Nov. 2016 New User 3D Art Contest - Materials (WIP thread)

Scott LivingstonScott Livingston Posts: 4,269

New User Contest - November 2016 (WIP thread)

 

Sponsored by DAZ 3D

 

Are you new to the 3D World? Are you at the beginning stages of learning 3D rendering? Have you been around for a little bit but feel you could benefit from some feedback or instruction? Have you been around awhile and would like to help other members start their creative journey? Well then come and join the fun as we host our newest contest...

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"Materials and Surfaces"

 

This month, our attention will be on Materials and Surfaces. One of the most important aspects of a great render is the effective use of materials or shaders. How the artist has controlled subsurface scatteringspecularitydisplacement and such can add realism, style, and visual interest to an image. This month we will be concentrating on how to create and manipulate the surfaces on the object in our scene.

I will be checking in on the WIP thread as will the rest of the Community Volunteers to try and help with anything you all may need, so feel free to ask questions.

More info that will help with this months contest can be found at the links below. I recommend that you start with the information under the Material/Surfaces Basics section (even if you've had a little experience with this already, these articles can help you to fully comprehend things that you already "sort of" know). Then, move on to the links under the section corresponding to the specific software or render engine you wish to use.

Material/Surfaces Basics

Surface Basics (PDF)

Difference between materials and shaders?

Here are various links to other things that may help you in this months contest. Credit is given to Szark for this wonderful thread.
Tutorials by Szark 

You can also find information, tutorials, and examples in past new user contests:

April 2013 - Surfaces, Materials, and Shaders
October 2013 - Shaders
November 2013 - Texturing and Shaders
November 2015 - Materials

(More basic information about materials can be found in the links appearing in the paragraphs above)

DAZ Studio - 3Delight and General

UberSurface Tutorial, Part 1  - Understanding UberSurface (PDF)

UberSurface Tutorial, Part 2 - Using UberSurface (PDF)

Articles and Tutorials from DS Creative Magazine:
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_01 Understanding Displacement, Bump and Normal Maps by Totte Alm - Page 42 DS Creative Magazine Issue 1
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_02 Displacement, Bump and Normal Maps Part 2 by Totte Alm - Page 60 DS Creative Magazine Issue 2
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_04 Recolouring Content by Camilla Drakenborg - Page 44 DS Creative Magazine Issue 4
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_05 Creating a Mapless Shader by Szark - Page 32 DS Creative Magazine Issue 5
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_05 Making Mirrors by Phil Thompson - Page 38 DS Creative Magazine Issue 5
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_07 Plants from Textures - Page 52 DS Creative Magazine Issue 7
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_14 Making Holes by Lucinda Atman - Page 21 DS Creative Magazine Issue 14
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_14 Geometry Editor by Totte Alm - Page 36 DS Creative Magazine Issue 14

DAZ 3D - Introduction to Shader Mixer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAxDWbbo85U
UberSurface2 Introduction Tutorial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wti6MawSLAA

​Geometry Shell Grunge Map Tutorial http://www.daz3d.com/forums/uploads/FileUpload/24/04f39864b428cbaff809b13d937b6a.pdf

DAZ Studio - Iray

http://thinkdrawart.com/water-shader-tutorial-for-daz-studio-iray
http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Iray-Surfaces-And-What-They-Mean-519346747
http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Mini-Tutorial-Iray-Progressive-Render-Settings-557481988
http://sickleyield.deviantart.com/journal/Tutorial-Getting-Started-With-Iray-519725115
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_10 New Horizons - Page 23 DS Creative Magazine Issue 10 - Iray Introductory Tutorial
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_12 Gemstones in Iray - Page 22 DS Creative Magazine Issue 12
http://issuu.com/philatdsc/docs/ds_creative_13 Iray for Beginners - Page 46 DS Creative Magazine Issue 13

 

Poser

POSER Tutorial Lesson 4: Materials
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcVCI6CNz-4
Poser - Material Room 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ZDrBtxrZQ
Poser - Material Room 102: Reflections
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BBoUlh6QSQ
Poser - Material Room 103: Transparency
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXwmpYbuk38
Poser - Material Room 201: The Advanced Room & Root Node
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbazSTiYOeA
Poser - Material Room 204: Scatter and Custom Scatter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4c1y8uwwMA

Carrara

Carrara Cafe - shaders http://carraracafe.com/tag/shaders/

Terrain Shading Tips https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ236C6vu-g&list=PL7Fcs8awDd0JjtCKC4pS1jeHSo_BopKsk&index=23:

Building Better Bricks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLcZIjbTtz8

Natural Shaders https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wxLtVQMUAM

Carrara Information http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/15970/carrara-information-manual#latest

Bryce

Bryce: Bryce Texture & Material Effects Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awwMgKYfXg8
Bryce 7 In Depth Metal Material Tutorial
https://vimeo.com/20300389

Bryce Mat Room (PDF) https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B19JhjigT8XbWDAxTGRpZnZpNDg/view?usp=sharing

 

Contest Rules 

Full contest rules: http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/3440/

This is the WIP (work in progress) thread. When working on your submissions, if you would like to get feedback as you work or before posting your final image, please post your image to this thread. People will be popping in to the WIP thread to give you some critique and advice on your entry and help along the way.

Please keep all comments on entries in the WIP thread as well, because comments or requests for help/feedback/advice will be removed from the contest entry thread and merged into the WIP thread. When you have finished your artwork and are ready to enter, please post the final version to the ENTRIES THREAD.

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For those veterans of the forums that would like to help, because this contest is designed for the beginner to learn from, we will be selecting a winner from posts offering helpful tips and/or critiques to receive a special coupon as well--so, whether you are a seasoned artist or an aspiring one, there is fun for everyone!

Closing Date: November 30, 2016

Post edited by DAZ_ann0314 on
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Comments

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 2,886

    This is going to be a very interesting month I am going to entering this months I am sure already have some ideas floating around my head already!!devil

  • Oh I really like to play with textures!  I don't know if I am any good at it but I am really looking forward to learning more!

  • I used Stonemasion's Darkstar for this, using verious Iray shaders that I have on almost every surface we see. There are two that I know of that I missed. I'll go back and change that if I find some presets amungst my selection to replace them. Also for fans of Cheetah look closely in the hallway.

     

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 6,272

    OK - can't wait to get started with Daz Studio. Will need lots of help!  I am off to the tutorial links above.  Regarding 3delight and Iray, is there a logical progression (should I be trying to learn one before the other), or are they distinct and separable?  Asking in order to identify which links I should be visiting first.

  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 2,122
    diomede said:

    OK - can't wait to get started with Daz Studio. Will need lots of help!  I am off to the tutorial links above.  Regarding 3delight and Iray, is there a logical progression (should I be trying to learn one before the other), or are they distinct and separable?  Asking in order to identify which links I should be visiting first.

    That depends. Do you want to create images that follow a more realistic model of lighting and shaders (iray) or are you more interested in playing around in a world where lighting and shaders are less predictable and control is is your hands (3Delight). I see the iray render process as being a bit more controled in the begining. Not saying that you can't go off the deep end but that iray has an assumption that you want to start in the real world and go from there. Learning to use 3Delight this pre-disposition is not there and that realistic is just one path you can follow when setting up your scene's lighting and shader choices. I started with 3Delight and learned how shaders work with this engine. I find that iray lighting and shaders are a bit easier to use because you don't have to play so much to get good results. That said mastering 3Delight can produce such amazing looks, from realistic to out-of-this world.

    What you do need to do is to understand shaders and how they function in paticular lighting. This is applicable to both iray and 3Delight. Their structure is different, i.e. the equations are not the same, but the concept of what is a shader is identical. Once you understand what the various parameters do,  for the renderer you have chosen, your experience with using the shaders will be more satisfying.

    So first, find documentation that tells you what a shader is, second, find documentation that describes what the parameters of a shader are, thirdly, play with the parameters. I tend to push a parameter to the low and high ends, doing renders respectively to see what the renderer is doing. So you chose what renderer you want to work with and then study its structure. When you are ready you can go to the other renderer and you will have that basic understanding and termanology in your back pocket and you won't have to start on the first rung.

  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 6,272

    @DollyGirl   Perfect answer.  Thanks.  I guess I will be starting with 3Delight for some fanciful fun.  After I learn the Studio basics, and understand the interface and tools better, I might try my hand at photo-realism from time to time.  I have finished the tutorials in the Materials/Basics list.  This topic is good timing.  I picked up some materials and shader products during the Published Artists sale.  It would probably help me to be able to "look under the hood" of these products and see how they are put together.

  • diomede said:

    OK - can't wait to get started with Daz Studio. Will need lots of help!  I am off to the tutorial links above.  Regarding 3delight and Iray, is there a logical progression (should I be trying to learn one before the other), or are they distinct and separable?  Asking in order to identify which links I should be visiting first.

    I love Iray and I find it easier to use since it expects those real world lighting similar to what photographers actually use.  However, some people don't 'get' it and find 3DL easier.  If I enter the NU contest now, I generally do so in 3DL because I don't consider myself a newbie with Iray anymore and 3DL is a totally different animal when it comes to lighting.  Even some surface stuff is different between the two.  

    My best advice is to set up a simple scene and save it with all 3DL materials, for example PumpkinSet3DL01. (I always save incremental files when making changes.)  Then set up your lighting and render it to see what you've got.  After that, hit all surfaces with Iray Uber Shader to convert to Iray.  Change your lighting to photometric and your render engine to nVidia and save that as a scene noting that it's and Iray version, for example PumpkinSetIray01.  Render that and see which one you like better and which seems more intuitive to what you are accustomed to in Carrara.  Whichever one looks better is the one, I would work with first.  I haven't played with lighting in Carrara yet so I'm not sure which lighting will be more intuitive for you when compared to Carrara.  I'm sure they are totally different, but there might be a similar workflow that speaks to you more in one render engine than another.

    I hope that makes sense.  I'm not sure I'm explaining it well. :)

  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 2,122

    I used Stonemasion's Darkstar for this, using verious Iray shaders that I have on almost every surface we see. There are two that I know of that I missed. I'll go back and change that if I find some presets amungst my selection to replace them. Also for fans of Cheetah look closely in the hallway.

     

    Shinji, since you chose to make the walls of the tunnel natural rock I would suggest you bump up the bump or add just a bit of displacement. I say this because there is a bit of stretch going on with the edges of the support columns. You can also try and adjust the tiling as another option. I would also add some more ambient red light in the tunnel. There are lots of red light sources but they are not casting light very far. If you are using UberArea lights then adjust the fall off range. Szark has a nice tutorial http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/.

    If you are playing with iRay then you will need to bump up just a little like 0.005 the environment intensity. I like AndyGrimm's technique you can read it here:http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/58920/iray-moon/p1

    Hope to see your kitty much better!

  • I started with 3Delight and then learned Iray.  Both are useful but 3Delight gives a lot more control. And once you grasp the basics of one, its a bit easier to learn the other I think.

  • I started with 3Delight back in Daz 3.1. I didn't know about Iray when they were developing it until it started shoing up in the beginer contests. Once I changed over I haven't gone back.

  • SaphirewildSaphirewild Posts: 2,886

    I am quite partial to 3Delight right now as it easier on my laptop (Which has low memory) and also I like the control I have over the scene with things like lighting and shaders etc....

  • DollyGirl said:

    I used Stonemasion's Darkstar for this, using verious Iray shaders that I have on almost every surface we see. There are two that I know of that I missed. I'll go back and change that if I find some presets amungst my selection to replace them. Also for fans of Cheetah look closely in the hallway.

     

    Shinji, since you chose to make the walls of the tunnel natural rock I would suggest you bump up the bump or add just a bit of displacement. I say this because there is a bit of stretch going on with the edges of the support columns. You can also try and adjust the tiling as another option. I would also add some more ambient red light in the tunnel. There are lots of red light sources but they are not casting light very far. If you are using UberArea lights then adjust the fall off range. Szark has a nice tutorial http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/14536/.

    If you are playing with iRay then you will need to bump up just a little like 0.005 the environment intensity. I like AndyGrimm's technique you can read it here:http://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/58920/iray-moon/p1

    Hope to see your kitty much better!

    Irayed the surfaces I missed, bumped up the luminance on the side lights in the hallway and tried to tweek the rough concrete I used on the walls. I might just change that later though.

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  • DollyGirlDollyGirl Posts: 2,122
    edited November 2016

    Irayed the surfaces I missed, bumped up the luminance on the side lights in the hallway and tried to tweek the rough concrete I used on the walls. I might just change that later though.

    Much better lighting affect. So I have circled what for me would be a problem area. You could fiddle with the tiling off-set to maybe make the line between the two areas blend better but I think I would just go in and assign those faces to the same group as the side of the column that is facing us. I would do that because 1) it gets rid of the line and 2) maybe that stretch I am seeing will go away. I like the roughness I see on the walls and I like that you have changed a high tech prop into something more organic. I think I would also see if I could get a rim light around kitty. Make her stand out more and seperate her from the scenery. I think that would help draw the eye more towards her and away from those cool red lights in the tunnel.

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    Post edited by DollyGirl on
  • What does WIP mean?

  • What does WIP mean?

    Work in Progress

  • DollyGirl said:

    Irayed the surfaces I missed, bumped up the luminance on the side lights in the hallway and tried to tweek the rough concrete I used on the walls. I might just change that later though.

    Much better lighting affect. So I have circled what for me would be a problem area. You could fiddle with the tiling off-set to maybe make the line between the two areas blend better but I think I would just go in and assign those faces to the same group as the side of the column that is facing us. I would do that because 1) it gets rid of the line and 2) maybe that stretch I am seeing will go away. I like the roughness I see on the walls and I like that you have changed a high tech prop into something more organic. I think I would also see if I could get a rim light around kitty. Make her stand out more and seperate her from the scenery. I think that would help draw the eye more towards her and away from those cool red lights in the tunnel.

    Adjusted the tiling on the concrete, and added some fire in the hallway to backlight cheetah

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  • Kismet2012Kismet2012 Posts: 3,226

    You have recevied some great advice from DollyGirl.  The tiling adjustments look much better but I am not sure the fire is helping this particular image. 

    It is something you have used in images the last few months.  Perhaps it is time to try something different?

     

    Maybe someone could be coming around the corner out of sight at the back of the hallway but they have a light source, flashlight perhaps, that could help illuminate Cheetah Girl.

    I am happy to see her again.  She is a great character.

  • rcbcgreenpanzerrcbcgreenpanzer Posts: 45
    edited November 2016

    This is going to be a good month! I've never really known where to get started with texturing, and right here's a bunch of informative-looking links!

     

    @Shinji Ikari 9th: While it looks more like concrete now, I prefer the old wall (except for the seam!) as it is less obviously tiled and looks like it was hewn from bare rock. Fix some issues, and it sings a story of fighting through an asteroid/lunar base... The new one seems busy, but in a repetitive, tiled way. If you fix it's issues, it'll mumble a story about maybe being a military installation, or maybe being a utility space.

    Also, the fire seems problematic. TL~DR: It breaks immersion. First, the physics side. That's a big flamefront. It wouldn't be shaped like that unless it was travelling along the tunnel, and that has implications that I doubt you are going for, given this character's prevalence in your renders. Simply, she's going to get cooked.

    Second, the textures/materials. If you're going to have a fire, you should blacken the walls near it and shut off the lights behind it. Seriously, LEDs are fragile when it comes to temperature swings. Futuristic even-more-efficient will probably be even more so. The quartered circle shining though the flames gives them an ethereal, unphysical aspect.

    Lightingwise, I'd recommend going back to your second picture and tweaking the film settings to show a bit more with the existing amounts of light, rather than just ramping up the lights' output. It's a tricky balance to light a scene enough to make it parsable, while keeping the (cozy, secure, hidden) feeling from a dark spot.

    Post edited by rcbcgreenpanzer on
  • Ditched the fire, added a companion coming up behind cheetah, tweeked the tiling on the concrete, and changed the shutter speed.

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  • kanegskanegs Posts: 80

    Almost every scene I render I make some material changes.

    Is the below image within the scope of this contest? Or are these changes too subtle?
    (If you want to see what I started with, here's the product page for The Pit)

    It still needs a lot more work done. I just want to be sure that I in the right neighborhood... 

    the_pit.png
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  • dracorndracorn Posts: 1,603
    edited November 2016

    Ditched the fire, added a companion coming up behind cheetah, tweaked the tiling on the concrete, and changed the shutter speed.

    Hi Shinji Ikari 9th -

    Removing the fire does look better.  We don't want Cheetah Girl getting cooked. 

    I like the reflection on the floor, that's a nice touch.  Are her ears posable?  If they are, tiling them back would add to her emotional tension/concentration.  Good pose.

    Lighting has always been the most time consuming for me.  I do dozens of test renders before I have something I like.

    I'm thinking you can bring up the lighting a little, because it's still a little hard to see Cheetah and her companion.  You could increase the emissive lighting - it looks good on her right boot.  If you can create the same red rim on her right side, that would add both illumination and drama.  To bring up the overall light, you can try bouncing a spotlight off a plane in front of her - I've seen wonderful soft lighting effects done that way.  You may also want to try to add a light in the tunnel that isn't red.  Another lighting idea would be to introduce a contrasting color on Cheetah coming from the outside of the tunnel.  The colors of the scene are primarily red, blue and purple.  Adding some green to contrast the red would provide visual interest and drama.  Yellow or orange would also be good colors and would really stand out in this scene, especially if you change the door light to yellow.  Experiment to see what you like. 

    The companion is hard to see - but that may not necessarily be a bad thing since we are focusing on Cheetah.  This may be an optical illusion, but it looks like his weapon is aimed at his back. 

     

    Post edited by dracorn on
  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 6,272

    Warning!  Don't look!  Special category of awful attached.  LOL. 

     

    I am having all sorts of adjustment problems trying to do even the simplest things.  My two biggest problems right now are that when I try to select something in my scene, I end up selecting the entire woodland realms set, instead of the objects or figures I am trying to manipulate.  Is there a way to turn off a prop or figure so that it can't be selected until turned back on?  My second immediate issue is that the wine glass props have two shading domains. one for the glass and one for the wine in the glass.  When I have the glass prop selected, and open the surfaces pane, I can either be under the editor tab or the presets tab.  I want to apply a preset named "glass" to the prop's material zone for the glass polygons.  If I am under the presets tab of the surfaces pane, I can't find the mat zones to select, and if I am under the editor tab, I can't figure out how to apply the glass preset.

     

    All sorts of other problems with the lights (just default right now so looks like ambient is way up), and people looking the wrong way, and props intersecting each other - but I think my immediate needs are how to select things inside a set and how to apply a preset to just one domain of a prop. 

     

    Note - should I be asking these sorts of How To questions in the main "new users" forum?  I'll understand if this forum is really meant to be about fine tuning an image, not Daz functions.

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  • kanegskanegs Posts: 80
    diomede said:

    Is there a way to turn off a prop or figure so that it can't be selected until turned back on? 

    If you look at the scene panel, to the left of each item there is an eye and an arrow. The arrow has a little check next to it. If you click it, it will turn into an x and will be un-selectable.

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  • DiomedeDiomede Posts: 6,272

    @kanegs - Thank you.  I thought it might be something simple. 

  • soc_stigsoc_stig Posts: 94
    edited November 2016

    Like Kanegs (above), I usually tweak just about every surface to some degree, so I'm not sure how far the contest expects to go with that. Something I've started on (grainy because i had to cut the render time short) ...

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    Post edited by soc_stig on
  • dracorn said:

    Ditched the fire, added a companion coming up behind cheetah, tweaked the tiling on the concrete, and changed the shutter speed.

    Hi Shinji Ikari 9th -

    Removing the fire does look better.  We don't want Cheetah Girl getting cooked. 

    I like the reflection on the floor, that's a nice touch.  Are her ears posable?  If they are, tiling them back would add to her emotional tension/concentration.  Good pose.

    Lighting has always been the most time consuming for me.  I do dozens of test renders before I have something I like.

    I'm thinking you can bring up the lighting a little, because it's still a little hard to see Cheetah and her companion.  You could increase the emissive lighting - it looks good on her right boot.  If you can create the same red rim on her right side, that would add both illumination and drama.  To bring up the overall light, you can try bouncing a spotlight off a plane in front of her - I've seen wonderful soft lighting effects done that way.  You may also want to try to add a light in the tunnel that isn't red.  Another lighting idea would be to introduce a contrasting color on Cheetah coming from the outside of the tunnel.  The colors of the scene are primarily red, blue and purple.  Adding some green to contrast the red would provide visual interest and drama.  Yellow or orange would also be good colors and would really stand out in this scene, especially if you change the door light to yellow.  Experiment to see what you like. 

    The companion is hard to see - but that may not necessarily be a bad thing since we are focusing on Cheetah.  This may be an optical illusion, but it looks like his weapon is aimed at his back. 

     

    Here we go with version e. I'd try to recall what changes I made last night but I have to getting ready for work. (Hate it when I wake up with less then an hour before I have to leave for the bus, but the wind last night was keeping me awake like the two nights before last.)

    nov2016e.png
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  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 2,969

    @Kanegs amd @soc_stig , I believe you are both on the safe side, altering a texture or changing it completely, the aim is to get a grip on what happens to surfaces when I change this or that and what makes it look exaclty the way I want it instead of just taking it the way out of the box. Given this is the ultimate opportunity to take some old prop and give a new sight to it. Take a look into subsurface and ubersurface, glossy, reflective and translucent.
     

  • daybirddaybird Posts: 355

    So this is my first trial with a free texture as skin for the dryad. I have also use the bump and refraction lever, to make her skin look rough.

    I'm not so pleased with the light at this point. My biggest problem is the point light, that i have placed in the camp fire. I set the intensity to 200% but it's nearly not visible.

    Puhh, I hope my english is not to hard to read and I do not confuse the reader with it.

    Wrong Tree for the camp fire wood..jpg
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  • daybird said:

    So this is my first trial with a free texture as skin for the dryad. I have also use the bump and refraction lever, to make her skin look rough.

    I'm not so pleased with the light at this point. My biggest problem is the point light, that i have placed in the camp fire. I set the intensity to 200% but it's nearly not visible.

    Puhh, I hope my english is not to hard to read and I do not confuse the reader with it.

    Are you using 3Delight or Iray to render with? 

     

  • Hi everyone. I stopped the render 3.5 hours in on this image, so it's not quite complete. I'm using Reality 4 on a 2015 Macbook pro with 16G of memory, an SSD, a 2.5 GHz i7, and an AMD Radeon R9 370x with 2 gigs of memory to render. The cat, the chair, and the wall paper all have SSS on them - although I don't really know how to select the right SSS for a surface yet. 

    I've been using Daz for about 3 months now, and I find I really like scene construction and morphing and posing figures - but I'm really strugglng with learning about textures, materials, and shaders. I'm hoping to create content for Daz in the future, so in order to have saleable products, I know I need to work on modifying and creating surfaces. I've been learning on my own, watching and reading tutorials, but I know I need some real human feedback. So here's my WIP for the materials contest.

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