dForce Biblical/Mesopotamian Outfits from Meshitup (or any other artist)
Epic82
Posts: 126
(I apologize in advance for the length of this request, but a lot has happened since I first made it.)
I was pleased to see Meshitup's Desert Robes for Genesis 8 Males. Even though it's not exactly Mesopotamian, I was glad to see a product here at Daz that's perfect for biblical renders. Therefore, this request is directed primarily to that artist. In October of 2016, I began requesting Mesopotamia-themed outfits for Genesis 3 figures. Throughout 2017, I went on sort of a "campaign" from here at Daz3D, to Renderosity, to HiveWire3D to request Mesopotamian outfits, props, and a city from any vendors who would be interested in creating them. Because I've tried to respond to almost everyone who's been kind enough to post comments here in this thread, it's received hundreds of views. A vendor from Renderosity has told me that Daz is getting interested in pre-Roman products. And now that Daz has Genesis 8 and its dForce physics engine, I thought it might be a good idea to update my request again.
I've made some progress in my "campaign". At HiveWire3D, I received a great response from several of the artists there. Among them, Ken Gililland updated his large Hanging Gardens of Nimrud set for the Iray and SuperFly render engines just for me. At Renderosity, a community relations specialist told me she thinks Mesopotamian products would be great, and she passed on my request to Renderosity's Marketplace manager to give Renderosity's vendors my suggestion. And lately, I've been communicating with a vendor at Renderosity who will be releasing at least one Mesopotamian outfit sometime in the near future.
Now that I have a large Mesopotamian set, Ken Gililland's Hanging Gardens of Nimrud, I would like to have several Mesopotamian outfits for Genesis 8 figures. For those of us who would like to make biblical renders, we’re sort of out of luck because most of the ancient Near Eastern products Daz artists have created are based on ancient Egypt. On my website, I plan to create a large gallery of biblical renders, and most of them will take place in a Mesopotamian-like setting. I'm not satisfied with taking different items from unrelated products to create these outfits, like I've done with my Lords of Babylon render. The red oufit in that render in composed of a scarf from Mec4D's Vintage Indian Sari and I combined it with Greek Chic Outift for Genesis 2 Female(s) to make a male/female Mesopotamian-like outfit. This is what you see in the attachments below. I also used a fez from Turban, Turban Band, and Fez from sharecg to represent a Mesopotamian king's crown. The results I get are okay but not anywhere near as realistic and detailed as they could be. I would like outfits that look more authentically Mesopotamian.
I would like to suggest three basic outfits.
Mesopotamian Male Outfit
Here are examples of this type of oufit: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
Mesopotamian Female Outfit
Here are examples of this type of outfit: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
Mesopotamian Warrior
Here are examples of this type of outfit: 1, 2, 3, 4
If you visit my page on deviantart, just type Archon3D, and look at my Favorites, you'll see many more examples of what I'm talking about.
None of these outfits has to be as historically accurate as possible; they can be generic. I would just like outfits that are noticeably Mesopotamian and would complement Ken Gilliland's Hanging Gardens of Nimrud set. They can be used for both fantasy and historical renders. To give you an example of how they can be used in fantasy renders, fans of Game of Thrones can use them in renders of the city of Meereen, Astapor, and Yunkai, since those fictional cultures seem to have been based on Mesopotamian cultures. Most importantly, with Daz's new dForce physics engine, the long, flowing outfits Mesopotamians wore would be easier to drape onto Daz's figures than ever before.
Here is a list of books that illustrate Mesopotamian outfits.
The Chronicle of Western Costume: From the Ancient World to the Late Twentieth Century (John Peacock)
Ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Persian Costume (Mary G. Houston)
Everyday Life in Ancient Times (H.M. Herget, Gilbert Grosvenor, E.A. Speiser)
Costume of Old Testament Peoples (Philip J. Watson)
Ancient Armies of the Middle East (Terence Wise, Angus McBride)
The Ancient Assyrians (Mark Healy, Angus McBride)
What do you think of my suggestions? Meshitup, would you be interested in creating any of these products? Would any vendor be interested in creating these products?
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Comments
Great! I'm longing for such items...
Thank you cabol for leaving a comment. I see that many people like my Babylon City Blocks and Hanging Gardens of Babylon Interior suggestion. But I was hoping more Daz users would be looking for the types of outfits and props I've posted images of here. Hopefully, Daz artists will create the products I've suggested.
while these are Celts
http://www.daz3d.com/age-of-warriors-celt-1-for-genesis
they prob could be kitbashed a bit with other Roman, Spartan, Greek, Hoplite and Trojan stuff in the store.
I know you can get such stuff for iClone not that that helps
Would be very cool
maybe Wilmap might see this thead
I like this idea.
I'm trying to put together something for some game renders, and the choices that exist are less than optimal, imho.
All,
Thank you for more comments. I've edited my remarks above to include information about my past attempts to create Mesopotamian-like outfits. I also made my request known to V3Digitimes, who's given me valuable information on what types of products Daz artists choose to create.
Wow, I ain't heard nothing talked about Mesopotamia culture since 6th grade. It is very interesting.
I heartily second this.
We (and by "we" I mean "I") need more ancient outfits. If not historically accurate, then at least "close enough".
Ancient Egyptian as well - there isn't much out there. Females outfits, yes. And they are wonderful. Fisty & Darc , Lilflame Sveva, Lady Littlefox RuntimeDNA Syyd . All detailed products that I own. And there are some older outfits as well, some of which I own.
What is missing are male, Egyptian outfits. Roman togas or other everyday wear. Greek (the Greek God Outfit might work, if you can opacity-out the spikes and stuff).
I need this stuff yesterday, btw.
Joe Webb,
I couldn't agree with you more. And thank you for commenting on my post. It seems our thinking is exactly the same on ancient civilization-themed products. I've looked at your gallery several times, and your work is excellent! Your work even focuses on many of the same themes I want to focus on in my own work. I've also made my requests known to Renderosity and Hivewire3D, and I've received responses. Hopefully, we'll be seeing many more of these types of products in the future.
Thank you justice... that is very kind of you. Yes, I'm interested in ancient historical themes, I once majored in ancient history. I would think there would be a decent market for that sort of product. If for nothing else than a Biblical recreation scenes market, like you see in these religious pamphlets. Maybe not the same size market as a new bathing beauty (yes, some of us still use that term), but not insubstantial.
If you look at "Clothing and Accessories", the Historical catagory is fourth in number (481), and with Egyptian at last (54). I guess it made sense at some point to break those two out. So there isn't that much competition, as compaired to Contemporary (over 5000 outfits!). The latest one I consider to be what I would want is Warrior Monk, by Meshitup. $22.95, and its been on sale only three times since it came out? Maybe that means its making it's creator some money. I hope so, its a wonderful set that can be used in Historical, Fantasy, Horror and SciFi scenes with little to no alteration. Its a great market to get into.
(My little selling pitch, heh)
Ask and ye shall receive. The Egyptian part anyways. I'd still like Mesopotamia please :)
Yes, indeed! Daz's new Egyptian Outfit for Genesis 3 Male is simply outstanding! I'm definitely purchasing this product, maybe the bundle, in the near future. Ken Gilliland from Hivewire3D has told me that he plans to update his Hanging Gardens of Nimrud for Daz's Iray render engine and Poser's Superfly render engine. He says he'll try to move his plans for updating the Hanging Gardens to this summer. Hopefully, artists from Daz3D, Renderosity, or Hivewire3D will create outfits and props similar to the ones I've suggested on all of their websites that can be used in renders with this updated set.
Count me as another wishing for such products.
Along with city reconstructions like Babylon I'd include Jerusalem, and even Rome.
I've gone to other websites and paid hundreds of dollars for models of such things that were less than satisfactory, requiring so much touch up it was no use for final images.
As for clothing yes, I'd like realistic historical outfits, not cosplay style fantasy versions, particularly Israelite and Roman soldiers and their various ranks.
Well it's not a comprehensive representation but the recent Persion Warrier Outfit checks some of the boxes the OP was after.
https://www.daz3d.com/tus-persian-warrior-outfit-for-genesis-3-male-s
I grabbed it the day it came out. I knew that if I waited I'd have just get it anyway and have to pay more.
It looks like Meshitup is the go-to guy for ancient outfits right now. So if you're reading this, Meshitup, a couple of Mesopotamian fashion outfits would be nice. I got money with your name on it
I too was thinking about purchasing Meshitup's Tus Persian Warrior Outfit for Genesis 3 Male(s) and modifying it somewhat to look like Mesopotamian armor. Thank you for keeping this conversation going.
I can't help you with the content but, for what it's worth, I doubt if you'll find a richer source of inspiration than the long-out-of-print Everyday Life in Ancient Times, published by the National Geographic Society. Maybe you could buy a copy and forward it to the content creator of your choice...
Blind Owl,
Thank you for your suggestion. I own and know of several books with images of Mesopotamian outfits, but I'm not familair with Everyday Life in Ancient Times. I'll consider that book and others as sources I could refer 3d artists to.
To the OP keep in mind that many of the outfits you depicted.
can only be done with a good dynamic clothing system.
wolf359,
Thank you for your comment. I've spoken with an artist from Hivewire3D, and she's told me the same thing. I didn't realize this at first. I don't know much about content creation, but this might make creating some of the outfits I've suggested here difficult. I own Medieval Fantasy-Dynamic Clothes for Genesis and Genesis 2,and I've used Daz's Dynamic Clothing pane for those outfits. Would that pane work with some of the outfits I've suggested?
-Justicehonor
you can only use Optitex clothing with that panel but there is enough of a range of garments in store or on their site that someone could maybe make some decent textures for them reflecting that era.
I have also found its easy to move the rigging around on the M4 V4 stuffs after using fit to using the rigging tool to use with later figures for draping and animation too.
you cannot save it rigged but you can at least place the bones in the right places prior to simulating and freezing your drape which saves.
Great suggestion here, and I would like to add to the list all the never well seen bronze age civilizations like a realistic eager and mid Minoic in Creta, Eager Babylon (not the assyrian or persian)...
Please, please, please, bring to live the bronze age :)
Happy to join this thread as Archon3D brought it to my attention. Hello everyone.
Regarding historically accurate props from antiquity (of all periods), I've recently stumbled across the amazing Sketchfab (https://sketchfab.com/Sketchfab). No doubt some of you already know it. It's a treasure trove of high-quality free OBJ models with textures, many of them available for download on Creative Commons licenses. Lots are based on sculptures from museum collections. The British Museum are active in uploading scanned objects from their own collection but I've discovered lots of goodies from other accounts.
The best thing is that this quality is (generally) what you'd get from Turbosquid but it's free. There's a lot of Greek and Roman sculpture. There's even a beautiful Ishtar Gate model, but sadly that isn't available for download. Of course, because these items come from museums they look old rather than brand new, as you'd probably want if you were doing historical renders. However, I'd really recommend checking out the site.
Attached, though, are images of a few of the bronze age / Mesopotamian / Persian things I snaffled. These are all my own renders, no postwork, to show off the quality of the models themselves. All textures came with the models but I made my own bump maps.
wolf359 and th3Digit,
Now that Daz has its dForce physics engine, do either of you think the products I'm suggesting here could be made?
Leander,
Sorry for the extremely long time it took me to respond to your comment, but thank you for directing me to sketchfab. I might use some of the models there.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Archon3D for bringing this up. I too would love clothing for suitable for renders of biblical images or classical art. I've thought that it had to do with the issue of flowing clothing, but with dForce now a reality, the problems with draped clothing should be lessened. I've also wished for poses that would assist. (Yes, for many of the poses, one could use what's available--but not for all. For years, I've dreamed of doing a Pieta, for example.) I would be OK with working on the poses myself, though. It's the clothing that defeats me. Some people are good with kitbashing. (Leander, for example, is a genius with it and a continual source of envy, admiration and inspiration.) Me, not so much. So, I would really welcome clothing (and props) that would be useful for biblical images.
Hi Archon3D,
I just got your message, thanks for bringing my attention to this post.
I have just finished a project and about to start on another so I will build one Mesopotamian outfit, if there is a demand I will build more. It wiil take about 7 to 8 weeks before it is in the store assuming it is accepted by Daz.
Can't wait to purchase all MESOPOTAMIAN things you do!