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What if DAZ could offer two or three doors. And images disappear for door one but appear in door two or three? What if everyone could have their desired user experience?
But because I am still very angry about the senseless unethical loss of a pet I probably should just keep my mouth shut and not post any ideas. Since April 01. too depressed to use up store credits, I lost stars here and stopped posting because I am feeling a tad hostile. I decided to vist RR and mindlessly download some abandoned RR orders (not just freebies) from the past. I seldom shopped there because their nudity filter sucked and for some vendors it felt like I was visiting hustler. But now that some of those vendors are here, I thought RR can't be any wosre than DAZ. Yesterday at RR I was downloading a product with 12 peomo images, and as I often do as life interferes during downloading or posting, I turned off wifi and walked away. This time seeking another distraction to my grief, a comedy movie. Today, the same RR download I abandoned yesterday, tells me there is only one promo pic because I am on 'safe' mode. I never ever was asked or chose a mode. When I clicked the promo image and hit the arrow button for next I got nada. No option to view, You have to go to settings and change preferences to one of three settings: Safe, Mature or Adult. Mature is okay for teens skimpy but not nude, so I selected it. If the product has 16 images and four are adult they only reveal 10 if I select safe I see less. When I arrow thru I do not get an option to view them. They no longer exist. Clever . . . but the problem is they do not ask if I am 10 13 18 or . . . . so it is a false safeguard and the images still have icons saying adult nudity. Very very close to a solution that would benefit all but no cigar. What if DAZ could offer two or three doors. And images disappear for door one but appear in door two or three, What if DAZ did not display an adult content warning but based on user profiles served them less or more promo images and canned the adult icons for all of us. We either (via our profile) want to see them or we don't. Is it possible to please all buyers? But maybe ignore me. My brain is in fried mode. I am calling my live pet my dead pet's name so forgive me if I am off course (gone south) with this one.
I totally understand where you are right now and you have my complete sympathies and empathy. On Friday I had to take the older of my two indoor cats to the vet for the last time. She would have turned 20 on April 15th, but despite everything we'd tried her ancient kidneys had finally give up the ghost and there was nothing more that could be done. I console myself by remembering that my ex found her as a kitten in our apartment parking lot and she lived a much longer and better life than she ever would have if we hadn't taken her in, but losing a pet always rips me to shreds. That's just the price we pay for letting them take a such an important place in our hearts and accepting all the love they're willing to give us.
Apologies, I hadn't really picked up on the fact that it was just the newer stuff effected, but I know about that now. And I forgot to reply to a previous message of yours, the one about Renderosity. I'm definitely going to need somewhere else to purchase (characters) if they do not fix this problem, and Renderosity is the oldest of them all as far as I'm aware, so it's just as well they have a sensible system in place.
Just to be clear, I've nothing against Renderosity, it's just that I've always liked the idea of buying everything here in one place, so I really hope they fix it. I can still buy other stuff here, like scenes, cloth, hair and Daz Studio tools (and of course will do so). But when it comes to characters and their textures, nope, not unless I can see what I'm buying, and that is a perfectly obvious requirement.
I do love Daz dearly, but ultimately I'm not joined at the hip.
There have been several cases recently where platforms using payment processors (Stripe, Visa, Mastercard, and some others) where pressured about mature content. This applied to at least two platforms selling video games and indie creators' stuff (including mature games), and sparked quite a public protest. I think Patreon had those issues too. And the "mature fans" website.
As for some nudity being still present, it might be the case of gradually getting rid of it. With some 67k products in store, it'll take a while, but the goodwill would be shown by not allowing more.
On the bright side, I've read somewhere that FCC (I think it was them) was preparing a regulation to stop banks and payment processors from putting pressure on legal but undesired business like those offering adult stuff. Maybe it'll happen?
Looking at recent figures releases and seeing there have been no nudes of any kind included for any reason for a while now, it seems the net result of whatever rules change happened has resulted in an effective ban on nudes. And except for the relatively brief window where nudes were allowed, this has long been normal Daz policy.
My only other thought on the topic is, not all PAs ever participated in showing nudes. Certainly, I've bought a large number of figures knowing there would be something in the hidden areas. If it's not to my liking, I have paint programs and other assets in my library that I can use as desired to do whatever. It matters only in renders where revealing nudity is shown - Not everyone does that. And this is in contrast to to implied nudity, where the character is undressed but nothing revealing is shown. I have empathy for people who want to see everything, and my preference is to see everything. Yet, for me, it's not a dealbreaker either way.
Yes, that was a comment on something a PA posted but it turned out that they had not been aware that the rules had changed, so we were both wrong.
You should try viewing this store without the adult content flag, I do this when I browse from my phone and don't log into the store. I find it bizarre what is condidered "mature" that I have to click on to have it display. Or contrarily, the images that aren't considered mature and therefore aren't concealed. The criteria seem arbitrary and capricious given even a generous benefit of the doubt. It's for this reason that I find the whole topic to be somewhat unreasonable. But then, I also tend not to purchase figures unless they come with a complete array of textures - unless I find them in some way exceptional. The vendors/artists that gimp their works by not including what on some (or one) sites is called "gender representation" (and here on Daz I'm talking about adult figures) essentially exclude me as a customer quite often solely for that reason whether or not I have any intention of using such a texture. Maybe it's the completist in me? At least in the description the details will indicate the presence, or absence, of these textures. So while the morphs of clothing may have peculiar names that make determining just what they might accomplish more like guesswork from some artists, at least the descriptions are useful for that diferentiation.
You assumed right. This post is a post I wish I (or any animal lover) never had to make.
It's pretty well known that the items marked as "mature" are often innocuous while more revealing images slip through. Some of us believe that AI does the heavy lifting there, and thr results are a bit strange. But here's the thing: I have hundreds (and hundreds!) of figures in my library. They all have some sort of texture for the whole figure body. Some of those textures have genitalia painted in for the women. Most all of them have nipples. But many lack decent textures for the add-on Daz genitalia (male and female). Probably a lot of folks interested in nudes have 3rd party genitalia. There are even 3rd party geografted breasts. I've got a whole, geografted 3rd party G8F replacement intended exclusively for rendering nudes - She's a well-made character compatible with existing morphs and textures. She's a colossal effort from the vendor who made her. You can get also vellus, pubic and body hair packages for various figures - All kinds of stuff.
When I started out, I didn't understand any of that. Now, I've tempered my expectations. When I buy a character, I'm looking at the face, eyes, and shape morphs. I'm attracted (or repelled) by the overall look of the character, the visible skin, and extras. Whatever exists under the cloth is manageable. At least, that's what I've found. YMMV, and none of that especially invalidates your points. It's just my different perspective. I should probably make an effort to share some of what I've found in that realm. I imagine there are people who might be interested to see.
I agree with what you've said. I have most, if not all, of the potential add-ons that can be found for the figures from multiple vendors. That being said, I still appreciate the "total package" so to speak. Lately I've been quite taken with the figures that Magic Brush creates, along with the hair, though the outfits and scenery are sometimes not quite to my taste. Yet I tend to get the package because it's a better deal anyway. My only quibble lately is that they had, until recently, included anatomical mats with pretty much all of their figures and now their most recent works seem to be regressing in that regard. Otherwise they're looking extremely good, so I am still buying them. But there may come a point at which I stop, simply due to my philosophy of inclusion of assets within a product.
As for the difference in display, I find it amusing and odd. But then, I'm difficult if not impossible to offend. If I see images on some other site that might rhyme with otica that I dislike or come close to offending me what I do is not bother with them. Apparently there is a market for such things, obviously, and I am not it. That's the extent of my interaction with such things. Outrage is not my job, nor my hobby.
Looking at that PA's most recent figures and seeing words like "youthful" in the description leads me to believe they are teen figures and Daz3d normally does not allow anatomical elements for young characters.
I spent ages on the store yesterday, going through characters to bookmark for possible purchase. At least six potential sales were lost during that session due to not being able to see the full skin texture, two of which were from a vendor I've never even seen or heard of before, so it's a damn shame, really.
It's annoying not being able to see technical nudity, and personally that's all I'm asking for here; technical nudity as Daz themselves used to do it.
When a PA is usually including AE textures and isn't including them with a character, it's fair bet to see that absence as the proof of the character being viewed as a teenager by Daz.
Just buy the ones you like and if the hidden bits for some of them are not to your taste, ask for a refund for these characters, keeping the others.
You don't have to provide a reason when asking for one. Just keep it simple:
@Elor
Nope, I'm not doing that and shouldn't need to; a system that caters to both groups of customer is obviously better than a system that caters to one.
There's a few more characters I intend to buy from Daz, but other than that, my visit to the store yesterday confirmed that without technical nudity, my purchasing of characters from the Daz store has run dry. I literally have no other choice in the matter than to purchase characters elsewhere from then onwards.
This is the wrong sort of hobby for people who have a problem with nudity. I don't buy characters for their skin texture when I cannot see the skin texture I'm buying, and not surprisingly, every single time I've done that in the past, it has proven itself to be a bad move.
i agree which is why I said looking at the characters (which is subjective) and seeing the word choice made me believe they are teen figures.
Terms like 'young' or 'youthful' have been used quite a bit in the AI and related industries as codewords to try and deflect AI prompting issues with using words like teen or teenager.
Elor,
Yes, this appears to be the most practical route. Not everyone will be happy, but this way they can have their cake, attempt to eat it, and have the option to hand it back when they don't like the serving. I've had good experience with the Daz team handling refunds. I can vouch for the process.
Oy Dios Mio, Denizens of Dazland. Civilization and sanity survives, albeit at the price of a little inconvenience. Please, so much ephemeral bits have been spent on what amounts to harrumphing. Let the matter go,
Cheers!
So, using your criteria, the figures by Cherubit - six female and one male - one female and one male have anatomical materials while the rest do not. By that measure all the other five are underage, or considered so? Yet... only Scarlett has two ages, so it is inevitable/understandable that there won't be any such available there. But the others? Should they be crones before they get to have anatomy? I could easily find other examples, this was just the quickest. And I like Cherubit's work, don't mistake me.
@csaa
I don't buy character textures that I cannot see prior to purchase. Life's too short to be messed around requesting refunds, so the only thing I'll be "letting go" is the purchasing of characters from the Daz store, which is very unfortunate, but short of creating my own textures, it's really the only other sensible solution there is.
3DIO,
Maybe I'm missing something here. Why not buy textures that you can not see prior to purchase, to try them out first and then refund if you don't like? If there's a technical, financial or philosophical reason for this, please help me understand. Is life really so precarious to preclude taking a chance and purchase an image texture, one that you're free to refund afterwards?
Furthermore, why do you believe that your's, as you state, is the "only sensible solution there is"? There's always more than one way to skin a cat, as the old saying goes, so I'm baffled by such a unilateral stance.
Cheers!
Well then this ole prude will probably have to go the same route and say so long to 3D. I just don't want to see erotica (look it up in the dictionary). It's that simple. I don't care if people want to make it and show it, I just don't want to see it. So since I don't want to see it and most other folks want to, then I will have to seriously reconsider everything and find another way to make art. Mods, feel free to delete if you need to. Thanks.
I don't know about 3DIO, but I cannot guarantee I will test every purchase between purchase date and end of refund period. I'd rather miss the sale then add yet another item to my Daz library that I won't end up using. Even "testing them out" isn't as simple as you say. Will they look good in the lighting I use today, tomorrow, a month from now? I have a lot of plates spinning. And my Daz stuff is 99% long term series of renders and 1% one and done renders.
I think @csaa has a point. We're starting to row in circles now. I've said what I wanted to say and I'm letting this go.
+1
Ok. Thanks for explaining where you're coming from. Clearly everyone has differnt purchasing goals, as varied as the sand on the sea shore. Pardon me if I'm simplifying things, but it sounds like your purchasing philosophy is to bag items that "look good" for all time, for all rendering scenarios you put together?
Hmm. Gosh. I don't know -- I'm just a dumb engineer. I can only speak authoritatively about my own use cases. But it does sound as if you put a lot of expectations on what you purchase here. Hows a PA to fare under such exacting standards?
Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll mull oiver them.
Cheers!
@csaa
I don't ike requesting refunds. I hate it. I feel really bad whenever I have to request a refund, so there's no way I would ever buy a bunch of characters knowing that the chances of them needing to be refunded, would be extremely high. But it's also because the situation is just so extremely bizarre that it shouldn't even exist!
I could be wrong, but even Richard seems to be out of the loop on this one!
@MuonQuark
I don't understand why you would feel the need to desert a website that would be even cleaner than it is now. The filter would ensure that only the cleanest of clean is presented to you by default when logged out, and even by default when logged in unless you specifically enable nudity in your control panel.
@jmucchiello
Same here. In fact I have products that I bought long ago and had completley forgotten about downloading for one reason or another.
Maybe I'm being simple here, but how could one naked render make such a difference that you would suddenly know if a skin would look good under all circumstances? I'm genuinely curious. It seems to me that one naked render would tell you how it looks under one specific set of lighting. And that testing something out youself would give you a variety of lighting setups. Or are you asking for an entire gallery of naked renders under a large variety of lighting?