I Give Up! I Can't Keep Track of this Anymore.
Fauvist
Posts: 2,290
in The Commons
There are so many DAZ figures and so many characters for the figures and so many hairs and clothes for the figures with so many restrictions and special considerations for making any of it work with any of it that I throw up my hands and just don't buy any of the new stuff. I can't keep track of what UV set every character is designed for, or how to put clothes on something, or which shoes will fit which generation of figures.
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I stick with Genesis 1. I can use Genesis 2 products on it, and Generation 2-4 products on it. Plenty of resources in the older products to keep me busy.
I've never bene a fan of canned characters, and only ever buy them when they're dirt cheap just for the skin textures.. and with Genesis 1 being my penultimate figure, Gen 1 and Generation 4 textures are pretty much all I look through.
Somebody could everyone an invaluable service if they would take every different DAZ figure and line them up next to each other in one render so everyone can see how they compare to each other.
You mean the base figures, or each of the canned characters? Or maybe the base figure with all of it's canned characters standing next to it? If the latter, Genesis 1 would blow all of the other figures out of the water, as it has far too many possibilities....
I don't know anymore - now with charcters being based on characters based on a base figure. I'd like to see something like, all the teen DAZ figures together, not necessarily the characters based on each of them - so I can see the difference in their body proportions. Like, teen Josie #whatever standing next to the other generations of Teen Josie. The differences between Callie and Kieko and Aiko #1-6 and Giselle and Yasbou and Girl #1-7.
All you need to know is V4, M4, genesis1, genesis female 2, genesis male 2, and genesis female 3. Everything else are just addons for these base figures. yeah, the additional UV maps is a pain and why I avoid any of the addon characters since i can come close with the base morph sets. In most cases here at DAZ, it will state in the descirption whether it uses a special UV set or the base one.
This has all become a victim of what I call the "It's only just one more thing to know" syndrome. Or "the straw that broke the camel's back", or "how fast can you bail?" syndromes. At some point newer is no longer better nor any more fun. Is the iPhoneN+1 really an improvement over the iPhoneN or does Apple just need an infusion of cash? DAZ is in a similar predicament and seems to have to rely on newness to stay afloat. Personally I still buy the same tasteless cereal I ate for breakfast 60 years ago.
why don't u use smart content? it sorts everything for you based upon what figure you are using.
Plus, if you are using DIM to install, it puts everything into the right figures folder. easy peasy.
This is very true. You only need to select the figure you want to use, then only the compatible items are shown. You don't have to worry about whether or not a certain hair will work with the figure. If it won't, it simply won't be listed.
So, something like this? Male Genesis Comparisons
Yes... Exactly... I have had a hard time getting interested in any of the new character series... It's not exactly confusing, but I hate finding I need something I don't have, or bought something I don't need. Since I don't have cash shooting out my ears every time I sneeze, I hold off buying stuff until I'm sure about it worth or value.
I really liked when there was V4 & M4 and you got the ++ morphs and everything branched off of that... It was simple, there were a few additional specialty morphs like the creature morphs or muscle morphs, but that made sense too... This new way I just don't really follow... Why make the customers have to learn more to keep up, when the software itself is getting more complicated... It seems like you step away from the software for a short while and you are left in the dust.
I don't know if this is all for a lack of a good plan, or there is some good plan I'm just not getting, but it really flies in the face of good design/engineering principals... There you have the underlying concept that the best ideas remove steps, or by their nature are easier to use and understand... Do the best with fewer, better parts (though in real life many projects fall well short of that, it's often not the fault of the designers, more so the decision makers)... More often than not the apparent overriding force seems to be marketing, where one of the trending fads is to confuse the f$$k out of the customers so they buy blindly.
But that's just my cranky opinion.
the pro bits in the bundle for pros only
Sort of like that - although I don't understand why Genesis Hiro 5 is so huge compared to Genesis Base, or why Genesis Freak 5 is twice as big as Freak 3, or where Freak 4 is. Does Genesis Hiro 5 really show up as a giant in the scene?
smart content is terrible. or as bad as who set up the data. I never use it. but I get along fine.
Well, I did this. Genesis 2 Female Figures. You can compare the body proportions, but not the scale. LET ME KNOW IF I FORGOT ANYONE.
Genesis 1 Female Figures.
I have the urge but not the cash nor the time to invest in every single new bit that comes out. Right now I think all I have from the newest crop is Victoria 7 ... Yup, that's it. I did buy the Gen 7 morph pack so I have all those shapes too. I think that's good for now. I have my own style for morphs that I create in ZBrush and quite frankly I've been using the Hivewire figures more as they are not so overly complicated. I like the DAZ figures just fine, I think they are technically very nice and esthetically pleasing to the eye but yea, every time you turn around BAM a new figure with a threesome of new packs .......... just can't afford it and don't have time to play with all of it. I do invest in things like iRay shaders and light sets and stuff like that.
i'm not big on the shape of the week either. I like making characters, so i get morph kits to make my own. The occasional flagship shape is worth getting whent hey are super special to you, but you can skip a lot of stuff and still have more than you could ever need. For the most part.
Looking through the Genesis 2 Female Figures I realize there's no rhyme or reason to figures any more. There's a new bunch that just say they're based on Genesis 2 Female, and they all have different body proportions.
Well in honestly that is the good part of Genesis. If you want my opinion do this. Ignore all the named figures. Just use Genesis 2 Female (or Genesis 1 if you want). Just get some generic morph packs.
Make characters, buy a few skins as you need. No need to get overwhelmed. Buy what you need, as you need it. Much easier that way.
And another thing about installing all these characters and their morphs is that my G2F parameters dial is now as long as a wet weekend. Related morphs are not even grouped together and I can't find anything anymore... sob.
*That* is actually something that I wish DAZ would do something about. It's not just characters but purchased morphs as well.
Same with surfaces. I can't group purchased materials and textures by product without going to the Content Library... which makes no sense at all considering Smart Content clearly shows grouping capabilities already.
Callie 6
Ninive 6
Monique 6
I have, sometimes against my better judgement, followed the progression from Generation 3 through to Genesis 2 Female but have stopped there. I don't use G2M or any Genesis 3 content. I could see improvements in G2F over Genesis but they weren't huge so I waited long enough to pick them up at almost give-away prices, including a few of the main characters like Olympia (my favourite), etc. But I can't find any justification from looking at comparison renders for buying a whole new set of characters, clothing and add-ons for Genesis 3 - not even at sale prices. Indeed, there are some here who comment that she is a retrograde step.
But DAZ have a clever marketing policy which sometimes reminds me of a famous P T Barnum quote. People do seem to have oodles of cash sitting around. For example, I thought Skyler was different enough from the other G2F characters to be worth buying but I waited for the sale and bought her yesterday at 40% discount. Yet there are people who buy G2F Skyler and her G3F clone and accompanying bundles for each. Not only that but an almost identical character appears and they buy that too. I don't blame the vendors and I appreciate their skills but I just wish that DAZ would put more investment into technology so that we could have clothes that drape better (not Optitex though) or a built-in morph toolbox instead of struggling with the ancient Hexagon or the far-too-complex Blender (or spending yet more on ZBrush, etc.).
Guilty as charged. I have both the G2F and G3F versions of Skyler but not without reason. Simply put, though they're the same character, the fact that they're on different base figures means they're compatible with different items. On Genesis 2 I have geografts like the snake tail and horns which would otherwise be incompatible with Genesis 3. I have Genesis 1 outfits which would otherwise look horrible if I autofit them across two generations. Looking at it the other way around, Genesis 3 is simply better rigged and more expressive, so I can give her more personality than I could using Genesis.
I'll probably do the same for the new girl Rayn too.
Still, I can see the arguments and they're sound ones. The best way to look at it is that the options are there for the people who want them. There's no forced upgrades, and Daz Studio remains fully compatible all the way back to Generation 1 Victoria, if you're that way inclined. That they've been able to do this and give us lots of new toys to play with is a pretty impressive feat in my books, and is the main reason I switched from Poser to Daz Studio.
I love Poser, but they're still still playing in the sandpit by comparison. Technology moves on, and it's just a shame they haven't done likewise. That said, it still has the advantage when it comes to physics. I think a lot of us want a new cloth draping option in Daz Studio, but I suspect part of Daz's contract with Optitex prohibits them designing their own or we would probably have seen it by now.
I think the reason we have not seen a new cloth engine in DAZ Studio is not down to contracts, as the simple fact that this is an extremely difficult programming task, and I do not think DAZ employs that many programmers. The developers it does have are likely working on testing the new tech associated with iRay, Genesis 3 etc, and would not have the time to do something as complex as a bullet/cloth engine. The only option would be to buy in a 3rd party solution, but DAZ might believe that they would not get the cost back through sales of dynamic items.
I have read that nVidia have a physics solution, and whilst I know this would annoy the AMD/ATI crowd, I personally would like to see this added to studio. Some physics simulations can take some time to do, so using a GPU to help would be great.
Well, Havos, I can see where you are coming from but I'd make the following comments. DAZ did buy a 3rd Party solution when it comes to morph creation but they let it stagnate (Hexagon). I can't use it because it crashes so frequently on my Mac so I muddle along with Blender (great program but requiring a big commitment to learning the complexities). NVidia will be delighted that DAZ has chosen to go with a dedicated manufacturer for their physical render engine. Again, as a Mac user, it is of no benefit to me (the claims about fast CPU renders are not real for me). I would rather have seen them enter into a working relationship with Paolo to develop Reality. Generally, the PC users with powerful GPU cards will be happy, the rest can twiddle their thumbs while they look on.
I think the biggest problem with DAZ's move to an nVidia solution for its renderer is the lack of options for MAC users, and whilst I believe MAC users are only around 10% of the overall desktop users (correct me if I am wrong on this), I suspect they are a much bigger percentage (maybe 30%, I am guessing) of users of 3D apps like Studio, as MAC has always been strong in the graphics/design sectors. I have a mac mini myself, which I need to create the IOS version of our games, but I use a Windows box for all my graphics work. I was fortunate that iRay appeared just as I was upgrading my PC, so I ensured the new box had a decent nVidia card.
I have always suspected DAZ was forced to take Hexagon as part of the Carrara deal which would explain why it gets so little attention. My take on the Genesis generations. Genesis 1 (or Classic as I like to call it) is still great for creatures and goons but its gender neutral weight mapping and limited joint range didn't make it a good figure for human shapes. The Genesis 2s have gender specific weight mapping and realistic joint limits that can even be exceeded a bit for extreme poses with out breaking the mesh. Their morph packs allow for a wide variety of body shapes that look acceptable but there are certain shapes were the body doesn't 'blend' as well as I would like. For those difficult shapes the add-on characters can provide a better starter base, only by playing with the morphs will you be able to determine if you need or want an add-on. Genesis 3 has a new weight mapping and rigging system and has added a face rig so bending is just as good and is some place better than the Genesis 2s. The face rig means we no longer have to rely on the built-in expression morphs if we don't like them. Genesis 3 has a very different and cleaner mesh topology that I find fixes many of the shape blend issues I found with Genesis 2 Female so I will be less inclined to buy add-ons if I don't think they bring anything special.
Do not worry about the UV sets. The DAZ Originals "intermediate" figures like Victoria 7, Karen 7, Josie 7, and Eva 7 all have their own UVs, but anything based off of the intermediate characters (like EJ Tatijana, FWSA Adaline HD, Summer off Victoria 7, or Amandla and FWSA Kimmy HD off Josie 7) all drop right back to the original Genesis 3 female UVs. Genesis 2 was mostly this way, too. A few odd characters used Victoria 6 UVs (and a few other odd Genesis characters used Victoria 5 UVs, go figure) but characters based n other intermediates like Olympia 6 don't seem to use the intermediate UVs, it's right back to either G2F or V6.
The morphs are a bit bigger problem, they typically use the intermediate character at some low setting (typically 30-50%) so if you don't have V7, EJ Tatijana is going to look a little strange.
DAZ didn't have much choice in the matter. I doubt this move to IRAY happened overnight. Figure 6-12 months before the first Studio 4.8 public build hit, a good year ago. What was the state of OpenCL accelerated unbiased rndering at the time? (heck, what was the state of OpenCL biased rendering at the time? What was the state of OpenCL itself at the time?) I tried making LuxRender work on my OpenCL AMD with exported jobs, and got nothing useful. Octane has been talking OpenCL for 6 months, but hasn't launched yet.
I suppose they could have tried Cycles, but if you look at the OpenCL support for that, you see a lot less cards with a simple "works" than cards noting "works, but not all features", "crashes", "works, but CUDA is faster", or "works, but CPU is faster".
It's not the fault of the Octane, Blender, LuxRender, etc. teams. It's pure and simple the state of OpenCL compared to CUDA 18 months ago, and, of course, the state of OpenCL compared to CUDA today. This is something you see across the whole industry: video editing, image processing, 3D modelling, rendering, scientific analysis, you name it, CUDA just works better (when OpenCL can trouble itself to work at all).
Apple has basically screwed over the high end graphics community. You should see the sort of things that people put together to make Mac Pros do GPU acceleration. Get a Thunderbolt to PCIE converter, an enclosure, a power supply, and a good NVidia board and stick that monstrosity next to your pretty over-styled Mac Pro. I love, love, love the idea of OpenCL, but unless Nvidia or Apple pumps some big $ into it, it's not going to match the optimized commercial product like CUDA.