The History of Carrara

135

Comments

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,941
    edited December 1969

    I do use my PA status to submit Carrara Advancement requests to the home office. They tell me that they are considering my pleads!

    It's very a good news Dart, you are our ambassador !

  • arcadyarcady Posts: 340
    edited December 1969

    I have a feeling that DAZ 3D has a DAZ Studio development team that is dedicated to DS, and then the Carrara development team is drawn from a few of those people, while the rest stay on with DS... but that's just a guess.

    If they keep their developers in house in Utah, this would not surprise me. Utah is not known as a tech hub - so hiring programmers would be slimmer pickings.

    Hopefully they have a development office in Tacoma/Seattle or Silicon Valley/San Francisco.

    Though the way Bryce has sat idle for so long makes me suspect it is because this is exactly what they lack.

  • ringo monfortringo monfort Posts: 927
    edited December 1969

    Dart,

    I agree with you, us Carrara PA are here to make things easier for the community and at the same time help promote Carrara. This in turn will help drive up sales and this will help with the Development of Carrara.

    Like you mention Carrara has plenty of powerful features that allow users from hobbyists to Professionals created amazing images, animations etc.

    Here is my suggestions to DAZ 3D:

    Make Carrara the DAZ 3D all in one solutions for Content Development.
    This means don't just make it load and animate DAZ 3D figures such as Victoria but develop Carrara so that any user can create a Victoria in Carrara. From modeling, rigging, texturing, morph creating... everything.
    This means put all of Hexagon in Carrara and all of the DAZ Studio features in Carrara.
    Improved the 3D Painting to the level that PA will use it.
    Let all PA learn and use Carrara for Content development.
    Promote Carrara in other venues that will bring in more high-end users that will also create more content.
    It would be a win win for DAZ 3D and the community.

    Ringo Monfort


    Very cool stuff, Ringo.
    When I was beta testing for 8 and 8.5 Pro, Pierre behaved much the same way. If there was something that needed to be fixed or added, he tried his damnedest to get it fixed or added. A lot went on in those two upgrades - but there doesn't seem to be such an active development team striving upon it every day anymore. I have a feeling that DAZ 3D has a DAZ Studio development team that is dedicated to DS, and then the Carrara development team is drawn from a few of those people, while the rest stay on with DS... but that's just a guess.

    When I began the "EnvironKits" line of products, it was an attempt to show the 3D community how easily and quickly we can build stages and full scenes in Carrara - incredible compared to Poser and DS, as well as any other 3D software, in my honest opinion!

    So I'm trying to use Carrara-specific products to draw more interest towards Carrara to drive up Carrara sales. Not from a greedy aspect (as you can tell by the value/price ratio of E-Kits), but from a "Carrara needs to be seen and used!" aspect! I truly feel that most Poser users would find a much nicer home in Carrara. And for those true to Poser, Poser and Carrara work extremely well side-by-side. Now... the same applies to Carrara and DS almost as much!

    We Carrara PAs must continue to make really cool stuff for users to get the most out of Carrara with easy-to-use presets. Carrara purists already know how beautiful Carrara is. We need to up the sales of Carrara itself, and draw full-time development back into Carrara!

    The thing is, what Eovia and DAZ 3D have already done with Carrara is so wonderful that, even with its current lack of active development, Carrara is still the best darned software for Home Movie Makers/Web Developers. And it's still incredibly low priced!

    I hope that DAZ 3D decides to place full time attention to active Carrara development. I'd rather see that that to have it leave to another author, just because I like the attention to compatibility between Carrara and DS and Poser - which is truly what helps to set Carrara apart from anything else on the market. But even if one doesn't use "Content", Carrara is still packed to the hilt with the finest combination of imagination realization tools... Anywhere!

  • arcadyarcady Posts: 340
    edited August 2014

    Daz Studio should more or less be the assembly room of Carrara and vice versa - and then also a version of the shader and rendering rooms.

    Standardize the codebase between them to the point that Carrara resembles an advanced version of Daz, or Daz a cropped version of Carrara.
    - Upsell potential there is obvious: Now that you've tried the free version (Daz), learn how to make the content yourself with the "advanced / modelers / pro / something" version (Carrara).

    Hexagon... should then just be absorbed right into Carrara - merge the features of the two into a new modeling room, and then there is potential to make 'Hexagon' a plugin to Daz Studio or stand-alone app - but the three applications should merge into one family.

    This however begs a critical question - the role of Bryce in the same picture.

    Daz has a bit of an internal application conflict.

    Bryce: great environmental building / rendering app
    Hexagon: great modeling app
    Daz Studio: great assembly and rendering app.
    Carrara: great environmental building, modeling, assembly, and rendering app.

    - The applications compete with each other.

    It would take a company with the resources of a Silicon Valley startup to sort through that and merge codebases into a logical suite of applications.

    BUT doing so might make things look a bit Vue like around here: get the free version, but then to do anything you need all these other plugins...
    (I realize Daz Studio is already like that, but its free version actually suits is marketed purpose well, while Vue's free version looks a bit like adware who's only purpose it to make you realize you don't have what you needed...)


    Its also worth noting that when I bought Vue 3 De'sprit it was a hobbyist application that had surprising powerful potential but needed work to become a high end app.
    People saw that and suggested they do that work. So it did... and now its started getting exclusive and tries to get people who would be buying Maya or 3DS Max to also get it, and just throws us hobbyists a bone to act as a feeder channel...
    - Having the high end customers arrive can be a curse to the low end people that got you there... I work about 5 blocks from Pixar, and I'm very glad the people who work there don't consider my 'toy' a real 3D program... if they did, I'd be priced right out of this hobby (and then Daz would get bought out or something because money really does grow on the trees inside their walled compound)...

    Post edited by arcady on
  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,775
    edited August 2014

    Dart,

    I agree with you, us Carrara PA are here to make things easier for the community and at the same time help promote Carrara. This in turn will help drive up sales and this will help with the Development of Carrara.

    Like you mention Carrara has plenty of powerful features that allow users from hobbyists to Professionals created amazing images, animations etc.

    Here is my suggestions to DAZ 3D:

    Make Carrara the DAZ 3D all in one solutions for Content Development.
    This means don't just make it load and animate DAZ 3D figures such as Victoria but develop Carrara so that any user can create a Victoria in Carrara. From modeling, rigging, texturing, morph creating... everything.
    This means put all of Hexagon in Carrara and all of the DAZ Studio features in Carrara.
    Improved the 3D Painting to the level that PA will use it.
    Let all PA learn and use Carrara for Content development.
    Promote Carrara in other venues that will bring in more high-end users that will also create more content.
    It would be a win win for DAZ 3D and the community.

    Ringo Monfort

    There's just one itsy-bitsy gigantically huge problem with this ideal. The spin is somewhat of a lie. It is my opinion that the people behind the scenes at Daz dont actually use the software they sell, aside from Daz Studio.

    Why should Daz expect people to build content in Carrara when they themselves don't even use Carrara for building content? Was Genesis modeled in Hexagon or Carrara? Nope. Have ANY of the figures sold here been created in Carrara or Hexagon? Do you ever see Carrara landscapes or Bryce landscapes rendered by any of the Daz staff other than moderators who arent even staff members? Even when they have the preview threads about new characters in the Commons or Members Only, do you often see sample renders made in Bryce or in Hexagon? No. Do you see Daz making an effort to promote PA's who actively utilize Daz software for making content? No. Does Stonemason use Carrara for his models....doubt it. Does Mec4D use any Daz software for creating her amazing content? Probably not. In fact, can anyone name a single PA who exclusively uses Daz3d applications solely for creating content that will eventually be sold?

    We the community members are the only ones using these applications. It would not surprise me if many of the executives haven't ever opened Bryce or Hexagon scenes. Have never ever ever used Carrara.

    Many of these people have formal training and in school they dont teach Carrara, they teach Maya, Lightwave etc.....

    Lack of development tells me all I need to know about how often they themselves choose their own applications for accomplishing real work. Let's be honest, if you use Carrara every day then the bugs will annoy you and you will want to fix them. Lack of cloth in Carrara would annoy you too. Lack of genuine Genesis support would truly annoy you.

    If you use Bryce you know how badly it needs to be 64 bit. You know how badly it needs another development cycle to fix the yet underdeveloped instancing and broken tree mesh export. Hexagon could use some major stability upgrades. If you used these applications often enough, you would know quite well what is needed to improve the applications. And again I state the annoyance one would experience from regular use of the applications would be catalyzing enough that development would never cease as it tends to do around here.

    It seems to me the only real requirement for working at Daz3d is that you familiarize yourself with Daz Studio. Period. The others are optional. That is a very big problem.

    I conclude by reiterating that what Daz has yet to do is to PROVE that Carrara really can be the all in one solution. They're all such experts with Cinema 4D, Maya, Lightwave, 3DSMax, you name it and they use it. But many of them know next to nothing about using any of the daz software aside from Daz Studio itself .

    I hope I am wrong about this, I just doubt it very much. This is the Daz Studio show, the rest of the applications are supporting cast members at best. There is nothing wrong with that, so long as we all know what we are really dealing with here.

    Moderators: If this post is offensive or breaks TOS rules in any way please let me know and I will remove it promptly.

    Post edited by Rashad Carter on
  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,570
    edited December 1969

    I am going to blindly choose to believe that the reason we haven't seen C9 yet is because Daz have been beavering away behind the scenes implementing Ringo's excellent suggestions. But I suspect that Rashad has the truth of it.

    Still, I'm ever optimistic of seeing flying pigs... ;)

  • de3ande3an Posts: 910
    edited December 1969

    Tim_A said:
    Still, I'm ever optimistic of seeing flying pigs... ;)

    Someone call for a flying pig? :cheese:

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  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,570
    edited December 1969

    lol, but is it the Pig of Proof...?

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 16,780
    edited August 2014


    There's just one itsy-bitsy gigantically huge problem with this ideal. The spin is somewhat of a lie. It is my opinion that the people behind the scenes at Daz dont actually use the software they sell, aside from Daz Studio.Not really a lie... well, actually... not a lie at all.
    Nowhere do they state that you should buy Carrara because they use it. However, I do know that a lot more people than you'd think at DAZ 3D, even those whom have nothing to do with content or software creation, have used Carrara and find it to be pretty cool.
    But either way, who really cares if DAZ 3D officials use Carrara? "I" want to use Carrara.
    Those assigned to work on the development of Carrara know Carrara quite well - inside and out.
    Those assigned to Test my Products at DAZ 3D all are quite well-versed in Carrara. They'll even notice if some objects modifiers have slightly different values than others that look to be similar, and will ask the PA if this is intentional. They'll invite smoothing on something that doesn't have it, etc., even if our answer is "no". But I can tell when communicating with these folks that they certainly know how to use Carrara. My boss at DAZ 3D really doesn't have to touch Carrara. But he does, and he loves it!

    Why should Daz expect people to build content in Carrara when they themselves don't even use Carrara for building content? Was Genesis modeled in Hexagon or Carrara? Nope.
    A - because it's incredibly fun, efficient, full-powered, and since Carrara 8.5 works very well for making additional figures that work beautifully with their DAZ Studio Pro Content Creation System.

    B - to further place Carrara onto the 3D platform map, where it belongs... not hiding behind a blind-spot.

    C - because they know at least hundreds of artists, professional and casual, whom use Carrara as their main 3D Application. After all, the company that sells Carrara knows best how many registered users they have.

    D - it's incredibly Fun!

    Have ANY of the figures sold here been created in Carrara or Hexagon?

    Hard to say, because Carrara and Hexagon can output OBJs with just as high of quality as the most expensive piece of software available. DAZ 3D has no restriction, suggestions, or preferences as to which tools we use - they just want high quality work.

    Do you ever see Carrara landscapes or Bryce landscapes rendered by any of the Daz staff other than moderators who arent even staff members? Even when they have the preview threads about new characters in the Commons or Members Only, do you often see sample renders made in Bryce or in Hexagon? No. Do you see Daz making an effort to promote PA's who actively utilize Daz software for making content? No. Does Stonemason use Carrara for his models....doubt it. Does Mec4D use any Daz software for creating her amazing content? Probably not.


    Yes I have, and do. DAZ 3D employees and published artists are quite excellent with Carrara - some of them. And why not? It's got to be the absolute easiest 3d application to learn anywhere!

    Here is a cool Carrara animation that Mec4D did. One of the first things she's ever done with Carrara, as she almost never uses it. But that still doesn't really mean anything as to why DAZ 3D should consider developing Carrara, except for the fact that someone can turn it on, quickly set up a camera movement on a simple-to-make scene, and render it out on a mediocre system - but even better on a good one!

    The fact that Stonemason included an complete set of Carrara shaders for This Product is testament that Stephan at least considers the idea of using Carrara, if not for himself, for his customers.


    In fact, can anyone name a single PA who exclusively uses Daz3d applications solely for creating content that will eventually be sold?Ringo Monfort
    Dartanbeck
    Howie Farkes
    Phil Wilkes
    Dimension Theory
    GKDantas
    Magaremoto
    Orestes Graphics
    Age of Armour
    3DLust
    mmoir
    drawbridgep (Philip Drawbridge)

    + others, as well as some future DAZ PAs that are currently working on their products.

    I've said this countless times before:
    Carrara is incredibly capable, quite easy to learn, comparatively speaking, and is enormously feature-rich with tools, features, example content, and that DAZ 3D is ALWAYS on the lookout for new talent!
    YOU can become a DAZ 3D PA using Carrara, quite easily.
    Here's how:

    1 - Make some scenes in Carrara - get to know the interface and the tools

    2 - work on original assets that you can call your own - even if you use the presets to help you get there

    3 - come up with an idea that you think other people might be interested in buying

    4 - Go to DAZ 3D's helpful and inviting Publishing Documentation and look into the types of files and submission guidelines (and ideas) presented there - nobody like to have their time wasted by stuff that just isn't prepared properly.

    5 - When you're ready, and would like to present your idea, the above link has a contact link that will get you in touch with whom will become your new DAZ 3D agent if you're accepted as a DAZ 3D published artist.

    I can think of no better 3D application that I'd like to represent and back up with proof that it's the brilliant app for everyone interested in getting involved in the realms of 3d!

    Here's a quick example shot of nothing in particular that I just made as I typed this post. I loaded a preset from my EnvironKits - Badlands product, which is not only made directly in Carrara, it is made up of only Carrara assets, with the exception of several texture maps included in the shaders, so they load amazingly fast, even though they provide a complete 3d 360 degree scene massive enough to use as a film stage for nearly any project. All of the items provided in any of my Carrara kits are easy to make in Carrara. Why buy them then? Because they offer immediate backgrounds with complete, well-thought-out lighting and camera solutions, effects, and render quickly.

    To get the lighting on the cliffs like that - I just selected the sun light and rotated it around to the direction and altitude angle that I needed, which is so easy to do in Carrara!
    For added effect on the weird glass thingy that I quickly sculpted from a 3d cube, I cranked up the artificial indirect lighting rig's lights and gave them some saturated color. I also grabbed all of the terrain and moved it closer and rotated it around to get my creation into the pit that it's in. Finally I added the vertex object (Glass Thingy) to the Focus Group for POP lighting. But I could also have turned of the Fake GI rig altogether and just used the sun light and Carrara's cool global illumination system. But I like tinkering too much to do that!

    I cranked open my collection of Ringo's Digital Painter's Shaders and toss a few onto my object, duplicated on of the volumetric clouds and spun it into place and, for added kicks, since I turned up the reflectivity of the glass shaders a bit, I turned on Caustics and shot the render at the otherwise simple and fast default render settings that ship with Badlands. The whole scene, including render time, modeling, tweaking, and thinking up what I wanted to do took a little over an hour and a half - and it was quite fun, I assure you.

    I cannot think of another 3d software application that is quite as fun as well as being so dog-gone limitless in what you can use it to create! Cripeman just put up another video talking about just good ol' fonts! I was planning a video tutorial on that aspect as well. If you know how to collect fonts (or not) you can make complex models simply using the text modeler!

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    Post edited by Dartanbeck on
  • JonstarkJonstark Posts: 2,402
    edited December 1969

    Dart you should check out some of Rashad's Bryce renders in the recent Common's thread 'Carrara vs Vue vs Bryce vs ?' http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/44348/P75

    Many of which are frankly quite stellar, and made me rethink some of the limitations of Bryce. The middle render is actually nearly Howie Farkes level of brilliant, imo, and I wanted to venture that if Rashad wanted to become a Daz PA and get a little extra scratch, I think he could certainly become a Bryce PA, making environment scenes for Bryce similar to what Howie and mmoir do for Carrara (I hope you'll take it as a compliment Rashad, because I think you are very talented indeed, and a casual search of for-sale Bryce scenes in the daz marketplace seems to demonstrate you certainly are as talented in environment creation as any of the current Bryce PAs that do that kind of stuff). The downside would be at a guess that the Bryce PA potential market is probably the smallest of the bunch, aside from the Hexagon PA market (is there such a thing as a Hexagon PA, I wonder? :) )

    postscript: I couldn't resist checking to see if there is such a thing as a Hex PA. Turns out there sure is. Mostly it's people making for-sale videos/manuals of how to use/learn Hex. :)

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 16,780
    edited December 1969


    Many of these people have formal training and in school they dont teach Carrara, they teach Maya, Lightwave etc.....
    ...then all of those people will be thrilled to see what Carrara has to offer! Carrara is very nicely set up to work well without formal training. From the very detailed manual to the easy-to-understand interface to the wonderfully useful presets and scene wizards - Carrara rocks as a 'learn-as-you-play' software!

    Lack of development tells me all I need to know about how often they themselves choose their own applications for accomplishing real work....and why not? They 'sell' the others, while they've "Made" DAZ Studio, and I think that they can rejoice at what they've accomplished! They've got some really talented people working on it constantly now!

    Let's be honest, if you use Carrara every day then the bugs will annoy you and you will want to fix them. Lack of cloth in Carrara would annoy you too. Lack of genuine Genesis support would truly annoy you.Honestly? Nope. I'm not at all annoyed. I can get Genesis 1 and 2 figures working really well in 8.5 Pro. Love it!
    I'm still not entirely convinced that we cannot simulate cloth if we really have that desire. With enough patience and ingenuity as well as Carrara's ability to composite over its own renders, I've seen some Carrara artists that can truly get any effect they need created, and looking great!
    But that doesn't annoy me either.

    If you use Bryce you know how badly it needs to be 64 bit. You know how badly it needs another development cycle to fix the yet underdeveloped instancing and broken tree mesh export. Hexagon could use some major stability upgrades. If you used these applications often enough, you would know quite well what is needed to improve the applications. And again I state the annoyance one would experience from regular use of the applications would be catalyzing enough that development would never cease as it tends to do around here.
    Bryce, Carrara, Hexagon, and other apps sold here are at least currently saved from extinction - and that's huge for a community of fans whom still want to use, and get new people using, the software. Just because DAZ 3D hasn't released anything yet, doesn't mean that they'll be tucking it in forever.

    It seems to me the only real requirement for working at Daz3d is that you familiarize yourself with Daz Studio. Period. The others are optional. That is a very big problem.

    Nope. Pretty much everyone at DAZ 3D knows that I am fairly DAZ Studio illiterate! LOL
    They do, however, require that they feel comfortable selling what you're asking them to. I wasn't sure how they'd feel about publishing another Carrara-specific artist. They were pleased to have me join their team, and have been wonderful and supportive as long as I've been here! I Love DAZ 3D!

    I conclude by reiterating that what Daz has yet to do is to PROVE that Carrara really can be the all in one solution. They're all such experts with Cinema 4D, Maya, Lightwave, 3DSMax, you name it and they use it. But many of them know next to nothing about using any of the daz software aside from Daz Studio itself .The thing is, when it comes to 3D modeling, DAZ 3D doesn't (nor should they) care what software you use to bring your imagination alive to your customers. If one tool has something about it that makes you feel more comfortable, for whatever reason, please use that! DAZ 3D might make one helluva fine 3d art solution app, and sell a few more... they are a 3D Content business... a Digital Art Zone. If you can find other ways to use their content, not using DAZ Studio at all... that's fine with them! With all of the new advances they've made to create Genesis, they've had to make a whole new DAZ Studio to run it. It's very advanced, and very cool... and a pleasure to work with. The whole Triax system is really slick! Even so, they still keep their legacy figures around for those whom prefer to go that route. They really want people to shop at their store, and become accustomed to returning for more. More what? That doesn't matter. There's nothing wrong with that, as far as I can see.

    I hope I am wrong about this, I just doubt it very much. This is the Daz Studio show, the rest of the applications are supporting cast members at best. There is nothing wrong with that, so long as we all know what we are really dealing with here.I am sorry to report that you're not entirely wrong on this one... if that upsets you. It kind of IS the DAZ Studio show.
    DAZ is quite proud of the brilliant work they've been putting into their signature brand. They have really, really good reason to be that proud... and really should continue developing it. Who knows, it may even become better than Carrara eventually. If that happens, let them do it! They know what we like about Carrara. At least the software development team and most of the marketing staff knows. Carrara, Bryce, and Hexagon truly are secondary to DAZ Studio right now on the development cycle. But that doesn't mean that DAZ 3D won't all of a sudden decide to bring on a bunch of new interns to be placed under those whom have already rebuilt Carrara from the ground up to bring it to 64 bit with DUF compatibility.

    I'm certainly not trying to sound like I'm arguing with everything you had to say in this post... even though I am. I really am glad that you bring this stuff up, because it really does need to be talked about. I think that we, as a community, should organize our own Carrara Online Convention where we work together without a rigid, hassling schedule, but more of a free will submission regarding how we should handle telling DAZ 3D how much we would appreciate further Carrara development. Put together a whole bunch of stuff and send it to them. It doesn't have to be all at once. It doesn't have to be internet only. Print up some letters and send them. Put together ideas on why Carrara can and will benefit DAZ 3D. DAZ 3D is made up of some really cool people. I don't know who actually runs it or signs the checks (for the people that sign most of the checks), but that doesn't really matter. I have already started working on some stuff on my end, and DAZ knows this. They've never told me to stop annoying them. As a matter of fact, they're always quite welcoming! But perhaps that's because I treat them with polite respect that I feel they deserve.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 16,780
    edited December 1969

    Jonstark said:
    Dart you should check out some of Rashad's Bryce renders in the recent Common's thread 'Carrara vs Vue vs Bryce vs ?' http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/44348/P75

    Many of which are frankly quite stellar, and made me rethink some of the limitations of Bryce. The middle render is actually nearly Howie Farkes level of brilliant, imo, and I wanted to venture that if Rashad wanted to become a Daz PA and get a little extra scratch, I think he could certainly become a Bryce PA, making environment scenes for Bryce similar to what Howie and mmoir do for Carrara (I hope you'll take it as a compliment Rashad, because I think you are very talented indeed, and a casual search of for-sale Bryce scenes in the daz marketplace seems to demonstrate you certainly are as talented in environment creation as any of the current Bryce PAs that do that kind of stuff). The downside would be at a guess that the Bryce PA potential market is probably the smallest of the bunch, aside from the Hexagon PA market (is there such a thing as a Hexagon PA, I wonder? :) )

    postscript: I couldn't resist checking to see if there is such a thing as a Hex PA. Turns out there sure is. Mostly it's people making for-sale videos/manuals of how to use/learn Hex. :)


    I'll check that out! I'd love to see Rashad's work! He's a stellar individual, in my book!
    And, no. While they're smaller in number, Bryce-specific Published Artists are treated the same as all PAs. If you have an imagination, and make cool stuff for other folks to enjoy, DAZ 3D wants to see your ideas! The cool part about it is that it's two-fold. DAZ wants to sell it, and we want to buy it!
    It's really fun buying scenes that other people have painstakingly created. I often add my own twists to how they might be lit, add in some other cool content, etc., and I love it! I am more of a DAZ 3D customer that a creator! :)
  • magaremotomagaremoto Posts: 1,106
    edited August 2014

    Dart,

    I agree with you, us Carrara PA are here to make things easier for the community and at the same time help promote Carrara. This in turn will help drive up sales and this will help with the Development of Carrara.

    Like you mention Carrara has plenty of powerful features that allow users from hobbyists to Professionals created amazing images, animations etc.

    Here is my suggestions to DAZ 3D:

    Make Carrara the DAZ 3D all in one solutions for Content Development.
    This means don't just make it load and animate DAZ 3D figures such as Victoria but develop Carrara so that any user can create a Victoria in Carrara. From modeling, rigging, texturing, morph creating... everything.
    This means put all of Hexagon in Carrara and all of the DAZ Studio features in Carrara.
    Improved the 3D Painting to the level that PA will use it.
    Let all PA learn and use Carrara for Content development.
    Promote Carrara in other venues that will bring in more high-end users that will also create more content.
    It would be a win win for DAZ 3D and the community.

    Ringo Monfort


    Very cool stuff, Ringo.
    When I was beta testing for 8 and 8.5 Pro, Pierre behaved much the same way. If there was something that needed to be fixed or added, he tried his damnedest to get it fixed or added. A lot went on in those two upgrades - but there doesn't seem to be such an active development team striving upon it every day anymore. I have a feeling that DAZ 3D has a DAZ Studio development team that is dedicated to DS, and then the Carrara development team is drawn from a few of those people, while the rest stay on with DS... but that's just a guess.

    When I began the "EnvironKits" line of products, it was an attempt to show the 3D community how easily and quickly we can build stages and full scenes in Carrara - incredible compared to Poser and DS, as well as any other 3D software, in my honest opinion!

    So I'm trying to use Carrara-specific products to draw more interest towards Carrara to drive up Carrara sales. Not from a greedy aspect (as you can tell by the value/price ratio of E-Kits), but from a "Carrara needs to be seen and used!" aspect! I truly feel that most Poser users would find a much nicer home in Carrara. And for those true to Poser, Poser and Carrara work extremely well side-by-side. Now... the same applies to Carrara and DS almost as much!

    We Carrara PAs must continue to make really cool stuff for users to get the most out of Carrara with easy-to-use presets. Carrara purists already know how beautiful Carrara is. We need to up the sales of Carrara itself, and draw full-time development back into Carrara!

    The thing is, what Eovia and DAZ 3D have already done with Carrara is so wonderful that, even with its current lack of active development, Carrara is still the best darned software for Home Movie Makers/Web Developers. And it's still incredibly low priced!

    I hope that DAZ 3D decides to place full time attention to active Carrara development. I'd rather see that that to have it leave to another author, just because I like the attention to compatibility between Carrara and DS and Poser - which is truly what helps to set Carrara apart from anything else on the market. But even if one doesn't use "Content", Carrara is still packed to the hilt with the finest combination of imagination realization tools... Anywhere!

    Actually not all the PAs are lucky enough to help growing the C community; i.e. days ago I uploaded a promo for my last product inhering my best settings for quick and effective renders with an AO based rig but I haven't got back any feedback so far. I'm seriously thinking of giving up and switch to DS or Poser. Professionally speaking, Carrara is still the best choice when you have to set up a huge scene with some characters into, who can prove the opposite let me know

    Post edited by magaremoto on
  • ringo monfortringo monfort Posts: 927
    edited August 2014

    You are 100 % right on everything!

    They DAZ 3D first acquired Carrara I was invited by Dan Farr to go to Utah and show and give them some training oh what Carrara and Hexagon can do. They were very surprise by all the things that Carrara can do. They didn't have much of an idea of what they had just purchase.
    I also had to come up with a formal plan on how to develop and package Carrara content cause no one at DAZ knew the file structure of the application and what could be saved as content to sell.
    One side note there are some PA that are using Hexagon to create clothing and even morphs that they load up into DAZ Studio.

    Carrara needs to get to the level of both DAZ Studio and Poser in the way they save items for content to be sold. Just about anything can be saved in both applications to be sold as content from saving poses, shader presets, morphs rigs you name it. It can be save as content. This cannot be done in Carrara.

    Ringo

    Dart,

    I agree with you, us Carrara PA are here to make things easier for the community and at the same time help promote Carrara. This in turn will help drive up sales and this will help with the Development of Carrara.

    Like you mention Carrara has plenty of powerful features that allow users from hobbyists to Professionals created amazing images, animations etc.

    Here is my suggestions to DAZ 3D:

    Make Carrara the DAZ 3D all in one solutions for Content Development.
    This means don't just make it load and animate DAZ 3D figures such as Victoria but develop Carrara so that any user can create a Victoria in Carrara. From modeling, rigging, texturing, morph creating... everything.
    This means put all of Hexagon in Carrara and all of the DAZ Studio features in Carrara.
    Improved the 3D Painting to the level that PA will use it.
    Let all PA learn and use Carrara for Content development.
    Promote Carrara in other venues that will bring in more high-end users that will also create more content.
    It would be a win win for DAZ 3D and the community.

    Ringo Monfort

    There's just one itsy-bitsy gigantically huge problem with this ideal. The spin is somewhat of a lie. It is my opinion that the people behind the scenes at Daz dont actually use the software they sell, aside from Daz Studio.

    Why should Daz expect people to build content in Carrara when they themselves don't even use Carrara for building content? Was Genesis modeled in Hexagon or Carrara? Nope. Have ANY of the figures sold here been created in Carrara or Hexagon? Do you ever see Carrara landscapes or Bryce landscapes rendered by any of the Daz staff other than moderators who arent even staff members? Even when they have the preview threads about new characters in the Commons or Members Only, do you often see sample renders made in Bryce or in Hexagon? No. Do you see Daz making an effort to promote PA's who actively utilize Daz software for making content? No. Does Stonemason use Carrara for his models....doubt it. Does Mec4D use any Daz software for creating her amazing content? Probably not. In fact, can anyone name a single PA who exclusively uses Daz3d applications solely for creating content that will eventually be sold?

    We the community members are the only ones using these applications. It would not surprise me if many of the executives haven't ever opened Bryce or Hexagon scenes. Have never ever ever used Carrara.

    Many of these people have formal training and in school they dont teach Carrara, they teach Maya, Lightwave etc.....

    Lack of development tells me all I need to know about how often they themselves choose their own applications for accomplishing real work. Let's be honest, if you use Carrara every day then the bugs will annoy you and you will want to fix them. Lack of cloth in Carrara would annoy you too. Lack of genuine Genesis support would truly annoy you.

    If you use Bryce you know how badly it needs to be 64 bit. You know how badly it needs another development cycle to fix the yet underdeveloped instancing and broken tree mesh export. Hexagon could use some major stability upgrades. If you used these applications often enough, you would know quite well what is needed to improve the applications. And again I state the annoyance one would experience from regular use of the applications would be catalyzing enough that development would never cease as it tends to do around here.

    It seems to me the only real requirement for working at Daz3d is that you familiarize yourself with Daz Studio. Period. The others are optional. That is a very big problem.

    I conclude by reiterating that what Daz has yet to do is to PROVE that Carrara really can be the all in one solution. They're all such experts with Cinema 4D, Maya, Lightwave, 3DSMax, you name it and they use it. But many of them know next to nothing about using any of the daz software aside from Daz Studio itself .

    I hope I am wrong about this, I just doubt it very much. This is the Daz Studio show, the rest of the applications are supporting cast members at best. There is nothing wrong with that, so long as we all know what we are really dealing with here.

    Moderators: If this post is offensive or breaks TOS rules in any way please let me know and I will remove it promptly.

    Post edited by ringo monfort on
  • ringo monfortringo monfort Posts: 927
    edited December 1969

    The fact that Stonemason included an complete set of Carrara shaders for This Product is testament that Stephan at least considers the idea of using Carrara, if not for himself, for his customers.

    Funny you should mention this product, I was the one that did those shader for it and I also did Carrara shader for another one of Stonemason products.

    I also did this one but DAZ turn it down as they though there weren't going to be much sales for it. The AT Drone Carrara Render Kit.


    AT_Drone_Carrara_Render_Kit.jpg
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  • Eric3dddEric3ddd Posts: 67
    edited December 1969

    They DAZ 3D first acquired Carrara I was invited by Dan Farr to go to Utah and show and give them some training oh what Carrara and Hexagon can do. They were very surprise by all the things that Carrara can do. They didn't have much of an idea of what they had just purchase.
    I also had to come up with a formal plan on how to develop and package Carrara content cause no one at DAZ knew the file structure of the application and what could be saved as content to sell.

    This is the first time I hear this, but I'm not surprised. Carrara just started supporting content (Poser mostly, if I remember properly) and DAZ probably looked at that aspect when they bought Eovia, but apparently didn't know what they were buying. It's more obvious when you see they acquired the Hexagon code but did not retain any of its developers. It seemed like a boardroom decision that was made looking at the big picture (we sell content and Eovia makes software that uses content) without considering the technical details.

    While I didn't follow DAZ closely before they acquired Eovia, I think they were struggling to compete against the e-Frontier/Content Paradise/Poser conglomerate. DAZ Studio, at the time, paled in comparison to Poser. This further explains the rush to acquire a program that could use their content.

    Make Carrara the DAZ 3D all in one solutions for Content Development.
    This means don't just make it load and animate DAZ 3D figures such as Victoria but develop Carrara so that any user can create a Victoria in Carrara. From modeling, rigging, texturing, morph creating... everything.
    This means put all of Hexagon in Carrara and all of the DAZ Studio features in Carrara.
    Improved the 3D Painting to the level that PA will use it.
    Let all PA learn and use Carrara for Content development.
    Promote Carrara in other venues that will bring in more high-end users that will also create more content.
    It would be a win win for DAZ 3D and the community.


    I fully agree. Unfortunately, each software was developed using different programming language. So you can't simply merge them into one. You would have to rewrite the Carrara VM to include Hexagon-like features. Although not a simple task, it should be possible and there has been enough time to do it. It just isn't a priority.
    Some simple features like using a key command for "Loop" instead of clicking a button would go a long way to make the VM faster to use and should not take years of development.
  • arcadyarcady Posts: 340
    edited December 1969

    Eric3ddd said:
    While I didn't follow DAZ closely before they acquired Eovia, I think they were struggling to compete against the e-Frontier/Content Paradise/Poser conglomerate. DAZ Studio, at the time, paled in comparison to Poser. This further explains the rush to acquire a program that could use their content.

    Make Carrara the DAZ 3D all in one solutions for Content Development.
    This means don't just make it load and animate DAZ 3D figures such as Victoria but develop Carrara so that any user can create a Victoria in Carrara. From modeling, rigging, texturing, morph creating... everything.
    This means put all of Hexagon in Carrara and all of the DAZ Studio features in Carrara.

    I fully agree. Unfortunately, each software was developed using different programming language. So you can't simply merge them into one. You would have to rewrite the Carrara VM to include Hexagon-like features. Although not a simple task, it should be possible and there has been enough time to do it. It just isn't a priority.
    Some simple features like using a key command for "Loop" instead of clicking a button would go a long way to make the VM faster to use and should not take years of development.

    Yeah my last company was just starting to do that with its products and websites right as I was brought in.

    Moving all of their stuff from Java, its derivatives, and some unrelated things in random languages to PHP and fully redone modernized HTML / scripting.

    That was a nightmare of a project to do. And they were really a book publisher - so this was with much of that code not being customer facing.

    I guess merging these apps is a bit of a pipe dream. :)


    I don't think Daz was ever struggling against Poser / Content Paradise - but I do think they were concerned about losing their edge.

    Even before Vicky 1, this was the house that made Possette - it was welded to Poser so closely it was easy to wonder why they were two companies and not the same.

    I think Daz Studio started because they started seeing Poser get shopped around to different companies and well... when your business is very heavily angled on providing content for someone else's program - its a bit scary when that someone else is going out of business every 3 days...

    Daz's purchase of Eovia baffles me. I forget if Eovia was risking going under or not - I don't remember the forum discussions of the day when it happened. I guess it was just motivated by a desire to become the complete package. They've pretty much now got us covered from every stage from concept to render - all they need now is to buy 'Paint Shop Pro' or make a Gimp plugin or something... :)

    If they were worried about Content Paradise I don't know - that sight seemed to fumble a lot in its early days... and its still not much of a paradise for content.

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,244
    edited December 1969

    I used Carrara 15 years ago before Daz was even formed . on this time all programs on this time was working on the same ideas and waves , after 2000 they started to split into different directions . Still Carrara offer you more than D.S today , the reason that you miss other functions is that the programmers don't want to clump the original codes to much other way it would not make sense to have 2 programs, if I was owner of the both software, I would put everything into Carrara and skip developing the other programs . I don't create other stuff in DS than setup and posing of my content and render previews . That is... you can have so much more fun with Carrara but it looks like covered with a cloud , the user group is very small and sadly it seems like nobody care about. Unless there will be options to save and setup content that works in both programs it will not grab as much attention.

    bellow some fun I had with Carrara 8 Pro (did not updated to higher version )

    http://youtu.be/lin_C9hmg54

    http://youtu.be/EyAKr6wIFWY

    http://youtu.be/D_CyiHdbRvM

    http://youtu.be/lDf63ufc2gY

    http://youtu.be/HkhBvFFH7Xw

    http://youtu.be/EQcD590XhiY

    http://youtu.be/2nGwHCcDjc0

    http://youtu.be/yP5qqIDhqaw

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 16,780
    edited December 1969

    Cool!
    Thanks, Cat, for making an appearance here. I love the example videos! Very cool to see 'you' doing awesome tests in C8Pro!
    It is my dream to get Carrara noticed in this world of 3d.
    I feel that many more people would be using and loving it, if only they knew!

    Right now, even without an active development, Carrara Rocks!
    So I'd like to make it worthwhile to finance active development. The active user base is larger than I had originally thought - but nowhere near that of the more popular apps. I want to try and change that.

    It's very refreshing to me to see one of my favorite 3d content creators playing around with really cool stuff with Carrara, and posting it on YouTube! Thanks for that!

  • TangoAlphaTangoAlpha Posts: 4,570
    edited December 1969

    Cath, nice to see you here :)
    For a while I loved your Huntress outfits for Dawn, but since switching to Carrara, I pretty much abandoned the figure - too many "poser weight map" problems/too little duf support - and I really missed the huntress outfit: there's nothing quite like it for Genesis/G2.

    So imagine my delight this morning to see your new Huntress for G2F! :cheese: Awesome!

    Thanks! :coolsmile:

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,244
    edited December 1969

    With the all Carrara videos I made before I was hoping it grab some interest by other users, since not much people even know the possibilities.. like for example masking 2d video footage as I made with the 2 ships flying on the street , it was pretty awesome without any chrome key straight in the program , so good luck with the good intentions, I will be back into Carrara soon again for more fun

    Cath

    Cool!
    Thanks, Cat, for making an appearance here. I love the example videos! Very cool to see 'you' doing awesome tests in C8Pro!
    It is my dream to get Carrara noticed in this world of 3d.
    I feel that many more people would be using and loving it, if only they knew!

    Right now, even without an active development, Carrara Rocks!
    So I'd like to make it worthwhile to finance active development. The active user base is larger than I had originally thought - but nowhere near that of the more popular apps. I want to try and change that.

    It's very refreshing to me to see one of my favorite 3d content creators playing around with really cool stuff with Carrara, and posting it on YouTube! Thanks for that!

  • MEC4DMEC4D Posts: 5,244
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Tim, yes I was thinking the set deserve better audience , glad you agree with me on that :)
    check the thread : http://www.daz3d.com/forums/viewreply/659485/

    Cath

    Tim_A said:
    Cath, nice to see you here :)
    For a while I loved your Huntress outfits for Dawn, but since switching to Carrara, I pretty much abandoned the figure - too many "poser weight map" problems/too little duf support - and I really missed the huntress outfit: there's nothing quite like it for Genesis/G2.

    So imagine my delight this morning to see your new Huntress for G2F! :cheese: Awesome!

    Thanks! :coolsmile:

  • Bunyip02Bunyip02 Posts: 4,573
    edited December 1969

    Hello all

    I have been using DAZ3D for a few years now, and bought Carrara when I had the opportunity.
    Am very impressed with it, but am still very much learning.
    Have been watching the video tutorials, next step is to get some decent renders out !!!!!!!

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,021
    edited December 1969

    Bunyip02 said:
    Hello all

    I have been using DAZ3D for a few years now, and bought Carrara when I had the opportunity.
    Am very impressed with it, but am still very much learning.
    Have been watching the video tutorials, next step is to get some decent renders out !!!!!!!

    It's very nice to have you here! There is a learning curve, but have patience and ask questions and people here will bend backwards to try and help you out! Before you know it, you'll be helping out the next person!

    In case you didn't see them, these threads and sites may be of interest to you:

    Carrara Information Manual
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15970/

    The Carrara Cafe
    http://carraracafe.com/

    Our latest render challenge WIP thread. Feel free to ask questions in there even if you don't submit anything. I hope to do a search and compile the WIP and submission threads for all our past challenges.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/44033/
    Here is the challenge's submission thread:
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/44589/

    Our latest Post Your Render threads where everybody is welcome to post their most recent Carrara renders. It's a great place to get feedback, be inspired and ask questions.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/43528/

    Cripeman is a very prolific and knowledgeable producer of Carrara youtube video tutorials.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/1454/

    PhilW and Infinite Skills are very well received and reviewed producers of Carrara tutorials available from DAZ 3D. There is a discussion on their latest offering.
    http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/44160/

  • Rashad CarterRashad Carter Posts: 1,775
    edited December 1969

    First I want to thank the moderators for allowing the post to remain.

    Dart,
    Yep, you are correct. There is surely another side to the story. While development hasn't kept pace with expectation, no one can say Daz has done nothing with the these apps. Bryce 7 for one saw a huge improvement, the most new features added than in any other development cycle previous. Daz put a real sincere effort into it but unfortunately they didn't have time to fully finish everything.
    With Carrara, Daz has also done a good job of adding in new features. We can all see that software development isnt the main focus of Daz3d currently, but that said they've still managed to get some nice things done.

    JonStark
    Thank you so much for such a powerful compliment! I have been trying to build up some content to sell here at Daz for Bryce users that is similar in appearance to Howie Farkes type scenes, but there is currently a nasty memory leak with instancing that prevents me from doing so. David B and Horo are extremely good at making content out of Bryce. They tend to concentrate on the things Bryce can do easily and naturally, unlike myself who tends to focus on breaking the application to get it to go places it doesn't always want to go. Someday maybe soon, I will find a way to bring my craziness to the masses. Hoping.

  • grant_8ac088b087grant_8ac088b087 Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Hi all - interesting reading on this thread: I was a user through most of it, but didn't know the behind-the-scenes story.
    So far as I could tell, when Corel took over Bryce, their sole contribution was to put a Corel logo on the Bryce 5 box. I thought the upgrade was a waste of money - the bugs were still there and didn't see any new features. Eovia, and then DAZ, did a far better job.

    Came into Carrara at V1.0, I think from a CD that came with a magazine, so I don't have the packaging. Don't think I ever used it much until I got C4, which I started using for all the modelling that Bryce couldn't do, then imported to Bryce for rendering... Ah, the old days...

    Thought I'd upload a 'Family Reunion' shot. For what it's worth, the cool image on the RD4 box is not, actually a render - it's an illustration credited to Johnathon Banta, who seems to be a big fan of Japanese illustrator Hajime Sorayama. (I also work in airbrush.)

    Cheers

    Grant

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  • Design AcrobatDesign Acrobat Posts: 459
    edited December 1969

    More trivia from Carrara's past

    Title: Carrara Muse
    Name: Thomas Roussel ( one of Hex., Carrara, Amapi creatord, now working for Pixologic on ZBrush, also worked with Anime Studio and Poser)
    Country: France
    Software Used in Image: (Other), Carrara, Photoshop

    This image was for the Carrara 5 box illustration. It was (and still) used for various advertising and banners.
    The character is from me, modeled in Hexagon, textures and lighting done in Carrara 5 Pro.

    The background, the small floating sph�re and the final Photoshop postwork was done by Emmanuel

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/archive/index.php/t-343640.html

    Carrara Muse by Thomas Roussel was the cover for the box of Carrara 5

    http://totyo.cgsociety.org/art/hexagon-carrara-eovia-muse-other-photoshop-3d-343640

    carrara_muse.jpg
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  • ReidhReidh Posts: 1
    edited December 1969

    Does anybody have a serial number I can use to open the PLE of Carrara Studio 3 on the cd in the book "carrara studio 3: handbook" by mike de la flor ( copyright 2004: Charles River Media Inc. ) I have already contacted Daz about this and they claim they have no serial numbers for an installation. I Find that Hard to Believe, but inasmuch as they refuse to help me whatsoever, are there any carrara studio 3 fans that might help?

  • evilproducerevilproducer Posts: 9,021
    edited December 1969

    Sorry. Before my time. I started with Carrara 5. Before that, Raydream Studio 5.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 11,727
    edited December 1969

    Reidh said:
    Does anybody have a serial number I can use to open the PLE of Carrara Studio 3 on the cd in the book "carrara studio 3: handbook" by mike de la flor ( copyright 2004: Charles River Media Inc. ) I have already contacted Daz about this and they claim they have no serial numbers for an installation. I Find that Hard to Believe, but inasmuch as they refuse to help me whatsoever, are there any carrara studio 3 fans that might help?

    I have that Carrara 3 Handbook and it came with the cd you are talking about. The disc has a text file called "about the CD." Here is what it says about the serial number.

    Software demos:
    Carrara Studio 3
    To get the serial number for Carrara Studio 3 please register at the following URL:
    http://www.eovia.com/carrara/cs3demo_serial.html
    Amapi Designer 7
    To get the serial number for Amapi 7 please register at the following URL:
    http://www.eovia.com/amapi7/am7demo_serial.html

    I suspect that all such rights were transferred to Daz.

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