January 2017 - Daz 3D New User Challenge - Composition

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  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    yhzmurphy said:

     

    This view is so much more intersting than the other. The other is too busy, while at the same time there's nothing going on.  I haven't made any comments on the other view as I don't know what to say.  This one, however, is the view I think ought to be worked on.

    Thank-you...I tend to agree with you, but at this point, I'm still splitting my time between them, as the other view is now headed in another direction and I'm learning from each path. 

  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    yhzmurphy said:

     

    Really loving this.  And that is what post work is for.  As you are learning studio, post work is for the things that you just can't fix in studio (like partially removing rigging when its not an option lol). Of course, you can use as much or as little post work as you want, but if you are focusing on doing it in Studio, don't feel guility if you have to use postwork for something like this. 

     

    The sweater fits better than the tank top for sure.  Now he looks more like a seasoned fisherman.

    Thank-you for the encouragement...so far my post work is simple comping between two renders (one with rigging, the other without) but at some point I may have to learn to do more...like knitting!  That sweater needs a lot of work...maybe he should spend more time at his fishing and less time building models!

  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    edited January 2017

    In the "perhaps too subtle to be worth the effort" department - I tried to de-flaten the sails of the schooner.  In Carrara I made them "soft", and added some "wind" to fill them out, then exported an object with them that way.  It was fun and really felt like I was making progress, but in the final render I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not.  I know about it because I did it...and now I'm telling you and biasing things.

    I'm still struggling with finding a broader "story" for this one (to Eviled777's comment)...I was thinking a window in the upper left quadrant with something outside, but that may ruin the ambiance in the room.  Or maybe I should stick to my knitting (the sweater really does need work...).  Thoughts?  Input?

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  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,643
    yhzmurphy said:

    In the "perhaps too subtle to be worth the effort" department - I tried to de-flaten the sails of the schooner.  In Carrara I made them "soft", and added some "wind" to fill them out, then exported an object with them that way.  It was fun and really felt like I was making progress, but in the final render I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not.  I know about it because I did it...and now I'm telling you and biasing things.

    I'm still struggling with finding a broader "story" for this one (to Eviled777's comment)...I was thinking a window in the upper left quadrant with something outside, but that may ruin the ambiance in the room.  Or maybe I should stick to my knitting (the sweater really does need work...).  Thoughts?  Input?

    I know it is getting close to the end of the month but when I reach this point with an image I find walking away for a day or two and/or working on something completely different helps to clear the cobwebs.  Sometimes you can spend so much time working on an image you cannot see the forest for the trees.

     

  • dstuffledstuffle Posts: 37
    edited January 2017

    I've tried to take everyone's advice (and thank you all for giving it to me), and I think my scene is stronger for it (I could, of course, be wrong).

    I moved the clock forward by 5 - 15 seconds, the shootee is now down in the dirt, the horse is now looking at the shooter (as far as its reins will let it, being tied to the hitching post and all), and the smoke is just a trickle rising from the six-shooter (not the massive rolling blast).

    Please let me know what you think about this (hopefully final) draft.

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  • evilded777evilded777 Posts: 2,240

    @dstuffle, huge improvements. I'm still not crazy about the lighting of your main character, but I can let that slide. You've done a tremendous job incorporating all the things people have commented on and the image is much stronger for it.

  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,370
    dstuffle said:

    I've tried to take everyone's advice (and thank you all for giving it to me), and I think my scene is stronger for it (I could, of course, be wrong).

    I moved the clock forward by 5 - 15 seconds, the shootee is now down in the dirt, the horse is now looking at the shooter (as far as its reins will let it, being tied to the hitching post and all), and the smoke is just a trickle rising from the six-shooter (not the massive rolling blast).

    Please let me know what you think about this (hopefully final) draft.

    Great job on implementing the suggested changes.  This looks great!

    Not sure if you know how to reduce the size on the pictures but when you load them with the little mountain picture, if you click on the little box on the left (your left) it will populate the image size.  You can change those to meet the forum guidelines.  I just change the highest number to 800 and it figures the rest out itself.

  • I did not know how to size them.  Thank you.

  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    edited January 2017
    yhzmurphy said:

     

    I know it is getting close to the end of the month but when I reach this point with an image I find walking away for a day or two and/or working on something completely different helps to clear the cobwebs.  Sometimes you can spend so much time working on an image you cannot see the forest for the trees.

     

    Not gonna lie...it's killing me pretending to walk away, but I get what you mean about the forrest and trees...;-)

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,370
    edited January 2017
    dstuffle said:

    I did not know how to size them.  Thank you.

    Most of us didn't at first lol.

    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • Is there an entries thread, where we put the final versions of the scenes, for this contest?

  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 4,163
    dstuffle said:

    Is there an entries thread, where we put the final versions of the scenes, for this contest?

    not anymore, as we changes the system from contest to challenge we will also not only be looking at "finished entries" but we will look through this thread and make our decicsions from what we see here.

  • ShortcutShortcut Posts: 68
    edited January 2017
    yhzmurphy said:

    Ok, here's an update from the inside...just more extraneous rigging removal.  I think this clears the view of the "Creator" and also solves for some hanging sheets that were attached to the now invisible sails.  I don't want to take too much of the standing rigging out, or it will look less boaty.  Thoughts?

    I prefer this one to your other one. I'm enjoying how you played with sense of scale and point of view in your image, just as scale is played with by making ships-in-a-bottle. This one asks some interesting things about the observer and the observed, about who is watching who. It's a little like holding a mirror up to a mirror and observing the repetitions, or thinking about the dreamer of a dream within a dream, and so on. Who is the artist here? The man constructing the ship-in-a-bottle? The person creating the image of a man constructing a ship-in-a-boat? Is someone looking at the image creator create, and is there yet another persepctive from which someone else is watching? How can we know what is real? Can we ever know reality without truly detaching ourselves from the scene, and when we do, will we be alarmed by learning that we are only a part of someone else's imagination?

    I like this image a lot in the kind of questions it raises for me. To me that is a successful composition. From a technical point of view, the area at left I feel is a bit too empty. My eye keeps wanting to crop it just at the mast. What if you brought that ship and bottle in the background closer? More rigging perhaps? A sail? Perhaps some more figures pointing at something or someone in the distance?

    Post edited by Shortcut on
  • FaxMisherFaxMisher Posts: 102

    I've got a wip I'm working at entering, and I'm posting the current iterations for some suggestions. My goal was to portray a member of the crew of a deep space ship, barely hanging on to the outside of the ship. With the back drop being the inky black infinite vacuum of deep space, I wanted to highlight the peril the member would be in if she were to slip or let go. 

    I kit bashed a couple of space suits, and usd the Antares as the ship, with a stardome to set the background scene. I spent most of my time on the suit, (still very basic texturing and shading), a large amount of time trying different camera shots, and another fair amount of time posing the figure to convey the gravity of the situation (no pun intended.) 

    I need help with suggestions for materials for the suit, and suggestions for lighting, as well as anything else you might spot that could be improved. 

    I've got 6 or so different shots of the scene, and I haven't yet had the time to make a selection for which shot(s) ot move forward with, so I could use some critique there as well. Thanks ahead of time!

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,370
    edited January 2017

    I've got a wip I'm working at entering, and I'm posting the current iterations for some suggestions. My goal was to portray a member of the crew of a deep space ship, barely hanging on to the outside of the ship. With the back drop being the inky black infinite vacuum of deep space, I wanted to highlight the peril the member would be in if she were to slip or let go. 

    I kit bashed a couple of space suits, and usd the Antares as the ship, with a stardome to set the background scene. I spent most of my time on the suit, (still very basic texturing and shading), a large amount of time trying different camera shots, and another fair amount of time posing the figure to convey the gravity of the situation (no pun intended.) 

    I need help with suggestions for materials for the suit, and suggestions for lighting, as well as anything else you might spot that could be improved. 

    I've got 6 or so different shots of the scene, and I haven't yet had the time to make a selection for which shot(s) ot move forward with, so I could use some critique there as well. Thanks ahead of time!

    I like this.  I think I like the perspective of the last one and the third one in that order. As far as materials go, I don't know what kind of shaders you have.  AllenArt has some beautiful shaders on sharecg.com.  Let me track down a link for you.

    Here it is

    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,643

    I've got a wip I'm working at entering, and I'm posting the current iterations for some suggestions. My goal was to portray a member of the crew of a deep space ship, barely hanging on to the outside of the ship. With the back drop being the inky black infinite vacuum of deep space, I wanted to highlight the peril the member would be in if she were to slip or let go. 

    I kit bashed a couple of space suits, and usd the Antares as the ship, with a stardome to set the background scene. I spent most of my time on the suit, (still very basic texturing and shading), a large amount of time trying different camera shots, and another fair amount of time posing the figure to convey the gravity of the situation (no pun intended.) 

    I need help with suggestions for materials for the suit, and suggestions for lighting, as well as anything else you might spot that could be improved. 

    I've got 6 or so different shots of the scene, and I haven't yet had the time to make a selection for which shot(s) ot move forward with, so I could use some critique there as well. Thanks ahead of time!

    I like the perspectives of the 2nd image and the last image.  The 5th image is also interesting.  I the long lines of the ship in the 5th and last versions.

    We do need to know which render engine you are using to offer any more specific suggestions.

  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    edited January 2017
    yhzmurphy said:
     
    Shortcut said:

    I like this image a lot in the kind of questions it raises for me. To me that is a successful composition. From a technical point of view, the area at left I feel is a bit too empty. My eye keeps wanting to crop it just at the mast. What if you brought that ship and bottle in the background closer? More rigging perhaps? A sail? Perhaps some more figures pointing at something or someone in the distance?

    Thank-you.  I've brought the other ship-in-a-bottle closer and also added a light to highlight the ship.  It certainly adds to the blank spot.  I'm still tweaking lighting and will do post-work again when I get that closer, but wanted to share the change that you suggested.

    On another note - to share yet-another-lesson-learned-the-hardway: zoomed into the bottle was really hard to make any changes, as the controls were all at their limits.  Even minor tweaks were painful entries of numbers.  So, after saving under a new scene name, I "parented" everything to a comon object and scaled that up, instead of zooming down.  It made all the difference in the world for ease of changes, and also solved some problems with things being so small/close to the camera that they didn't show up until the render.  The only problem I had/am still having is that iRay light sources all have to be brought waaaaay up in lumens due to the increased distances.  So if you're thinking of zooming way into a small space - try scaling everything else up instead!

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  • rcbcgreenpanzerrcbcgreenpanzer Posts: 73
    edited January 2017

    Got this halfway done early in the month, then forgot about it. I tried to use both color contrast and fibonacci-spiral positioning to draw the viewer's attention to the person, rather than the setting. I'm pretty sure the pose needs more work, but I'm not sure how else to improve it.

    Here is it in 3delight with the fibonacci-spiral guide visible.

    Post edited by rcbcgreenpanzer on
  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,370

    Got this halfway done early in the month, then forgot about it. I tried to use both color contrast and fibonacci-spiral positioning to draw the viewer's attention to the person, rather than the setting. I'm pretty sure the pose needs more work, but I'm not sure how else to improve it.

    Here is it in 3delight with the fibonacci-spiral guide visible.

    Maybe add something for her to look at or reach down to touch. A cat or a puppy or a butterfly, it looks like something has caught her attention because she is looking down.  Or, if she sad you could lean her forward a bit more and round her shoulders a bit and drop her head down a bit more.  Depends on what story you are telling.

  • I've got a wip I'm working at entering, and I'm posting the current iterations for some suggestions. My goal was to portray a member of the crew of a deep space ship, barely hanging on to the outside of the ship. With the back drop being the inky black infinite vacuum of deep space, I wanted to highlight the peril the member would be in if she were to slip or let go. 

    @TheFaxMisher

    It’s a great idea in terms of composition and you are already capturing that in your subject, however, we need to be able to see your subject if we are able to identify with that sense of danger you are trying to convey. In most of your shots the figure is obscured because there isn’t much light on it, and the ship seems like a dark blob without much detail to reveal what it is and it tends to dominate the scene. Of all the shots, I think hangon5 shows a lot of promise compositionally while still revealing the figure’s situation, but the figure and your ship need more light on them, or, you need to bring down the brightness in the background to balance the high contrast and let your figure become more obvious. Do you want inky black space, or bright starry space? Think about the words in your aim.

    Hangon2 is also interesting in outlining the tiny figure against the enormity of space, but I would suggest adjusting your camera to something with just a hint of the spaceship showing in the corner rather than dominating the scene as it currently does, with the outline of the figure trailing against the vast, negative space in the background. Perhaps also add some interest in the starfield with a nebula?

    You might also want to play with DOF in your camera (eg hangon5) as an option to help convey the enormity of the spaceship, keeping only the figure or part of the figure sharply in focus while the ship trails out of focus into the distance.

    Hope that gives you some more ideas in terms of camera and composition!

  • ShortcutShortcut Posts: 68
    edited January 2017

    Got this halfway done early in the month, then forgot about it. I tried to use both color contrast and fibonacci-spiral positioning to draw the viewer's attention to the person, rather than the setting. I'm pretty sure the pose needs more work, but I'm not sure how else to improve it.

     

     

    I agree with the comment already made that your figure might be leaning down to touch something that has caught her eye. I think that is quite a powerful idea in that she is surrounded by a warm and beautiful, relaxing countryside landscape, however something else, something small and curious has caught her attention which also draws our attention and curiosity away from that idyll. Alternatively, the same beautiful landscape could be juxtaposed with your figure’s sadness, inviting us to ponder on her melancholy, or is she simply tired from a long hike?

    Perhaps you could change the time of day to assist in conveying the mood of the image? Late afternoon or evening with long shadows can be more melancholy, or bright morning can seem more cheerful and promising. Perhaps you’d like to have the sun just peeping over the edge of the hill above your figure? Has it just rained and there is something catching your figure’s eye in a reflective puddle of water? Or maybe you’d like to surround her with even more colour so that she seems almost lost in flowers and nature?

    One other suggestion I’d like to make is to change the angle of the fence in your composition. Right now it is flat and lies directly across the middle of your image from one side to the other, which makes it seem static. If you angled it and had one end of the fence dwindling off into the background you can help convey the impression of depth in the landscape and create a more interesting perspective.

    Keep going with this! I'm curious how you will continue with it :-)

    Post edited by Shortcut on
  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    edited January 2017

    A bit more work on positiong the background model ship and lighting for it, and some rigging-removal-postwork.  From the thumbnail I can tell it's a noticable change in that portion of the image.  Does this help?  Too much? Too little?

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    Post edited by yhzmurphy on
  • yhzmurphy said:

    A bit more work on positiong the background model ship and lighting for it, and some rigging-removal-postwork.  From the thumbnail I can tell it's a noticable change in that portion of the image.  Does this help?  Too much? Too little?

    That’s looking better! I’d still like to see that blank space filled even more. Since you are playing with confusion of scale, maybe bring that other ship-in-a-bottle right up close to the one in the foreground so that it seems huge? Couldn’t hurt to try just to see the effect?

    As for your thoughts on scaling your objects relative to your camera that is potentially useful information for anyone trying a similar project. We learn by trying and doing!

  • just2u said:

    a humble work of mine, just trying to catch up with everyone!

    Title: Someone In Trouble

    Software: Daz 4.9 / Iray

    Sometimes showing less can say more … (see attached). Not suggesting that you should crop exactly like that, but experiment with alternative points of view that don’t necessarily ‘show everything’. Hands can be as expressive as faces with the right pose and context. The look of horror alone on the guy’s face says it all about what he might be confronting…

    If you’re going for the whole lot, then firstly female figure in your scene needs to be corrected. She is floating and her feet need to be touching the floor. Nice lighting from the window gives it a homey feel, but there is a problem in the female figure’s trousers. In portrait photography with standing poses there needs to be some separation between the legs. You’ve achieved it on him with lighting and fair skin, but her lower half is more like a shapeless dark mass. This can be done by changing the pose slightly, with one leg forward perhaps, which would also help accentuate the aggressive challenge of the female figure. As it is right now the two figures are both very strongly linear and upright and divide the scene into equal thirds. It’s very static and side-on so I would suggest adding some angles in her pose, as well as to the camera position to give it dynamic. Consider the point of view. Over his shoulder or over hers? Experiment with positioning your figures too. Perhaps he is sitting on the bed while she confronts him? By accentuating her height above and relative to his you can highlight her feelings of anger and power, or from his point of view how terrifying she is.

    Keep at it!

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  • daybirddaybird Posts: 565
    edited January 2017

    Last entry for this month. I lighten up the scene and put a few more things in her. Not sure if it's a impovement, but time runs out and I think I have put enough time in this image.

     

     

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  • yhzmurphyyhzmurphy Posts: 385
    edited January 2017

    More evolution inside the bottle.  Now that I'm not afraid of moving the camera or objects, I've changed the camera angle, and added another character to create some interaction.

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  • IceDragonArtIceDragonArt Posts: 12,370
    edited January 2017
    just2u said:

    a humble work of mine, just trying to catch up with everyone!

    Title: Someone In Trouble

    Software: Daz 4.9 / Iray

    Looks like he is in serious trouble! You did a great job on his body language as well.

    Not sure if you know how to reduce the size on the pictures but when you load them with the little mountain picture, if you click on the little box on the left (your left) it will populate the image size.  You can change those to meet the forum guidelines.  I just change the highest number to 800 and it figures the rest out itself.  This will make it easier for us to see the pictures without stretching and also easier for people on smaller devices.

    Post edited by IceDragonArt on
  • DAZ_ann0314DAZ_ann0314 Posts: 2,166

    Only one more day till the close of this challenge :) That said, since it is now a challenge and not a "contest" you can feel free to keep working on composition and talking to each othere in this thread on that topic as long as you like heart so for those of you "not done" experimenting with composition or the images you were getting feedback on, please feel free to keep going and keep working at it smiley

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