Morphs from G3 to G8

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  • mats76mats76 Posts: 237
    sueya said:

    Is there a way to delete morphs? I have just found that the Eva 7 Head morph I created also changes her arms. I probably made some mistake when I did the transfer.

    As MimicMolly wrote and look for:FHMEva7.dsf

  • Now that Riversoft's product is in the store I wonder what the future development of SB's script might be or if it is dead in the water at this point.

     

    I've been at the bottom of a well of new information for a while. (I know way more about clothing patterns than I ever expected to learn.) As far as further development goes, I fully intend to bring the script up to the minimal functional goal. That is: full bi-directional support for all Genesis figures. I've learned some things that will help me reach that goal.  Of course, if anyone else wants to contribute, it's what open source is for. In light of the fact that there are now 3 products that do what the script (sorta) does right now, if no one wants to contribute, I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would like to expand that to support for many more figures than Genesises (Genesi?), but I really don't understand the poser format with the body part based morphs and INJ. I mean, I get it well enough to use it, but I've no idea how any of it works. Someone who does know would be a helpful contributor.

    I'm not sure exactly when I'll get around to doing what I can, though. I still haven't practiced the skills I've learned much at all. I'm chasing one last pipe dream, trying to get it to work. That's eating up my attention. I should probably switch to something more productive, but if I can just make it work a little bit it will give me plenty to practice those new skills on. Also, I really wanna do it.

  • DivamakeupDivamakeup Posts: 8,948

    Now that Riversoft's product is in the store I wonder what the future development of SB's script might be or if it is dead in the water at this point.

     

    I've been at the bottom of a well of new information for a while. (I know way more about clothing patterns than I ever expected to learn.) As far as further development goes, I fully intend to bring the script up to the minimal functional goal. That is: full bi-directional support for all Genesis figures. I've learned some things that will help me reach that goal.  Of course, if anyone else wants to contribute, it's what open source is for. In light of the fact that there are now 3 products that do what the script (sorta) does right now, if no one wants to contribute, I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would like to expand that to support for many more figures than Genesises (Genesi?), but I really don't understand the poser format with the body part based morphs and INJ. I mean, I get it well enough to use it, but I've no idea how any of it works. Someone who does know would be a helpful contributor.

    I'm not sure exactly when I'll get around to doing what I can, though. I still haven't practiced the skills I've learned much at all. I'm chasing one last pipe dream, trying to get it to work. That's eating up my attention. I should probably switch to something more productive, but if I can just make it work a little bit it will give me plenty to practice those new skills on. Also, I really wanna do it.

    That's awesome news! The script being able to support all Genesis figures would be AMAZING! :D

  • inquireinquire Posts: 856

    I like the part about  "I would like to expand that to support for many more figures than Genesises (Genesi?), but I really don't understand the poser format with the body part based morphs and INJ." So, you'd be interested in even getting it to work on M4, V4, maybe even D3 and V3? That would be great.

  • I would be interested in getting it to work with anything it could read. But for that to happen, I need to be able to add morphs to the figure and load the figure in Studio, somehow. There are ways I can imagine making it work at, least for transfering morphs to Genesis(es), that wouldn't require the figure be loaded, but I'd need to have some kind of understanding of the file formats and I don't. Given that it's not a particularly useful skill to have outside this, I don't see me getting that knowledge very soon. Maybe in an unknowable future, but I am focused on things I might be able to make use of, right now.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 856

    Well, you load the base figure, whether it's David 3, Michael 4, Victoria 4 or whatever. Then, you go to the Morphs folder and inject the morphs you want. In Textures, you can inject textures. In Figures, you can inject particular characters made for Victoria 4, or whichever figure. Injecting a character may pull up the base figure, the accompanying morphs, the textures, etc. You would only add more morphs if you wanted to do so. In Hair, you could add hair; in Pose, you could add poses. Many of the DAZ characters (which these are) made for Poser, placed the textures for skin, hair, costumes, etc., all in the Pose folder.

    So, in the Pose folder, I might create sub-folders as, e.g., Pose/Hair, Pose/Men, Pose/Women, Pose/Costumes, etc. It's really not very hard at all. Maybe you're just unfamiliar with it. 

    If I were calling up a Jepe David 3 character, for example, I could just double-click on it, and it would pull up the David 3 base, the morphs needed, the skin textures. Then, I could add hair, clothing, etc.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,002

    I would be interested in getting it to work with anything it could read. But for that to happen, I need to be able to add morphs to the figure and load the figure in Studio, somehow. There are ways I can imagine making it work at, least for transfering morphs to Genesis(es), that wouldn't require the figure be loaded, but I'd need to have some kind of understanding of the file formats and I don't. Given that it's not a particularly useful skill to have outside this, I don't see me getting that knowledge very soon. Maybe in an unknowable future, but I am focused on things I might be able to make use of, right now.

    Perhaps a work around would be to get the user to load the M4/V4 character, and all the morphs themselves, and then export the morphed character as a simple obj. Then all the script would need to do is look at the standard M4/V4 obj, and the exported one, and create a resulting morph for the relevant Genesis figure. That way the script does not need to know anything at all about CR2 files, or injection files, it just works on the two meshes. I know this is not as user friendly as using this script for Genesis to Genesis transfers, but it is an acceptable compromise to use with a free script.

  • inquireinquire Posts: 856

    Yep, that's pretty much what I was getting at. The entire figure should pull up if you have one of the characters made for M4 or V4. You shouldn't have to pull up morphs or things one at a time. 

  • E.BruE.Bru Posts: 129
    E.Bru said:

    The scrip is working but the Data is not shown in Daz Studio. What is going wrong?

    You have to close Daz Studio then reopen if you haven't.

    Thank you! I did it but the Data is not shown. :(

  • What the script really does, at a basic level, is transform properties between figures. In this it is similar to GenX. It doesn't simply move morphs, it can move the ERC data--like character controllers, JCMs, MCMs, and so on.

    With Genesis(es), each property is simply a file. The file either lives in the figure Morphs folder, or in Projection Morphs (or something similar). Presently, my script is only concerned about the Morphs folder. The script is able to match the property on the figure to the file it comes from and transform the data across to a different figure such that the links between the figure and properties still work. For example, if you have Victoria 7 for Victoria 8, and you use my script to transfer Whoever for Victoria 7 from G3 to G8, when you dial Whoever, it will activate Victoria 7 for Victoria 8 because it has the same property identification data as V7 does on G3, right down to the file path in the Morphs folder.

    In order to generate full bidirectional support for poser figures, I need to be able to rewrite ERC between two different formats, and I don't understand the format of the Poser figures. I also need to be able to save new morphs to the poser figures because they have to be put in the transfer shape before anything else happens. (The script contains no data of the differences between the figure shapes, per se. This would be a from of distrubtion of Daz intellectual property. I know because Daz lawyers said so. Also, it's pretty obvious if you read the EULA slowly. It has a common shape that all the figures share. WIth this, is can "reconstruct" the differences. to support Legacy poser figures, it needs to do the same thing, so it need to add the common shape and pose to those figures. To support modern poser figures, it may need to be able to do this without ever loading the figure.)

    It's these two areas, preserving ERC and adding the correct morphs and pose controls, where I lack the knowledge to make the transfers happen. Even if we skip the former (effectively the suggestion you make here) the latter is not optional.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,002

    What the script really does, at a basic level, is transform properties between figures. In this it is similar to GenX. It doesn't simply move morphs, it can move the ERC data--like character controllers, JCMs, MCMs, and so on.

    With Genesis(es), each property is simply a file. The file either lives in the figure Morphs folder, or in Projection Morphs (or something similar). Presently, my script is only concerned about the Morphs folder. The script is able to match the property on the figure to the file it comes from and transform the data across to a different figure such that the links between the figure and properties still work. For example, if you have Victoria 7 for Victoria 8, and you use my script to transfer Whoever for Victoria 7 from G3 to G8, when you dial Whoever, it will activate Victoria 7 for Victoria 8 because it has the same property identification data as V7 does on G3, right down to the file path in the Morphs folder.

    In order to generate full bidirectional support for poser figures, I need to be able to rewrite ERC between two different formats, and I don't understand the format of the Poser figures. I also need to be able to save new morphs to the poser figures because they have to be put in the transfer shape before anything else happens. (The script contains no data of the differences between the figure shapes, per se. This would be a from of distrubtion of Daz intellectual property. I know because Daz lawyers said so. Also, it's pretty obvious if you read the EULA slowly. It has a common shape that all the figures share. WIth this, is can "reconstruct" the differences. to support Legacy poser figures, it needs to do the same thing, so it need to add the common shape and pose to those figures. To support modern poser figures, it may need to be able to do this without ever loading the figure.)

    It's these two areas, preserving ERC and adding the correct morphs and pose controls, where I lack the knowledge to make the transfers happen. Even if we skip the former (effectively the suggestion you make here) the latter is not optional.

    I think for the older generations all that matters is the obj of the shape (which is all that GenX creates), not ERCs or other shaping helpers. They would be nice, but I wonder how well they would transfer from an older figure with no weight mapping and a completely different rigging system (ie all Gen 4 figures and earlier). I am sure most important to most people is the head shape (where there are no ERCs, I believe), transfering older body shapes is less useful, unless it is extreme, like a creature.

    However if all this is completely different to how the existing script functions, I can see it is not going to work.

  • Everyone thinks that the use case they have in mind is the use case "everyone else" wants. This is really not the case. As a first rule, then, I try to aim for "it does what it says on the tin." Thus bidirectional support. The "Real" use case is G3 to G8. GenX can fill the gap. I could have made a simple bit that did that, but I'm more ambitious, or generally self destructive. Only time will tell on that case.

    I do know people would love a "One click" to transfer instead of dealing with two products, but if the transfer instructions for legacy figures is vastly different from the method Genesis uses, one might as well have used GenX. It's not a "One click" solution.

  • There's quite a trove of Poser ERC and CR2/PZ2/PZ3/HR2/PR2 info available mostly based on poser 4/5/6 but there is some info available for later versions. I'll see what i can find after I do some travelling tomorrow and post it here for ya'll if that's wanted

  • Hello, can someone link me to the newest or latest instructions or script please? I'm joining this party very late it seems! lol

  • Here it is : GenNext

  • @cantonesejim_2023fd09fa
    I would definitely be interested in any information you might have to share. Very much.

  • Is there a tutorial on how to transfer a G8 female character morph to G3 female? 

  • Singular Blues, I just want to say... I have an older version of your script and Riversofts version as well. Yours is MUCH more accurate most of the time. The only reason I'm not using it exclusively is because there's a strange import problem that prevents me from importing the scene into Blender...

  • PsyckosamaPsyckosama Posts: 297

    Now that Riversoft's product is in the store I wonder what the future development of SB's script might be or if it is dead in the water at this point.

     

    I've been at the bottom of a well of new information for a while. (I know way more about clothing patterns than I ever expected to learn.) As far as further development goes, I fully intend to bring the script up to the minimal functional goal. That is: full bi-directional support for all Genesis figures. I've learned some things that will help me reach that goal.  Of course, if anyone else wants to contribute, it's what open source is for. In light of the fact that there are now 3 products that do what the script (sorta) does right now, if no one wants to contribute, I wouldn't be surprised at all. I would like to expand that to support for many more figures than Genesises (Genesi?), but I really don't understand the poser format with the body part based morphs and INJ. I mean, I get it well enough to use it, but I've no idea how any of it works. Someone who does know would be a helpful contributor.

    I'm not sure exactly when I'll get around to doing what I can, though. I still haven't practiced the skills I've learned much at all. I'm chasing one last pipe dream, trying to get it to work. That's eating up my attention. I should probably switch to something more productive, but if I can just make it work a little bit it will give me plenty to practice those new skills on. Also, I really wanna do it.

    Why not add dawn and dusk compatability as well?

  • I'm looking into Dawn and Dusk, but not very hard. I still haven't figured out how author things for legacy figures, or developed any real skill with the new tools (my computer was stolen, and I've had to rebuild from, basically, nothing. With respect to this project, the open source project means that I still have all of that stuff. But I don't have anything I developed after that). For my plans going forward, I hope to have learned enough of the new tools to be going on with by the end of the month. At that point I'll be able to tackle most of the problems the script has with what it's supposed to do. I doubt I'll be able to begin to approach the legacy figure problem this year, as my google-fu is not strong enough to even give a hint about content authoring for those figures. I understand there are DS compatible versions of Dawn and Dusk, so I might be able to add that support with relative ease.

    The most difficult part of the Genesis based development is making the supporting models. This would apply to any attempts to expand to 3rd party figures, even if they are genesis compatible. The new skills I have yet to really learn will make that very (very) much easier to do. This is a good thing because the fix to dealing with the issue of morphs not transfering from G8 to other Genesi requires a whole new set of clones. (Basically, the target figure needs to be in its rest pose, and the source figure must adopt a pose identical to that. Because the clones aren't actually rigged, this means the current set of clones only work right in the A pose. While they can take on the other poses, rigging them breaks the alignment between figures. And to get things right, the alingment needs to be nearly perfect. Also, I suspect a problem with distortions is caused by the clones being too perfectly aligned. I think the target clone needs to be slightly larger than the source. This means a new set of clones for sending morphs as opposed to receiving them.)  That's back to 7 clones per figure, or 49 clones.

    Adding a new figure means the total number of clones becomes N^2, where N is the total number of figures after adding. With support for Dawn and Dusk, that means 81 total clones; 9 per figure for 9 figures. It might be possible to reduce this by up to X clones per figure, where X is the number of gender pairs that get the same result after building their receipt shape. That seems to work for G8, but I suspect a few cases of problems reported might be caused by it not being the case. G8M effectively uses a clone built for G8F in terms of the shape plus pose problem. I've had issues that sound like alignment issues in the arms that might be caused by a difference in the G8F A pose vs. the G8M. On the other hand, they might be caused by the "too perfect" alignment issue mentioned above. I don't know. And I won't know soon.

  • PsyckosamaPsyckosama Posts: 297
    edited October 11

    Go to hivewire and speak to them about it. Dawn and Dusk would be double useful for you to do because it would add a pipeline to more easily move Daz3d Genesis 3/8 content into Poser as Dawn and Dusk are now included with Poser.

    I bring it up because they'd have as much a vested interest in getting it working as you would. It would increase the viability of thier product line vastly.

    And I'm really sorry about your computer. :(

    Post edited by Psyckosama on
  • JOdelJOdel Posts: 4,862

    Yes, the Hivewire figures all come in a Studio version as well as the Poser version. Currently the Studio versions are Triax rigged. There's a Dawn 2.0 in development, with changes in the mesh, but no stated target date as yet.

    All of the human Hivewire figures currently share the same mesh. Dawn, Dusk, Baby Luna, Ruckus, Sora, and I think the Gorilla.

  • PsyckosamaPsyckosama Posts: 297
    JOdel said:

    Yes, the Hivewire figures all come in a Studio version as well as the Poser version. Currently the Studio versions are Triax rigged. There's a Dawn 2.0 in development, with changes in the mesh, but no stated target date as yet.

    All of the human Hivewire figures currently share the same mesh. Dawn, Dusk, Baby Luna, Ruckus, Sora, and I think the Gorilla.

    Yeah. Hell, if you could get La Femme into Daz it would be a good long term project.

    Note, if you intend to sell this, La Femme and the Hivewire Figures could be handled as either seperate or as an expansion product. Some people would just like to be able to export Daz morphs and clothes into Poser and would happily use your script as part of the workflow.

  • Singular BluesSingular Blues Posts: 729
    edited October 12

    There's probably a way to get anything into Studio, if you try hard enough. I'm not sure there's a strictly legal* way to do it. As far as shape transfer to poser goes, I suspect it would be more efficiently done using blender, but I don't know that. I'd need to look at some code I thing I saw in days of yore. (Not my code.) It wasn't written for Blender, but it was written in python, so it might be something that can be adapted to the task.

    Of course, it might turn out to a very simple problem to solve. I think I saw someone had a tool for putting poser weight mapped in Carrera, and I have a pretty good idea how it works if it works. A similar process could work for Studio, I think. I don't really know anything about la femme, but I assume that's based on more recent poser tech.

    *In veiw of local policy, I think I should clarify that it wouldn't be legal to distribute most automated processes. This has to do with JCMs more than anything. If I can export an object file, I can get anything into Studio the hard way.

    Post edited by Singular Blues on
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