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Subsurface Shaders... WOW!

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  • Laticis ImageryLaticis Imagery Posts: 439
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    When my ss character is against another ss character, there is a glow where the shadow is...almost like somebody used the highlight brush in photoshop on that area. What setting removes it?

    That is a good question Zev0

    That result you are talking about is also visible on my Troll image above....where the feet and the prop ( which also has SSS applied )
    meet you can see it bleeding out quite a bit.

  • MABMAB Posts: 148
    edited December 1969

    Laticis said:
    Zev0 said:
    When my ss character is against another ss character, there is a glow where the shadow is...almost like somebody used the highlight brush in photoshop on that area. What setting removes it?

    That is a good question Zev0

    That result you are talking about is also visible on my Troll image above....where the feet and the prop ( which also has SSS applied )
    meet you can see it bleeding out quite a bit.

    I'm going to guess and assume you have them in different SSS ID groups, but mentioning it, just in case.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 8,787
    edited December 1969

    Are there any way to convert Poser SSS maps to be used with this shader?
    That will be awesome - there are already many characters coming with them.

  • Laticis ImageryLaticis Imagery Posts: 439
    edited December 1969

    MAB said:
    Laticis said:
    Zev0 said:
    When my ss character is against another ss character, there is a glow where the shadow is...almost like somebody used the highlight brush in photoshop on that area. What setting removes it?

    That is a good question Zev0

    That result you are talking about is also visible on my Troll image above....where the feet and the prop ( which also has SSS applied )
    meet you can see it bleeding out quite a bit.

    I'm going to guess and assume you have them in different SSS ID groups, but mentioning it, just in case.

    Well in my case that would be a no...my bad :(

  • Laticis ImageryLaticis Imagery Posts: 439
    edited June 2013

    Just so the difference can be seen...

    Also shows keeping items on the same Group ID can have a very useful ambient effect.

    2.jpg
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    1.jpg
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    Post edited by Laticis Imagery on
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,045
    edited June 2013

    Yep that's the glow alright...looks weird on skin with contact surfaces in shadow areas.

    Post edited by Zev0 on
  • TJohnTJohn Posts: 11,010
    edited June 2013

    Laticis said:
    tjohn said:
    Laticis said:
    Experimenting...a Caramel Troll

    That's so sweet and horrible. I wish there was a way to easily duplicate those settings. Great work!

    LOL - Thanks :)

    Most was preset, I applied the Pink Plastic while holding down CTRL and ignored, the rest trial and error.

    These are the settings.
    So cool. Thanks for sharing. Caramel apples now? (photo, not a render)

    ETA: Posted that photo to show how close to the real thing your settings are.

    caramel_apple.jpg
    616 x 462 - 39K
    Post edited by TJohn on
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,
    Can anyone help me understand why I'm getting big square blocks on my lampshade?

    Example below; the lamp is the Square Lamp from Light the Way...

    My workflow is as follows:
    Determined that the shade is two sided, and I verified in Hexagon that the normals are pointing correctly (the inner surface points inward, the outer surface points outward). However it's one single surface, and applying SSS to it did not seem to work, so I broke it into two surfaces.

    Using the Polygon Group Editor, I selected the inner polygons of the lampshade, and created a 'Shade Inner' surface. Then I did the same for the outer part of the lampshade, creating a 'Shade Outer'.

    I copied the surface from the 'all in one' surface, and pasted it to each of the other surfaces, so it would retain the diffuse and other maps.

    I then hid (using Opacity) the 'all in one' surface, and applied SSS Base to the inner and outer.

    I switched 'Subsurface Off - On' to 'On' for both surfaces, and rendered it.

    These large square blocks showed up, so my first instinct was to go for Shading Rate and bump it up, thinking it might be similar to the 'Samples' for other shaders, but it made no change to the end output.

    Any hints from here?

    This is already better than I'd gotten with any other method, and I'm thrilled that it looks like an actual translucent lampshade, but I'd just love to get rid of those blocky parts...

    Thanks muchly!

    -- Morgan

    WIP_SSS_Lampshade.png
    512 x 512 - 135K
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,634
    edited December 1969

    What are your SSS Shading Rate and SSS Scake Values and what is the Max Ray Trace Depth and Shade Rate set to in the Advanced Render settings?

  • NeilV_1NeilV_1 Posts: 442
    edited December 1969

    on the shader you need to look at Group ID Shading Rate, Shading scale that is what is causing this weird effect.


    First thing I would try is changing the Group ID to 4 and set Shading Scale to 0.50 and give that a try.

    you can give the Shading Rate a smaller number but I would leave that for this moment.

  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited June 2013

    Greetings,
    SSS Shading Rate: 32 (that's the one I bumped up)
    SSS Shading Scale: 0.10 (default)

    Max Ray Trace Depth: 5
    Shading Rate: 0.10
    (Pixel Samples X/Y are 64, Shadow Samples are 32)

    I'll re-render with some of those changes (slow machine) but here are two more images that make it a little weirder... The straight-on render barely has any large blocking at all, but the edge-on (and a little closer) render has tons of it.

    The other lamp is the 'default' lamp, showing the flat outside effect I'm trying to avoid. Both lamps have a (supplied by Light the Way) point light inside them at 75% intensity.

    Off to render with tweaked group and shading scale values...

    -- Morgan

    WIP_SSS_Lampshade_3.png
    512 x 512 - 208K
    WIP_SSS_Lampshade_2.png
    512 x 512 - 133K
    Post edited by CypherFOX on
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,
    So...making the group ID be 4 inside, but 1 outside made the outer section completely black (render not included, as I cancelled it) so I'm guessing that's not what you meant.

    Setting the inner and outer to be group id 4, and have shading scale of 0.5 definitely changed the behavior (see image).

    It's pretty good, although it seems to have lost all the lampshade texture, but I'll play with it. I recall reading a warning that SSS loses fine detail, or something like that, so it might be the price paid in exchange for getting a good looking lampshade.

    Thank very much for the help!

    -- Morgan

    WIP_SSS_Lampshade_4.png
    500 x 500 - 144K
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 96,737
    edited December 1969

    Cypherfox said:
    It's pretty good, although it seems to have lost all the lampshade texture, but I'll play with it. I recall reading a warning that SSS loses fine detail, or something like that, so it might be the price paid in exchange for getting a good looking lampshade.

    Try changing the Pre/Post SSS option to Post if it's currently Pre to preserve more detail.

  • mario.cicalese2_d6b65131dbmario.cicalese2_d6b65131db Posts: 203
    edited December 1969

    Hi, am I doing something wrong? Look at this picture please: http://i41.tinypic.com/2rg2c02.jpg as you can see, after applying the toon shader, the eyebrows are almost invisible...

    Here are my steps:

    1) Load the "Skin Porcelain" from the Toon Skins pressing CTRL and selecting "Images: ignore"
    2) Lip Gloss Natural
    3) Quality 5 Very Hihgh
    4) Velvet Off

    Any ideas, please?

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 96,737
    edited December 1969

    I suspect my answer to Cypherfox applies here too, but of course changing the setting will also lose the smoothness of the toon look so you will have to weigh your options.

  • mario.cicalese2_d6b65131dbmario.cicalese2_d6b65131db Posts: 203
    edited December 1969

    It's better, thanks:)

  • mark128mark128 Posts: 1,029
    edited December 1969

    I have been working with Tori for V5 (http://www.daz3d.com/tori-for-v5). The default material uses the standard shader with quite a bit of pink ambient light which gives the skin the pink glow in the promo images.

    I have been adjusting this in the AoA shader, and this is where I have gotten so far. I turned the ambient off. The SSS is the Skin A low preset from the Subsurface Toolbox (SST). The specular is the SST SkinC preset, but with strength reduced. The Velvet is the SST Skin A low preset, but since there isn't any color, I'm not sure it is really doing anything. The Diffusion color was set to be 230,245,255 to try to compensate for the SSS and keep her skin light colored.

    The other new thing I'm trying is gamma correction. This is a gamma 2.2 render.

    tori_aoa_gamma_2_2_velvet_skinA_low.jpg
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    aoa_settings.jpg
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  • Laticis ImageryLaticis Imagery Posts: 439
    edited December 1969

    tjohn said:
    Laticis said:
    tjohn said:
    Laticis said:
    Experimenting...a Caramel Troll

    That's so sweet and horrible. I wish there was a way to easily duplicate those settings. Great work!

    LOL - Thanks :)

    Most was preset, I applied the Pink Plastic while holding down CTRL and ignored, the rest trial and error.

    These are the settings.
    So cool. Thanks for sharing. Caramel apples now? (photo, not a render)

    ETA: Posted that photo to show how close to the real thing your settings are.

    No probs at all, if only there was an easier way the share presets over the forums.

    That looks so yummy BTW :)

  • Laticis ImageryLaticis Imagery Posts: 439
    edited December 1969

    Zev0 said:
    Yep that's the glow alright...looks weird on skin with contact surfaces in shadow areas.

    Yes it does...not sure there is a way around that yet...maybe SSS maps.

  • SassyWenchSassyWench Posts: 602
    edited December 1969

    Age of Armour, the shaders are just super! And DimensionTheory, the toolbox is the perfect compliment to the shaders! :)

    This is what I came up with. :)

    EnamoreSSS.jpg
    1600 x 1200 - 925K
  • Laticis ImageryLaticis Imagery Posts: 439
    edited December 1969

    Another test..don't forget about AoA Glass Shaders too.

    The_SSS_Ball.jpg
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  • NeilV_1NeilV_1 Posts: 442
    edited December 1969

    Cypherfox I had a little Play around this Morning using the toolbox I add the following settings to the lampshade surface

    I used SSS = !-SkinB-High then Velvet = 1-Velvet-SkinB-Mid and Specularity = 4-LeatherD

    I also set ambient colour to 255-255-128 set Ambient SSS contribution to 150% and Ambient strength to 35%

    and this is what I got (this is rendered with no lights)

    Lamp.jpg
    600 x 800 - 92K
  • Zev0Zev0 Posts: 7,045
    edited December 1969

    Laticis said:
    Zev0 said:
    Yep that's the glow alright...looks weird on skin with contact surfaces in shadow areas.

    Yes it does...not sure there is a way around that yet...maybe SSS maps. Nooo....:( I dont want to use maps lol...

  • Melissa ConwayMelissa Conway Posts: 590
    edited December 1969

    After days of tinkering, I think I'm satisfied (if that's even possible!) This is V5 Valerie and M5 Dave. If anyone is interested in my lighting and settings, I'll post those.

    M.

    27.png
    1920 x 1080 - 3M
  • oddoneoutoddoneout Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Melissa Conway said:
    After days of tinkering, I think I'm satisfied (if that's even possible!) This is V5 Valerie and M5 Dave. If anyone is interested in my lighting and settings, I'll post those.

    M.


    What were your specular settings? Like the nice sheen you've got.


    I'm slowly getting there with my test renders. Will be a while before I have anything worth showing IMO. Still working mainly on eyes, teeth, nostrils and the all important specular settings. Using the Tynashe textures, not used to working with highlights on darker skin.

  • Melissa ConwayMelissa Conway Posts: 590
    edited December 1969

    Specular color: white
    Specular glossiness 75% for Val, 70% for Dave
    Specular noise density 25 for Val, .25 for Dave
    Specular noise strength 50% for Val, 70% for Dave
    Specular strength 15% for both
    Specular color 220/236/255 for both
    Specular 2 glossiness 95% for Val, 70% for Dave
    Specular 2 Strength 15% for both

  • DimensionTheoryDimensionTheory Posts: 434
    edited June 2013

    Here's a render I'd been working on. Just a bald V4 morphed Gen with Reby textures but I'm only playing with the skin lol.

    Reby.jpg
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    Post edited by DimensionTheory on
  • Kyu2130Kyu2130 Posts: 97
    edited December 1969

    DimensionTheory said:
    Here's a render I'd been working on. Just a bald V4 morphed Gen with Reby textures but I'm only playing with the skin lol.

    i want those settings!!!! that looks really really good.

  • Kevin SandersonKevin Sanderson Posts: 1,643
    edited December 1969

    kyu2130 said:
    DimensionTheory said:
    Here's a render I'd been working on. Just a bald V4 morphed Gen with Reby textures but I'm only playing with the skin lol.

    i want those settings!!!! that looks really really good.

    That looks good, DT. I like that and the one with the nice lighting Slide3D showed us http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/22193/P105/#330158

    Virtual_World's work on teeth, skin and eyes http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/22193/P315/#337975

    And Laticis' efforts http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/22193/P285/#335685

  • Age of ArmourAge of Armour Posts: 437
    edited December 1969

    Wow! Some spectacular renders everyone! SSS is inherently confusing but It looks like people are starting to get the hang of it.

    Zev0 said:
    When my ss character is against another ss character, there is a glow where the shadow is...almost like somebody used the highlight brush in photoshop on that area. What setting removes it?

    Select all the skin surfaces of the second character and change the group ID to something different than what is in the first character. It ac be any whole number. Try 33 (first number that popped into my head) or something and see if that helps.

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