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Thanks for this. This is exactly the sort of information that I would think anyone would want to have answered before committing to a subscription agreement.
I get the impression that mangement told the web people "Hey, we are going live tomorrow, do a website thing". I feel sorry for the Tech Support folks, who have to bear the brunt of the feedback. They have always been very nice and helpful to me. Working with one person now to try to recover my original account.
Like everyone else, they are working on GPU rendering - looks like it will be a hybrid GPU/CPU like OCTANE (VUE 2016 had a early version, with the GPU doing antialiasing only). But, I have already invested in the surplus hardware to build a cheapo renderfarm (wish I could use it with IRAY), so that is not a strong driver for me at this point. They are putting out a video to explain the PB renderer soon, but the old VUE render engine does a great job now.
So, I am making no decisions until I get about two orders of magnitude more details than I have right now.
You gotta love DRM they are so worried about profits they are killing their own business. Just unlock stuff and be reasonable with prices. Have 2 tiers HomeUser and Pro. HomeUsers don't need big license just going to make art. Companies need rights to everything but don't want to pay. Most of the money comes from consumers. They need to go back to business school. ~ ~Oversimplifed but my 2cents worth
Eon only ever burnt me once
I bought a bunch of content for $50 years ago only to learn it was locked to just that version and that old computer
I never gave them another cent since
I honestly don't think they want to sell software and content
DAZ has grabbed about 20K from me since then
Do old login/password combinations work or is this a completely new setup?
Completely new - first thing you have to do is request a new password.
Thanks, appreciate the quick answer
But, it IS taken from your original email address for the previous site and you will see, at least, some of your licence keys.
thanks..i coulcn't find it
Hmm. I did buy both Vue Complete and Plant Factory Designer this year while the site was down (on sales, via via third party vendor). I wondered if I’d regret it when they came back. I don’t think I do. I do kind of regret dreaming of the Cornucopia store though.
Can't see how that is tempting. how long have you used DS? At $20 a month you will hit $600 in 2.5 years, surely you will be using it well past 2.5 years. This is why subscription models make no sense for my use. I haven't upgraded my version of Max in years because of this. I am all for companies doing what they can to try an fight piracy and to make money since that is why a company exists, but reasonable thinking needs to be invloved also.
Add me to the huge list of people who don't like subscriptions. I've even been procrastinating on getting a new health club membership because I don't want the monthly extraction being performed against my checking account.
i guess it depends on where you are in the production chain. Hobbyist, I doubt it is cost effective even a litttle bit. Perhaps a business would do it, plus a lot of their costs are tax deductible. i get upset when a company is putting out upgrades every 6 months for 50-100 a pop, let alone a sub for 20 a month.
DS is free, sort of. The assets get a bit expensinve if you're stuck in the buy a lot mode. Also changing version of figures, etc, changes a lot of stuff... not always backward compatible. but yoiu could put out pretty good artwork with just the figures that ocne with DS,,, jus tneed to become creative
I love subscriptions. Trying to save to buy a program a year from now? That's not going to happen.
And I never have the situation of 'I just bought the program... aaaannd there's an update. Dang it'
Man, for sole professional artists, I just don't get the mentality of accepting subscriptions. It's insane.
I used a suite for years--nail it down--dissect its features and uses, and then, only when I absolutely have to upgrade, I do so.
It makes no sense to spend 2-3 K over a decade only to end up with nothing at the end. A subscription is buying nothing. I will NEVER do it. Bravo to the people here with equal declarations.
I have been using Vue (always legally) since version 4. I have 4,6,7,8, 11. I DID save up to buy Vue this month, and I tried the same week that they moved to subscriptions (NO WARNING). E-on summarily BLOCKED my order from Novedge.
I actually tried the unthinkable: I thought maybe I could appeal to their better nature...I stayed up late enough to call the Paris E-on office, and I talked to their sales account guy, Hadrien. He was...absolutely dismissive of my plea. He looped me back to "just try our subscription" again and again. Borderline rude--but, honestly, that might be the french affect. The customer is evidently not always right in France...In fact, I'd say open hostility toward customers is fair game there. Jeezuz.
I used to have a positive opinion of E-on. I had them lumped in with cool companies like Pixologic, who have been nothing but generous with their upgrades and licensing.
I asked him point-blank: "Wouldn't E-on rather have 819.00 from me right now, to get one last forever license of 2016, than nothing forever?...Because I will never, ever do a subscription."
He said, "No."
I'm not wading into what E-on did or whavever, but this caught my eye.
That's totally your opinion.. however for me, it's not 'ending up with nothing'. It's using a tool for 10 years to generate income.. so you're buying that service.
Obviously you have to weigh it up.. if you spent 3k to make 4k over 10 years, then sure.. question it, but still. If you spend 3k to make 4k, in 3 months? That's business. Personally, the tools I use, and the money I invest in them (both hardware and software) generate far more than they cost, and are integral to the running of the business. .. but sometimes it's not just about buying stuff to own it, it's about furthering your own skills, opportunities and even worth to clients.
If you can continue to use the existing version you own, great.. if not, you either adapt or get left behind sadly.
In reality, the upgrades for Vue were heading upward anyway, so $20 a month forever is about the same price as upgrading every new release ... plus I would assume you're getting the whole enchilada instead of pieces..Like Vue regular, studio, complete, etc. Right now I have Studio 2016. If the new stuff is better, it wouldn't be a bad deal for me to get the newest, complete, plus plant factory ... $240 a year.
The website though is terrible, especially the features list. Hopefully they will have that updated and complete real soon. They also not answering their emails, at least to me.
I appreciate the way Allegorithmic does things, where you CAN buy, or subscribe, or subscribe and bank up to buy.
Personally, I prefer subscription, but I like most people getting to approach software their own way.
It makes quite a bit of sense to professionals actually. Same reason you might rent an office instead of buying a bulding. Once you leave that office, you have "nothing" too. But you did have an office when you needed it and you didn't have to come up with huge sums of money in advance.
Of course I'd rather own software licenses too. There's just something mentally preferable about owning stuff. But as a professional especially, it makes perfect sense to rent. Don't forget there was always a sort of rent aspect through maintenance fees, or even just downright buying updates over the years also adds up to potentially a lot more than you might have paid renting it for the same period.
I think the beef for most people is, not that it's not something a pro would do, but for a hobbyist it's like throwing money out the window ;)
Laurie
Depends on the hobbyist. Before I was a PA, I could rarely justify a big expense, putting $100+ down on a single program.
But a little bit every month was easier to budget, and I didn't have to sweat updates and such.
First off, please don't read any of my comments as combatative, as I don't believe minds can be changed [anywhere] online.
I am not a hobbyist. I am a 25 year, career illustrator with a bachelor's from a decent school, who has won several accolades and I am on my 87th children's book this month. I'm not being braggadocious--just who I am. I make my sole living through artwork, and I embraced 3D early on. I've been hanging out here (at this forum) a little more each year because DAZ has shaped up to be a great tool. I mean, the other day, I spent as much on a virtual button-up shirt as I might have a real, actual shirt (which is crazy), but I digress.
I use 7 software suites to achieve the results I want. I read reviews and tried trials for each iteration that was released, and I chose my upgrades carefully for each suite. Unless you were born with a rainbow shining out of your a$$, most illustrators could not afford 7 new monthly bills until they die. Studios and small companies, maybe, but what we are seeing is the end of an era where a lot of us early adopters, who forged these companies and spread the word, "Yes, these are good tools--these are what I use," etc., are getting dusted for greed reasons only. The next ten years are going to be a cycle where customers are abused and ghosted, as I was by E-on.
I think the mentality of "adapt or die" is the most laughable, as if by doing what a company tells you to do, you are a superior lifeform. My wife [also a professional artist through her day job] gets free access to Adobe CS Cloud, and she assumed it was going to be this great perk, but as a day-to-day tool (she really runs Illustrator through its paces) it has been the worst release she's ever used. Buggy and with lots of problems fixed later than sooner (we are talking a year later in some cases). So, scratch that notion. This is not about a company giving you great service, it's about training people that they don't need to ever own anything. The writing is on the wall. The next game systems are most likely going to be disk-less.
I only used Vue for one specific step in my process. I will "adapt" but it will be to replace that step as soon as I can. Adaptation is not about accepting the hostile environment, it's about using the environment to your advantage.
Everyone's situation is different. Professional can mean all kinds of things. You could be making a lot of money or very little, you're still a professional because you do make money with it. I won't deny that some companies may switch to rental to get around all kinds of problems, like having to actually deliver quality. I admit I rent Photoshop for 12 or so bucks a month and don't even give a damn what they do with new releases. I don't even know from the top of my head what's different in CC 2019. But I use it and it's dirt cheap, at that price I could rent it for what... 10 years before I'd be anywhere near what a perpetual license may have cost by now? And I got all updates along the way... that I apparently don't care about
but I might if some feature picks my interest. I do seem to remember CC 2018 got quite a bit snappier.
I will say I don't think rental is a good way to go for less important software like that of E-on. This could just be my own ignorance as I never used any of their stuff, but I do have a reaction of "who are you and why do you have the audacity of asking me to pay monthly for your irrelevant software". It makes more sense for the big boys that give us industry standard applications costing so much that rental is a great way to access it without breaking the bank. In the end everyone will vote with their wallet and these companies will inevitably get the message.
The other thing I like about subscription is that it lets me go 'well, in the past 4 months I've used this maybe once, so I'll stop' and I'm out $40 (or whatever) rather than a full $200+.
Or 'I need this every once in a while, so I'll subscribe once in a while to use it'
Having rental as an option is good for some users, it's when it's the only option that it becomes a problem.
Definitely, from a customer point of view the best thing would be a perpetual and a rental option. I'm not defending E-on at all, just pointing out that "Man, for sole professional artists, I just don't get the mentality of accepting subscriptions. It's insane. " is not all that insane.
As an aside, I really like Daz' model of 'core stuff is free, lots of free content you can use, encouraged to spend money.'
Agree 100%. That's why I appreciate that (even if I don't use it), Terragen is subscription AND perpetual for those that want to go that route. They will likely get money, support and customers that don't want to follow Vue down the rabbit hole (other than die-hard Vue users of course). Someday tho, I might want another landscape program and will be glad that Terragen gives me options (I stopped using Vue at version 4 for personal reasons).
Laurie
And now I am woefully confused! Just got another email a bit earlier today from bentley.com tellimg me I have been switched from my previous subscription plan (which I never had, they made for me without asking) to a new solution and I am to use the activation keys they have sent (they haven't) fpr .. something?.