[Released] IBL Master - Image Based Lighting control for both renderers & a new IBL for 3Delight

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Comments

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 3,494
    edited July 2018

    Just wondering: has .123 affected IBL Master for anyone else? I just realized that the Iray HDR preview in the workspace has disappeared, for no reason that I can see.

    I was using it under .107, and everything was fine. Then I upgraded to .123, and things were weird. I was having to turn off the 3DL Uber Environment sphere, which I'd never seen in the workspace before (it's in the Scene menu and always has been, but I guess it was off by defualt, or else it just never showed up in the workspace somehow). Otherwise, the textures from the HDR appear in a way that means that i have to move closer to get inside Uber Envirornment, or resize the sphere.

    When I turn off the 3DL Uber Environment sphere object with the eyeball in the Scene menu, I realized that I no longer have a preview of the HDR in the workspace. It's still in the master control, in a wee tiny (relatively) version but that's not hugely helpful.

    I'll try reinstalling it, I guess, but I was wondering if anyone else was seeing this issue.

    (The trip form .107 to .123 has been ... interesting. Yes, that's the word. "Interesting.")

    Post edited by vwrangler on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,171

    The documentation says the minimum supported version is 4.10.0.113, so the behavior you were familiar with in 107 may be "wrong".  I think it is working correctly in 4.10.0.123, as far as I can tell. The description you gave sounds "right" to me. The 3DLEnvSphere provides the viewport preview of what part of the HDRI will be visible in the Iray render. I think the 3DLEnvSphere has always been visible by default.Do you have your camera far away from world center, putting it outside the 3DLEnvSphere? As you mentioned, you can resize that sphere. Both Dome Radius and Dome Scale Multiplier can be adjusted to get back "inside" the sphere and correctly see the part of the HDRI that will be rendered.

    The  ControlSphere is a small sphere showing the HDRI so you can orient it to put the sun where you want it. It will be tiny if your camera is very far away. Have you tried just scaling it larger in the Parameters pane? That might affect the behavior of the boost lights. I haven't tested that. I did have problems with moving the sphere, but I don't remember the details. I just got into the habit of putting it back to default position before rendering, if I move it to see my scene elements.

  • vwranglervwrangler Posts: 3,494

    Huh. OK, maybe the Studio version was the issue, then. Until now, every time I used it -- assuming that what I was seeing was the 3DL Env Sphere -- it came into the scene expanded out hugely by default. I thought that was what it was supposed to be doing, so it as a surprise to have it suddenly start being much smaller, so that I was always outside it when I was in Perspective View.

    I don't really have a problem with the size of the control sphere. I just meant that it was small relative to the 3DLEnvSphere.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 6,455
    vwrangler said:

    Huh. OK, maybe the Studio version was the issue, then. Until now, every time I used it -- assuming that what I was seeing was the 3DL Env Sphere -- it came into the scene expanded out hugely by default. I thought that was what it was supposed to be doing, so it as a surprise to have it suddenly start being much smaller, so that I was always outside it when I was in Perspective View.

    I don't really have a problem with the size of the control sphere. I just meant that it was small relative to the 3DLEnvSphere.

    I've been using this today in version 4.10.0.123, not sure if I've used it before since updating DS and I'm also getting the 'dome' small, unfortunately this is really causing me problems with getting the view correct, if I had been aware that this is how it should work then I would have returned it, having to shrink things down to under 20% of their size is irratating.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,171
    The dome is not small for me unless I move my camera way way out. Can you show a screenshot? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you and vwrangler are describing. I'm away from home now, but later today I can post a screenshot of what I see.
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,171
    edited July 2018

    I had an idea about why you might be seeing the dome look small. The IBL Master sets the dome to Finite Sphere. If you have your Dome Scale Multiplier or Dome Radius set to a small number, that might be affecting what you see. It could also be HDRI dependent, I suppose. In this test I am using an HDRI from HDRI Haven called Symmetrical Garden. That is Victoria 8 at 100% scale for reference.

    This is the screenshot of my viewport.

    This is the corresponding render.

    IBL Master Viewport.JPG
    1047 x 1203 - 162K
    IBL Master Test Render.jpg
    1000 x 1000 - 810K
    Post edited by barbult on
  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 6,455

    This is what I'm getting

    First image is the viewport and second is the render

    IBLmaster1.JPG
    666 x 478 - 38K
    IBLmaster2.JPG
    1248 x 578 - 138K
  • ParrisParris Posts: 389
    edited July 2018
    scorpio said:

    This is what I'm getting

    First image is the viewport and second is the render

    Ok,based on the subject matter or your scene (space station), I'm going to guess that Victoria would be ant sized in the viewport. So the issue you are having is one of relative scale, as Barbult was demonstrating. IBL Master is finite and relative because HDRIs are finite and relative - meaning the HDRI you are using could be as large as the universe or as small as your bathroom and neither IBL Master nor DAZ Studio would have any way of anticipating what scale you want for your scene. This means that if you want to use an HDRI as a background in any scene, any program, you're probably going to have to fudge the scale to what looks right to you from a given camera. So if scaling your space station and possibly other objects that you already have at unified scale is a pain (though you could group them), then you may want to scale the dome instead.

    There are several ways to do that which will still keep Iray, IBLMaster, and 3Delight in sync. I would guess by your render that you are using Iray. So on the Render Settings tab > Environment you can adjust Dome Scale Multiplier or Dome Radius to your liking. You could also do this by selecting IBL Master Control in the Scene tab, then on Parameters tab > IBL Master Control > 3DL Background > and adjusting 3DL Sphere Radius or 3DL Sphere Scale Multiplier. These parameters for Iray Render Settings and IBL Master are tied to one another, so changing it in one place will update the values in the other.

    One other thing you could do is set Dome Mode back to Infinite Sphere (in Iray Render Settings > Environment). But then you will only be able to rotate the dome, you won't be able to scale it or translate it. This is a limitation of Invidia Iray, not of IBL Master or Daz Studio.

    I hope that helps.

    As far as I can tell though, from my own tests and other reports, IBL Master is still functioning correctly with Daz Studio Version 4.10.0.123.

    Post edited by Parris on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,069
    edited September 2018

    This is the second time that I've almost purchased IBL Master... but a statement on the product page put the kaibosh on that for me - "...The Minimum supported version of Daz Studio is 4.10.0.113...".

    That puzzled be because I didn't think that DS had even reached 4.10 when IBL Master was released, based on the following (and I may well be wrong here):

    • My own June 2018 download/installation of DS - DS4.8.0.59 (via manual download/install) was I believe the latest production version, and DS4.9.4.117 (via DIM) was the version available on the beta channel
    • IBL Master's release date was only 5 months later, in November 2017, judging from the first few posts in this thread.

    So the question is - is that min spec correct ?

     

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • This is the second time that I've almost purchased IBL Master... but a statement on the product page put the kaibosh on that for me - "...The Minimum supported version of Daz Studio is 4.10.0.113...".

    That puzzled be because I didn't think that DS had even reached 4.10 when IBL Master was released, based on the following (and I may well be wrong here):

    • My own June 2018 download/installation of DS - DS4.8.0.59 (via manual download/install) was I believe the latest production version, and DS4.9.4.117 (via DIM) was the version available on the beta channel
    • IBL Master's release date was only 5 months later, in November 2017, judging from the first few posts in this thread.

    So the question is - is that min spec correct ?

    4.10 has been out for a while now :)

    Here you can see and download the latest version:
    https://www.daz3d.com/get_studio

     

  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,069
    edited September 2018
    Paintbox said:

    4.10 has been out for a while now :)

    Here you can see and download the latest version:
    https://www.daz3d.com/get_studio

    Thanks - Yep, I know that - but how long a while? smiley

    (I got fed up with continually having to download the latest version back around DS4.5)

    Edit: I guess I'm really asking whether (a) DS4.10.0.133 was actually the production build available in November 2017, or (b) IBL Master was originally released for DS4.9, but has been modified since its original release and now requires the later version of DS. That's a question for Parris I guess?

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 4,588
    edited September 2018

    This is the second time that I've almost purchased IBL Master... but a statement on the product page put the kaibosh on that for me - "...The Minimum supported version of Daz Studio is 4.10.0.113...".

    That puzzled be because I didn't think that DS had even reached 4.10 when IBL Master was released, based on the following (and I may well be wrong here):

    • My own June 2018 download/installation of DS - DS4.8.0.59 (via manual download/install) was I believe the latest production version, and DS4.9.4.117 (via DIM) was the version available on the beta channel
    • IBL Master's release date was only 5 months later, in November 2017, judging from the first few posts in this thread.

    So the question is - is that min spec correct ?

     

    IBL Master was released on December 29th 2017.

    DS 4.10.0.123 apparently became the general release on December 8th 2017 according to this: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/206696/daz-studio-4-10-pro-general-release-updated (Page 1 has a date of release quoted at the top). So I guess the IBL Master product was developed on 10.0.113 as suggested on the product page?

    I don't have a personal record of when DS 4.10.0.113 was the release, but I do know (I have a screenprint) that DS 4.10.0.107 became the general release on October 26th 2017. The DS 4.10.0.113 BETA was November 3rd the 118 BETA on November 17th (so 113 General Release should have been somewhere between those dates).

    [Edit to correct product name and some mistyped dates!]

    Post edited by MelanieL on
  • 3dcheapskate3dcheapskate Posts: 2,069
    edited September 2018
    MelanieL said:

    This is the second time that I've almost purchased IBL Master... but a statement on the product page put the kaibosh on that for me - "...The Minimum supported version of Daz Studio is 4.10.0.113...".

    That puzzled be because I didn't think that DS had even reached 4.10 when IBL Master was released, based on the following (and I may well be wrong here):

    • My own June 2018 download/installation of DS - DS4.8.0.59 (via manual download/install) was I believe the latest production version, and DS4.9.4.117 (via DIM) was the version available on the beta channel
    • IBL Master's release date was only 5 months later, in November 2017, judging from the first few posts in this thread.

    So the question is - is that min spec correct ?

     

    IBL Master was released on December 29th 2017.

    DS 4.10.0.123 apparently became the general release on December 8th 2017 according to this: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/206696/daz-studio-4-10-pro-general-release-updated (Page 1 has a date of release quoted at the top). So I guess the IBL Master product was developed on 10.0.113 as suggested on the product page?

    I don't have a personal record of when DS 4.10.0.113 was the release, but I do know (I have a screenprint) that DS 4.10.0.107 became the general release on October 26th 2017. The DS 4.10.0.113 BETA was November 3rd the 118 BETA on November 17th (so 113 General Release should have been somewhere between those dates).

    [Edit to correct product name and some mistyped dates!]

    Thanks (I've double-checked and I'd actually used an old mid-2015 DS4.8 installer* ! The latest production build in June 2017 must've been DS4.9.something)

    Has anybody tried using IBL Master on DS4.8/9 ? I guess not.

    *I now recall that I was happy enough with DS4.8, and had an aversion to upgrading to 4.9.

    Post edited by 3dcheapskate on
  • ParrisParris Posts: 389

    Has anybody tried using IBL Master on DS4.8/9 ? I guess not.

    Hi 3dcheapskate,

    Yes, the minimum spec of 4.10.0.113 is correct. Others who tried to use IBL Master on earlier versions have shared their unhappiness in this forum, though you have to go back a few pages.

    Personally, because I am a 3Delight user, I would not buy the product if I didn't have the minimum version installed. Here's why - With any light I use, I want reliable control over the lighting direction. That is simply not possible with any IBL light for Daz Studio's version of 3Delight prior to 4.10.0.113 and IBL Master. It's like playing the slots at a casino every time you render - if you get really lucky you might win the lighting direction you were hoping for. Though the cause of this issue (a problem with coordinate space coversion) is not well known, the confusing/frustrating results are well documented in the post you created about Uber Environment 2. Put simply, in order for DS and 3Delight to play nice in this respect, Daz's programmers had to make changes to the program which allowed a 3rd party developer like me to send the proper commands to the renderer. It was impossible before that.

    I hope this helps with your decision and curiosity, but please let me know if you need more information. Take care.

  • Parris said:
     It was impossible before that.

    Just for the sake of scientific truth: what you say is true about the "vanilla" render settings tab. But the "scripted rendering" mode has had an option to create and use custom coordinate systems for quite a long while.

  • First of all Parris thank you very much for create this amazing product and hello everybody :) !!!

    I'm a new owner of it, bought only on monday. I'd like to post a 3Delight render with my hardware configuration (maybe is useful to know and for compare...it will be interesting to create a "benchmark" file to download and after use for compare different configuration for 3Delight render).

    So my PC assembled by me 10 days ago is: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X on ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero, 2x16Gb HyperX DDR-4 2666MHz, Crucial MX500 500Gb SSD, WD Blue 1Tb 2.5" HDD, MSI GeForce GTX 960 Gaming 4GB (only old part in my configuration), CoolerMaster Nepton 280L for cooling CPU, everything inside a CoolerMaster HAF XB EVO.

    Resolution Full HD 1920x1080

    Rendering total time: 3'15" (optimizing images 1'28" + pure rendering time 1'47") HDRI colosseum from HDRI Haven, just charged scene, character and add IBL, rotate for obtain a preview light that looks interesting for me and hit Render (gamma on 2.2).

    I've lot to learn because I think this product has lot of power that need to discover.

    Advice and criticism are welcome

    Ciao from Italy!!!

    test 1 3Delight.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 4,219

    First of all Parris thank you very much for create this amazing product and hello everybody :) !!!

    I'm a new owner of it, bought only on monday. I'd like to post a 3Delight render with my hardware configuration (maybe is useful to know and for compare...it will be interesting to create a "benchmark" file to download and after use for compare different configuration for 3Delight render).

    So my PC assembled by me 10 days ago is: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X on ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero, 2x16Gb HyperX DDR-4 2666MHz, Crucial MX500 500Gb SSD, WD Blue 1Tb 2.5" HDD, MSI GeForce GTX 960 Gaming 4GB (only old part in my configuration), CoolerMaster Nepton 280L for cooling CPU, everything inside a CoolerMaster HAF XB EVO.

    Resolution Full HD 1920x1080

    Rendering total time: 3'15" (optimizing images 1'28" + pure rendering time 1'47") HDRI colosseum from HDRI Haven, just charged scene, character and add IBL, rotate for obtain a preview light that looks interesting for me and hit Render (gamma on 2.2).

    I've lot to learn because I think this product has lot of power that need to discover.

    Advice and criticism are welcome

    Ciao from Italy!!!

    And hello to you too;) Yeah this product has really given 3DL a lift, I love it! Nice render, you're off for a good start! I'ts a bit dark in my opinion, generally I've found you need to increase the light intesity (depending on the HDRI being used) to atleast the maximum 5, you can turn limits off and crank it up as high as you need. This can be handy if you use a low range image like a jpeg or similar, which hasn't the dynamic range of a true HDRI. Happy rendering!

  • ChoppskiChoppski Posts: 221

    I posted this in the DAZ technical forum, I am having serious issues with the HDRI files not being really clear, especially when I use IBLpro in 3dl, but even in iray. If I use an HDRI preset in HDRI the image is crystal clear, but when I use it in IBLpro there is a slight bur. Even if I manually load the hdri file for 3dl I get a blur. I am mostly interested in using it in 3dl. ANd I have tried all kinds of recommended changes to the render settings. Nothing seems to work. In spot render everything looks fine, but in the actual render the background image is slightly blurry even when a figure meets the ground plane. My only "fix" is to render at like twice the size and then reduce the image which seems to help.

    Just wondering if Parris has any thoughts on this or if I am the only one experiencing this. ANd I am using DS4 10+. I honestly did not notice it for like 6 months, but I went back to older images and it's the same. It is not massive blur, but it is noticable at times especially since any figures or props are so clear. And yes, I have tried higher resolution hdri files. Ironically, some at 16K are blurrier than those at 4 or 8, but all have a slight blur. And I do not have DoF set on my cameras.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 12,171

    If you have zoomed in on the subject, you will be rendering only a small portion of the 16K HDRI in your image. You will have a small number of the HDRI pixels blown up to fill your render window. Remember that the 16K is the full 360 degree sphere. If you are looking at only a tiny part, it doesn't have enough pixels to look sharp. If you zoom out with a short focal length, you will be rendering a much larger part of the HDRI, so it will look sharper. 

  • pavsikakyjpavsikakyj Posts: 48
    edited January 24
    Hi. I picked IBL Master as alternative to Uber Environment2. I render in 3Delight with customized VN shaders. It gives really good results, though some surfaces appear to be quite grainy. So I bought IBLM. But I came across strange issue after installed and tried to use the product. IBLM can’t be the light source itself. When I add it to the scene and render, I got only black silhouettes of the figures with default 3Delight shaders. The figures became visible when I add another light source. Is it a bug or a normal situation?
    Post edited by pavsikakyj on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 4,219
    Hi. I picked IBL Master as alternative to Uber Environment2. I render in 3Delight with customized VN shaders. It gives really good results, though some surfaces appear to be quite grainy. So I bought IBLM. But I came across strange issue after installed and tried to use the product. IBLM can’t be the light source itself. When I add it to the scene and render, I got only black silhouettes of the figures with default 3Delight shaders. The figures became visible when I add another light source. Is it a bug or a normal situation?

    Certainly not normal. Which DS version are you using? Are you rendering in the regular 3DL or scripted 3DL?

  • pavsikakyjpavsikakyj Posts: 48
    edited January 24
    4.10.0.123 and regular 3Delight
    Post edited by pavsikakyj on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 4,219
    4.10.0.123 and regular 3Delight

    I have no idea why this would happen... and this was with the DS default shader? Did you have an HDRI inserted in the env. sphere diffuse color slot? Did you set gamma correction on and gamma to 2.20 in the render settings editor? Did you try to re-launch DS?

  • pavsikakyjpavsikakyj Posts: 48
    edited January 24
    Yes, yes and yes.
    Screenshot_1.jpg
    1220 x 863 - 152K
    Post edited by pavsikakyj on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 4,219
    Yes, yes and yes.

    Ok! A shot in the dark...is the image also inserted in the ambient color slot with pure white and amb. strength at 100%? Couldn't see that from your screenshot. If so, I don't know, you could try sending Parris a PM or contact tech support? What if you just create a primitive sphere with the default mat, is it rendering black? Still rendering black if you swap the hdr for the default RuinsB-500 HDRI?

  • GoneGone Posts: 807

    The 3dlSphere is only providing the background image. You need to put the HDR in the IBLMLight color channel as well.

    The simplest way to manage the HDR is to change it in the CtrlSphere node (base color) since everything is linked by default. This is all explained in the IBLM manual.

  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 4,219
    Gone said:

    The 3dlSphere is only providing the background image. You need to put the HDR in the IBLMLight color channel as well.

    The simplest way to manage the HDR is to change it in the CtrlSphere node (base color) since everything is linked by default. This is all explained in the IBLM manual.

    Tks Gone, I knew I had forgotten something:)

  • pavsikakyjpavsikakyj Posts: 48
    edited January 25
    Still...
    Screenshot_1.jpg
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    Screenshot_2.jpg
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    Screenshot_3.jpg
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    Screenshot_4.jpg
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    Post edited by pavsikakyj on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 4,219
    edited January 25
    Still...

    You are missing all the options for the IBL light.

    Here's what it should look like when you select the light node:

    image

    Try re-installing if you haven't already!

    IBL-master light.png
    375 x 622 - 75K
    Post edited by Sven Dullah on
  • Thank you! I will.
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