Daz Studio.. Going Forward
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Daz should just upgrade Carrara Pro add VR plus Iray and make sure all Daz models can work natively inside Carrara Pro with Iray. Daz does not need to upgrade Studio. They just need to fix Carrara Pro and insert modern features and charge us when they make the upgrades so they can pay the programmers. Studio should stay 2D and upgrade Carrara Pro and make it the animation and VR tool Daz can stand behind. Carrara Pro with Occulus or Vive VR support will help sell content. Here is why studio does not have built in landscape tools> Yes you can buy Terra Dome for studio which I did but it is not built in like it is in Carrara. Carrara has built in Instancing that works. This is a very important tool in VR having background trees become less resource intensive the further you get away from them is what makes for great VR. Carrara Pro is the future if Daz is willing to upgrade the software. Daz studio is great for rendering stills but it would take too much work to turn it into an animation and VR tool. Studio is too reliant on outsiders coding modules built to do the job that Carrara already has built in.
An astounding post! I am in almost complete agreement.
For those who may still may be unfamiliar with Carrara 8.5 Pro, it is available for purchase today for less than $16. That too is astounding.
I would like for DAZ to completely debug Studio 4.9.XX before making Studio 4.9.XX+1.
Which will need to be debugged before making Studio 4.9.XX+2.
I have found VWD stable in both DS and Carrara its just if you use too high a poly model it can hang a bit after saying no object found
...
There are also the ones who use DS & browse here but work additionally with other software. One big reason to do so is DS lack of support for dynamics (clothes, hair, softbody) and the limited animation support.
If dynamics were integrated into DS the PAs could add support directly. e.g. instead of PAs creating 20 different poses for hair they could just add the dynamics part. Users would pose the hair to their own liking or buy a "wind" package without having to hope the hair product contains a pose which works with the character pose.
now wait for the next update of studio to break another plug in like this
I see alot of people calling for "dynamics"... "all Dynamics"
My I assume the since most of those responders are not known here to be animators
They would want dynamics for still images then??
for stills soft body dynamics would allow for realistic deformations
of the thighs when a figure wearing shorts, sits on a rigid bench for example.
And for clothing obviously more realistic natural wrinkling I assume.
Sure Myself and the tiny faction of animators would find it useful
However IMHO a full featured Dynamics /Physics engine, in Daz studio for these purposes
would be expensive overkill from an application feature perspective for the majority.
When poser leased its cloth Dynamics engine from "Size8" software inc.
for poser 5, many people incorrectly thought dynamics would largely
supplant conformers.
They could not have been more wrong!! as most users
were mortified at the prospect of having to interact with the
animation tools even for a 15-30 frame cloth draping sequence.
And this is a dynamic engine that allowed us to use our own imported meshes from day one.
I think a better implementation, in Daz studio, would
be to Dump this rubbish "Dformer" tool and replace it with
a tool similar to the recent poser morph brush with real time updates
linked to the existing autofit collision technology.
Imagine painting clothing wrinkles or soft body deformations in realtime
like in Zbrush or similar sculpting programs
and then saving them as Morphs on the fly.
This would be a much more "still render friendly" solution IMHO .
Also I would suggest either buying the GenX technology from the estate
of the late Dimension3D or create a native Daz studio Equivalent
function immediately.
NO offense to any merchant of specific Characters they are not at fault.
But I find it utterly insane
that one would have to buy the exact same "named"character multiple times
and the only real difference is that there is a different version number after his/her name.
I see threads calling for the Gen8 version of
Bethany ,Dante Arbabella, the Minotaur etc.
Daz studio should really have the built-in ability to move these
popular shapes up( and down) the genesis generations, without
labor intensive manual groks.
I understand this would possibly devalue the big event release "Character" bundles
but I think buyers might spend more on indivdual "Cherry picked" items.
for Ivan ,Dante etc if they did not have to keep buying "new" versions of the same
popular shapes.
Daz3D has basically tied down this market niche, but there isn't much room for growth if they continue on this path. Animation is the obvious next step. I agree that dynamics for a still image app is a waste of resources. After all, dynamics implies motion. Meanwhile, iClone will be moving into Daz territory. If the much-anticipated Daz Studio 5 doesn't contain the animation and camera features like iClone, they risk being left in the dust despite their wonderful figure technology. You can only buy so many Victorias when they're all basically the same.
YES!!!!!!!!
And the ability to run more than one machine to render in parrallel with IRAY without extra license fees! I am not anticipating that I will ever be able to afford or justify a graphics card with 32GB of ram, but I do have some spare computers.
That would be a good feature! The lastest Reality/Lux version has much improved CPU-mode render times, but the GPU rendering does not support all features yet. However, I was able to set up a complex render up with a Win 7 machine, and transfer it to some cheapo/used parts Linux boxes (with 16 gb ram or more) to run the actual render. That's the kind of flexibility/functionality I would like to see with IRAY.
....Or Daz Studio users could completely abandon their current
workflows and learn blender which is FREE, already has dynamic Cloth,hair rigid collisions
and even fluids!!! ...... except that I did not ask:
"what other programs should you use instead of Daz studio"
This would be ignoring Daz Studio's core market: non-artists! What most avid users adore about Daz is the push button convenience of creating beautiful pictures. This is the backbone of their market strength. You think Daz figures are unique looking? Every mesh is made up of the same vertices. But Daz Studio can turn pose deformation problems into a push button or automatic solution. This is the voodoo of Daz that currently hasn't been copied by other companies. And this is its appeal to most of its users. To ask someone to learn other software (for many) would be asking them to abandon this convenient technology. Some people don't want to be artists but they like making pretty pictures. If Daz developed a competitor to blender that includes Daz's morphing tech, they would capture a significant market. I don't think developing Carrara is a bad idea (although I have never used it) if they do it completely and can finally release Daz figures from the prison of Daz Studio.
It is not just the morphing tech that make the "genesis experience"
so exculsive to Daz studio
to my mind it is the near perfect combination of autofit, HD morphs and the three click transfer tools
for rigging clothing
that are the main things you lose when you send genesis out to
another program.
Ok, I'll take your word for it. I haven't even come close to using Daz to the full. I am too obsessed with getting figures out of it. It is far too constricting for me. But any decent artist can make beautiful stills with Daz figures outside of Daz Studio. It just takes more work and knowledge of your application of choice. But Daz figure technology is an "ace in the hole". It would be a shame if they didn't exploit it as much as possible. Right now, its being wasted. By the way, here is my still of a Daz figure in Maya using Arnold. I am a complete CGI novice and have a lot to learn but vertices are vertices. She will move more beautifully in Daz, though. I'm really hoping for a Daz Studio animation solution.
working on the dynamic hair now...
All of this assumes that people that want to use Genesis figures in other applications want the entire experience. This is only true for those wanting to use the latest Genesis models natively in Carrara just as they can use Genesis and Genesis 2.
There is another market that's not being served by Daz Studio: "Non-riggers, non-texture artists, and non-modelers". These artists of other disciplines want to animate and make movies without the hassle of learning other skills. I am in that category. Although I love creating art, my time is better spent doing what I was born to do. These last three months learning how to rig and texture models have taken me away from my main objective. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to do more animating and less of preparing the characters. So, yeah, give me the whole experience. Anything that can save me time.
Only pro sculptors possess the skill to create realistic wrinkles like that. Even then it needs a highend brush system like in ZBrush, not one random morph brush. The topology of the mesh needs to be there to create wrinkles as well. Either that or it needs to be in the millions of polys which then again needs an application like ZBrush that is specificially made to handle that kind of thing.
Then convince Autodesk to license the DAZ technology, because that's what it's going to take to be able to do it that easily.
I never do final renders in studio ( still or animated)
but I use .obj/MDD export so I get my hi levels of subD
and radical or extreme body shapes outside of studio
This is where I must admit to some confusion about the DSON
technology option.
All of the plugins I have seen to get genesis models into other programs
(including iclone), are just some variation of the standard FBX import
(usually a pretty white girl)
like this "people in motion" plugin for C4D.
lovely.. but in the end you dont really have a full Genesis figure anymore.
You have a rigged character in your "other program" that looks like whatever
genesis shape you exported from Daz studio.
Other than the short lived DSON implementation for G1-2 in poser,
I have not seen any other third party use DSON as way to get a functional genesis model
out of DS.
Thus DSON as I understand it, has been a major failure as a
Genesis transfer tool.
Daz seems to have acknowledged this with the changes to G3
that where we see quite a departure from G2
so it seems that the true genesis is confined to DS unless someone else
makes a DSON based plugin???.
I completely disagree with this, I think dynamics can make a major improvement even in a still image. When you look at the many items of clothing that look like someone is wearing something made of hard plastic, then the way dynamics draps the clothing naturally is a big improvement. This is true of nearly all dresses where the wearer is not stood straight upright, but is also true for items like shirts that have wide sleeves, which make the arms poke out without touching the cloth at all.
What we need is a dynamic system that is easy to use, and then maybe the mainstream of users would take advantage of it. An ideal would be that someone poses the clothes as normal using conforming clothing, and then presses one button to make it drape more naturally for the final pose.
What would be great is if what ever dynamics engine is used can take advantage of the GPU to make a very fast drape. I know this will upset the AMD crowd, but it obviously makes sense that they support nVidia GPUs, since so many users have already invested in one of these in order to use Iray.
"Then convince Autodesk to license the DAZ technology, because that's what it's going to take to be able to do it that easily."
Or convince Daz3D to make animation within DS easier, which was the point of my comment.
"...so it seems that the true genesis is confined to DS unless someone else makes a DSON based plugin???."
...which is why I keep coming back to this forum, looking for any word on new animation feature for DS. Even doing things your way requires you to do the animation within Daz Studio to get those beautiful HD deformations. The FBX situation matters less to me for normal actions, especially now that I can rig up my own HD Daz figure, but when my characters are in extreme positions and poses, I can easily see the limitations of the figure outside of Daz. I have to do a lot of corrective blendshaping to get her right again. Dammit Jim! I'm a director, not a modeler!
And of course licensing the DSON tech does not affect the restrictions
of the general EULA for a daz model once you did make your own DSON based plugin.
which is why autodesk users are more likley to buya Maya native humanIK rig from
turbosquid and have the freedom to use the mesh for commercial projects.
The reality is that in some ironic ways Daz sort of
outsmarted itself with genesis tech in my view.
Such a feature would have to be more advanced than even the VWD
but be "easier"..tall order.
Yes, which will not likely happen, as there is little interest in those advanced features when most other applications don't need them.
Still images capture movement. That's why dynamics are important for them.
Or have ther own equivalent internal options to alter figures appearance
Looking at what was possible in hollywood movies before genesis,
makes it obvious the genesis figure abilities were not that revolutionary
its just that Daz made them very convenient in an easy to use format that only Daz studio
can now read.
So its best to get more people using studio as there is clearly a natural
limit on how many non DS users will come here and buy content only use genesis models in other prorams
This is the path Iclone has obviously chosen with their major
Core app/optional improvements with each release and thier own
brokered content maket and free Character creator app.
No, this is exactly what the majority wants. You cannot get anything like attached picture with normal conformers. Just the simple image of a girl holding up part of her skirt.
That's because wayyyyyyyy back in the days of Poser 5, dynamics technology, and especially the technology they purchased, and especially the implementation in Poser, was not good. Don't compare to Poser 5. Compare to MD or Obi Cloth for Unity.
This would also be pretty nice, too, though it doesn't offer the draping or softbody capabilities I want natively.
Daz has had over a DECADE to develop functions that could rival those in Carrara, but have not done so. Why you assume that they want to do so now - or that it is even possible - is the mystery.
And, how easily you repeat the Blender argument. As opposed to Blender, Carrara already works well with most Daz figures, and is generally considered to be much easier to learn.
And finally, Carrara is already in the Daz stable of products. Expanding its NATIVE capabilities makes more sense than trying to turn DS into something that it is not.