New policy on mature promo images?

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  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,696

    I remember one complaining offended about bare shoulders and dresses above the knee

  • backgroundbackground Posts: 672
    edited April 2

    If people are worried about getting into trouble for viewing mature images on the DAZ website while at work ( or even just having a 'mature image' Icon), then I would recommend they don't visit the DAZ website at all from work. An employer doesn't need cameras, they will likely log URL's visted and user's ID for any traffic to/from their network. If there is any suggestion of suspicious Internet usage they will check those logs and likely take a look at URL's they don't recognise as business related.  Even looking at lingerie dressed 3D models from work might be difficult to explain once discovered.

    Post edited by background on
  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,696

    what Cyberfox says is what I always thought in that Daz was origionaly aimed at those that wanted to do fantasy and pinup art if you look at the really old stuff Victoria/Michael 1-2-3 eras there was a lot of content clothing characters like we are getting now over time they did start to include more everyday type content as well but then they started to phase out the more creative revealing stuff with clothing being safe and kinda bland same all look then when Daz bought out few other stores and coaxed a lot of creators and their products  from Rendo and other places we had an explosion of variety and creativity in clothing styles I was so happy and excited and then the more descriptive previews I went on so many spending sprees because of that

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,562

    background said:

    If people are worried about getting into trouble for viewing mature images on the DAZ website while at work ( or even just having a 'mature image' Icon), then I would recommend they don't visit the DAZ website at all from work. An employer doesn't need cameras, they will likely log URL's visted and user's ID for any traffic to/from their network. If there is any suggestion of suspicious Internet usage they will check those logs and likely take a look at URL's they don't recognise as business related.  Even looking at lingerie dressed 3D models from work might be difficult to explain once discovered.

    ^ This. And even from yor own phone, you might not want to visit Daz et al while coworkers are around. Prying eyes, easily offended people, HR intervention, etc. It's a mountain of awfulness.

  • FrankTheTankFrankTheTank Posts: 1,565

    And yet somehow Otto has gotten away with flashing his "chocolate starfish" for years now. Perhaps the filthiest promo in the whole store.

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  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,639

    FrankTheTank said:

    And yet somehow Otto has gotten away with flashing his "chocolate starfish" for years now. Perhaps the filthiest promo in the whole store.

    It's worse than you think.  An Octopus's mouth is between it's tentacles, so who knows why Otto has a second, but their male organ is on one of their tentacles, so he's been flashing everyone for all this time.  

  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147
    edited April 2

    @FrankTheTank
    Richard can be quite daring at times, too!

     

    Post edited by 3DIO on
  • DareshiranuDareshiranu Posts: 287

    3DIO said:

    @Dareshiranu
    I know what you mean, but I suppose as far as Daz are concerned, it could be that a nipple formation beneath some clothes (for example), might need to be treated in the same way a bare nipple would be treated.

    @Richard
    I hear you, although I would personally have remedied that situation by implementing a global setting in our accounts so that we can choose to "Show All Images" or "Supress NSFW Images".

    The way they have it now is surely not well placed for a business like this.  It only satisfies one group of people, and that should not be the case.  It should satisfy both groups of people, and having such an option available in our account control panel would surely do that.  While it's true that people have genuine reason to want to surpress technical nudity, it is also true that most of us have genuine reason to not want to do so.

    Sure, the sort of system suggested would mean that every NSFW image uploaded to the store would need to be tagged with an NSFW checkbox.  But since this is something that is only ever done once when a product is uploaded to the store, that shouldn't be a problem for any vendor to do.  Another benefit of such a system is that actually, it would be even better than before, because before, we used to have to uncensor each time we visited a different product page.  With a global setting though, you please everyone, while at the same time, neither group has to repeatedly uncensor anything ever again.

    The only other thing that would be wise with such a system, is to ensure that when new users sign up, this option is presented to them directly, a page where you inform the user of the option to either show or supress NSFW images, and remind them that it can be changed at any time by going in to their account control panel.

    Surely that would be better than what we have now.  And the icing on the cake is that you would not be able to see anything NSFW accidentally.  Because if a person at work decides to visit the Daz store, then the system by default would ensure that no NSFW content is shown.  You would have to actually log in to your Daz account for your setting to take effect, so that in itself would ensure that no accidental NSFW content would ever be shown to someone taking a casual look at the Daz store while at work or anywhere else.

    @Elor
    I don't like requesting refunds on vendor products.  You could easily go through lots of products before finding what you want.  Surely the much better option is to be able to see what you're buying in the first place.  And surely a system that caters to both groups of people is better than a system that caters to one.

    I do agree with you here, but there is a caveat. This presupposes that Daz never makes mistakes when loading/programming their storefront. I think that it's fairly obvious from the various threads of weird pricing issues and other glitches/problems that it's not exactly as simple as that. But I would say that if such a system was implemented that it would be the end user who would be the one to assume the risk in such instances if they're going to use, or misuse their companies resources in such a way and get caught. The same might apply should they go on social media and speak imprudently for instance, it's not as if free speach applies to the corporate environment. So it might be more of a use at your own risk sort of thing. It's not as if, I imagine, that they're using corporate resources to do the rendering after all, so except for the frequent (though incessant) flash sales it's not as if anybody will miss anything if they just wait until they get home to shop anyway. 

    As far as morphs go, I'd like to see a visual representation of what they actually do rather than just read the title of the morph in question - they rarely describe the movement in enough detail. For textures, I'm on your side, but while it's possible to show clothing with a hidden figure, the same isn't the case with textures so I have no plausible answer to offer you.

     

  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147
    edited April 3

    Dareshiranu said:

    I do agree with you here, but there is a caveat. This presupposes that Daz never makes mistakes when loading/programming their storefront. I think that it's fairly obvious from the various threads of weird pricing issues and other glitches/problems that it's not exactly as simple as that.

    That's a very good point, but I'm really just laying-out the basic idea by suggesting a checkbox.  In order to prevent (or at the very least minimise) the sort of error you speak of, what they could do instead is present vendors with two buttons whenever they upload an image.  A big green one called "UPLOAD SAFE IMAGE", and a big red one called "UPLOAD NON-SAFE IMAGE".

    The benefit of this design is two-fold.  Because it means that it's just as easy and obvious for a vendor to click the SAFE button to upload a safe image, as it is to click the NON-SAFE button to upload a non-safe image.  The second benefit is that the step requiring the checkbox is eliminated completely, because the button itself dictates what they are uploading in the first place, and any image uploaded using the red NON-SAFE button is automatically tagged by the system as non-safe.

    Something Muon Quark wrote also got me thinking.  Because I get the feeling that some people might not fully realise the benefit of taggin "per image" as opposed to tagging "per product".  But to put it as simply as possible, vendors would not have to worry about any product being completely tagged as NON-SAFE.  It is only certain images within their product promotion that would be tagged with NON-SAFE.

    This means that vendors would not have to worry about lack of 'reach' due to tagging certain promotional images as NON-SAFE.  All it means is that when someone vists the product page, they will see ALL promotional images if they have SHOW ALL IMAGES turned on in their account.  If, however, they choose to "BLOCK NSFW IMAGES" then the product page itself will still show, but only the safe images demonstrating the product will show.

    Basically, technical nudity and sexual images would fall under NON-SAFE, whereas everything else would fall under SAFE.

    This also goes hand-in-hand with what ArtAngel and Richard mention, since there would be no blank images to click on to uncensor in the first place.  The system simply would not show them, at all, not even those blank placeholders.  Logged out , the system would not be able to load your settings, and therefore anyone casually visiting the Daz store would not see be able to see any NON-SAFE content, purely by design, and by default.

     

    Post edited by 3DIO on
  • backgroundbackground Posts: 672

    I'm doubtful if this would work. We know that some people like to push the boundaries of what is acceptable, I suspect you would find people uploading images as 'SAFE' which really were not. If someone is trying to sell a sexy outfit they will want it seen by as many people as possible ( so SAFE), and to appear as sexy as possible ( so borderline ).

  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147
    edited April 3

    Again, good point but that's something that could be remedied with a warning and confirmation.  For example, they could have it so that at the point where a vendor hits the final "SUBMIT" button to upload their product to the Daz store, they are presented with a warning along the lines of ...

    "I confirm that I fully understand Daz's policy on image categorisation, and have uploaded every product image using the correct image upload button.  I understand that carelessness could lead to closure of my PA account, and loss of any sales royalties owed to me."

    I reckon the PA's would take it all pretty damn seriously if it were done that way, and would lean more towards playing it safe than risking the consequences.

     

    Post edited by 3DIO on
  • backgroundbackground Posts: 672

    It kind of reminds me of the old policy on nudity, which if i recall correctly stated that all 'sensitive' areas had to be obscured, that led to people putting a variety of symbols in front of the areas concerned which drew attention, things like smiley faces with tongues hanging out, you get the picture. Technically following the rules, but done in such a way as to make the image stand out. btw I'm not against nudity, I like to see what I'm buying. Also I suspect threatening to withhold royalties might need a lawyer or a rewrite of the PA terms and conditions, I'm not a PA so I have no idea what conditions they agree to..

  • garrett_3dgarrett_3d Posts: 128

    I don't see any issues with any of the stuff in your galleries, AngelReaper.

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,696

    garrett_3d said:

    I don't see any issues with any of the stuff in your galleries, AngelReaper.

    thanks well the only place I have left is Deviant Art everywhere else no longer can sometimes might get to on a forum thread here 

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 578

    Again this might get me into trouble but I feel I must clarify a little bit.  I'm not opposed to the adult content.  I just don't want to see it.  I want to see regular clothes, dragons, elves, spaceships, plants, architecture, magic things, animals, (more toon generations), and lots of other different stuff so my imagination can make the renders that first drew me to DAZ in the first place.  Just don't want DAZ to turn into an adult only store. Thanks.

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,696

    well Linday found a way of sorts with their latest product dforse escape outfit with showing some reveal morphs by having on an armless/headless silver mannequin

    https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-perfect-escape-outfit-for-genesis-9-8-and-81-female

    dForce Perfect Escape Outfit for Genesis 9, 8 and 8.1 Female by: Linday, 3D Models by Daz 3D

     

     

  • Muon QuarkMuon Quark Posts: 578
    edited April 3

    That is perfectly fine.  I wish I could show what I'm talking about but I don't want to link to any vendor and cause trouble. 

     

    Edited to add:  There is a lot of suggestive underwear though.....

    Post edited by Muon Quark on
  • ElorElor Posts: 3,678

    ANGELREAPER1972 said:

    well Linday found a way of sorts with their latest product dforse escape outfit with showing some reveal morphs by having on an armless/headless silver mannequin

    Found?

    Linday has been doing that since the releases of products made for Genesis 3:

    https://www.daz3d.com/boyfriend-t-shirt-wet-and-dry-for-genesis-3-female-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/satine-detective-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s

  • ANGELREAPER1972ANGELREAPER1972 Posts: 4,696

    Elor said:

    ANGELREAPER1972 said:

    well Linday found a way of sorts with their latest product dforse escape outfit with showing some reveal morphs by having on an armless/headless silver mannequin

    Found?

    Linday has been doing that since the releases of products made for Genesis 3:

    https://www.daz3d.com/boyfriend-t-shirt-wet-and-dry-for-genesis-3-female-s

    https://www.daz3d.com/satine-detective-outfit-for-genesis-3-female-s

    yes true but lately new releases have not been permitted to show previews like that it's recently changed rules

  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147
    edited April 3

    Apologies.  I've edited this post out since it doesn't make sense without the link.

    Post edited by 3DIO on
  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147

    I was able to see the full skins again today, so I just wanted to thank Daz for putting the nude promos back.
    I never understood why they got removed in the first place.  It was baffling, but it's a relief to have 'em back!

    Thanks, it's much appreciated and very much needed.

     

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,639

    On a side note, Rendo just changed it's site preference settings to set your preferred viewing mode to one of three options: safe, mature, and adult.  Seems like a much better solution than changing the rules back and forth.  Of course, Rendo's website is actually built and operated by people who build commercial websites as a side-business as opposed to... whatever DAZ has.   

  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,562

    @3DIO not sure what you're referring to, since all recent figures seem to be wearing shorts (male) and at least bra/panties (female) with no nudity visible anywhere. Likely doesn't matter, seems the decision is made here.

  • ElorElor Posts: 3,678
    edited April 9

    Cybersox said:

    On a side note, Rendo just changed it's site preference settings to set your preferred viewing mode to one of three options: safe, mature, and adult.  Seems like a much better solution than changing the rules back and forth.  Of course, Rendo's website is actually built and operated by people who build commercial websites as a side-business as opposed to... whatever DAZ has.

    Their previous solution was better and it's too bad the new one doesn't simply offer a setting allowing to keep it instead of that slow and clunky system:

    1. products are completly hidden if they are deemed not compatible with your settings (just compare how many products from Rhiannon will be listed on her Rendo store if you have the filter set to Safe compared to the filter set to Mature: they are even around 5 products deemed Adult content) and there is no information about products being hidden due to our filter settings.

    2. some renders are deemed adult when all they are showing is a woman wearing a NON translucent swimsuit or underwear: check the Lizzy Shorts Set by Rhiannon with the filter set to mature and you'll see that the majority of the renders are hidden with the filter set to Mature and are only visible by switching to Adult (two clicks because they needs me to tell them that I'm an adult by checking a second checkbox each time indecision).

    Rhiannon's clothes are usually on the sexy side of things, but most if not all of the products hidden on Renderosity would not be hidden here and many pictures who are deemed to be Adult content would also not be hidden by Daz mature filters: the Lizzy set is less revealing that the Frankie PJs sold here and none of Frankie PJs's renders are hidden by Daz mature filters.

    Post edited by Elor on
  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147
    edited April 9

    @Torquinox
    If you mean all those recent characters with the huge eyes, perhaps they left out the nudity due to them being toon-like?

    Not sure to be honest.  Personally I'm just pleased to be able to see a full frontal of (right now for example) Elena 9 and Lianna 9 because I was planning to buy one of them, but without being able to see the full skin, I would not have remembered which one had the lighter coloured areola, and therefore would not have been prepared to purchase either of them.

    Thankfully, a full frontal is available for both characters.  I can clearly see that it was in fact Lianna 9 that has the lighter areola, and I will indeed purchase her.  That said, even after seeing her nude, she's not exactly ideal since she's a bit too tanned for what I had in mind.  But using the Diffuse Overlay parameter in careful moderation would lighten her skin and make her areola lighter at the same time (which is what I want).  Without the nudity, though, it would have been impossible to know and to come to an educated decision as to what I'm buying.

    The sale therefore would have been lost.

     

    Post edited by 3DIO on
  • TorquinoxTorquinox Posts: 4,562

    @3DIO I don't care about the bug-eyed characters or the shape-only characters that use the base skins. You referenced Elena 9 and Lianna 9. Those are characters from Feb 2025 and June 2024, respectively. I'm talking about recent characters including https://www.daz3d.com/eric-for-genesis-9. https://www.daz3d.com/aro-9, https://www.daz3d.com/nadine-9, https://www.daz3d.com/sigrid-9 and many more. It seems showing everything was a phase and the phase is over. 

  • 3DIO3DIO Posts: 147
    edited April 9

    You're right, it's not the news ones.  I went back through the store based on Daz Originals, and the last character found showing their birthday suit, was Eduardo 9.

    Whatever it is, I really hope they change it back.  Since being in this hobby, I've only ever purchased my Daz content from Daz.  But unless I can see the full texture of a character then I'm forced to shop elsewhere (at least for characters).  It really bothers me, because apart from the obvious, it would be the end of an era for me, really.  When I buy characters, it is sometimes for the whole character, sometimes just the morph, and sometimes just the skin texture.  So for very obvious reasons, I'm not paying for skin textures that I cannot examine prior to purchase.

    It took a while, but Daz did finally have it right prior to this.  They had a family-friendly store that had a professional and sensible level of information on show.

     

    Post edited by 3DIO on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 5,645

    Since I think it is unlikely that DAZ suddenly became all prudish, then, as others have suggested, it is quite likely the new policy is down to third party pressure. Could be a payment processor, or someone else. However it is odd that they stop any new nudity, even technical ones, but leave all the existing ones in the store. If this is really down to third party pressure, one would assume that would want the existing ones gone too.

  • CybersoxCybersox Posts: 9,639

    3DIO said:

    @Torquinox
    If you mean all those recent characters with the huge eyes, perhaps they left out the nudity due to them being toon-like?

    Not sure to be honest.  Personally I'm just pleased to be able to see a full frontal of (right now for example) Elena 9 and Lianna 9 because I was planning to buy one of them, but without being able to see the full skin, I would not have remembered which one had the lighter coloured areola, and therefore would not have been prepared to purchase either of them.

    Elena 9 is over a year old and Lianna 9 almost 2 yeasr old, so those promo images were made and released long before DAZ flipped the rules back. The question is whether all of the already published nude images will stay in the store or if there'll be a further purge.... some have posted that the images for older products won't be changed retroactively, though I've yet to see that posted by anyone who I'd judge to be in a position to say so with real authority.    

  • WolfwoodWolfwood Posts: 923

    Elor said:

    Cybersox said:

    On a side note, Rendo just changed it's site preference settings to set your preferred viewing mode to one of three options: safe, mature, and adult.  Seems like a much better solution than changing the rules back and forth.  Of course, Rendo's website is actually built and operated by people who build commercial websites as a side-business as opposed to... whatever DAZ has.

    Their previous solution was better and it's too bad the new one doesn't simply offer a setting allowing to keep it instead of that slow and clunky system:

    1. products are completly hidden if they are deemed not compatible with your settings (just compare how many products from Rhiannon will be listed on her Rendo store if you have the filter set to Safe compared to the filter set to Mature: they are even around 5 products deemed Adult content) and there is no information about products being hidden due to our filter settings.

    2. some renders are deemed adult when all they are showing is a woman wearing a NON translucent swimsuit or underwear: check the Lizzy Shorts Set by Rhiannon with the filter set to mature and you'll see that the majority of the renders are hidden with the filter set to Mature and are only visible by switching to Adult (two clicks because they needs me to tell them that I'm an adult by checking a second checkbox each time indecision).

    Rhiannon's clothes are usually on the sexy side of things, but most if not all of the products hidden on Renderosity would not be hidden here and many pictures who are deemed to be Adult content would also not be hidden by Daz mature filters: the Lizzy set is less revealing that the Frankie PJs sold here and none of Frankie PJs's renders are hidden by Daz mature filters.

    Wow, thanks for pointing that out. I was still seeing the usual picture warning here and there so i thought the new 'site options' was to remove the warning of pictures. But it is indeed obscuring products. Rhiannon store went from 2 pages on safe to 5 on mature or adult.

    While i would agree that people should have the option to opt out of certain products/vendors it should be done more carefully.

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