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But there's a limit to how often those companies wold try the same market sector if their previous attempts failed to work - especially if they had limited resources to spare and could make money more securely in other areas.
Many PAs do take risks, to an extent every release is a risk, but if they have burnt their fingers already with a product type they are not so likely to try again under normal circumstances.
How about some days you go into work, and they pay you less than what you expect. There isn't a within reason, when it's your income.
I am pretty sure the DAZ cut with the bulk of PA's is 50%, based on comments I have seen posted elsewhere. Maybe a few top PA's have negotiated a better deal, but I suspect those are few in number. I did look into selling some assets at some point, and I am sure 50% was the standard cut at most of the brokers. Fortunately I decided to publish mobile apps instead, where there is considerably more money to be gained. I do admire many of the PAs working to make stuff for us, as I am sure many are not that well off as a result, who can blame them for making what sells, rather than what forum posters ask for, but in reality, are poor sellers.
I'll be honest. I don't buy kids content or render them as a general rule. Whenever the kids or teens and they hit the store, my credit card usually takes a break. The only thing I buy is their hair. But only if it can be used for adults.
I think I have the baby and one set of growing up morphs and the Teen ryan bundle- because buying the bundle was cheaper to get his clothing and hair, than buying the hairs individidually.
The baby has always looked odd, and I've used the growing up morphs twice. So for me, kids content doesn't sell and I pass it by.
f you are curious about the details, SickleYield, a vendor here< has written in detail about the economics of being a vendor in DeviantArt (http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Making-A-Living-at-DAZ3D-407828896) and (http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Making-a-Living-At-DAZ3D-Part-2-The-First-Product-565231074). One thing that makes the forums deceptive is that what people request in the forums may not be representative of what the public and the bulk of Daz3d purchasers actually buy so what Daz3d buys will be reflective of what they think will sell rather than what you think will sell. Vendors here have tried that strategy, gotten burned by wasting a lot of energy and money, and believed that they learned a lesson in this.
...using nonesuch00's figure, that would then pretty much have you living in a cardboard condo under a bridge or a Soviet apratment lifestyle (with 4 - 6 flat mates) here as 1600$ a month would be gone just paying the rent.
Well SickleYield stated to make a living off the items she makes that she must sell 200 units minimum so for the sake of make 200 units workable financially I figured the average item must cost $16 and include no PC+ or other discounts.
So we all know that how shopped any in the DAZ Store the average product sold in that store is not selling for $16 unless there are a lot of professional sales to business and those are selling for that amount. In which case the 200 number works but for people like the average PC+ member they need a lot more that 200 units sold.
And $1600 after taxes and insurance is comfortable in almost every non-downtown area of the United States although certainly not luxurious such that you can just constantly shop or attend concerts and such. Although on $1600 you have to be very careful with what you spend on a car and on a home or for rent it's true.
...1,600$/mo would barely pay the rent even in the burbs around Portland (and most cities today) anymore as they are beginning to skyrocket there as well. Life is getting a lot more expensive these days nation wide, unless you don't mind living in the deep south, a small town/semi rural area (provided you can swing the expense of a car for shopping & such), or in an economically depressed area like Detroit or Milwaukee. This also supposes that such an income is "steady" with little downward fluctuation. As I have been self employed before, trust me, there will be "lean" months when stuff just doesn't sell.for whatever reason.
Also you are on the hook for all taxes (including the addition of business taxes from the federal to local level) as well as your own health coverage, and paying directly into some form of retirement be it a 401k or Social Security. Yeah if you don't mind a steady diet of macaroni with orange powder in a box, sandwiches made with sponge bread, margarine, baloney and "pasteurised process cheese food product", SunnyD, instant coffee, chicken hot dogs, SPAM, potted tuna, microwave burritos, and Top Ramen, I guess one could make it on that small an income with out a secondary job or other means of financial support. Been there myself.
...oh, and pretty much forget upgrading your system to keep up with changes in software.
Thank you, people. These are all good answers. I know I'm going to end up making this stuff. I'm beginning to feel slightly limited by the selection of certain items available, and I'm thinking, I'll have to learn to make them myself. I've learned a bit about that this week, and you've helped me learn more. Getting set up to make, for example, clothing or fiber hair, would require a certain investment. I've been wondering if one can actually recoup this investment in a reasonable amount of time, or at all. Or, would I simply think of it as therapy.
No, I don't think this skill can be learned overnight. As a young man I came up the old way, as a draftsman. After 20 years I was good at it, better than most. After 10 years I was decent at it. At 5 years I was just beginning to learn my way around. I have less than 5 years in this. CG reminds me of drafting, which was work that I enjoyed. With that in mind I am charting my future. All I have to do is to not get too much more decrepit than I am now, and I can make it happen. I need your comments to help me work out the particulars of what "it" is. They are valuable to me.
Yes, I realize the PAs are not employees. I worked half my life as a consultant. Freelancing suits me. In fact, I wouldn't have it any other way.
LOL, maybe I could teach you a thing or two about eating on a budget. My poverty stricken childhood served me well in that regard. I now live in a downtown area of a 10K people town in the mid-south aka Ohio Valley aka Appalachia and it's not cheap here either unless you look for cheap and then do DIY on your cheap property. Macaroni & Cheese and those other products are expensive extravagances on a small budget. You need to be buying lots of types of dry beans and lots of flours and vegetable oils and then you must budget for your very large bags of mixed frozen vegetables by Birdseye & Great Value if you have enough money left over (California Blend, Normandy Blend, and so on). You must cook them yourself but they are good. Meat? Forget it, it is too expensive.
I was offered a job in Portland once decades ago in the mid-90s for so much money I wondered what is going on in Portland to pay those salaries but now I know from what you are saying it must be very popular to move there. Those prices are even more than I paid when I lived in downtown big city Europe for 10 years.
...will PM on this topic later to get us back on track here.
Here is what I did back in '08 using Vicky4 and the newly released Tommi character by Thorne. First is about an 11 - 12 year old version of my Leela character, the second is the 8 year old version that took me a couple months to get right. As you can see, the shirt (from the Ms. Deanna set) crumples around the chest area. Oh to have Autofit or even the Morph Follower in those days (both done in Daz 2.3).
Well, after reading The Kids 4 Pro Bundle was on sale for $4 and change I bought that, the only thing that makes them toon like is their eyes are too big.
...that can be remedied. just by a bit of careful resizing I did that with Josie 7 to make my characters look a little more "normal" Really should think about getting Teen Princess Leila as she doesn't have those big pouty lips like most Gen 3 figures do as well as she has a more delicate face structure.
One issue I have run into with G3F that wasn't present with G2F is I am getting bad distortion around the aureola region similarto what I experienced with V4 when sizing the breasts down past a certain point which can mess with clothing fits as most clothing still has that "shrink wrap" look. There is also something that bothers me about how the pectorals are shaped and the fact that they have no shaping morphs which seems to contribute to another type of distortion around the edges of the breast when reduced even with the Growing Up or Natural Breast Shapes morphs. Again this can translate to the fits of some clothing.
Over at Renderosity Alive She Cried and SF Design have a sizeable number of G3 child shapes. There is a fair variety of ages. Mar3D has Little Dewey and DTHUREGRIF has Dottie. Both are complete with textures. Gaodan makes clothing that look good on kids. I am most likely forgetting others.
All of the shapes you are refering to are just presets, not morphs, they only do what anyone could do by spinning a few dials.
OK then. I've reread this thread. The Growing Up kids have been mentioned a number of times. One comment said they didn't look realistic enough. I find this to be an unusual remark to be made in a place where "what sells" is an 18 year old girl with a 44DDDD chest. That said, "realism" is highly overrated.
My original question about clothes was directed at fit, not style and fashion. Certainly we are missing beanies with propellers on the top. Now, I am wondering to what degree Autofit is able to adapt to a 16YO figure size. I assumed it could not. Now I am thinking I may have been wrong. If Autofit can do the job, then there are plenty of clothes. And the price of Growing Up is affordable. We have ample supplies of hooded sweatshirts, expensive sneakers and cell phones. Since I live near a school, I can keep an eye on what they wear.
Of course, Visuimag's little children are excellent. I can't help but wonder how they were created.
FWIW, Taoism suggested that the roles of artist and merchant are somewhat antithetical. From what I've seen, there is something to this. Every artist I've known who asks, "What do people want?" becomes less of an artist. If you are thinking "Do you expect me to starve to death?!" the answer is no. But there is a middle ground.
FWIW - attached is a very rough render of G3F with M4's Urbane outfit (designed for H4) and Growing Up Youth Morph at 75% , and V4's Adventure Girl (Designed with Girl 4 in mind) and Growing Up Youth Morph at 50%. Used Wear Them All to transfer the clothes.
The only thing that gave me trouble was the Pauldrons for Adventure Girl (but that kind of thing is notorious for not refitting well) - so I left them out. I think I could make them work with some effort.
Actually, I just checked ASC's store and all her "Friends of" line is gone for some reason... D:
Well, they look pretty good. I've noticed Wear Them All, but I haven't tried it. I'm not very good at fitting yet. The whole subject of morphs is uncharted territory to me. But it does seem that both kids and clothes are available. I'll be experimenting with these in the near future. I expect some surprises when I try animating these fitted clothes.
There are many rabbit holes in this pursuit. Right now I'm doing what painting instructors call "broad brush." I'm covering as much ground as possible without getting caught up in details that I can come back to later.
Thanks.
For the most part they'll animate fine. Depending on the original mesh, you may find some odd distortions in some areas. In still renders, you can work around that with adjustment morphs / d-formers. Slightly more tricky in animations (that's when you arrange for something to cover that area for those frames ;) )
Yes. I am learning that we don't need to see everything all the time. Feet are a good example. This is a time-honored tradition, too. Greta Garbo liked to wear her ratty old house slippers when she was filming. Richard Burton thought that red socks were good luck. You will never see these people's feet in any movies.
Rottenham, I like your attitude! This is not only the attitude that creates a new generation of artists, it's the same attitute that makes successful businesses. There comes a time when you have to discard what the common opinion is and just do it. As the saying goes, " if you want want the average person has, then do what the average person is doing."
How well autofit works varies from item to item, with shirts and dresses being the most likely to have problems. I did testing on some girls dialed in to 5-6 year old with Growing Up. Abigail outfit for teen Josie has some significant problems, but Time for School and Victorian Santa both looked very good. For younger girls, male shirts may work better than female ones. If you buy an outfit for use on kids and it doesn't work, you can return it for a refund.
If I'm not mistaken it was Robert Heinlein who said, "First, find out what direction everybody is going. Then go the other way."
Without this forum, I would be working in a total vacuum. Thanks to all who have replied.
Yes. Overall I sometimes see fit issues with things that are supposedly built to fit to begin with. Fiddling seems to be a fact of life. I am aware of the DAZ return policy, which I find quite accomodating.
I recently watched a lengthy tutorial for Marvelous Designer. It certainly looks like "the right tool for the right job." I observed that this tool is commonly used in high-end 3D animation. It makes me wonder.
What if you were part of a crew of professional CG artists making Avatar, or Narnia, or whatever. You are making the critters, and someone else is making the clothes for them. You must add the clothes to the figure, then animate it. Just how much poke-through would you expect to see? None at all? Almost none? An ongoing problem? Do we see the fit problems we see here because each PA has their own ways of doing things, with few restrictions? Or does poke-through simply come with the territory, and no amount of expensive tools, professional training and clearly documented design standards can alter this? I really have no basis of comparison. I can only guess.
I ask this having watched Narnia (again) this week. 5,000 figures, all running across the field at high speed. No poke-through. No foot sliding. It blows me away to see this. I visualize a building full of computers working non-stop to render one second. It is the kind of quality we have come to take for granted in the interactive videos we call "games." It's hard to "hide the feet" when the user has full control over the next scene, wouldn't you think?
I'm asking myself if I developed an intimate knowledge of morphing, then learned to use MD in a competent way, would I still struggle with the fit of a shirt? I don't know the answer.
With regard to animated movies, the clothing items are generally made to be specific to a particular character model, so they can take the time needed to fit it so it flows realistically. Here, the time needed to provide enough fits for the wide variety of body shapes is the main reason you encounter poke-through, not to mention that the PA making the clothes would have to buy every character as it was released and update their existing products to work with it.
So be it. It ought to be possible to "edit" clothes that, for one reason or another, don't fit properly. What would it take to do this? Say you wanted to add some morphs to an existing jacket. Have you ever had occasion to do this? Without going into detail, how would you go about it?
............................
OK, I figured it out. ZBrush.
Between zBrush for the shape modifications and the builtin Node Weight Map brush, you should easily be able to correct any issues with garment fit on younger characters.
Node Weight Brush, eh? That's what I wanted to know. I'll be looking into that shortly. Thanks.