What are the advantages of purchasing other Genesis figures?
nubianbdsmart
Posts: 60
I'm not sure if anyone else has posted about this subject, but I have been playing around with Daz for about 3 years. I had never messed with any kind of digital art, until I came across Daz. So I'm still learning a lot. Ive been using Genesis 2 figures for everything. I did purchase a few Genesis 3 figures, but I always find myself going back to Genesis 2 figures. Now I see that they have Genesis 8.
My question is, what are the advantages of purchasing other Genesis figures? Is it a preferance thing or are they actually better? Also will they ever stop creating things, like clothes and poses to use with Genesis 2?
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Each iteration of the Daz characters brings some improvements, as well as some compromise. G8 has improved face structure, but some minor problems with some skin textures. I prefer G3, mainly because that was what was the "new thing" when I returned to 3D art. Before that, I really liked Generation 4 (V4/M4) and even Generation 3 (V3/M3/etc). Genesis 3 can do most of the things Genesis 8 can do, and vice versa. Genesis 2, not so much. Keep in mind that this is a very expensive hobby, and decide how you want to use your money. And have fun!
...the benefit of the Genesis line over Gen3/4 is being able to more freely fit clothing between different figures (even cross gender). In teh past it requried using a thrid party conversion tool that wasn't always accruate and/or going though a tedious manual fit process. Now I can fit say, Aiko 6 clothing to Sadie which was almost impossible to do back then.
Same goes for skins.
This is one of those conversations that easily spiral into chaos so I will begin by saying:
people have their own preferences, and more choices and improvements don't invalidate their personal love of a generation of character that they use.
That being said, I would say that, yes, each generation of characters brings improvements for the majority of users. I reiterate that this is not true of every user. In general, each generation brings better bending, better expressions, more natural skins, on and on. For me, the earlier generations generally get pushed back to background figures as they nudge the "uncanny valley" too much. As for the second question, the answer is a qualified yes so, that as time goes on, there will be a great decrease of products for genesis 2 etc... The market contracts as the user base contracts. This is not unusual in anything connected with technology. I remember when one could buy vhs tapes at drugstores. Now, one would have to search through Amazon or eBay to find ones made 10 years ago. I am currently dealing with a work problem of one of our employees are having issues with the two factor authentification of our campus email. He still uses a flipphone which requires an unpleasant workaround since so few campus personnels don't have smartphones. Technology evolves.
...however for those who don't have the financial resources to keep abreast with the change, it often evolves without them leaving them in the wake. Hence the fellow with the flip phone. For as little as a 15$ one time purchase and a 10$ a month prepaid card, you have basic communication, whereas I am paying 55$ a month (believe it or not, which is "senior discounted rate") for my smartphone service, and the phone device itself has already been paid off.
In this case, he can easily afford the phone and service, particularly since his wife and kids all are avid iPhone users, he has both iPad and current macbook, Hdtv etc... He is a little technophobic and only recently got a phone at all because his family insisted on it (we are in earthquake country) but keeps it turned off which thwarts them and their safet concerns.
...ahh yes, there are those types. I know several people who still use flip phones and the minutes cards because upgrading is too costly for them.
Almost thinking of going back to that myself were it not that my smartphone wasn't also my means to pay transit fares. Our system will be discontinuing paper tickets/passes this year and not into carrying a wad of "exact change around" in my pocket. The "smart fare" card they have is somewhat wonky as unless you make a certain number of trips within the first 2.5 hours it doesn't automatically upgrade to a day pass. I often use a day pass if I am going to be out long just so I don't have to deal with transfer expiation times (particularly when a bus is late) or having to pay separate fares. Furthermore I can purchase "tickets" or a pass directly on the phone instead of having to go out of my way to an outlet to "recharge" the card.
Here, financial resaons are rarely the problem. He actually loves buying technology which he puts in the drawer and never uses because he says he is not used to using it and afraid of breaking it.
Also financial burden NEVER drives technology or is taken in account. Iphones don't thrive because people can't afford it. If you can't afford the phone, you can't afford the phone. But technology doesn't stall because folks have issues paying for it.. other people can get the tech and have no problem. But even then, those people find their way to buying into it.
....or just get a cheaper Android model. with the features they want. Mine cost me 110$ instead of 1,000$ and is still probably more tech than I really need as I don't get a tonne of phone calls since I'm retired and I suck at texting because of my arthritis (my personal running joke is that I create new languages when I attempt to text). About all I use data for is checking the weather, using our transit system's tracker app, check emails when I'm out and about, and show people what I do with 3D CG by pulling up my DA gallery. I occasionally use the camera but it's nowhere near as good resolution as my old 35mm (film) SLR.
Were it not for the transit system situation I mentioned above, my old flip phone would almost work just as well.
I think the biggest advantage to purchasing the later Genesis figures is the support those figures get, (i.e. wardrobe, poses, wearable props.) Yes, each new generation comes with advances in the technology, but only you can decide if those changes are important to you.
One of the advantages of staying with the older generations is the great discounts you'll find on the older content from time to time. Just as the biggest disadvantage is the relative lack of new products supporting those older generations. (Though V4/M4 seem to have a lot of support still, probably because of Poser. Not a Poser user, so I'm just guessing based on comments I've read.)
G2 was the flagship figure when I got started. I reluctantly started using G3 about the time Leo was released and found I really loved those figures. Now that G8 is out, I'm slowly adding it to my runtime, mostly the males, and that to help thwart the "male stuff doesn't sell" belief. The better I get at this hobby, though, the more I use all three generations, (with the occasional G1 and V4/M4 thrown in.) In the It's Raining Men contest last Nov-Dec, my first render used G8M, my second used two G3Ms and one G8M, and the third used G2M.
The point is, if you're happy with your art using Genesis 2, waiting to adopt later generations is a viable option for you. And it could be a lot cheaper, too, in a hobby that can get outrageously expensively!
Until dynamic clothing, hair, softbody physics, (as in wobbly belly fat for example), ragdoll physics, animation, and so on are working in DAZ Studio & working good you are best productivity wise and financially sticking with Genesis 2 and buying carefully chosen Genesis characters as needed.
If you tend to collect things as I do (and I've found and collected empty sea shells, fossils, coins, and lots to collect since childhood) then go with Genesis 8 and collect the ones that you want to use in renders, animations, or interactive media.
If you recieve any federal benefits such as SSI,SSD even EBT(food stamps)
you qualify for a free basic android smart phone with 1 gig of monthly data
unlimited free texts through "Safelink" or "Assurance wireless".
I know people who have them
they function just fine even with personal wi fi hot spot
Sounds perfect for a person with
limited smartphone Data requirements/usage.
http://www.assurancewireless.com/Public/Welcome.aspx
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/Enrollment/Safelink/en/NewPublic/index.html
...already paid for the phone and don't think those services are transferrable. I'm one to not just toss something aside that I paid for which still works fine. I am shopping around for a more affordable plan as I don't need unlimited data since I no longer have to use the phone as a wireless hotspot (I now have a hard wired Net service connection again).
I still only got a "flip phone" with a contingency plan, because I don't need a smartphone or cellphone, except for some rare situations.
That I'm living in germany isn't the reason for this, as about 99.9999% of people around me use smartphones excessively - it's just that I don't NEED a smartphone. I can be reached by normal telephone if there's need and by e-mail. For anything that has to do with internet and stuff connected to it, I have a PC.
But for DAZ I appreciate new models giving added flexibility and options to me. Would be nice though, if the stuff from newer models could be used with older ones (and vice versa..) without the need to buy extra addons.
My big work problem (of which I have many) is that if he got the $100 Android phone, what he doesn't get is a steady path of security upgrades (the important Android patches generally only hit the current versions of Android and it is too expensive to bother to patch earlier ones). Our university simply won't let us put computers older than 6 or 7 years onour network or recieve email since there is no way to patch them securely. I sudder when I realize that there are people buying stuff on the web out of date security.... without a path to properly encrypt his data, he (and the university) are safer without the phone. Unfortunately, the current workatround is that everytime he checks his email outside our firewall, the campus sends a phone call with a one time code number to enter that he must answer from his home phone to login.... which he understandably considers a hassle. My boss, though, says he has to do and I must make him do it.
...fortunately I don't work in such an environment as I'm retired.
To get back to the topic at hand...
One benefit of newer figures is that older ones typically start coming down in price, especially for the Bundles which usually include some clothes, hair, alternate textures, and even character presets. Then the associated add-ons such as head and body morphs go on sale for deeper discounts, and on and on, so you can build a considerable library of content for a fair price.
As for newer figures being "better", that's somewhat subjective. The comment about "more realistic skin textures" is a bit of a misnomer: photographs of human bodies as skin textures has always been a viable option, even with figures that pre-date Victoria and Michael. Those figures could have new UV maps generated at a higher resolution, and be retextured. The meshes could also be passed through a modeler and had their poly counts increased to give them higher resolution and smooth them over.
Free programs like Hexagon and Blender can do these things, though I'm not aware of any one-click solutions to do it. But then, not everyone who downloads Daz Studio has quit their lucrative "day job" to focus on being a paid Content Creator as their sole source of income, so hobbyists do have the time to look into that sort of thing.
V4 is the oldest figure that is still actively supported with new content of good quality, though most of that content is found on other sites, as Daz, understandably, largely focuses on the newer generations of figures.
There's nothing wrong with using V4 or even Genesis or Genesis 2. These figures may eventually lose "official" support, but they will continue to function and their libraries of content will not diminish. It's easy to fall into the "me too!" trap of buying the newest figures just to "keep up with the Joneses", but if you go to the main Store page and scroll all the way down to the bottom and click the last page number, there is still quite a bit of V3 stuff you can buy, so Genesis 2 stuff isn't going away anytime soon.
As well, V4 has proven that it's not what you have, it's what you can do with it.
I don't have the time to read the whole thread, so I don't know if people have mentioned it (I'm sure they have) but there are marked improvements between Genesis 2 and Genesis 3. Genesis 8 is an improvement over Genesis 3, but not as much as the improvement from G2 to G3. Still, each new generation so far has been a step closer to being more realistic (at least as far as the movements/bends and anatomy). Textures and skin can be argued though. Thankfully one can use textures from other generations on the newer figures (some require the purchase of an additional product to do so, though Genesis 8 can use Genesis 3 textures "out of the box"). :)
If Genesis 2 is what you like then by all means, stick with it ;). I have everything from Genesis to Genesis 8 and I use all of them at times. The big difference I would say between Genesis 2 and Genesis 3 is that 2 is a tiny bit more stylized and 3 is a tiny bit more realistic. Perhaps the stylized is what you like. Since the hobby is so expensive, stick with what makes you happy. I do have to say tho that when a new figure is released at Daz, vendors mostly cease to create clothes for the previous version. The good thing is that between Daz and other stores there are still plenty of Genesis 2 clothes to go around and I'm sure you don't own all of them :). So theoretically you could still be dressing your G2s for awhile yet :).
Laurie
One difference is you need less add-on items to fix bends with each generation. Facial mobility seems to improve which each generation. Poly count has decreased in each generation...probably just a plus for game developers and maybe those that create animations.
I think if you only do extreme close-ups of the face or animations then perhaps the newer generations would hold a decided advantage. If you are doing still renders of full body scenes and you are happy with your content, I don't think you have to jump ship just because there are newer figures. Those that wait can get some really great deals.
Content as in wearable content goes a long way towards making a great image unless you're just doing naked vicky in the temple renders. In my opinion, you can have the most expressive model that bends just perfect without applying fixes but if you don't have the content appropriate for the scene then the overall render suffers. Figure fixes or even post work can go a long way to fix almost any disadvantages that you feel G2 figures have if you are rendering still images.
One other benefit of using Genesis 3/8 over previous generations is that you can get more of them into a scene without overtaxing your system. For example, this scene, which would have been impossible for me using V4/M4 - G2F/G2M:
This is a really bad misconception. The poly count in the face hasn't changed that much between generations, the change has been in the chest and hip areas so the change is **not** for games or animation. Please don't use this statement because it just isn't true. The change is more for better bending. The removal of the polygon flow for muscle groups starting in genesis 3 allowed for less polygons as well for the bends and unique body shapes can bend better in the genesis gene pool.
As has been said by a few people, newer models have the fixes and improvements. But, if you've got some favourite G2 figures that you like playing with, you can always upgrade them to the new model using GenX or transfer utility. My stable of characters all started out as M4 or genesis and I'm still using them with g8m.
I would say it depends on what you use it for, if you work in DS go for the ones you like best, G3/G8 can be more realistic if you need that, if you like the G/G2 look better go with that V4/M4/G1/G2 are easier to export, G3/G8 can cause problems depending on the software you export to.
I use G1/G2 because I like the look of them best for what I use it for and they export well to the software I use, I got a lot of G3 also but no G8, but that's just because it would empty the money bag faster buying into another generation so I stopped at G3.
The facial rigging is cool and allows you to do things that are more difficult with older generations, but just difficult not impossible.
Almost nothing new comes out for G1 but there are some G2 stuff popping up now and then, but you can convert some G3 stuff to G/G2 and so on, but when new generations come out the PA's are not interested in making things for old generations any more and that is understandable, they go where the money is of course.
Poly count is a two edged sword, you got low res when you need it but you may need HD or other tweaking to get more details (subdiv on it's own cannot increase details on the base mesh without something to help it add the details), so that might be a good reason to use multiple generations
If you've upgraded to the latest version of Daz Studio, you've already gotten free copies of all the Genesis base figures. Mess around with posing them and doing some sample renders to determine which you like the best/are most comfortable with. You can use them all if you like, or you can just use one of them. The choice is yours!
1) The main advantage of purchasing other Genesis characters is that you'll have a variety of morphs and skin textures to use on characters that you dial up and create down the road. 2) Personally, I use Genesis 1-3 with about the same frequency although I do prefer the expressions that G3 can provide and so I lean toward using G3 for closeups. 3)The Genesis 2 retail boat sailed a couple of months after Genesis 3 was introduced. You'll still see freebies posted elsewhere that are designed for use with G2 from time to time. These include mainly poses. But it's very unlikely that you will see any paid products for G2 in this store or in others now that it its two generations old.
The service is transferable
but you have to physcially bring your existing
smartphone into a walmart or other authorized vendor.
they put in their safelink simcard in your phone and you have the
free service on your existing phone
You lose nothing.. but a monthly bill.
but it sounds like you are managing OK
paying for your current service so.... carry on
As these are subjective, I'd prefer to know what features you love about what you use now.
For me, G3 and G8 more so, are much better for posing and bending; textures themselves vary. I buy and convert earlier generations of figures, although shapes less so, but am more likely to convert head shapes.
I prefer to spin my own.
The only reason I moved from G8 to G3 though, is that very nearly all G3 items/textures transfer very well to G8 (basically with the exception of some shoes).
The image shows a V4 based texture (left), which I had to swap to V4 UVs first iirc, and a G2 texture right (no idea if it was default G2 UVs or not).
I customised them; then just rendered them in my default light i use to maintain texture shading consistency. The clothes are G3, the hair on the left (which I bought in december) is G3, and the right one from G2 (Ysabeau) and still one of my favourites.
You might decide to move, but your old content is still there.
Opinions aside, one of the bonuses of older figures is that bundles for them occasinally become free. If you have not picked up Stephanie 6 (for G2), the starter bundle is currently a weekly freebie here.
An advantage of using multiple Genesis generations (and I'd also include V4/M4) is that it can be easier to have different looking characters in your render, or series of renders.
Each generation has a tendency toward similar "dna", in that most of the characters within a generation look like siblings or cousins. Even with G3 and G8, which use the same mesh, there is quite a difference in appearance (perhaps due to the facial rig in G8).
The above applies primarily to the "official" DAZ human characters along with the less adventurous PA releases. Some PAs do very well with making unique characters, and then there's the fantastical stuff which is obviously very different.
Even realism is somewhat subjective. It depends on what you're used to seeing around you in reality. Granted I've not personally encountered anyone that's a dead ringer for Aiko or The Girl (yet), but I can dream LOL