[Released] IBL Master - Image Based Lighting control for both renderers & a new IBL for 3Delight

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  • NaviNavi Posts: 443
    Navi said:

    Here is a test render, with the beach HDRs that were released the same day, too just 6 minutes and 30 seconds in Iray. Very happy with IBL Master, as it makes HDRs much easier to handle (no more multiples test renders just to check the hdr rotation and all), but still, I don't like these very sharp shadows HDRs are casting :/ (although the background and light itself are both very nice) , so I think I'll stick with the good old Sun/Sky mode when I can, you have full control on shadows softness with it (sun disk scale dial).

     

    ps : Special thanks to 3d-GHDesign for the props smiley

     

    These particular beach hdris tend to cast very strong shadows. When I used them I cut the ground shadow strength to like half of the default or even less.

    Thank you for the tip, it makes shadows on the ground less noticeable, but it doesn't help with shadows on other part, like on the character's body parts etc. I will make some tests with reflector panels, to see it it can help.

  • LianaLiana Posts: 1,035
    edited January 2018

    The tips are great here! I have been also like some trying to work on some of my older images to see the differences. I have ran into a few 'snags', but I hope to get them figured out. :)

    Post edited by Liana on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    edited January 2018

    I've been working successfully with the Iray features so far, but I need some help with some HDRIs I bought in the Daz Store. When I load one of the HDRI render presets from DimensionTheory's Outdoor Environments, the scale of the visible HDRI preview in the viewport does not match the scale of the HDRI in the render. I think this might be because they set lots of render settings parameters like Dome Radius and Ground Texture Scale. Is there a way to overcome this problem so the preview matches the render and still maintain the way the artist intended the HDRI to look? 

    (These render presets also set Dome Rotation, but I learned from this thread that I should set that to 0 and adjust Dome Orientation Y, and that fixes the alignment direction.)

    I attached a screenshot showing the scale difference between the viewport and the Aux Viewport Iray preview that I turned on to show how it renders. For example, look at the location of the white waves hitting the beach. They cross the girl at the waist in the viewport and at the breast in the render.

    Screenshot 2018-01-01 14.17.36 IBLM Scale.png
    1920 x 1282 - 2M
    Post edited by barbult on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897

    Another question I have is how should I relocate the IBLM sphere in the viewport so I can easily manipulate it? As you can see in the image attachment in my previous question, the ball gets embedded in my scene elements. I'm not sure what to move so I can get the ball in a more convenient location without affecting what actually gets rendered. Thanks for offering such great support in this thread!

  • ParrisParris Posts: 392
    edited January 2018
    barbult said:

    I've been working successfully with the Iray features so far, but I need some help with some HDRIs I bought in the Daz Store. When I load one of the HDRI render presets from DimensionTheory's Outdoor Environments, the scale of the visible HDRI preview in the viewport does not match the scale of the HDRI in the render. I think this might be because they set lots of render settings parameters like Dome Radius and Ground Texture Scale. Is there a way to overcome this problem so the preview matches the render and still maintain the way the artist intended the HDRI to look? 

    (These render presets also set Dome Rotation, but I learned from this thread that I should set that to 0 and adjust Dome Orientation Y, and that fixes the alignment direction.)

     

    Yes, in Iray Render Settings > Environment, Ground Texture Scale is another property you should avoid setting if you want the viewport preview and 3Delight side to stay synced with Iray. Some settings don't have remote control hook ups because there isn't anything logical to hook them up to. Dome Scale Multiplier and Dome Radius are two things I felt were important to hook up, specifically because I saw DT's presets used them.

    If you want a list of exactly what get's remote control, please take a look at the What's Included and Features section on the store page.

    Post edited by Parris on
  • ParrisParris Posts: 392
    barbult said:

    Another question I have is how should I relocate the IBLM sphere in the viewport so I can easily manipulate it? As you can see in the image attachment in my previous question, the ball gets embedded in my scene elements. I'm not sure what to move so I can get the ball in a more convenient location without affecting what actually gets rendered. Thanks for offering such great support in this thread!

    You can move IBL Master Control wherever you want or hide it from the viewport preview. A small move to the side of a figure should not affect the big picture much.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,849

    Plus the ball won't render!  It's just there.  I turn it off in the scene tab.  Render seems fine with it turned off. 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    Parris said:
    barbult said:

    Another question I have is how should I relocate the IBLM sphere in the viewport so I can easily manipulate it? As you can see in the image attachment in my previous question, the ball gets embedded in my scene elements. I'm not sure what to move so I can get the ball in a more convenient location without affecting what actually gets rendered. Thanks for offering such great support in this thread!

    You can move IBL Master Control wherever you want or hide it from the viewport preview. A small move to the side of a figure should not affect the big picture much.

    Thanks for the quick answers. Moving the IBL Master Control, even a little bit, seems to make a lot of difference in the HDIR position in the viewport. (I thought that translation was one of the supported synchronized bidirectional controls.) Am I supposed to move the ControlSphere bone instead to get the sphere away from the scene objects? 

    Screenshot 2018-01-01 IBLM Master Control 000.png
    1987 x 1292 - 2M
    Screenshot 2018-01-01 IBLM Master Control Moved.png
    1981 x 1298 - 2M
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    Parris said:
    barbult said:

    Another question I have is how should I relocate the IBLM sphere in the viewport so I can easily manipulate it? As you can see in the image attachment in my previous question, the ball gets embedded in my scene elements. I'm not sure what to move so I can get the ball in a more convenient location without affecting what actually gets rendered. Thanks for offering such great support in this thread!

    You can move IBL Master Control wherever you want or hide it from the viewport preview. A small move to the side of a figure should not affect the big picture much.

    Thanks for the quick answers. Moving the IBL Master Control, even a little bit, seems to make a lot of difference in the HDIR position in the viewport. (I thought that translation was one of the supported synchronized bidirectional controls.) Am I supposed to move the ControlSphere bone instead to get the sphere away from the scene objects? 

    RAMWolff said:

    Plus the ball won't render!  It's just there.  I turn it off in the scene tab.  Render seems fine with it turned off. 

    I realize the ball doesn't render. That is very nicely handled automatically by this product. I'm trying to access the Master Control ball so I can see where the sun is located and move the boost light controls. When it is embedded in my scene elements, I either have to turn off visibility of the objects in my scene or move the ball. I'm trying to figure this stuff out.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 38,870

    ...just begin able to see how the lighting and HDR is oriented is a big big help. Saves a lot of time wasted in test rendering.

  • I love this product! It was worth the price just to see my HDRI in my workspace without going into nVidia preview mode. I thought I'd share my first render using it. This was in Iray. I really need to look into how it works with 3DL now. Great product! I'm glad you had the video on the sale page because that is what sold it to me.  :)

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548

    This may have been answered already but does this make the 3Delight Skydomes work in Iray?  I'm loving the fact that I can SEE my background in preview mode, I haven't had much time to test it out but that alone is worth its weight in gold.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    edited January 2018

    Here is my finished Iray beach scene. I used one boost light to brighten the model. I've never liked this HDRI, because the model always seemed too dark. IBL Master boost light helps. The sun is pretty much straight overhead, though, so her face is still kind of in the shadows.

    Edited to clarify that this is an Iray render.

    Post edited by barbult on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 38,870

    ...wow that is pretty darn good.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    kyoto kid said:

    ...wow that is pretty darn good.

    That is an Iray render. I can't get this scene to render in 3delight, even after changing the shaders on the objects to 3delight materials. Daz Studio keeps crashing. I'm not sure what is wrong. I changed my boost light from Iray disc to 3delight disk. I rebooted my computer and will try again. It is reminding me of all the reasons I dislike 3delight, like the AoA shader turning my character pure white. Ah,,, the bad old days...

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 38,870
    edited January 2018

    ...interesting so many people having trouble with 3DL and I find it renders quick without an issue.

    BTW here is my first "postable" attempt. Still needs a little adjustment on a few things but the ambient lighting looks more accurate than in the straight 3DL version.  Used Gamma correction with the rate set to 2.2 (had to increase the opacity on Leela's hair as it looked too thin just like it does in Iray).

    Took about only another 9 min to render than the straight 3DL version.

    bus stop 3DL IBL.jpg
    1200 x 900 - 839K
    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • I accidently posted this in the other thread. I meant it for here. 

     

    "I don't think this makes Iray faster. I did a test just doing a basic setup. and both took exactly 1 min 48 seconds.  One with and one without IBL Master.

    I'm using a Nvidia GTX 1060 6gig.

    I need to work on the 3dl images. it's confusing I have a I5 Intel and it's taking almost an hour to even render the image. I don't have that kinda time at the moment to render an image. it hogs my cpu too much."

     

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    edited January 2018

    Well, I guess I'm doing something wrong with the 3Delight setup. I turned on Gamma Correction and set the gamma to 2.2. The HDRI is blown out (too bright) and the character is washed out looking, too. Shadows are not very dark. I don't see any ground shadows at all. I had to delete the hair entirely. Daz Studio would crash every time until I deleted the hair. The Iray version, which looks much better, took less than 10 minutes to render to 100% convergence. The 3Delight render took 26 minutes. 

    Beach scene 3delight.jpg
    2000 x 1500 - 2M
    Post edited by barbult on
  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,486
    edited January 2018
    barbult said:

    Well, I guess I'm doing something wrong with the 3Delight setup. I turned on Gamma Correction and set the gamma to 2.2. The HDRI is blown out (too bright) and the character is washed out looking, too. Shadows are not very dark. I don't see any ground shadows at all. I had to delete the hair entirely. Daz Studio would crash every time until I deleted the hair. The Iray version, which looks much better, took less that 10 minutes to render to 100% convergence. The 3Delight render took 26 minutes. 

    I've been struggling to use 3DL to render LAMH figures using IBL Master as well, @Barbult. I'm excited at the prospect of using 3DL to render my own LAMH critters (since the full paid LAMH plugin is utterly useless as far as the catalyzer for IRay is concerned), but it's been a crash fest for me when the render gets into the hair.

    For me, the crashes have been a mix of display driver crashes/recoveries (fault module nvoglv64.dll) and straight-up BSOD (Page Fault In Nonpaged Area). References to Nonpaged area errors pop-up everywhere if you do a search on the web (with regard to numerous 3D apps). I'm not even sure why paging would be an issue since less than 6GB of system memory were in use at the time, but I've tried defragging my drives, set virtual memory to zero/rebooted/set virtual memory to system managed/rebooted, as well as played with Timeout Detection & Recovery (TDR) settings in the registry - all to no avail.

    Windows 7 Pro with i5 32GB RAM

    1060 with 6GB - 388.71 drivers

    DS 4.10.0.121 beta

    Please be sure to post if you find a solution, and I'll do the same.

    - Greg

    Post edited by algovincian on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 38,870
    edited January 2018
    barbult said:

    Well, I guess I'm doing something wrong with the 3Delight setup. I turned on Gamma Correction and set the gamma to 2.2. The HDRI is blown out (too bright) and the character is washed out looking, too. Shadows are not very dark. I don't see any ground shadows at all. I had to delete the hair entirely. Daz Studio would crash every time until I deleted the hair. The Iray version, which looks much better, took less than 10 minutes to render to 100% convergence. The 3Delight render took 26 minutes. 

    ...do you have a distant light for the sun?

    I used a single AoA Distant light at 80%. 

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897
    edited January 2018
    kyoto kid said:
    barbult said:

    Well, I guess I'm doing something wrong with the 3Delight setup. I turned on Gamma Correction and set the gamma to 2.2. The HDRI is blown out (too bright) and the character is washed out looking, too. Shadows are not very dark. I don't see any ground shadows at all. I had to delete the hair entirely. Daz Studio would crash every time until I deleted the hair. The Iray version, which looks much better, took less than 10 minutes to render to 100% convergence. The 3Delight render took 26 minutes. 

    ...do you have a distant light for the sun?

    No, I don't have any conventional lights in the scene. I have the HDRI and one IBL Master boost light.

    I deleted my IBL Master Control from the scene and added a new one. I reset all of the 3Delight render settings to default except Gamma Correction On and gamma 2.2. I rendered again, and now I have the ground shadow and the character is less washed out. Something must have gotten messed up in my IBL Master Control the first time. The 3delight render finished in 3 minutes (not counting the optimizing images). It is a little rough, because the render settings were set back to default samples, etc. 

    It still doesn't look as nice as the Iray version. The light comes from the same direction, but the 3delight HDRI beach sand looks washed out compared to the Iray render. The character looks dark and dry. I'm sure some of this comes down to the (lack of?) quality of the 3delight materials provided for the character and the suitability of those materials for gamma correction. 

    Lilinoe for Kalea tropical suit IBLM Boost Light suit adjusted sunglasses_001 3Delight_004.jpg
    2000 x 1500 - 2M
    Post edited by barbult on
  • nowefgnowefg Posts: 532

    Great to see some folks getting positive results.

    On my side, I installed 4.10, the original release, and get another 3DL error msg. Happens at least twice on every render.

    2018-01-01 18:17:47.941 Rendering Image
    2018-01-01 18:17:47.957 WARNING: Script Error: Line 14
    2018-01-01 18:17:47.957 WARNING: TypeError: Result of expression 'Shader.addTransformBegin' [undefined] is not a function.
    2018-01-01 18:17:47.957 WARNING: Stack Trace:
        <anonymous>()@C:/Program Files/DAZ 3D/DAZStudio4/scripts/support/ShaderBuilder/Light/IBLMLightAttribs.dsa:14
    2018-01-01 18:17:47.957 WARNING: dzrslshader.cpp(2777): Error executing render time file in DzRSLShader::setShader().
    2018-01-01 18:17:48.035 3Delight message #43 (Severity 1): P1096: unknown coordinate system '3DLSpace' passed to 'trace()', using 'world' instead (in shader 'ShaderBuilder/Light/IBLMLight' on object 'shapematerial_Sphere_1177_475')
    2018-01-01 18:17:55.476 3Delight message #43 (Severity 1): P1096: unknown coordinate system '3DLSpace' passed to 'trace()', using 'world' instead (in shader 'ShaderBuilder/Light/IBLMLight' on object 'shapematerial_Ground_1178_478')
    2018-01-01 18:18:05.842 Saved image: C:\Users\Ed\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\temp\render\r.png
    2018-01-01 18:18:05.842 Finished Rendering
    2018-01-01 18:18:05.920 Total Rendering Time: 18.8 seconds
    2018-01-01 18:18:05.936 Loaded image r.png
    2018-01-01 18:18:05.983 Saved image: C:\Users\Ed\AppData\Roaming\DAZ 3D\Studio4\temp\RenderAlbumTmp\Render 15.jpg

    Also, more for the bizarro happenings file,  I wasn't getting shadows either, (but had no light in the scene so that must be why,) but I wondered if the ground plane had gotten mis-placed or something, so I did a Ctrl D with the plane selected, send to floor, and the render got mega weird and took very very long. I actually stopped it after about 10 minutes, unfinished. Completely bizarre image, nothing like the hdr I was using.

    I'm going to go for the refund, for now. I don't see 3DL IBL as any way better than Iray, which I'm just finally getting used to, and have found that grouping my scene elements, so I can hide them with a single click, and then working with Iray drawstyle, quickly gets me where I need to go without needing a sphere to show me the back of my environment.

    Best to all who find IBL Master useful, though.

     

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,486
    edited January 2018

    Reducing the bucket size seems to help somewhat with the crashes (which lends support to some sort of TDR relation possibly). Wasn't able to use the hair/fur shader I wanted, but did actually get this one using the LAMH standard shader to finish (3DL 2400x3120 - 14min31secs):

    I definitely want to edit the texture map to give this guy some whiter socks, and create some custom morphs for him, too. I'd also like to change up his haircut so he looks a bit more dishevelled, which shouldn't be a problem since the hair is just curves throughout the entire process.

    Can't wait til I get this all sorted out so it will render reliably. Even with the challenges, it still beats exporting/importing huge fiber or .obj files.

    Anybody else rendering any furry critters using IBL master?

    - Greg

    wolf-walking-2.png
    800 x 1040 - 1M
    Post edited by algovincian on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 19,897

    Reducing the bucket size seems to help somewhat with the crashes (which lends support to some sort of TDR relation possibly). Wasn't able to use the hair/fur shader I wanted, but did actually get this one using the LAMH standard shader to finish (3DL 2400x3120 - 14min31secs):

    I definitely want to edit the texture map to give this guy some whiter socks, and create some custom morphs for him, too. I'd also like to change up his haircut so he looks a bit more dishevelled, which shouldn't be a problem since the hair is just curves throughout the entire process.

    Can't wait til I get this all sorted out so it will render reliably. Even with the challenges, it still beats exporting/importing huge fiber or .obj files.

    Anybody else rendering any furry critters using IBL master?

    - Greg

    Nice looking and nicely posed! I haven't tried any furry animals yet. I did finally get the hair to render on my beach girl. It is not transmapped hair. I think the key thing for me was to delete the IBL Master Control and add a new one. I had originally installed with Daz Connect. It seemed to work OK for Iray, but when I tried 3Delight, controls were missing and it kept crashing. I saw in this forum that other people had decided Daz Connect didn't work either so I uninstalled the product and reinstalled with DIM. Then the missing controls appeared, so I thought all was well. But I think the scene I started when it was installed with Daz Connect was really still broken.Deleting the IBL Master Control and adding a new one made the 3Delight render better.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,548

    Reducing the bucket size seems to help somewhat with the crashes (which lends support to some sort of TDR relation possibly). Wasn't able to use the hair/fur shader I wanted, but did actually get this one using the LAMH standard shader to finish (3DL 2400x3120 - 14min31secs):

    I definitely want to edit the texture map to give this guy some whiter socks, and create some custom morphs for him, too. I'd also like to change up his haircut so he looks a bit more dishevelled, which shouldn't be a problem since the hair is just curves throughout the entire process.

    Can't wait til I get this all sorted out so it will render reliably. Even with the challenges, it still beats exporting/importing huge fiber or .obj files.

    Anybody else rendering any furry critters using IBL master?

    - Greg

    This looks pretty darn good!  That's one thing I want to work on as well in 3Delight, is the LAMH animals.  My pc just will not handle it in Iray.  I have had some success with the Catalyzer but I'm finding it a bit difficult to work with in a scene.  They render great but it crashes a lot when trying to pose and move them.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,688

    LAMH and PWtoon are the two things that keep me coming back to 3DL.

  • algovincianalgovincian Posts: 2,486
    barbult said:

    Nice looking and nicely posed! I haven't tried any furry animals yet. I did finally get the hair to render on my beach girl. It is not transmapped hair. I think the key thing for me was to delete the IBL Master Control and add a new one. I had originally installed with Daz Connect. It seemed to work OK for Iray, but when I tried 3Delight, controls were missing and it kept crashing. I saw in this forum that other people had decided Daz Connect didn't work either so I uninstalled the product and reinstalled with DIM. Then the missing controls appeared, so I thought all was well. But I think the scene I started when it was installed with Daz Connect was really still broken.Deleting the IBL Master Control and adding a new one made the 3Delight render better.

    Thanks, Barbult - and thanks for taking the time to post back and share your experiences. I can't say for sure, but after reading your post, I do feel like switching back & forth from IRay to 3DL while keeping the same IBL master may have caused issues. Maybe a scene save/reload immediately before rendering is a good practice to adopt.

     

    This looks pretty darn good!  That's one thing I want to work on as well in 3Delight, is the LAMH animals.  My pc just will not handle it in Iray.  I have had some success with the Catalyzer but I'm finding it a bit difficult to work with in a scene.  They render great but it crashes a lot when trying to pose and move them.

    Thanks Sonja. I was pleased to coax a full render out! As I dig deeper, I'm not convinced the issues are specific to this product. I love the results using catalyzer/IRay, too - it's so limiting to only use presets, though.

    On a related note, I came across this while looking for some wolf reference material:

    Awesome!

    - Greg

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 9,849

    Oh yea, Wolves are so scary and dangerous and they all need to be exterminated.  WRONG! 

  • LianaLiana Posts: 1,035

    Reducing the bucket size seems to help somewhat with the crashes (which lends support to some sort of TDR relation possibly). Wasn't able to use the hair/fur shader I wanted, but did actually get this one using the LAMH standard shader to finish (3DL 2400x3120 - 14min31secs):

    I definitely want to edit the texture map to give this guy some whiter socks, and create some custom morphs for him, too. I'd also like to change up his haircut so he looks a bit more dishevelled, which shouldn't be a problem since the hair is just curves throughout the entire process.

    Can't wait til I get this all sorted out so it will render reliably. Even with the challenges, it still beats exporting/importing huge fiber or .obj files.

    Anybody else rendering any furry critters using IBL master?

    - Greg

    I have not tried yet. I have tried Lamh yet either. The first time I t ried it I could not figure it out. I just need to go back and do some reading I think. Anyways, that isa lovely render of the wolf. :)

  • LianaLiana Posts: 1,035
    edited January 2018

    I have been working with IBL on some of my older images. I pretty much do everything in 3DL. Perseverance to learn before doing more in Iray. I have been doing comparisons in 3DL without IBL and with IBL. The one thing I have found is some HDRIs will blow out the lighting big time and trying to find a balance in how things look can be a challenge.

    https://www.daz3d.com/forums/uploads/FileUpload/30/9e61a2280985950fecbeaf7ff07b22.png

    Namid NA_V4_3DL_IBL_a.png
    554 x 1024 - 900K
    Post edited by Liana on
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