Morphs from G3 to G8

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  • AllegraAllegra Posts: 393

    I tried the Sickleyield method and it worked great. But my question is, why not just use the G3 version? So far I see no advantages to G8... Why do we need G8 if we already have all the morphs we want in G3??? The mouth may be a bit more realistic for some expressions but not such a big change. V8/G8 could just be another less attractive G3 character. I'm not seeing the huge advantages...

    because it's new and shiny...beside that Wonderland I really can't give you an answer..except for the wonderful expressions ;) 

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 3,694

    Also, I already have five versions of Aiko and the Girl. Through GenX and these methods, they can all be ported to G8, so is Daz going to have a new Aiko, Girl, etc...? It's all starting to feel really redundant.

  • AllegraAllegra Posts: 393

    Also, I already have five versions of Aiko and the Girl. Through GenX and these methods, they can all be ported to G8, so is Daz going to have a new Aiko, Girl, etc...? It's all starting to feel really redundant.

    I can't see updated models as this works so well...I played with lots of morphs from various models Aiko too and they were fantastic except for my minor saving problem.

  • Singular BluesSingular Blues Posts: 729
    edited June 2017

    Wonderland, 

    Why not?

    I mean G8 is more than just new and shiny. It is actually different.

    It is nigh impossible to say how different without putting it through its paces, and you can't really do that with jst the default shape.

    You could be totally correct. It could be that it's not functionally any more useful than G3. But you can't know that.

    Personally, I'm iffy, myself, on whether the changes amount to "worth it." but there's no reason to not try to find out, that I can see, other that "Don't wanna." While that is a perfectly valid reason, it's not a trump. Or a Trump, for that matter.

    However, in persuing the investigation, putting her through the paces, as it were, I've already reverse engineered an autofit clone to allow G3 to wear G8 clothing, so the effort's already "paid for it self."

    Seeing that it's at least that useful, I say again, why not?

    Post edited by Singular Blues on
  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318
    edited June 2017

    I tried the Sickleyield method and it worked great. But my question is, why not just use the G3 version? So far I see no advantages to G8... Why do we need G8 if we already have all the morphs we want in G3??? The mouth may be a bit more realistic for some expressions but not such a big change. V8/G8 could just be another less attractive G3 character. I'm not seeing the huge advantages...

    The majority of my renders are probably head and shoulders shots where the expression on the face of the character does as much to tell the story as everything else in the image put together. The new features (shown below) of the PowerPose tool in Daz offer control of even the smallest detail of G8's expression, something that's just not possible with G3. I'm over the moon with my G8 morph of G3Zarina (and others) because her face can 'say' so much more now, and so much more easily than the G3 version ever could. No more time spent on postwork or even abandoning images altogether just because G3's smile has made her lower eyelids take on a peculiar upward curve and given her a mouth like a letterbox - a few quick tweaks in PowerPose will get rid of any oddities like that, although the G8 base expressions are so much better to start with and it's often not necessary to tweak them at all. Creating my own original expressions isn't that difficult now either.

    What with being able to use the character's original texture (if it didn't use a custom UV) or those made with Skin Builder 3, G8 is rapidly becoming my 'go to' figure for female renders and I'm seriously thinking of buying the V8 Pro bundle on the strength of it, even though I've barely scratched the surface of what can be done with G8 alone.

     

    PowerPose.jpg
    595 x 800 - 140K
    Post edited by BlueIrene on
  • AllegraAllegra Posts: 393

    G3 to G8 clothing...that's fantastic Singular Blues ;)

    ..and.I..found the problem.....it's creating the G8-G3 Morph initial transfer..I saved and used it to carry over and create other morphs but for some reason it won't save them to the morph loader..but starting from scratch worked and now have Arabella and Crediwen morphs and they work like a charm so thanks everyone :) 

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,719
    edited June 2017

    I tried the Sickleyield method and it worked great. But my question is, why not just use the G3 version? So far I see no advantages to G8... Why do we need G8 if we already have all the morphs we want in G3??? The mouth may be a bit more realistic for some expressions but not such a big change. V8/G8 could just be another less attractive G3 character. I'm not seeing the huge advantages...

    The facial rigging and better posing are huge advantages to me. I got into 3D art primarily to do book covers and promo art for my writing. Along the way, I found a new hobby I love that enhances my writing process and am starting to do covers for other writers. Lifelike expressions and great posing are crucial to that, as are well draped clothes, which is why I'm also working hard to learn everything I can about dynamic clothing.

    With the latest updates to Studio and the new G8, I'm finally getting the results I've been striving towards for the past year and a half. I am totally on board with the new stuff, but not afraid to use the old stuff when needed (I love the old stuff!) I'm also learning Poser and many other things as I try to find the right tools for the right job.

    So yeah, personally I'm happy to embrace the new technology. It's opening doors I didn't even know were there. 

    Post edited by Llynara on
  • Singular BluesSingular Blues Posts: 729
    edited June 2017

    If you follow my instructions which are at tbe bottom of Page 3, I think, You can have the ability, too, Allegra. They are an alternate method for transfering morphs, but the numbered bits basically describe how to create your very own autofit clone for G3.

    You don't have to do any of the other suff.

    Post edited by Singular Blues on
  • Crushguy05Crushguy05 Posts: 51
    edited June 2017

    You are the man, Redz. Just wanted to share a quick Girl 7 render I made using the tutorial you posted.

    Post edited by Chohole on
  • Redz - Thanks for the help on this one. Everything worked really smoothly. 

    My only real problem has been some strangeness with the arms when I try to use poses. Often they go really wonky. I started a project as a G3F, and was able to turn it into a G8F. You can see my updated work here:

    https://www.sharecg.com/v/88548/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/Tiana-for-G8F-[some-nudity]

  • WonderlandWonderland Posts: 3,694
    Llynara said:

    I tried the Sickleyield method and it worked great. But my question is, why not just use the G3 version? So far I see no advantages to G8... Why do we need G8 if we already have all the morphs we want in G3??? The mouth may be a bit more realistic for some expressions but not such a big change. V8/G8 could just be another less attractive G3 character. I'm not seeing the huge advantages...

    The facial rigging and better posing are huge advantages to me. I got into 3D art primarily to do book covers and promo art for my writing. Along the way, I found a new hobby I love that enhances my writing process and am starting to do covers for other writers. Lifelike expressions and great posing are crucial to that, as are well draped clothes, which is why I'm also working hard to learn everything I can about dynamic clothing.

    With the latest updates to Studio and the new G8, I'm finally getting the results I've been striving towards for the past year and a half. I am totally on board with the new stuff, but not afraid to use the old stuff when needed (I love the old stuff!) I'm also learning Poser and many other things as I try to find the right tools for the right job.

    So yeah, personally I'm happy to embrace the new technology. It's opening doors I didn't even know were there. 

    I have sooo many expression and bending and merchant resource morphs for G3 already...  The free G8 doesn't have as many dots, is that from a morph package? I also found that if I play with just the free G8 facial morphs, expressions and visemes, I can do quite a lot with facial expressions. I'm waiting to hear a response from my ticket to see if they'll give me a discount since I have the Victoria pro bundle stuff but bought individually, not as a bundle. I still haven't used my coupon so may go for the morphs, but doubt I'll be investing a bunch more money into it. As of now, I don't see a huge difference, but it might be because I already have so many morphs for G3...

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,719

    I have tried nearly every expression pack available for G3F. I own so many, and most make her look like a cartoon, so most of the time I had her mouth shut (as well as G3M.) That really limits the emotion you can put into a scene. They always look very stoic and cryptic. From the get go, G8 doesn't look like that at all with expressions. Huge difference in my opinion. 

  • MelanieLMelanieL Posts: 4,666
    Llynara said:

    I tried the Sickleyield method and it worked great. But my question is, why not just use the G3 version? So far I see no advantages to G8... Why do we need G8 if we already have all the morphs we want in G3??? The mouth may be a bit more realistic for some expressions but not such a big change. V8/G8 could just be another less attractive G3 character. I'm not seeing the huge advantages...

    The facial rigging and better posing are huge advantages to me. I got into 3D art primarily to do book covers and promo art for my writing. Along the way, I found a new hobby I love that enhances my writing process and am starting to do covers for other writers. Lifelike expressions and great posing are crucial to that, as are well draped clothes, which is why I'm also working hard to learn everything I can about dynamic clothing.

    With the latest updates to Studio and the new G8, I'm finally getting the results I've been striving towards for the past year and a half. I am totally on board with the new stuff, but not afraid to use the old stuff when needed (I love the old stuff!) I'm also learning Poser and many other things as I try to find the right tools for the right job.

    So yeah, personally I'm happy to embrace the new technology. It's opening doors I didn't even know were there.

    I have sooo many expression and bending and merchant resource morphs for G3 already...  The free G8 doesn't have as many dots, is that from a morph package? I also found that if I play with just the free G8 facial morphs, expressions and visemes, I can do quite a lot with facial expressions. I'm waiting to hear a response from my ticket to see if they'll give me a discount since I have the Victoria pro bundle stuff but bought individually, not as a bundle. I still haven't used my coupon so may go for the morphs, but doubt I'll be investing a bunch more money into it. As of now, I don't see a huge difference, but it might be because I already have so many morphs for G3...

    My free G8 has plenty of dots - have you installed the PowerPose Templates download? Try this: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/2539036/#Comment_2539036

  • AllegraAllegra Posts: 393

    If you follow my instructions which are at tbe bottom of Page 3, I think, You can have the ability, too, Allegra. They are an alternate method for transfering morphs, but the numbered bits basically describe how to create your very own autofit clone for G3.

    You don't have to do any of the other suff.

    Thank you so much...love having the ability to go backwards and forwards without limitations :) 

  • BlueIreneBlueIrene Posts: 1,318
    Llynara said:

    I have tried nearly every expression pack available for G3F. I own so many, and most make her look like a cartoon, so most of the time I had her mouth shut (as well as G3M.) That really limits the emotion you can put into a scene. They always look very stoic and cryptic. From the get go, G8 doesn't look like that at all with expressions. Huge difference in my opinion. 

    I know what you mean about having to have the mouth closed all the time. I found you couldn't really win with that either if you wanted a really happy smile as there was only so far you could go with a closed-mouth smile without G3 looking like she was participating in some kind of gurning competition. G8 can smile so broadly and still look realistic that you can even get her laughing.

    I'm a slow typist, Wonderland, so someone has probably got there before me with this, but I only have the base G8 so far and still have all the PowerPose dots. If you're in the screen that's showing you just sixteen or so, look just above that face to the top left of it and you'll see a smaller, multi-coloured face. Clicking on that will bring up another screen showing the face with all the dots so that you can go into more detail.

  • MoranaMorana Posts: 319

    Thank you so much for this!  I'm loving G8 more and more!  This is straight Gia 7 morph on G8.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 11,892
    edited June 2017

    Oh it's nice to see Girl 7 transferred. I'm indecisive on whether to do so myself as I don't want to clutter up my G8F folder too much and then I think Girl 8 ain't going to be out till spring 2018. I guess I'll just stick with Girl 7 til then and use these great directions for transferring one-off morphs.

    Thanks Singular Blues, Redz, & Sickle Yield.

    Post edited by nonesuch00 on
  • MBuschMBusch Posts: 535
    Ki-Jen said:

    And the (nearly) full body shots:

    Redz methodOriginalSickleyield/Kattay

    Body conversion unfortunately didn't work as well as the head. The arms are not straight and the body is wider compared to the original. Look at the distance between the legs.This is most probably a result of the different body shapes of G3 and G8. I fear, no conversion method can change this without working on the mesh itself.

    But the results are still impressive. Thanks a lot Redz, Kattey, SickleYield and all here on the forum for making this possible.

    ... but I'm greedy wink. While the body conversions most probably wouldn't work in practice, at least for Aiko 6, the head conversions are really great. Hence my question: Is there a way to create head morph conversions only, without changing the body at all? I tried with the Aiko 6 head morph, but the body is still changing a bit, even if I didn't morph anything there.

    I have the same question. Someone?

  • LlynaraLlynara Posts: 4,719
    edited June 2017

    Beautiful renders, everyone! Here is Gwennili on G8F with new lobe shaders via the freebie lobe shader script here. Still need to tweak the pose a bit. I'm finding that sometimes the legs and toes need adjustment, in addition to the upper arms. The bow and arrow wouldn't parent correctly and were a nightmare to get in place. Still not quite right. 

    Tomorrow I'll move and test more moprhs with Redz' latest conversion updates (this is the original conversion method Redz posted and it looks fine.)

     

    Post edited by Llynara on
  • JCThomasJCThomas Posts: 247

    I'm getting some pretty significant distortion in the eyes on G8 despite following the steps correctly. I thought it may have been the specific morphs, but I'm not trying to do anything more drastic than what's been demonstrated here. Any thoughts?

  • dracorndracorn Posts: 2,237

    I tried the Sickleyield method and it worked great. But my question is, why not just use the G3 version? So far I see no advantages to G8... Why do we need G8 if we already have all the morphs we want in G3??? The mouth may be a bit more realistic for some expressions but not such a big change. V8/G8 could just be another less attractive G3 character. I'm not seeing the huge advantages...

    The majority of my renders are probably head and shoulders shots where the expression on the face of the character does as much to tell the story as everything else in the image put together. The new features (shown below) of the PowerPose tool in Daz offer control of even the smallest detail of G8's expression, something that's just not possible with G3. I'm over the moon with my G8 morph of G3Zarina (and others) because her face can 'say' so much more now, and so much more easily than the G3 version ever could. No more time spent on postwork or even abandoning images altogether just because G3's smile has made her lower eyelids take on a peculiar upward curve and given her a mouth like a letterbox - a few quick tweaks in PowerPose will get rid of any oddities like that, although the G8 base expressions are so much better to start with and it's often not necessary to tweak them at all. Creating my own original expressions isn't that difficult now either.

    What with being able to use the character's original texture (if it didn't use a custom UV) or those made with Skin Builder 3, G8 is rapidly becoming my 'go to' figure for female renders and I'm seriously thinking of buying the V8 Pro bundle on the strength of it, even though I've barely scratched the surface of what can be done with G8 alone.

     

    I missed this part of the PowerPose.  I started to play around with it - wow, what fun!   Beyond expressions, here is a place to make additional face morphs. 

    I was upset that ear angle was missing from the base morph package, because I use this to make adjustments to my elf ears.  I'm glad to see it here.

    This is also the place to create an assymetrical face - with much more control than before. 

    Happy as a clam!

    ...Anybody have an idea what happy clams do?

  • nakamuram002nakamuram002 Posts: 393

    Using Redz's method - My face morphs also affect G8's body - especially the shoulders.  I guess our clones are not perfect. 

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,372
    Ki-Jen said:

    And the (nearly) full body shots:

    Redz methodOriginalSickleyield/Kattay

    Body conversion unfortunately didn't work as well as the head. The arms are not straight and the body is wider compared to the original. Look at the distance between the legs.This is most probably a result of the different body shapes of G3 and G8. I fear, no conversion method can change this without working on the mesh itself.

    But the results are still impressive. Thanks a lot Redz, Kattey, Sickleyield and all here on the forum for making this possible.

    ... but I'm greedy wink. While the body conversions most probably wouldn't work in practice, at least for Aiko 6, the head conversions are really great. Hence my question: Is there a way to create head morph conversions only, without changing the body at all? I tried with the Aiko 6 head morph, but the body is still changing a bit, even if I didn't morph anything there.

     

    Using Redz's method - My face morphs also affect G8's body - especially the shoulders.  I guess our clones are not perfect. 

    In the Morph Transfer Helper file, the G8F has the Genesis 3 female clone dialled in. This is because the morphs you are transferring were modelled on this base, so for the best fidelity of shape, I dialled it in. However, the base shapes are similar enough that I think you could get away without having the G3F clone dialled in. It's under parameters, hidden- clones. (You may need to enable show hidden properties in the drop down box of the parameters first). 

    If you dial this Genesis 3 Female to zero before proceeding with the tutorial as normal, then I think you can bring over the head morphs without affecting the G8F body. 

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,372
    JCThomas said:

    I'm getting so

    If you follow my instructions which are at tbe bottom of Page 3, I think, You can have the ability, too, Allegra. They are an alternate method for transfering morphs, but the numbered bits basically describe how to create your very own autofit clone for G3.

    You don't have to do any of the other suff.

    I used your method to make a G8F clone for G3F and it works perfectly :)

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,372

    Redz - Thanks for the help on this one. Everything worked really smoothly. 

    My only real problem has been some strangeness with the arms when I try to use poses. Often they go really wonky. I started a project as a G3F, and was able to turn it into a G8F. You can see my updated work here:

    https://www.sharecg.com/v/88548/browse/21/DAZ-Studio/Tiana-for-G8F-[some-nudity]

    Are they poses designed for G3F or G8F? If G3F, there's a freebie script here on the forum to fix g3 poses on G8F. If they're G8F poses, I'm not seeing any problems, so maybe we are doing something different along the way. Somebody else reported odd arm posing, They said they are orientation checked when adjusting the rigging to shape, whereas by default it is unchecked. Not sure if that's the difference. 

  • Ki-JenKi-Jen Posts: 48

    Ki-Jen, Did you use the updated method?

    At least, I downloaded and installed the new files from Redz. I hope I didn't accidently use the old version. But I will try again.

  • Ki-JenKi-Jen Posts: 48
    Redz said:
    Ki-Jen said:
    <snip>

    Hence my question: Is there a way to create head morph conversions only, without changing the body at all? I tried with the Aiko 6 head morph, but the body is still changing a bit, even if I didn't morph anything there.

     

    Using Redz's method - My face morphs also affect G8's body - especially the shoulders.  I guess our clones are not perfect. 

    In the Morph Transfer Helper file, the G8F has the Genesis 3 female clone dialled in. This is because the morphs you are transferring were modelled on this base, so for the best fidelity of shape, I dialled it in. However, the base shapes are similar enough that I think you could get away without having the G3F clone dialled in. It's under parameters, hidden- clones. (You may need to enable show hidden properties in the drop down box of the parameters first). 

    If you dial this Genesis 3 Female to zero before proceeding with the tutorial as normal, then I think you can bring over the head morphs without affecting the G8F body. 

    Again, thank you for all your great work and support. I will try this later today.

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,372
    JCThomas said:

    I'm getting some pretty significant distortion in the eyes on G8 despite following the steps correctly. I thought it may have been the specific morphs, but I'm not trying to do anything more drastic than what's been demonstrated here. Any thoughts?

    Maybe pictures or examples of which morphs? Which method are you using? I've found the transfer utility method doesn't like TeenJulie or Izabella's eyes and messes them up. The morph export method seems better for this. In contrast TU handles things like Anneka Demon's nail shape, which the morph export ignores.

  • Hi there, will try out those tutorials and hope to be able to start transfering over morphs soon. Some questions as I'm not fully aware what is possible and what not:

    - Figures with just a head and body morph. Is it possible to copy over head and body separately? Or just as one figure morph?
    - HD Morphs. Either from DAZ original figures or from vendor figures. Those are not possible to transfer, right?
    - Single morphs form packs like from Thorne (the various Ressource Kits) or Zev0. Those are possible, right?
    - Interconnected morph kits with controllers like Age Control, Growing Up etc. Those are not possible to transfer?
    - Various helpers (projection morphs?) like those from SickleYield or Zev0?
    - Morphs connected to geografts like tails, horns etc. Possible but makes no sense as the geograft won't fit?

    Thanks for any info on this. I have a huge morph library for G3F so I might purchase some G8 updates someday nevertheless as long as they'll be reasonably priced (as far as I understand, it might be not that much work for a PA to port a product over) or adding additional features. Maybe a new Age Control or Growing up can make use of the new face posing/expression capabilities.

  • RedzRedz Posts: 1,372

    A couple of experiments.

    First, showing Izabella 7's head morph using first the Transfer Utility, and secondly the Morph Import method. Tween Julie similarly fares better. Thus, for some of these more extreme eye shapes, the morph import method may be better, though not necessarily perfect.

    Second test using Anneka Demon's HD Body morph. Neither method transfers the HD detail, so that is sadly lost. The current morph import method ignores much of the hand and all of the nail detail.

    The transfer utility does better, but distorts the nails.

    So I made a G8F Clone for G3F using Singular Blues method on page three of this thread. Once I had this clone, I was able to reverse the process to make a new clone of Genesis 3 Female for G8F.

    With this clone dialled in rather than the default G3F clone provided, the fidelity of the morph transfer is much better. (See last image)

    Dialling in this new G3F clone on top of the Transfer Utility also produces the same result (whereas the default G3F clone provided with Daz Studio does not).

    So I'm concluding that it is probably worth the extra effort of making a new G3F Clone using Singular Blues Method, regardless of which method you prefer to use.

    Let me know if a step by step tutorial to make the new clones would be helpful. Singular Blues' description is fairly clear. Then once the G8F clone for G3F is saved, you can use it the same way to 'fit' a copy of G8F to G3F and create a new alternate G3F clone for G8F. It adds a bit to the workflow, but for some morphs may give a significantly improved result.

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