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Shader-mixer: Double sided materials? YES! (SOLVED)

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  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Age of Armour said:
    Pendraia said:

    Richard and Age of Armour are both very very clever...if Richard doesn't mind I'm happy to attempt to put together the network for people to play with and also Age of Armour's.

    I can generally follow where others lead...; ) lol

    Thanks but I don't know that I am clever... Some of the permutations I try just accidentally work once in a while haha.

    Feel free to use that network any way you like. I'm happy to contribute. If it weren't for you and others posting networks here in the forums I don't know that I would have ever figured out how to use Shader Mixer.

    Lol that's what I do play with different bricks and if I'm lucky I find something I like...I wouldn't have known where to start to develop a network like this.

    As you both are okay with it I will set up the networks as you have them in your images for people to play with and put them up on ShareCG with a link back to the thread and credit where due. Should be able to do it this weekend...

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Mattymanx said:
    Just a note:

    By default, DAZ Studio will render normals forward regardless of what they are on the model itself. While this is useful for rendering in DS, if you export your scene to Lux Render, then the normals will be facing the same as they are on the model itself.

    Poser will not render normals forward by default. You need to go to the Material Room and on every surface, check off the "Normals Forward" box near the bottom.

    Do Shadermixer shaders work in reality or lux render Matty?I didn't think they would...

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,996
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Mattymanx said:
    Just a note:

    By default, DAZ Studio will render normals forward regardless of what they are on the model itself. While this is useful for rendering in DS, if you export your scene to Lux Render, then the normals will be facing the same as they are on the model itself.

    Poser will not render normals forward by default. You need to go to the Material Room and on every surface, check off the "Normals Forward" box near the bottom.

    Do Shadermixer shaders work in reality or lux render Matty?I didn't think they would...


    No they dont. The Reality plugin will only read certain info from them. Diffuse, spec, bump and displacement is what Reality looks for mostly (I think I forgot one) and it takes the textures and colours of those settings and passes them along to Lux if you want it to. Reality does not read from poseworks shaders at all though. It should read that info from HSS though.

    In short, if your going to send the scene to Lux Render via Reality then dont bother with any special shaders in DS as they are only for rendering in DS.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited January 2013

    Does anyone know of an easy way to make sure that items in SM end grouped together?

    I'm working on a 'complete' version of the dual sided material and I'm trying to separate things into 'Side A' and 'Side B'...and I want the image maps and such to be grouped together. And the only way I know how is a lot of after the fact editing and even then, it isn't as smooth as I'd like....can't really move things up or down.

    And thanks Richard, your network is a great starting point...I haven't tried AoA's yet.

    Independent textures on each side, with tiling and displacement...

    doublesidedmat.jpg
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    Post edited by mjc1016 on
  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    If you mean giving them their own channel like diffuse, bump etc rather than If Else, then you either need to use the cogs in the SM Properties tab or double click on the labels in the bricks to bring up the properties window, then you need to change the Path to whatever you want, it's a bit clumsy as you need to do that to each part of a brick you want to appear in that channel.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Bejaymac said:
    If you mean giving them their own channel like diffuse, bump etc rather than If Else, then you either need to use the cogs in the SM Properties tab or double click on the labels in the bricks to bring up the properties window, then you need to change the Path to whatever you want, it's a bit clumsy as you need to do that to each part of a brick you want to appear in that channel.

    Yeah, I was just wondering if there was an easier way...'clumsy'...yeah, I guess that's the 'nice' way to describe it. It's taking longer to get everything labelled and organized, logically, than it did to add all the bricks in the first place. I'm wondering if it would be possible/easier to just directly edit the dbm and duf files...

  • BejaymacBejaymac Posts: 1,942
    edited December 1969

    TBH it's a case of six of one, which ever way you go it's a PITA to do.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Age of Armour said:
    Pendraia said:

    Richard and Age of Armour are both very very clever...if Richard doesn't mind I'm happy to attempt to put together the network for people to play with and also Age of Armour's.

    I can generally follow where others lead...; ) lol

    Thanks but I don't know that I am clever... Some of the permutations I try just accidentally work once in a while haha.

    Feel free to use that network any way you like. I'm happy to contribute. If it weren't for you and others posting networks here in the forums I don't know that I would have ever figured out how to use Shader Mixer.

    Lol that's what I do play with different bricks and if I'm lucky I find something I like...I wouldn't have known where to start to develop a network like this.

    As you both are okay with it I will set up the networks as you have them in your images for people to play with and put them up on ShareCG with a link back to the thread and credit where due. Should be able to do it this weekend...

    Hopeful and curious, was there any progress on this?

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Patience55 said:
    Pendraia said:
    Age of Armour said:
    Pendraia said:

    Richard and Age of Armour are both very very clever...if Richard doesn't mind I'm happy to attempt to put together the network for people to play with and also Age of Armour's.

    I can generally follow where others lead...; ) lol

    Thanks but I don't know that I am clever... Some of the permutations I try just accidentally work once in a while haha.

    Feel free to use that network any way you like. I'm happy to contribute. If it weren't for you and others posting networks here in the forums I don't know that I would have ever figured out how to use Shader Mixer.

    Lol that's what I do play with different bricks and if I'm lucky I find something I like...I wouldn't have known where to start to develop a network like this.

    As you both are okay with it I will set up the networks as you have them in your images for people to play with and put them up on ShareCG with a link back to the thread and credit where due. Should be able to do it this weekend...

    Hopeful and curious, was there any progress on this?

    Sorry, I got caught up at work. First term is always pretty full on. I will try my hardest to get it done this weekend.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited March 2013

    Okay Richards is done...for some reason it isn't letting me post an image to the forum.

    I'll package it up and put it up on sharecg...

    AOA's is done also...both give similar results.

    I'm still trying to upload Richard's to ShareCG

    It seems to be taking forever for an 18kb file I may have to wait until tomorrow and see if the connection improves. Both should be uploaded by the weekend.

    Images seem to be working now...the vest is Age of Armours and the cape is Richards network

    edited to add link for Richard's network http://www.sharecg.com/v/67744/view/7/Material-and-Shader/Richards-doublesided-ShaderMixer-network

    link for Age of Armours http://www.sharecg.com/v/67747/view/7/Material-and-Shader/Age-of-Armours-Doublesided-Shadermixer-network

    richards_shader_network.jpg
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    age_of_armors_network.jpg
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    age_of_armors_network2.jpg
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    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • SkirikiSkiriki Posts: 4,976
    edited December 1969

    OMG! DO WANT! Thanks, Pendraia, Richard, Age of Armour! OMG OMG OMG! This is all I've ever dreamed of!

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited March 2013

    Skiriki said:
    OMG! DO WANT! Thanks, Pendraia, Richard, Age of Armour! OMG OMG OMG! This is all I've ever dreamed of!
    Glad you like it! Let me know if it doesn't work properly, My brain was ever so slightly fried when I did it last night but I was worried it wouldn't get done if I left it for another time.

    I didn't include textures so you will need to add them in through either the surface map or Shadermixer. I did add the image bricks in so if you are using shadermixer just locate the image bricks and add them in by clicking on the triangle and you should get a drop down box that will allow you to browse to the images you want to use..

    The colour is taken from the colour on the image files. So if you want to change the colour you using look at the image brick also. It is possible to add bump or displacement fairly easily so if you want a preset that includes that let me know.

    age_of_armors_networkwith_displacement.jpg
    800 x 843 - 154K
    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    Skiriki said:
    OMG! DO WANT! Thanks, Pendraia, Richard, Age of Armour! OMG OMG OMG! This is all I've ever dreamed of!
    Glad you like it! Let me know if it doesn't work properly, My brain was ever so slightly fried when I did it last night but I was worried it wouldn't get done if I left it for another time.

    I didn't include textures so you will need to add them in through either the surface map or Shadermixer. I did add the image bricks in so if you are using shadermixer just locate the image bricks and add them in by clicking on the triangle and you should get a drop down box that will allow you to browse to the images you want to use..

    The colour is taken from the colour on the image files. So if you want to change the colour you using look at the image brick also. It is possible to add bump or displacement fairly easily so if you want a preset that includes that let me know.

    oh thank you ... going to make a lot of people happy!!!!

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    This is definitely a great concept and shader implementation. Searching around, other than some complex custom shaders, there isn't much like this for 3Delight/Renderman. I've been playing with the original recipes and got some great results.

    I haven't looked at what Pen has posted...I will later. This is a fun and useful item to have.

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    This is definitely a great concept and shader implementation. Searching around, other than some complex custom shaders, there isn't much like this for 3Delight/Renderman. I've been playing with the original recipes and got some great results.

    I haven't looked at what Pen has posted...I will later. This is a fun and useful item to have.

    Mine is just the networks that Richard and Age of Armour posted with an image brick added in so that they can use images. It's very basic. I'm sure your playing around is much more detailed.

  • Jeanne MJeanne M Posts: 652
    edited December 1969

    Pendraia said:
    mjc1016 said:
    This is definitely a great concept and shader implementation. Searching around, other than some complex custom shaders, there isn't much like this for 3Delight/Renderman. I've been playing with the original recipes and got some great results.

    I haven't looked at what Pen has posted...I will later. This is a fun and useful item to have.

    Mine is just the networks that Richard and Age of Armour posted with an image brick added in so that they can use images. It's very basic. I'm sure your playing around is much more detailed.
    Don't put your light under the shelves Pen! Just let it shine everywhere please? :)

    Thank you so much for the work you did on this one. Have a vey nice day and a great weekend!
    Off to download....

    Love, Jeanne

  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Thanks Jeane, glad you like it...: )

  • sem.summers_30767806a5sem.summers_30767806a5 Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Hi everyone. I have one question that seems very related to what is dicussed here.

    I'm trying to create Shadow catcher shader for non flat object. Simple shadow catcher works cool on planes, but on object that has volume like cube, sphere etc shadows are not handled the right way - we can see shadow on back faces of our Shadow catcher object.
    Maybe someone have already found the solution?
    I've posted screens of my simple progress. I havent researched shader mixer a lot so that's all I could make.
    The result seems fine but there are some kind of shading on cilinder sides still visible.

    Screen261.jpg
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    Screen259.jpg
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  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited December 1969

    Sem B said:
    Hi everyone. I have one question that seems very related to what is dicussed here.

    I'm trying to create Shadow catcher shader for non flat object. Simple shadow catcher works cool on planes, but on object that has volume like cube, sphere etc shadows are not handled the right way - we can see shadow on back faces of our Shadow catcher object.
    Maybe someone have already found the solution?
    I've posted screens of my simple progress. I havent researched shader mixer a lot so that's all I could make.
    The result seems fine but there are some kind of shading on cilinder sides still visible.

    I'm assuming Carnite's tutorial is only for a plane...is there any reason why you need to use an object with volume? Sorry not trying to put you off, just trying to understand what your attempting to achieve.
  • CypherFOXCypherFOX Posts: 3,401
    edited December 1969

    Greetings,
    Wow... Okay, for some reason I had no idea that Shader Mixer had if/else blocks and such.

    Could the dual-sided trick be used to make a 'fishbowl' room? One where the camera on the outside saw transparent walls, but once you're inside, you see the normal wallpaper/paint/etc., of the walls? Or would this hose render time/lighting badly?

    As for the shadow catcher, take this image done using the Yosemite HDR set. There's a big-arse rock behind her, and while I positioned it so it's reasonable that she's not casting a shadow on it, it would be awesome to have it as a non-planar model to catch her shadow as it curved along the rock.

    Not the OP of that question, but just supporting the idea that non-planar shadow catchers would be awesome... :)

    -- Morgan

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,885
    edited October 2013

    I made a fisbowl room, but rather than use the facing of the normal I used a ray test to change the opacity so that the wall was transparent to direct camera rays but opaque to reflection and shadow rays.

    A shadow catcher should work on any object - pwCatch itself certainly does.

    Post edited by Richard Haseltine on
  • PendraiaPendraia Posts: 3,598
    edited November 2013

    Richard Haseltine said:
    I made a fisbowl room, but rather than use the facing of the normal I used a ray test to change the opacity so that the wall was transparent to direct camera rays but opaque to reflection and shadow rays.

    A shadow catcher should work on any object - pwCatch itself certainly does.

    Kerya posted this link in the tutorial thread will it help? http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/30173/


    Not having done Carnite's tutorial I'm not sure what it can or cannot do...


    edited to add link...sorry braindead after work!

    sorry just realised this is for a different function from PW catch...

    Post edited by Pendraia on
  • marcuswilmmarcuswilm Posts: 23
    edited May 2014

    Post edited by marcuswilm on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 107,885
    edited December 1969

    Sure, it would be nice to have an acknowledgement but I posted the network as a source to help others so I'm quite happy for you to take it, adapt it and post it for use.

  • marcuswilmmarcuswilm Posts: 23
    edited May 2014

    Post edited by marcuswilm on
  • marcuswilmmarcuswilm Posts: 23
    edited April 2014

    (comment removed - not useful)

    Post edited by marcuswilm on
  • marcuswilmmarcuswilm Posts: 23
    edited April 2014

    (comment removed - not useful)

    Post edited by marcuswilm on
  • marcuswilmmarcuswilm Posts: 23
    edited May 2014

    Post edited by marcuswilm on
  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    marcuswilm said:
    Hi everybody :-)

    This is the link to download the enhanced version of the Shader Preset named "DoubleSide2" from my Gallery on ShareCG

    Technically, this is a shader, not a preset.

  • marcuswilmmarcuswilm Posts: 23
    edited May 2014

    Post edited by marcuswilm on
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