Realistic Renders... NOT!! 12 "And we're back in the room!"

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  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,451
    edited November 2013

    ...@Bobvan, Condolences on the loss of your father.


    As to your "beast' you must have a newer MB than I have Mine can only support a total of 24GB (and I also need to upgrade to Win7Pro to use it all). Still pretty good for 3Delight/Firefly rendering as long as I don't load it down with volumetrics. Had one scene take between 4 - 5 hours, and that included AoA's Advanced Ambient/Spotlights Once I removed the Volumetric light cone around one of the characters, flagged the hair for Primitive Hitmode, and changed illumination settings on the other light cone, the render time dropped to just over ten minutes.

    When I ran a test on the scene substituting a UE sphere for the main AAL, it took 15 minutes to complete just 1% (and that was just a portion of the sky with nothing in it). Based on that my estimate for 100% completion would have been something in the realm of 25 hours, possibly more once the process got to the hair.

    ...so yes it's possible to still get bloated render times with just 3Delight.

    Can't wait for the update to the Atmospheric cameras which will allow flagging of specific lights with the Volume Camera. No more having to do layered rendering/compositing (never could figure out what to render on what layer or how to deal with shadows).

    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,319
    edited December 1969

    I usually get longer render times if I use cloud 9 and outdoor scenes if you go back a bit I posted some star trek bridge scenes that were done with 3D light l took 10 mins on average. I did get those newer PS light dome pro find it good for backdrops when I bridge some renders (Like the female outside a while back) but still prefer lux... I may start dabbling more in 3Delight seeing how its improved alot...

  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,197
    edited November 2013

    I did not know that you use Lux. I was wondering how your shadows look so soft.

    you missed our conversation about my computer. My computer feels like a 2 GHz celeron with 2 GB of RAM. It is running Windows XP 32 bit. I'm rendering simple scenes with Genesis because i receive memory errors.

    I discovered that I can load Laura 3 into Daz Studio 4 and apply new shaders to her. Oh, and I can use some stuff that I bought from Age of Armour's store with the older generation figures too. I still need to work on my older fantasy scenes though.

    The granite shader that I used are: http://www.daz3d.com/magical-granite-shader

    Normally, I don't dress my characters in shoes, but I need practice posing the ladies in shoes.

    edit: I finished the closeup. Bechet Braids hair took five minutes to render in the closeup. I only have two regular distant lights in the scene. One of the lights is casting shadows.

    Laura_granite_2.jpg
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    Laura_granite.jpg
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    Post edited by starionwolf on
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,451
    edited November 2013

    ...while giving fairly "realistic lighting to a scene with 3Delight, Cloud9 uses Uberenvironment which I believe is set at to 64 or 96 occlusion samples. If you have any transmaps or reflection in the scene, it really slows down.

    This one took just under four hours at 900 x 900 because of the glass in the shelter, the trees in the background and Mavka's wings.


    Bus Stop Pest

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    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,004
    edited December 1969

    @Bobvan: Sorry to hear about your Dad, but great that you have managed to spend some time with him not so long time ago.

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,004
    edited December 1969

    Nice shadows. It is interesting to see the different kinds of shadows and lighting techniques that everyone uses.

    Thanks, starionwolf. As I am not so good at my own lighting, so I am trying different methods to find out what works the best.
  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,004
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Artini said:
    ...
    Having Age of Armor Advanced Ambient Light instead of UE give really savings on rendering time in such scenes.

    There's more detail in the one rendered with the Advanced Ambient light, you'll have to detail what the settings were. I have the Dave texture, the Core Lights 01 and the Advanced Ambient light. This could be a very significant advance in DS lighting tech.

    CHEERS!
    Great, I also like better the render with the Advanced Ambient light, especially when it takes less time to complete it.
    I will try to replace UE in different lighting setups, I have, in hope to find a faster rendering solution to some hair
    I have tried in Daz Studio before.

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,451
    edited December 1969

    ...the nice feature with both the Advanced Ambient and Spotlight is that you can flag surfaces (like hair) to render in Primitive Hitmode which takes less time to render.

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,319
    edited November 2013

    In lux one controls shadows with the size one makes the "mesh" light which is really a plane... Thats one thing I prefer using lux; area lighting works well no need to hide walls that cant be hidden in 3Delight its always distant and spot or point lights

    Kyoto good ol cloud 9 .....

    I generally let my renders run longer then they need to I just queue them while I do other things...

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • Herald of FireHerald of Fire Posts: 3,489
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    @ Herald: Did you see my 3Delight versions of that Jamie scan?

    CHEERS!


    I did indeed, however you weren't entirely accurate when you said it was my Luxrender. That accolade belongs to another. I've never actually used that model for rendering yet :)
  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 30,451
    edited November 2013

    Bobvan said:
    In lux one controls shadows with the size one makes the "mesh" light which is really a plane... Thats one thing I prefer using lux; area lighting works well no need to hide walls that cant be hidden in 3Delight its always distant and spot or point lights

    Kyoto good ol cloud 9 .....

    I generally let my renders run longer then they need to I just queue them while I do other things...

    .
    ..AoA's Advanced Ambeint and point lights have changed the game as you can establish range and falloff now. You can also flag surfaces to either not be illuminated or lit using a different setting. Also, since 4.5, there is now the Linear point light which also has adjustable falloff.

    In UE one can also create mesh lights (I've done that many times) using the light props themselves or the various Uber Area lights. The dowdside of these however is the increased amount of render time.

    This scene used four AALs (one full ambient and the other three with set radius and falloff) and ASLs as well as an Atmospheric Camera with vignette effect and one Uber Volume light cone for the streetlight in the background. It illustrates the flexibility of flagging as I employed it in several instances to reduce render time on the hair as well as avoid excess "spill" or "over illumination" which is far more difficult to do with UE.

    This was the scene that took nearly five hours to render before I eliminated the Volume cone around the foreground character (replacing it with a Jepe's SteamZ plane to get the swirling fog effect) and made a few adjustments to the other lights. Again, render time just a hair over ten minutes.

    out_of_the_shadows_fog_final_sig.jpg
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    Post edited by kyoto kid on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Artini said:
    [quote author="Rogerbee" date="1384275361"
    Great, I also like better the render with the Advanced Ambient light, especially when it takes less time to complete it.
    I will try to replace UE in different lighting setups, I have, in hope to find a faster rendering solution to some hair
    I have tried in Daz Studio before.

    Yeah, hair was always one that slowed it all down for me too. There's some specific SAV hair which was ideal for Summer Glau, which either you or someone else said was taking ages to render, well maybe not now!

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969


    I did indeed, however you weren't entirely accurate when you said it was my Luxrender. That accolade belongs to another. I've never actually used that model for rendering yet :)

    Oh, right,

    I had a look at some of the other scans and they either looked too much like M5 or were NSFD (Not Safe For Daz). If the female one had been wearing all of her bikini I might have bought her, £25 is pretty reasonable for such a hi-res asset. I think the resolution on the commercial ones is a lot higher than on Jamie.

    CHEERS!

  • Yonas AngYonas Ang Posts: 108
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, a question, it this thread only for posting your raw render ?
    Can I post here with the postworked / retouched render ?

    Just to be safe before posting my render here ^^

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,004
    edited December 1969

    Further experiments with Advanced Ambient Light replacing Uber Environment.
    This time setup from Tsukiko A5 AOIBL_Light
    DS 4.6 Pro Rendering Time: 5 minutes 4 seconds

    Dave26PHClassicHair15Pic01.jpg
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  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, a question, it this thread only for posting your raw render ?
    Can I post here with the postworked / retouched render ?

    Just to be safe before posting my render here ^^

    If it looks good and you like it, you can post it.

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Artini said:
    Further experiments with Advanced Ambient Light replacing Uber Environment.
    This time setup from Tsukiko A5 AOIBL_Light
    DS 4.6 Pro Rendering Time: 5 minutes 4 seconds

    That looks incredible!

    I'm hoping that AoA or someone else (if indeed they can) will start producing light sets with preset lights which utilise both Advanced lights. I looked at the manual for the Advanced spotlight and was like "I beg your pardon!?". It all went right over my head. When I do feel I can commit to 3D again I will endeavour to study things a bit more fully.

    What were your AAL settings for that render!?

    CHEERS!

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,004
    edited December 1969

    Hmm, a question, it this thread only for posting your raw render ?
    Can I post here with the postworked / retouched render ?

    Just to be safe before posting my render here ^^


    If you decide to post in this thread, please also consider describing how you postworked / retouched your render, as well.
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Yeah, that couldn't hurt either!

    CHEERS!

  • ArtiniArtini Posts: 4,004
    edited November 2013

    Rogerbee said:
    Artini said:
    Further experiments with Advanced Ambient Light replacing Uber Environment.
    This time setup from Tsukiko A5 AOIBL_Light
    DS 4.6 Pro Rendering Time: 5 minutes 4 seconds

    That looks incredible!

    I'm hoping that AoA or someone else (if indeed they can) will start producing light sets with preset lights which utilise both Advanced lights. I looked at the manual for the Advanced spotlight and was like "I beg your pardon!?". It all went right over my head. When I do feel I can commit to 3D again I will endeavour to study things a bit more fully.

    What were your AAL settings for that render!?

    CHEERS!
    Thanks. I have only reduced the intensity of AAL (70%) to match that from original UE settings.
    The rest parameters was at the default. I have also took EHSS eye materials from different character
    and applied Eye Surface for Genesis as well.
    http://www.daz3d.com/new-releases/eye-surface-for-genesis

    Post edited by Artini on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited November 2013

    Oh good, nothing complex there then. Even I could try that.

    I'm actually quite proud of Eye Surface for Genesis as it was partly my brainchild. Not long after I got DSON, I asked Phil W what could be done about giving Genesis an eye surface and he took the idea I had and turned it into a product. So glad to see it being put to good use.

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • JabbaJabba Posts: 1,212
    edited December 1969

    Rogerbee said:
    Artini said:
    Further experiments with Advanced Ambient Light replacing Uber Environment.
    This time setup from Tsukiko A5 AOIBL_Light
    DS 4.6 Pro Rendering Time: 5 minutes 4 seconds

    That looks incredible!

    I'm hoping that AoA or someone else (if indeed they can) will start producing light sets with preset lights which utilise both Advanced lights. I looked at the manual for the Advanced spotlight and was like "I beg your pardon!?". It all went right over my head. When I do feel I can commit to 3D again I will endeavour to study things a bit more fully.

    What were your AAL settings for that render!?

    CHEERS!I know they can appear daunting but they do offer a whole new age of versatility to rendering in DAZ Studio. I've been doing some livestream videos that I put on YouTube...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOBX7wcvGpQ&feature=share&list=PLEwz47q_kSn_qig9SVkE5WgeYBqvNfWX7
    ...I know they're a bit rough around the edges, but they should give a pretty good idea of some of the ways to use AoA's lights.

    Incidentally, Age of Armour indicated that he never included presets for the lights because each render has its own unique requirements e.g. which items to flag. As far as I'm aware, he's made some additional tweaks to the lights but the update isn't through DAZ yet - I think these are about making it easier to replace standard lights in existing set-ups with the advanced lights, as while you can currently copy & paste standard light parameters, you then need to make some manual adjustments to advanced lights to get them working that might not be as obvious to the casual user (but I'm just a normal customer with no insider information, so I don't know if the tweaks will actually do what we might imagine they'll do - will only know if/when update goes live).

  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,197
    edited December 1969

    Even though I installed more RAM into my computer, Daz Studio 4 still runs out of memory. I think Studio has hit the 32 bit memory limit. I won't be able to render complex scenes in Daz Studio 4 until I buy a new computer. In the mean time, I'll create portraits using Genesis like Rogerbee does.

    At least Daz Studio and my games run a little faster now because they are not swapping to disk/page file so often.

  • BobvanBobvan Posts: 2,319
    edited November 2013

    PPl pay me for custom projects which is why I can afford these things..

    Post edited by Bobvan on
  • TheWheelManTheWheelMan Posts: 1,014
    edited December 1969

    Even though I installed more RAM into my computer, Daz Studio 4 still runs out of memory. I think Studio has hit the 32 bit memory limit. I won't be able to render complex scenes in Daz Studio 4 until I buy a new computer. In the mean time, I'll create portraits using Genesis like Rogerbee does.

    At least Daz Studio and my games run a little faster now because they are not swapping to disk/page file so often.

    You must be on a 32-bit system? Any more than 4 gigs of ram is wasted unless you have a 64-bit system.

  • Yonas AngYonas Ang Posts: 108
    edited November 2013

    Well, here is my latest works, some little retouching with the skin getting rid the over yellowish skin color in the diffuse map, that has nothing to do with the render quality, and some retouch with the corset to lighten up the black part.

    - Rendered with 3Delight
    - 3 point light setup (but using 3 DS default distant light)
    - UE 4xhi quality with custom hdri from http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html
    - Ray trace depth 2
    - Pixel sample X: 9, Y: 9
    - Rendered around 45 minutes, should be faster, because I was using only 2 core at that time need the other 2 for other task (Youtube while rendering is my habit^^)
    - Figure and skin texture is GND 4 athletic with customized morph

    Natasha_131110.JPG
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    Post edited by Yonas Ang on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Jabba101 said:
    I know they can appear daunting but they do offer a whole new age of versatility to rendering in DAZ Studio. I've been doing some livestream videos that I put on YouTube...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOBX7wcvGpQ&feature=share&list=PLEwz47q_kSn_qig9SVkE5WgeYBqvNfWX7
    ...I know they're a bit rough around the edges, but they should give a pretty good idea of some of the ways to use AoA's lights.

    Incidentally, Age of Armour indicated that he never included presets for the lights because each render has its own unique requirements e.g. which items to flag. As far as I'm aware, he's made some additional tweaks to the lights but the update isn't through DAZ yet - I think these are about making it easier to replace standard lights in existing set-ups with the advanced lights, as while you can currently copy & paste standard light parameters, you then need to make some manual adjustments to advanced lights to get them working that might not be as obvious to the casual user (but I'm just a normal customer with no insider information, so I don't know if the tweaks will actually do what we might imagine they'll do - will only know if/when update goes live).

    Yeah, that's true I guess,

    I like to watch videos, but, I tend not to take everything in. A nice manual is something you can have open alongside what you're working on and you can refer back to the right bit when you need to.

    Still, I'm sure, when I can do, I'll study things a bit more in depth and get my teeth into everything. I'm perhaps a bit spoilt by Poser still where a lot of it was already set up and you just had to set the scene and render.

    I'll get there....

    CHEERS!

  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited November 2013

    Even though I installed more RAM into my computer, Daz Studio 4 still runs out of memory. I think Studio has hit the 32 bit memory limit. I won't be able to render complex scenes in Daz Studio 4 until I buy a new computer. In the mean time, I'll create portraits using Genesis like Rogerbee does.

    At least Daz Studio and my games run a little faster now because they are not swapping to disk/page file so often.

    Getting that new computer should be a priority now. When I got mine I set myself a strict set of requirements and eventually found a machine to match them. I did go £80 over my budget, but, it was worth it. Not having the right spec is frustrating and I had that with the two machines that came before the current one. At the end of the day bigger is always better when it comes to tech. You've hit just the right time to be shopping around too. A lot of retailers have sales in the new year.

    I did portraits because I was lazy and they were quick, I really want to do more than that now

    CHEERS!

    Post edited by Rogerbee on
  • RogerbeeRogerbee Posts: 4,460
    edited December 1969

    Well, here is my latest works, some little retouching with the skin getting rid the over yellowish skin color in the diffuse map, that has nothing to do with the render quality, and some retouch with the corset to lighten up the black part.

    - Rendered with 3Delight
    - 3 point light setup (but using 3 DS default distant light)
    - UE 4xhi quality with custom hdri from http://www.hdrlabs.com/sibl/archive.html
    - Ray trace depth 2
    - Pixel sample X: 9, Y: 9
    - Rendered around 45 minutes, should be faster, because I was using only 2 core at that time need the other 2 for other task (Youtube while rendering is my habit^^)
    - Figure and skin texture is GND 4 athletic with customized morph


    Great render,

    If they're all this good you can post here any time.

    CHEERS!

  • starionwolfstarionwolf Posts: 3,197
    edited November 2013

    I did not know that Daz Studio can use more than one processor core. I learned something new.

    You must be on a 32-bit system? Any more than 4 gigs of ram is wasted unless you have a 64-bit system.

    Yeah, I am using Windows XP 32 bit with 3 GB of RAM. Windows sees 2.75 after all the hardware finishes loading. Daz Studio and 3delight can only allocate 1.6 GB.

    I did some more research about memory limits and discovered that 32 bit Windows limits programs to 2 GB of RAM. Here are some links for future reference - they might be helpful for someone who is running 32 bit Windows.

    Memory Limits for Applications on Windows - Intel Software

    2 GB memory limit on 32-bit Windows systems - Autodesk software

    Here I am poking fun at my old render:

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    Post edited by starionwolf on
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