted light that moves through the fibers as well as bounce off.   When several fibers pile together, they will make a darker color because they will block more light moving through them.   Think about what happens if you pile several layers of lightly shaded glass on top of each other--the appearance will become progressively darker with each pane of glass piled on top of the other.  Also, the skin of animals (when their fur is shaved off or molted) is not always the same color as the fur, often a lighter color (though polar bears have black skin under their white fur,)   The setting in the iray shader set the propertes of an "average hair" at a paticular position which will be cloned with varation and piled with other hairs.  To get the right color, I would lighten the animal's skin color and then work with a lighter texture for the transmitted color of the hairs which will combine to form darker clusters of hair.   

    When starting with a 2d color map for a non-fiber model, I usually take the base 2D textures, blur them and then lighten them to serve as guide colors for the tansmission and reflection of the hairs in the hair shading node.  I'll make the underlying skin a lighter and de-saturated version of the fur colors as a starting point.   It takes some experimentation to get the right mix of settings to get the right final colors, but the results will usually become more realistic.   You may also need to fiddle with the thickness of hairs to see the right level of light transmission al the edges of the model.

    HTH,

    -K

    All in all it is a huge amount of work to get it to this stage. Bear in mind that I got Garibaldi when it first came out so this new incarnation was like putting on a pair of comfy shoes. I used for Stand Based hairs, one for the body, ears, belly and neck. Made greyscale control maps to control fur length and where the clumping happens more. 3 full 8 hours days to get it here.

     

    I did mess with the base coat texture map and lightened where to fur would go. Any exposed areas like the muzzle and inner ears had to be masked so they retained to original saturation and darkness.

    I only went for 35 hairs per CM for the body. Didn't do much combing just the curve and attract functions.

    As for the shader once you get the hair right then the gloss settings work better. I have GTX 1080 ti and I can preview that amount of hair whilst fiddlings with the shader. If need I can screen grab my settings.

     

    Hope that helps

    Totally awesome thanks!

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633

    I am still not getting any notifications and I also noticed when I open this thread it isn't a secure page.

    Cool. Have fun.

     

    I just threw in some green to help me gauge the colour of the fur. I think I am happy to tweak a little more and throw him n a scene. Oh I got the Antler Pack so much better. but again I had to mess with the diffuse to get a better match to the real thing. I know I am picky.

    dear hair final2.jpg
    1200 x 1129 - 1M
  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 29,248

    there is probably an embeded image or sigline link causing the unsecure status 

    (mine all Youtube so hopefully not it)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,002
    Szark said:

    sorry about that nonesuch, no notifications and yes the Star is yellow.

    Anyhoo yes had to lighten and saturate, to keep some colour info (Ctrl + U in Photoshop). The root map I used the same in all slots same for the Tip which is a very very light map, a lot lighter that you think.

     

    I found this nugget of info that confirmed I was on the right track but not completely. I find it amazing how this post was ignored and yet so helpful, thx @Kerwin

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/326996/dforce-hair-as-well-as-strand-based-hair-and-the-strand-based-hair-editor-in-public-beta/p22

    I still can't figure out how to get the fur texture to match the dog's texture using the "Iray Blended Dual Lobe Hair Shader".  It seems to always come out too dark. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    When comparing a painted texture to generated hairs/fibers, it's best to remember that that realistic fibers both transmit and reflect color in addition to specularity.   Since hairs/fibers overlay and combine to obstruct transmitted light that moves through the fibers as well as bounce off.   When several fibers pile together, they will make a darker color because they will block more light moving through them.   Think about what happens if you pile several layers of lightly shaded glass on top of each other--the appearance will become progressively darker with each pane of glass piled on top of the other.  Also, the skin of animals (when their fur is shaved off or molted) is not always the same color as the fur, often a lighter color (though polar bears have black skin under their white fur,)   The setting in the iray shader set the propertes of an "average hair" at a paticular position which will be cloned with varation and piled with other hairs.  To get the right color, I would lighten the animal's skin color and then work with a lighter texture for the transmitted color of the hairs which will combine to form darker clusters of hair.   

    When starting with a 2d color map for a non-fiber model, I usually take the base 2D textures, blur them and then lighten them to serve as guide colors for the tansmission and reflection of the hairs in the hair shading node.  I'll make the underlying skin a lighter and de-saturated version of the fur colors as a starting point.   It takes some experimentation to get the right mix of settings to get the right final colors, but the results will usually become more realistic.   You may also need to fiddle with the thickness of hairs to see the right level of light transmission al the edges of the model.

    HTH,

    -K

    All in all it is a huge amount of work to get it to this stage. Bear in mind that I got Garibaldi when it first came out so this new incarnation was like putting on a pair of comfy shoes. I used for Stand Based hairs, one for the body, ears, belly and neck. Made greyscale control maps to control fur length and where the clumping happens more. 3 full 8 hours days to get it here.

     

    I did mess with the base coat texture map and lightened where to fur would go. Any exposed areas like the muzzle and inner ears had to be masked so they retained to original saturation and darkness.

    I only went for 35 hairs per CM for the body. Didn't do much combing just the curve and attract functions.

    As for the shader once you get the hair right then the gloss settings work better. I have GTX 1080 ti and I can preview that amount of hair whilst fiddlings with the shader. If need I can screen grab my settings.

     

    Hope that helps

    WOW! That looks AWESOME! Excellent work! I'd love to see what seeings you used here! (If you're up to sharing! If you don't want to, that's totally understandable.) You did an incredible job on the hair, it looks SO GOOD!

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633

    yeah when I get a moment I will take a screengrab no problem.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 14,653
    Szark said:

    I am still not getting any notifications and I also noticed when I open this thread it isn't a secure page.

    Cool. Have fun.

     

    I just threw in some green to help me gauge the colour of the fur. I think I am happy to tweak a little more and throw him n a scene. Oh I got the Antler Pack so much better. but again I had to mess with the diffuse to get a better match to the real thing. I know I am picky.

    I stopped subscribing to threads in the forums long again as I hardly even got the notifications regarding replies either.

    Too bad the styling and parameter ranges in SBH isn't enough for us to make our own horns, feathers, and scales.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,002
    Szark said:

    I am still not getting any notifications and I also noticed when I open this thread it isn't a secure page.

    Cool. Have fun.

     

    I just threw in some green to help me gauge the colour of the fur. I think I am happy to tweak a little more and throw him n a scene. Oh I got the Antler Pack so much better. but again I had to mess with the diffuse to get a better match to the real thing. I know I am picky.

    I stopped subscribing to threads in the forums long again as I hardly even got the notifications regarding replies either.

    Too bad the styling and parameter ranges in SBH isn't enough for us to make our own horns, feathers, and scales.

    I think you can - I could be wrong, but I THINK Oso3D may have done something with feathers and scales with SBH.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633

    I manage some spines in Garibaldi some time ago https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Brian-Posing-For-the-Camera-377347086 LOL

    Ok here are my surface settings. As you can see I totally relied on getting the maps right and just fiddled with the value settings once I got the maps right.

    Shader.jpg
    430 x 689 - 208K
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,002
    Szark said:

    I manage some spines in Garibaldi some time ago https://www.deviantart.com/itiseyemeeszark/art/Brian-Posing-For-the-Camera-377347086 LOL

    Ok here are my surface settings. As you can see I totally relied on getting the maps right and just fiddled with the value settings once I got the maps right.

    Thank you so much, @Szark ! It's very much appreciated! Your results are outstanding!

Sign In or Register to comment.