Products inspired by existing franchises
SnowSultan
Posts: 3,830
I recently purchased two clothing items that I discovered later were likely based (fairly closely) on those from existing game and anime characters. While I certainly don't have a problem with this in general, and there will always be a demand for such products in order to help artists recreate their favorite characters, I would really appreciate it if the content creator could mention on the product page, without the need to be specific, that the product may have been inspired by an existing design. There are times that I do not want to (and in some cases, cannot) use anything that too closely resembles any recognizable character or their elements.
Thanks very much.
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Comments
it's annoying and one often has to be quick reading the forum too, to find out
It's one reason I'm disappointed to have seen the editorial licences retired from further use; they were a useful flag of "this is based on some media franchise you don't recognise, your characters will be performing an unintentional cosplay in this outfit".
Agreed. I hate finding out something I bought is part of some franchise I've never heard of.
I concur.
I don't play computer games, pay for franchise TV or go to movies even. I do buy ebooks so I am still able to read, and my imagination triggers my purchases at DAZ. But I have no idea what might get me in trouble with the big corporations. But I also do not upload my renders very often.
I don't see how any franchise or movie/anime studio can claim copyuright on cothing items, unless it's obviously a branded item. I don't see any issues.
Yes, I thought that was a good idea too, although I guess I can imagine that some users would simply ignore the license and use the products in commercial works. Artists who take commissions do it all the time anyway and I'm sure they never think of paying the character's original creator a portion of their fee. :)
My issue isn't about legality, it's about assembling what I think is an original outfit for a character and then having someone comment and say "hey, she looks good in that Zenless Zone Zero top". Also, try using an Iron Man suit in commercial work, you'll be able to hold your breath longer than it will take for an email from Disney to arrive.
You can actually copyright and/or trademark a component of a character's identity (like a costume, an accessory, a vehicle...), if it's unique and distinctive enough to be easily identifiable as associated to the character or intellectual property it's from. The laws depend on the country, of course, but for example the US, EU and Japan have rules regarding the protection of fictional characters that would cover that.
unless it is from the golden age versions which are copy right free and public domain which Mighty Mite has created a lot of content for plus the parts pieces are like standard fantasy addons really oh and Disney and others lost the rights to a lot of older content character versions of their stuff that is now public domain which have been used in a lot of horror movies and other stuff
Regarding mobile game IPs, all I can say is that you can always find a hundred characters and outfits that look very similar...
Once again, this is not about what may be legal to use, whether it's public domain, or whether it's likely that anything you find here has something similar in some mobile game. It's that potential customers should know whether a product's design is based on an existing property before they buy it and assume that it is a largely, if not completely original design. That should not even be a recommendation, it should be a requirement when a store is selling products for commercial use. Being inspired by an existing property doesn't mean I won't still buy it, but it means I will know when to use it.
It is a tricky problem though. If you design a dragon, chances are it is based on something in folklore. For example, there is https://www.daz3d.com/hh-wyvern. If you were going to tell me that the creator hadn't seen Game of Thrones, I would call you a liar. George R. R.R. Martin has popularized that all dragons have four limbs instead of six so any artist who uses it is going to cakll back to GRRM and GOT. Wyverns have existed in popular culture for a couple of thousand years but, except for the 1981 Dragonsayer movie, they don't appear in popular culture. It would be silly if Daz3d created a pioneer girl, Daphne 9 who is a pioneer girl, and customers complained that they were told it reminded them too much of Little House on the Prairie and American Girl dolls who own all concept of a "pioneer girl". I think it is incumbent on the purchasing artist to do research if their creation resembles something that other artists have put out in the world. This is how it works in the real world. If you make a movie, it is your job to see if it resembles someone else's movie or I.P.
There's a big difference between "pioneer girl" and "That's R2-D2, but green." If the PA is trying to make a look-a-like, they should say so. And the way that used to work was the editorial license. That allowed them to not have to specifically say "Hey I'm paying homage to this specific IP."
This is exactly why it is up to the creator to be transparent about their inspirations, not for the customer to be expected to know of every possible IP. I asked an AI to check my own creations to make sure I was not accidentally copying any existing properties and even it said that it cannot be certain if anything matches any obscure anime or game designs. If an AI can't be sure, what chance do any of us have?
Right, and that applies to the dragon example too. It's surely possible to make a four-limbed dragon without it looking exactly like one from Game of Thrones. Hide color, horns, body shape, wing shape, etc could all be adjusted enough. A toony figure could have exaggerated biceps and fists, but if he's not a sailor, the first reaction won't be that he's just a Popeye clone. I am becoming slightly reluctant to buy clothing items here - especially sci-fi or fantasy ones - after the removal of the editorial license tag.
The Game of Thrones dragons always have two legs and two wing/arms since Martin is resolute that dragons, like birds and bats, have four limbs exactly. It has been so stereotyped that, even though Wyvrens have been used in art for millenia, they are associated with Game of Thrones. So if an artist made a dragon with four limbs, i would assume they saw Game of Thrones. My sister works for a major biopharmaceutical company. They spend a great deal of money to make sure that their drug names are their's alone. Hence you get drugs like Woopsydasica Hemisphere or Zeeleprin. It is the job of the drug company to find the name. Artists and customers are the equivalent of the drug company. It is incumbent on the artist to understand the current world even if your art is in rebellion of it as art is always about context. I would argue that https://www.daz3d.com/scifi-western-droid is as much R2D2 as a green R2D2 as i recognize its general shape. I think there are way too many artists from ChanglingChick to Kooki99 to Phoenix1966 to Daz3d's own Originals who i buy because they do look like recognizable people. It is difficult to gauge someone else's cultural ignorance. I don't think AI is a way to determine the IP because you actually need someone who enjoys the genre to understand the nuances and AI works differently than that.
I wanted to attach a picture of R2D2 but I don't have one I took myself. A long time ago, my brother and i went on a tour of Industrial Light And Magic from the the ILM Director of Cinematography. There were so many R2's there inside the building,
I disagree with virtually everything you said there, but thank you for your opinion. :) Nice photo too, that was probably quite an interesting trip.
I do want to say I understand your frustration. I know people who are writers and have to do so much research into so much so that they can have their characters use the right slang or eat the right food etc... it sounds exhausting.
This discussion reminds me of a conversation I had about Raiders of the Lost Ark. A defunct magazine called it the first postmodern movie because almost every scene references a scene from an older movie. I remember laughing at the opening scene of stealing a South American good idol and flying away in a seaplane while wearing a fedora, khaki pants, bullwhip because it was a recreation of Charleton Heston in Secret of the Incas (google it and you can see how identical it is). I wonder what the movie means if you don't recognize any of the references; is it just an amped up adventure movie?
The trip was fun. We had to sign an NDA but I saw so many props from the Blue Fairy from AI to a very realistic Agent Smith from the Matrix to the ships from Galaxy Quest and I recognized so many of the people who worked there not to mention our host has an Oscar. Oddly enough, my sister had a similar tour the next week when she was interviewing for an executive position at the now defunct Lucasarts which was in the upper floors of the building. She turned them down. one nice thing is that we went to the company store and it has now moved outside the building so the public can visit at will: https://presidio.gov/explore/attractions/skywalker-ranch-general-store
I suspect that PAs don't explicitly name their inspirations and Daz discontinued the editorial license for the same reason: marking items as being directly drawn from popular media opened Daz themselves up to liability, so better to create plausible deniability.
I must say that I saw a conversation in a forum discussing Christopher Nolan's Odyssey where someone discussed a plot point, someone else complained that their comment is a spoiler, and everyone said nothing is a spoiler for something over 2000 years old.
I have never seen "A Song of Ice and Fire" or its adaptation "Game of Thrones." Wyverns existed as early as Dungeons & Dragons, which laid the foundation for modern fantasy. I often see wyverns in Monster Hunter and World of Warcraft.
This is indeed a difficult problem. A is considered to have referenced B, but B actually referenced C, and C...
Getting back to the point, if a product almost completely copies an IP, it should definitely be clearly labeled. But if it's just very similar, it's more complicated. For example, there are many games that "pay homage" to Pokémon, including adult games, and they never got into trouble until a certain game became popular and made the decision to develop the IP. Soon after, they received lawyer's letters.
This kind of thing is more likely to happen in this day and age, especially when artists use AI for early design, making it easier for "pre-existing designs" to emerge. In any case, I'm glad that many people here value copyright, especially in an era where the internet is flooded with advertisements that disregard copyright.
As far as I am aware, you cannot apply an IP patent retrospectively. Therefore, anyone who had made similar entities previously would themselves be clear of any infringement.
Setting aside that this wouldn't be an issue of patent, but rather some combination of copyright and trademark, I think you're misunderstanding the scenario. They're describing a game that ripped off Pokemon flying under the legal radar until it attained a certain level of popularity that made it worthwhile for the Pokemon Company to pursue legal action.
I can't comment on that as I've never played Pokemon and I know nothing of any other similar games, let alone any lawsuits pertaining to them.
My gaming portfolio currently extends as far as Tomb Raider, Thief, ETS2, ATS and Mafia, plus a couple of AVNs on Steam. Thirty years ago, I was an avid gamer, having had the original Playstation since it's 1996 release date. I still have over 40 Playstation consoles (of all generations) and some 1000+ games, hardly any of which see the light of day any more.
on some sites where you can upload images either as art or as art to sell as products they have a section to type in description tags so viewers can discover your artwork which can sometimes include themes inspiration for example Star Wars even if the artwork has nothing to do with said product but it is the theme with the idea someone that likes that type of Science Fiction style as many SciFi movies, shows, comics extra were called that anyway I've used tags that think might grab someones attention that if you like such and such you might like this even though it has nothing to do with the tag which I and others have gotten into trouble with over some tags like I did with a character ooked nothing like my character
There's been plenty of Wyverns in Warhammer over the years (albeit alongside dragons with six limbs), considerably predating the Game of Thrones production, and many predating the Song of Ice and Fire books.
http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/Dragons_-_Collectors_Guide ;
Of course, Warhammer Fantasy was in many ways inspired by Dungeons and Dragons (as AsuCafe mentioned), but it's where I first encountered wyverns as a concept, certainly (and I can tell you that I've never watched Game of Thrones nor read the books, and am only vaguely familiar with it through cultural osmosis).It's entirely unfair to call anyone a liar for saying that they've definitely taken their inspiration for wyverns from GoT or GRRM.
wyverns are portrayed in medieval works
they are well within the public domain
I think there's a difference between R2D2 and a generic lizard (regardless of the number of legs).
Outfits is a very difficult area, unless they are from a very iconic IP and also very unique to that IP then 'fashion is fashion'.
Characters: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/638911/celebrity-look-a-likes-for-3d-figures-part-4 I haven't done any strictly commercial renders but even I make sure I am character-mixing (a big reason for me to start using G9) to get both reasonable-uniqueness and to attempt to remove any glaring resemblance to 'models' (both very famous and not so much).
(great discussion
)
So... the "wyvern" thing is pointing out what I am getting at. The test of whether you are not using IP properly isn't whether there is a plausible case where a dragon type has been use in the past but whether an average person, who watches tv and movies, would see your dragon and try to render scenes that look like Game of Thrones, Warhammer, or Dungeons & Dragons (all IP). What I think is more practical is for a customer, who wants to use a product in a commercial endeavour, is to always modify and transform the product to make it yours. This is always legal. Contrary to popular belief, product placement is entirely legal. You have that costume that looks like it is out of Supergirl a cosplayer can be shown wearing the costume at a convection without any legal concerns about the IP holder. Parody is legal; Spaceballs didn't have to get permission from 20th Century Fox for example. A case where I would wonder how labeling would work is the Daz Original, John 9 . His bundles contain garments, textures, props, and poses that suggest a religious figure who I will refer to as "Besus". Should there be a label saying that these could be viewed as potentially offensive and blasphemy so use the products with caution?
My issue with John 9 is that he should have been called Josh.
Or a hispanic name like Jésus?
the creators of warhammer and warhammer 40,000 have openly admitted bragged even they borrowed copied ideas from various movies, tv, comics, games extra funny thing is is they are now going after removing anyone/anything that resembles their product including removing youtubers talking about their product or playing their games or tutorials big uproar from fans on it on youtube and elsewhere