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The AoA's Advanced DAZ Studio Light Bundle is at Fast Grab right now, so anyone into 3Delight should grab it, fast!
Tip: read through AoA's excellent documentation included with their product for some very good advices!
Thanks, but tried all that (see thread in Nuts&Bolts, didn't want to repeat it all in here) - I've got a 360-degree skydome for 3DL, it reflects just fine in the mirror if I move the camera, but the balls stay dark, despite having the same settings).
But as I'm playing with it now - flipping the normals with the geometry editor has led to progress (weird, as a default DS sphere primitive was also misbehaving).
...that is another reason, besides improved render speeds, why I took to using it in lieu of UE. It was extremely easy to learn as his documentation is very concise and to the point.
..that is odd.
...OK set up a short test., Created a sphere primitive and put it in an enclosed room (the old Stateroom which has 3DL shaders). Used one AoA Ambient light (at 50%) and one AoA spotlight (100%) set to 360° spread (essentially making it a point light) by the central ceiling lamp. Shadows were set to 20% softness with shadow colour 34, 34, 34, nd all settings at default.
I flagged the sphere to not be illuminated by the Ambient light as it was creating a secondary light source in the reflection that didn't look right. UE would have taken too long to do this test.
With just a bit of experimentation I approximated a smooth silver surface with the following settings (I have skill in actually creating shaders).
Lighting model Glossy (Plastic) Using Glossy (Metal) made the sphere turn black during rendering (similar to what you experienced)
Diffuse colour 46, 42, 43
Glossiness: 75%
Specular colour 255, 255, 255
Specular Strength: 100%
Negative bump -.3
Positive bump .3
Reflection Colour: 230, 232, 250
Reflection Strength: 100%
In Open GL it looked black and featureless
In the rendered image (below) the reflection worked fine as you can see.
Didn't have to flip normals or anything like that.
Apologies, Yeah, I probably should have posted this to the Nuts & Bolts forum but already posted a suggestion here to fix this.
Thanks for that - The glossy-plastic shader setting seems to be the one that did the trick! All those settings I was fiddling with and it comes down to one button LOL
Ah okay, fair point. The discussion has moved far enough from the PA support, I wasn't really thinking about that anymore LOL
Do you have any examples of this BTW?
Well, some myths cannot be dispelled sadly =(
But energy conservation by hand? Yeah we can use proper reflectance, but if a compiled shader just does diffuse() + specular() + subsurface(), there's no way the user can change it to be energy-conserving. Same for Fresnel, either the code accounts for it or not.
UberSurface is pretty much oldschool additive, same as AFAIK each and every vanilla shader and AoA Subsurface.
Not to say you cannot approximate a photoreal look with that tech - you can and it's been done for decades in VFX. But there is, as people say, a steep learning curve for that stuff.
To be honest, the way DS defaults seem to encourage the userbase to use Iray - dialing sunsky intensity down to 10% and leaving all the reflectance multipliers at 1 to match some exposure value instead of calibrating at full sunsky and Sunny 16, remembering that 0.7 is a damn high reflectance already - isn't exactly conducive to proper PBS either. I'm actually amazed that there are people who manage to create impressive renders with this sort of starting point.
Hi,
Sorry for critiquing an "unsolicited" aspect of that promo, but it seems there is no shadows on the 3Delight side and no AO. Is that intentional?
.
I liked 8.0.
I wasn't a fan of 8.1, the changes were annoying; I don't like w10 particularly. I'd prefer a combination of 7 and 8. No 10 is most definitely not that.
I like change, I like options, sadly, I don't always like what the change engenders, but that same change will eventually bring along something I like as much or more, whilst giving me access to new 'stuff'.
Completely back on topic:
A one size fits all shader system would never work, and would pretty quickly sprout off-shoots as folks tweaked it to suite their own requirements.
Like I said, there are a total of 78 individual surface settings in the D|S Iray shader system. I can't imagine that's not enough of an "all-in-one" to cover just about all of our needs, and accurately describe the VAST majority of surfaces we'd want to model. Heck, I have trouble even understanding more than maybe 10 of those settings, much less being an expert in how to apply them. Though maybe some of us really need another 20 settings to get that last 1.5% accuracy
Nope; was not a fan of Windows 8 on a desktop/laptop. Now, put that on a two in one laptop/tablet setup, I wouldn't mind so much, or on a smartphone.
Agreed.
Right.
Straying OT, but that is good timing.
Paid close to full price for it a week ago.
"Aw man! Charlie Brown Christmas. I been had!"
Good product & docs regardless the price : )
Contact sales support! Worth a try;)
..glad that helped. Yeah a lot of times it's always soemthing small that thwarts one's plans.
That's okay, I'm always happy to receive constructive critique - but it's not a promo ;)
It was a quick render to test the mirror settings - iray does the shadows automatically, 3DL needs them set up. The freebie thread (link in sig) has a slightly better version with the shadows on - though I'm a bit out of practise and behind on the latest 3DL developments.
Not everyone wants to do photo-realistic renders, nor do a lot of folks have the funds needed to upgrade to, or a desire to buy another, computer that supports Iray. And as has been stated by a number of folks, much of what Iray does can be duplicated in 3Delight, plus folks that use Reality/LuxRender can simply convert existing 3Delight shaders to work for PBR rendering. Other folks use Octane, and are comfortable with creating their own shader settings for that renderer.
BTW- The Lantios IBLs work very well in Iray once enlarged a bit and converted to HDR (32 bit). What this about a new extension for 3DL? I'll have to look into that!
Edit/Add: I've been through a few posts and cannot find info about the new 3DL extension. Could you post a link here or send a PM?
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/215066/ibl-master-image-based-lighting-control-for-both-renderers-a-new-ibl-for-3delight-commercial/p1
Wowie talking about his WIP shader on this page
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/55128/3delight-laboratory-thread-tips-questions-experiments/p78
...
...the tests I did to help Silent Winnter took less than one minute to complete in 3DL.
Hi kyoto, I'm a bit confused about why I don't get the same results as you and Silent winter. So did a new test which can be seen here:https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/219901/mirrored-sphere-in-3dl#latest
Any idea what's going on?
...my test used a fully closed interior set to get 360° of reflection. Not sure why the Glossy Metallic setting worked for you but not us. I also had to flag the sphere to not be illuminated by the ambient light as it added an odd refection in the middle of the sphere. I also used raytraced shadows.with a ray depth of 4 because the spotlight was in a glass light globe.
Moving this discussion over to the thread in your link.
Ah okay. That was the headlamp then. The evil headlamp.
In terms of DS/3Delight, there have been no developments for quite a while, so you probably didn't miss out on anything.
Sorry, but... the point? You're just increasing the file size; missing dynamic range information isn't going to get reconstructed out of nowhere.
If you had a look at MDL you mostly manipulate preprogrammed blocks. You don't write anything from scratch.
With 3DL you have total freedom. with MDL you're very bound to what was put inside. Everything you use is submitted to Physically Correct/Plausible which can be a great pain if that's not what you want
Think about the Ambient in RSL. That is already something that breaks physical laws.
Quick example of difficult to to shader in MDL but ultra easy in RSL would be a Ghost or X-Ray shader.
That was aproximately what Wowie was doing with his presets if I'm not mistaken. Not easy and painfull I agree
The Question is wether the actual default settings should be changed. Time has passed and some base settings could be changed but I'm not sure it would be a good thing here. That is not a bad thing that you have (for example) to activate Gamma correction. People who know what it is and want to use it will activate it. Others who don't, may ask questions and learn something
...moved to the other 3DL thread.
I guess you're right about ghost shaders. I'd say the reason for this is that we have two different CG domains that only have started to overlap recently: archviz and VFX. MDL is very much an archviz thing; RSL was born in the VFX industry. For archviz situations, MDL pretty much covers it all.
RSL is the past; OSL is the future, anyway =) As of now.
I just wish this information would be more public - gamma correction included. More "official" on the DAZ part. A lot of users just trust the defaults thinking they are the best values "because the company who makes this app knows better". We had to wait until Parris started pushing linear workflow - and even now I'm sure there are people rendering in 3Delight but disregarding gamma correction because they never went to read the forums.
I don't follow Iray threads, but judging by what I see discussed on deviantArt, most users have no idea what reflectance is and why it cannot be RGB255 in a photorealistic scenario; they have no idea proper reflectance will improve their noise issues; they don't know how to use the tonemapper; they know very very little. And they teach each other because there is no Official DAZ Studio College with a well-developed step-by-step program.
This is very sad IMO.
Truly. It actually took me longer to develop 3Delight settings for my first character sets for Dusk and Dawn (Tommy and Tina). I was immediately happy with my results using iRAY with some small barriers for the eye gleams and lip glosses but quickly got those set up after some research and tests. Getting similar results for skin, nails and eyes in 3Delight is NOT THAT EASY and I started out with DAZ Studio when it was in beta and using 3Delight as it's main rendering engine. I'll continue to support 3Delight but it is allot more work to create settings that resemble iRAY settings.
I think a common misconception, when we do the Iray vs 3delight thing here in the forums, is that we mistake a render engine's capabilities with it's implementation, and more importantly light and surface shaders that are available for said engine. In my observation, the Iray Uber shader is a state of the art master work by a professionally trained programmer (or programmers) who had access to undocumented inner workings. In contrast, the 3DL light and surface shaders most commonly used by most PAs and users, while masterful for their time, are largely the result of partially blind testing and educated guesses.
The default 3DL shader offered by Daz is a solid all purpose offering. But I think it was made with the intention that Shader Builder and Shader Mixer would inspire creation of more advanced shaders.
Most PAs already have enough on their plates without having to write their own shaders. Given 3delight's current support of physically based, I would speculate that shaders on par with Iray Uber would prove to be similarly easy to implement if we had them.
This may be over simplifying to some degree, but in general the 3 main ingredients to matching the realism you see in an engine such as Iray are Linear Worlflow (Gamma correction which Iray does by default), Global Illumination (IBL as an example), and physically based surface shaders. At this point (or shortly) we are two thirds of the way there with 3delight in Daz Studio.
A reminder about GC:
More than lilkely your textures that didn't look right were not made properly with a linear workflow using a gamma of 2.2