Tutorial Uber Area Lighting: The Basics

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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Nice call Richard as I have been sitting here scratching my head over this one. Yes it should work fine with those settings. What prop is this?

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited December 1969

    What happens if you turn shadows off? It looks to me as if the shader is being applied to a surface that is covered by another surface.

    Yes, it does look like something is blocking it (as there is a thin annulus of light escaping at the back.

    Here it is with shadows off... (btw I have applied a chrome shader preset to the reflector)

    Untitled-1.jpg
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  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    What prop is this from, store or a freebie?

    There may be a way around this using the Polygon Group Editor Tool which is really easy to do and use. :) Giving the Obstructing surfaces a mat zone of it's own and using that as the Area Light base or jus thide it so the bulb surface shows through.

    Second post down is a tut on how to use the Polygon Group Editor Tool http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/18401/

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited April 2013

    Szark said:
    What prop is this from, store or a freebie?

    There may be a way around this using the Polygon Group Editor Tool which is really easy to do and use. :) Giving the Obstructing surfaces a mat zone of it's own and using that as the Area Light base or jus thide it so the bulb surface shows through.

    Second post down is a tut on how to use the Polygon Group Editor Tool http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/18401/

    It's a freebie, but I am damned if I can remember where from. I thought it was from Share CG, but I can't see it there.

    well, I guess... but how can there be an obstructing surface? There are only five MATs and they are all listed. I am applying the UA to the lampmat. How can there be another one in front of that one? Id there were, I would surely be selecting it when i click on the bulb with the surface selector tool?

    Post edited by Sertorial on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Yeah that is why wanted to look myself as I can't figure it out either. Sorry but I am stumped with this one. Arrrrrrrr my brain is overloading thinking baout it. LOL

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 64,742
    edited December 1969

    What do you get if you click on the area that's black in your render with the Surface Selection Tool? Is it a separate material, or does it also select the inner sides of the shade?

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited December 1969

    What do you get if you click on the area that's black in your render with the Surface Selection Tool? Is it a separate material, or does it also select the inner sides of the shade?

    but it's precisely that black area (the light bulb) that I am applying the uberarea light to ! That's why this whole thing is so weird.

    There are only five surfaces in the prop:
    1 the stand metalwork
    2 the inner reflector surface (which I have set as a chrome shader preset)
    3 the outer body of the lamp
    4 the lamp bracket
    5 the light bulb

    It is 5 I have applied the uberarea light to. There are no other surfaces?! I just can't imagine what's going on.

    Is it something to do with my ambient channel? (but uberarea shouldn't need that, right?)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Ambient is not required for there to be light in DS4.5.1.56 I checked earlier. ;)

    I have also been trying to find this prop to take a look myself but came up short. Is there a readme with the prop, in the Zip file it came in? It may give us a clue to who made it and where I could download it from. I am intrigued with this and would like to solve it. :)

  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    Ambient is not required for there to be light in DS4.5.1.56 I checked earlier. ;)

    I have also been trying to find this prop to take a look myself but came up short. Is there a readme with the prop, in the Zip file it came in? It may give us a clue to who made it and where I could download it from. I am intrigued with this and would like to solve it. :)

    Found it!

    http://www.renderosity.com/mod/freestuff/details.php?item_id=70406

    Right. Go and play, and tell me when you've cracked it ;)

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited April 2013

    Nice one. Once I have done my daily chores etc I will have a play and report back.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    1: Download and Unzipped file
    2: Import obj in to Daz Studio 4.5.1.56
    3: Selected Lamp surface in the surfaces pane
    4: Applied UberArea Light Base
    5: Rendered Result image 1 as it should be

    6: Turned on Ambient, gave it a bright colour
    7: Applied Chrome preset to the reflector
    8: Rendered result image 2

    So I have no idea why it won't work for you.

    Richard any ideas??

    Lamp1_copy.jpg
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    Lamp_copy.jpg
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  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    1: Download and Unzipped file
    2: Import obj in to Daz Studio 4.5.1.56
    3: Selected Lamp surface in the surfaces pane
    4: Applied UberArea Light Base
    5: Rendered Result image 1 as it should be

    6: Turned on Ambient, gave it a bright colour
    7: Applied Chrome preset to the reflector
    8: Rendered result image 2

    So I have no idea why it won't work for you.

    Richard any ideas??

    Hang on though. We are getting the same results. I am getting the same as your image 1 (ie a black light bulb, despite applying the uber area light base). We agreed ambient shouldn't be necessary

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited April 2013

    With my image one Area light Shadows Turned ON which is the same as your original post on the issue http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/P45/#292282 (your render shows no light with shadows turned on hence why you posted) with yours you had to turn Off Shadows to get light...correct? When Ricard asked if you get light with shadows turned off you got this http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/P60/#292326

    Ambient is only required for the surface to Glow not to cast light.

    My advice is to make a new scene load the OBJ again and redo. :)

    Post edited by Szark on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Sertorial said:

    Yes, it does look like something is blocking it (as there is a thin annulus of light escaping at the back.


    I missed this bit before. The reason you get light coming out the back is becasue you turned shadows off. Yes light will pass through objects when shadow are turned off. This is why Richard asked you to turn shadows off to see if there was indeed light being cast.
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited April 2013

    Szark said:
    Sertorial said:

    Yes, it does look like something is blocking it (as there is a thin annulus of light escaping at the back.


    I missed this bit before. The reason you get light coming out the back is becasue you turned shadows off. Yes light will pass through objects when shadow are turned off. This is why Richard asked you to turn shadows off to see if there was indeed light being cast.

    but even when I turned shadows off (my second image) the light bulb still looks black! What could possibly be blocking it? Not only is there no other surface in front, but shadows are off anyway!

    Doesn't make sense.

    Oh, hang on... are you saying a black looking light bulb can nevertheless case light? That's weird. Why does the bulb appear black? (that's not very realistic, dare I say)

    Post edited by Sertorial on
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited April 2013

    3 posts up I said this

    Ambient is only required for the surface to Glow not to cast light.
    which means adding Uber Area light WILL NOT make a surface Glow but Emit light. To make the Surface GLOW (not cast light but GLOW) you NEED to have Ambient turned On. Ambient is not required for the surface to Emit and light but the illusion of light.

    And no not very realistic but were are not talking about a realistic render engine like an unbiased render engine like Octane and Lux Render. We do the work to make it realistic or not depending what floats your boat. :)

    I use Area light a lot and most of the time the light source is off scene and sometimes I don't want the light source to reflect in my surfaces so Ambient is not required and to doubly make sure I use the Fathom command to hide the Light source in render but still emit light.

    Post edited by Szark on
  • SertorialSertorial Posts: 960
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    3 posts up I said this

    Ambient is only required for the surface to Glow not to cast light.
    which means adding Uber Area light WILL NOT make a surface Glow but Emit light. To make the Surface GLOW (not cast light but GLOW) you NEED to have Ambient turned On. Ambient is not required for the surface to Emit and light but the illusion of light.

    And no not very realistic but were are not talking about a realistic render engine like an unbiased render engine like Octane and Lux Render. We do the work to make it realistic or not depending what floats your boat. :)

    I use Area light a lot and most of the time the light source is off scene and sometimes I don't want the light source to reflect in my surfaces so Ambient is not required and to doubly make sure I use the Fathom command to hide the Light source in render but still emit light.

    Ok. Gotcha. Thanks again for your patience. It really is hugely appreciated.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Yeah no problem. I may sound blunt but I find spelling it like that helps you better. Plus I have a habit of rambling and confusing folks. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 33,800
    edited December 1969

    ...wow, I see I still have a lot to learn.

    Haven't been able to work very much with any of the UberLight/Uber Surface features in 3Advanced or 4.5 until just recently as my old system didn't support it very well due to limited memory and processing resources.

    Being able to make objects into light emitting sources just seems so much more elegant compared to faking it like I had to in the past.

    Thank you very much for this.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    My pleasure Kyoto Kid

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Kyoto Kid said:
    ...wow, I see I still have a lot to learn.

    Haven't been able to work very much with any of the Uber/Uber Surface features in 3Advanced or 4.5 until just recently as my old system didn't support it very well due to limited memory and processing resources.

    Being able to make objects into light emitting sources just seems so much more elegant compared to faking it like I had to in the past.

    Thank you very much for this.

    KK I've seen some of the renders you've done with that MONSTER you built. If you missed it here is a fast tip for you to try with Uber Area lighting. Create a primitive plane with nice divisions and apply Area to it. You now have a very controllable Soft Mesh light for using in some renders. I think they work best for portraits but I see others using them in different ways.
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    If the light mesh is not seen try not to make too many divisions, trust me more divisions, so much more light calculations that are not required. For a plane that is not seen 4 dib=visions should work nicely. If seen then 16 upwards should do as Area lighting will show any low res mesh from the get go.

  • JaderailJaderail Posts: 0
    edited December 1969

    Szark said:
    If the light mesh is not seen try not to make too many divisions, trust me more divisions, so much more light calculations that are not required. For a plane that is not seen 4 dib=visions should work nicely. If seen then 16 upwards should do as Area lighting will show any low res mesh from the get go.
    AH, good tip Szark. No wonder my renders take so long when I use the mesh light option. TY.
  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Yep I am full of useless information, glad I could help dude.. :)

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 33,800
    edited December 1969

    ...I'm going to go back into the KK pic I did using Return to Kyoto and work with the two lanterns on the pedestals and two on the ceiling.

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    nice one, perhaps you could share the old and the new here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/20131/

  • kyoto kidkyoto kid Posts: 33,800
    edited December 1969

    ...thanks for the link. Subscribed to the thread.


    Currently performing some "consulting" duties.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 11,753
    edited December 1969

    I posted this in a PM, but thought I'd put it here, since Szark said he prefers it here. Szark, thank you for your time and answer. I seem to have a new problem now. When I open the scene, two of the Genesis characters have lost their textures and instead have a strange grey with noise and it looks, close up on one, to have UV mapping numbers. I eliminated one of the Genesis figures and replaced it with an M4, with Enzo character. The morph worked, but when I tried to apply one of the face mats, it applied a texture from the tee shirt that the other Genesis figure has on. It's really weird. :ohh: :-S I've about given up. I went to bed quite angry. This happened before I got your response, Szark. So, I'm too ambitious? Maybe I'll get rid of the other two figures and keep just the main character. It will kind of dilute the image, though. Oh, well.

    Dana

    Original Post:
    Me:
    Hi,

    I followed a thread you had going, but didn't see anything about what I'm trying to do. I have never used these lights before. I have a scene in which I hope to have an area light with a TV image on it glow, so that it is reflected on a pair of eyeglasses on my main character. Unfortunately, I' not sure where to put the image. I tried the main diffuse channel. Then I tried the ambient channel. I have one other area light, a plane, enlarged to be the ceiling in the room...not visible in the scene though. I had to make it pretty big to cover the area I wanted to cover. The TV light should also put some colored light into the scene, so it looks like a real room lit with TV glow. When I tried to render, DS went poof! Gone! Not even an error dialog. Have I tried to put too much in my scene? Did I do something wrong with the UberArea light? I have DS4.5 (not sure which version, but it's the latest I believe), Windows XP Pro 32 bit, 4 Gigs of RAM, an nVidea card with 1 Gig of on board RAM. There are three Genesis figures, with clothes, a sofa prop, coffee table prop, lamp prop (swirly lamp from ShareCG) and a screen divider (Japanese style room divider), and wall and floor prop, a couple of plates and some food props.

    I hope you have some ideas, or guidance on making the TV screen setup. Do I have to give the plane some transparency? Opaqueness is 100% I think.

    Thanks for any help you might have. I'm trying to make an entry for the Freebie Challenge.

    Dana

    Szark:
    First I would rather do this on the thread itself so other can learn from it.

    Second try putting the diffuse texture maps of the TV screen into the Light colour channel

    Third I would find anyone with 4GB of Ram to struggle with 3 Genesis figures in one scene the add some seriously high calculation light source and you are asking for trouble.

    If you have more questions please do so on the forum I am always happy to help just not like this.

    Also the Graphics Card only comes in the play when using the software but not when it comes rendering that is all CPU.

    Cheers
    Szark

  • SzarkSzark Posts: 10,633
    edited December 1969

    Dana I split of your other question to this thread here http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/21279/ due to it not being about area lighting. ;)

    IMHO 3 Genesis, textures, props and Area lighting is a little ambitous for 4 GB of RAM. Some would argure that they can do it but I never could with my old system which was only 32bit so only used 3.25 GB of RAM.

    Let us know how you get on with the TV illumination issue you have/had.

  • Mustakettu85Mustakettu85 Posts: 2,709
    edited December 1969

    That's an awesome tutorial, Szark! Thanks a lot! I haven't been using area lights extensively because I found them very tedious to control, but the trick with parented camera is ingenious!

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