A View Through The Mirror

background · May 24

3DIO said:

@background
Hah, well since I'm not a drinker, I've never had to adopt such a pose :-D

I'm enjoying your story for sure, although I'm not sure you'll enjoy that video much. Watchable, just, but the compression on it is so bad that it makes their eyes and mouth look weird. The main girl especially looks like she's been given a black eye at times. It's a shame the quality's so bad cause it's a good documentary.

The 2016 film "The Conjurng 2" is about the exact same thing (a highly recommended film that actually translated well to the screen):

Thanks for the link, I'll watch it for sure. I have some old home video's that were originally on videotape ( not sure of the format ) and they are so bad, but at the time they were made it was 'normal' for video recordings to look smeared and generally poor. One of my favourite 'horror' television plays is 'The Stone Tape' by Nigel Kneale, who I mentioned earlier. He specialised in stories that mixed the supernatural with technology. The Stone Tape is about a group of scientists who are trying to create 'the next big thing' in recording media in 1972. They discover that a room in their laboratory is haunted, and set out to try to work out how the haunting works, and if they can trigger an apparition on demand using technology. They hope to adapt the haunting mechanism into a recordable media. Needless to say things get out of hand.

Another of his telvision plays 'The Road' is lost, but it's an unusual take on the supernatural. It is set in the very early days of scientific experiments, when tools like an electroscope were firtst invented. A group of people meet to examine a strange place in a forest, which is supposed to be 'haunted'. some of those present are 'sensitive' and claim to see huge 'beasts' and hear wailing noises and people screaming, It turns out this is a haunting from a future event, specifically a road which is full of refugees fleeing from impending nuclear war.

Quatermass and the Pit has some interesting ideas in it such as Invasion by Proxy. Aliens on another planet want to colonise Earth, but our environment in too hostile for them, so instead the abduct some early hominids, enhance their brain capacity, indoctrinate them, and then return them to Earth, hoping that they will thrive and displace the normal hominids with more intelligent creatures that follow the aliens beliefs. Which begs the question.. if creatures on another planet think like you and hold the same beliefs as you, does it really matter if they are physically different from you?

background · May 24

Life imitates art???

Ok I'm sort of joking but a bit peeved that the BBC have run an article on their website about the army running wargames on a disused station on the London Underground. Don't they realise they just ruined a major plot point of my story here?? I might as well tell you all that my story takes place on an island which has several settlements which are connected via an underground railway. This has advantages from a story point of view. It allows me to use several different environment sets without having to try to combine them into one, or represent the countryside in between them. All I have to do is add an Undersground station access point to each set. Characters can be on one set, and then quickly travel in complete darkness to a different set which is a different style. So long as each set is surrounded by a fence the rest of the island effectively doesn't exist and doesn't need to be rendered.. Grumble grumble grumble. Now people are going to say "Oh you got that idea from the army exercises ". Well I'm going to use it anyway, so a big raspberry to the BBC and the army.

garrett_3d · May 24

background said:

Life imitates art???

Ok I'm sort of joking but a bit peeved that the BBC have run an article on their website about the army running wargames on a disused station on the London Underground. Don't they realise they just ruined a major plot point of my story here?? I might as well tell you all that my story takes place on an island which has several settlements which are connected via an underground railway. This has advantages from a story point of view. It allows me to use several different environment sets without having to try to combine them into one, or represent the countryside in between them. All I have to do is add an Undersground station access point to each set. Characters can be on one set, and then quickly travel in complete darkness to a different set which is a different style. So long as each set is surrounded by a fence the rest of the island effectively doesn't exist and doesn't need to be rendered.. Grumble grumble grumble. Now people are going to say "Oh you got that idea from the army exercises ". Well I'm going to use it anyway, so a big raspberry to the BBC and the army.

Don't panic!

garrett_3d · May 24

3DIO said:

@background
If the quality were VHS then that would be watchable. I just meant that it has that aweful 90s compression that makes it look as if it was shot on some early flip phone or something. but yup, I do think you'll enjoy the documentary.

I know the Hammer film since it's part of the collectors box I have.  Never heard of "The Stone Tape", so just did a search and found a short clip, but cannot find the full play. I'll keep an eye out though, cause I do love those old BBC-produced one-off plays.

One of my favourites (and I honestly couldn't give a flying flamingo how controversial it is), is Dennis Potter's "Brimstone and Treacle" (the original 1976 BBC version).  At the time, religious types were frothing at the mouth over it, because it portrayed a heinous act of the Devil bringing about a positive result. It's not the sort of thing I could link to I'm afraid, but it's very cleverly written, superbly acted with very well cast characters, and is the only example I know of that has people 'perma-locked' into what is quite a conflicting mind-game. I must stress here I'm talking strictly about the 1976 BBC version which they held back from broadcast until 1987 (the one starring Michael Kitchen and Denholm Elliott), so that's eleven years it was held back from being publicly broadcast due to the religious backlash it generated.

But that's what quality writing is all about:

- If you're left thinking, then that's good writing.
- If you're left angry but thinking, then that's even better writing.
- If you're left angry but unable to defend your anger, then that's writing on a whole new level of genius.

Brimstone and Treacle is the latter of the three, and there's a reason Dennis Potter was such a highly acclaimed screenwriter.
Nothing demonstrates that genius better than that one, and there was you lot thinking The Devlil looks like  Daz's Astaroth 9

Nah, I'm here to tell you all right now that "The Devil" looks like this, and that he is indeed Evil personified :

Damn! I remember watching that as a teenager. I seem to remember it being rather gritty at points. Definitely not something to watch over afternoon tea with your nan.

background · May 24

3DIO said:

@background
If the quality were VHS then that would be watchable. I just meant that it has that aweful 90s compression that makes it look as if it was shot on some early flip phone or something. but yup, I do think you'll enjoy the documentary.

I know the Hammer film since it's part of the collectors box I have.  Never heard of "The Stone Tape", so just did a search and found a short clip, but cannot find the full play. I'll keep an eye out though, cause I do love those old BBC-produced one-off plays.

One of my favourites (and I honestly couldn't give a flying flamingo how controversial it is), is Dennis Potter's "Brimstone and Treacle" (the original 1976 BBC version).  At the time, religious types were frothing at the mouth over it, because it portrayed a heinous act of the Devil bringing about a positive result. It's not the sort of thing I could link to I'm afraid, but it's very cleverly written, superbly acted with very well cast characters, and is the only example I know of that has people 'perma-locked' into what is quite a conflicting mind-game. I must stress here I'm talking strictly about the 1976 BBC version which they held back from broadcast until 1987 (the one starring Michael Kitchen and Denholm Elliott), so that's eleven years it was held back from being publicly broadcast due to the religious backlash it generated.

But that's what quality writing is all about:

- If you're left thinking, then that's good writing.
- If you're left angry but thinking, then that's even better writing.
- If you're left angry but unable to defend your anger, then that's writing on a whole new level of genius.

Brimstone and Treacle is the latter of the three, and there's a reason Dennis Potter was such a highly acclaimed screenwriter.
Nothing demonstrates that genius better than that one, and there was you lot thinking The Devlil looks like  Daz's Astaroth 9

Nah, I'm here to tell you all right now that "The Devil" looks like this, and that he is indeed Evil personified :

Oh I absolutely agree. I once had a discussion with a work colleague who was quite religious ( I know that's a tricky subject here so i won't dwell on any religion aspects of our talk) I described what happens in Brimstone and Treacle and asked him if 'curing' the young lady was a good deed, even if it was done with evil intent. He got very annoyed and walked away.

I liked 'Blue Remembered Hills' Even though the actors were adults it was easy to think of them as children.

Children can be innocent and extremely cruel at the same time.

background · May 25

Well it looks like the the effects of the gas have worn off, and he's waking up. His fire has gone out, but otherwise things seem normal. I don't think he's quite woken up yet though. Best to open a window and get some fresh air.

background · May 25

Something's not right, maybe a burglar has stolen his windowbox? But I think it's more serious.

I stuggled with his expression, I wanted him to look shocked, but not open mouthed like a goldfish I removed the windowbox to make it clear this is not a copy of the earlier view. It could come back though, or at least a similar one.

Richard Haseltine · May 26

background said:

One for Richard, and not part of the story as such... If I was to use this character in my story would that be ok? He's not taken from a game or anything, I 'created' him based on a photo. I like to change my characters from the 'out of the box' look. Maybe not always this photogenic, but I hope believable.

Based on or an exact match? And are you actually using the photo as the texture? An exact match might fall foul of right of publicity, and of course if you are using an actual photo it is protected by copyright. A look-alike that wasn't using a photo would probably be fairly safe.

background · May 27

Richard Haseltine said:

background said:

One for Richard, and not part of the story as such... If I was to use this character in my story would that be ok? He's not taken from a game or anything, I 'created' him based on a photo. I like to change my characters from the 'out of the box' look. Maybe not always this photogenic, but I hope believable.

Based on or an exact match? And are you actually using the photo as the texture? An exact match might fall foul of right of publicity, and of course if you are using an actual photo it is protected by copyright. A look-alike that wasn't using a photo would probably be fairly safe.

Thanks Richard. Sadly it uses a photo as the texture, so it's best if I try to find some other texture for him. I've deleted the pictures in my original question.

Richard Haseltine · May 27

background said:

Richard Haseltine said:

background said:

One for Richard, and not part of the story as such... If I was to use this character in my story would that be ok? He's not taken from a game or anything, I 'created' him based on a photo. I like to change my characters from the 'out of the box' look. Maybe not always this photogenic, but I hope believable.

Based on or an exact match? And are you actually using the photo as the texture? An exact match might fall foul of right of publicity, and of course if you are using an actual photo it is protected by copyright. A look-alike that wasn't using a photo would probably be fairly safe.

Thanks Richard. Sadly it uses a photo as the texture, so it's best if I try to find some other texture for him. I've deleted the pictures in my original question.

Yes, that would be best. Feng has quite a good catalogue of "character actors"

Artini · May 27

I have found your thread.
More delightful comments and images. I'll be watching with great interest.

background · May 28

Thanks 3DiO, I'll look at replacing the texture,and probably change the morph. I created him specifically to resemble the character from Thunderball, so changing him sort of feels like going backwards, but i understand why it's not allowed. There's not a 'Bond' theme to my story, but I like to base characters on people from Film or TV, I find it's easier to use a 'real' person as the foundation for a character, the way they speak, their expressions, even the way they move, rather than starting from a blank slate.

I really liked Denholm Elliott in the TV adaption of Charles Dickens 'The Signalman' , possibly because it combines the supernatural and railways.

background · May 28

Things have slowed down a bit, but I've not stopped the story. It's been too hot here to have the computer rendering images, I can't afford to damage it. But i'm still making notes on things I want to include.

background · May 28

Yes we shouldn't complain about the weather, but we do all the time. I think our weather is predictably unpredictable if that makes sense

I agree with you on the acting, they were all believable characters, and yes the girl looked completely helpess , especially with her eyes and mouth movements. I think for me the girl was perhaps too realistic, and I was feeling very sorry for her, even though I knew she was acting, but she was fine in the end, so I guess all's well that ends well.

background · June 7

3DIO said:

I hope I haven't killed your thread, background! I thought there would be a whole bunch of new stuff by now. Also, sadly I missed whatever it was was you posted in Barbult's thread.

"It's not dead, it's pining for the village". Don't worry you didn't kill the thread, what is happening is, as I suspected, I am having trouble translating the image in my head into an image on the screen. Even at this early stage I'm looking at pictures I already posted and wishing I had done them differently, not the character or the poses, but more to do with the details of the set, like the style of the windows. Ideally I would like to put the character into the Portmeirion setting ( I'm sure i alreeady wrote that ) but it's not feasible without spending maybe a year creating buildings. Failing that I would like to capture the style of the place, but the problem is it's very open. I tried some Stonemason sets, but they looked just too claustrophobic ( not a criticism of the sets, I know they can't be infinitely large ). I tried adding a building to the edge of a set, and it was like looking down a tunnel. Also my budget is not very big, so I'm trying to use what I already have.

The thing I posted in barbult's thread was a cartoon of a human Richard wearing a leotard, no insult intended, it was just a joke, but as barbult said, she prefers Richard to be a cat in her thread.

I hope I can come up with some sort of environment that references the original series well enough to satisfy my vision. The frustrating thing is I have things like the vehicles lined up but no place to put them on. The silly thing is I expect viewers won't care what the environment looks like so long as the story is entertaining.

background · June 7

3DIO said:

I'm normally very annoyed when I miss something that was deleted.
That's "Normally", but in this case more like relieved :-D

Regards progressing past the brain fog, honestly, I'm not exaggerating in the least when I say I love the vibe of what you've done so far. Everything from the character, to the car, to the buildings, render style, everything really, I think it all works really well. I'm not you, and you should stick to whatever you feel is best regardless of anyone's opinion, but if I did happen to be you, I would see this first story as more of a practice run. Use it to learn (as you are doing) what you would and would not do in a future story. Not in so far as storyline, but workflow, inspiration and priorities, that sort of thing.

I decided to use it as my thumbnail.

background · June 7

"Now, he is in REM sleep, we can start the experiment whenever you are ready"

I solved the problem of the view from his window by avoiding it, for the moment

background · June 7

"The information in his head is too valuable to risk damage, so we are going to give him the opportunity to change his mind, before we resort to more drastic measures"

background · June 7

."We will put him back to a few minutes before he resigned, and ensure that it plays out differently, in his head at least"

I will need to indicate that he is dreaming.. maybe a vignette would work.

background · June 7

Hmm I could change it back... if I still had the old image, it's possible but I have no idea where it would be after so long. Found one.

Yes a white vignette sounds sensible. To be honest this whole sequesnce was not planned this way, although dream manipulation comes into the story later. The original series used a random colection of oscilloscopes and panels with dials to portray a dream altering device, I have something more up to date, but we'll have to see if it is frowned upon.... I think some things will look different in the dream, but who knows.

WendyLuvsCatz · June 10

re your post in Barbult's thread

I see what you mean

Google Earth doesn't even have 3D views of Portmeirion, even my house and suburb has 3D in Google Earth

probably some restrictions they applied for since they have a lot of paid content

most places one can usually find someone has 3D modeled architecture too

scans and Gaussian splats are easy with a drone and for example Unreal's Reality Scan

I only found a statue of Atlas

I have too many trees to 3D scan my house but then again, I also have actual blueprints, floor plans and side elevations if I was inclined to model it

oh, there are souvenir miniatures from the TV set https://www.theunmutual.co.uk/pmmodels.htm now collectors items

background · June 10

Thanks Wendy, yes i found the Atlas statue, it seems quite expensive so I think I'll need to make my own. I think the estate sold resin models of the main buildings, but they are long since discontinued, they would have been great for taking measurements from. There was one of the resin models of the tower, with the top missing/damaged and they still wanted £50 for it ( and it's sold anyway ). I hope I would be ok to make and render my own models, but I wouldn't try to sell or give them away the models because i think they would not be happy. They seem to be happy for people to take photos, so I hope renders would be ok, so long as I'm not misrepresenting the place. They seem more than happy to be associated with 'The Prisoner' even to the extent of having a dedicated Prisoner related shop in the building which was supposed to be his house. In reality the whole place is a hotel and ornamental garden. I 'think' they would be more than happy for anything that might make people want to visit the real place. It's a great area for tourism, not far away is Portmadoc with the Ffestiniog railway ( and rebuilt sections of the Welsh Highland and NWNGR North Wales Narrow Guage Railway ). I visited the railway not long after they brought one of the SAR Narrow guage Garratt locomotives back to the UK and restored it to running order. You can see below how huge the engine is compared to the Welsh coaches.

WendyLuvsCatz · June 10

I even have a 3D model of my city, Adelaide SouthAustralia

(I added the terrain, cannot get the elevation data now from USGS probably Doge defunded it)

you can grab it here

https://data.sa.gov.au/data/dataset/3d-model

no idea why though

background · June 10

That's a very extensive model, and a great video of it.

richardandtracy · June 10

The Portmerion Google Earth map is here.

Lots of areas of the UK have no 3D buildings, they're putting them in slowly. My house & the rest of the village have been 3D'd in the last year or so, the local town was done a bit before. They have als 3d'd all the trees & bushes locally. It's quite surprising how much is visible. Anyway, possibly 25% of England is 3D'd with a bit lower percentage over the other countries in the UK.

It is amazing & disconcerting to find that the campsite at Ellis Beach, just north of Cairns QLD, a campsite we've been to a couple of times, is 3D'd. Absolutely amazing.

Regards,

Richard

background · June 10

Thanks Other Richard. It's great for showing thebuildings, roads and trees too. .I just got home after watching 'Disclosure Day' no spoilers, but wow my local cinema is LOUD. Everything was loud, adverts, trailers, everything. I reckon there could be a full on riot in the cinema and you would still hear the film over it.

MelanieL · June 10

I also followed you here from barbult's thread (didn't want to derail it even more)

Maybe try this link: https://en-zw.topographic-map.com/map-fh2zkl/Portmeirion/?center=52.91313,-4.09782&zoom=18&popup=52.91201,-4.09348&base=6

If you put it into full-screen and pick CyclOSM from the little pile of squares at the top right:

then you'll get a coloured contour map. If you click anywhere on the map it will give you a height in metres. If you grab the map and drag a tiny bit it will go to greyscale for as long as you hold on onto it which shows the contour lines more clearly.

EDIT for typoes - I must be spending too long reading Richard H's posts and the spelling is rubbing off on me!

Ah And I've just noticed that you can turn off the colours using the checkbox under the word "CyclOSM" too - I didn't spot it at first - so no need to mess with grabbing and moving.

background · June 10

MelanieL said:

I also followed you here from barbult's thread (didn't want to derail it even more)

Maybe try this link: https://en-zw.topographic-map.com/map-fh2zkl/Portmeirion/?center=52.91313,-4.09782&zoom=18&popup=52.91201,-4.09348&base=6

If you put it into full-screen and pick CyclOSM from the little pile of squares at the top right:

EDIT for typoes - I must be spending too long reading Richard H's posts and the spelling is rubbing off on me!

Ah And I've just noticed that you can turn off the colours using the checkbox under the word "CyclOSM" too - I didn't spot it at first - so no need to mess with grabbing and moving.

Thanks for the link, I think I looked at that, but the shaded map is rather evened out, there are certainly some steep slopes and cliffs within the gardens.. The individual point height could be very useful though. I hope you find the thread interesting, I know I do tend to go off in temporary diversions.

WendyLuvsCatz · June 10

now thats weird,

my previous USGS searches came up on that site

and why is my post font so small?

normal after posting but tiny typing

background · June 10

WendyLuvsCatz said:

re your post in Barbult's thread

I see what you mean

Google Earth doesn't even have 3D views of Portmeirion, even my house and suburb has 3D in Google Earth

probably some restrictions they applied for since they have a lot of paid content

most places one can usually find someone has 3D modeled architecture too

scans and Gaussian splats are easy with a drone and for example Unreal's Reality Scan

I only found a statue of Atlas

I have too many trees to 3D scan my house but then again, I also have actual blueprints, floor plans and side elevations if I was inclined to model it

oh, there are souvenir miniatures from the TV set https://www.theunmutual.co.uk/pmmodels.htm now collectors items

Wendy, Thanks for the link to the unmutual website. I have ordered the village technical manual so we'll see if it's as good as it describes.

Notifications

A View Through The Mirror

Comments

Life imitates art???

Life imitates art???

Adding to Cart…