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That's the thing! Iray has changed dramatically in the past few years, isn't it possible that with all the changes made, they broke the compatibility for new generations of hardware. There was a quote saying (at the time) that future generations of GPUs would work with Iray without needing an update at all. You may recall that the 4000 series worked with Iray right out of the box, no updates were needed to accomplish this. The 4000 series was quite different from 3000, so you cannot claim it is because the architectures are the same. Thus I am wondering if anybody has actually tried testing the version of Iray we had when the 4090 released with the 5000 series.
Maybe it doesn't work, but wouldn't it be wild if it did? I think it is worth a shot for the people who keep their old EXEs of DS. But I do not have a 5000 series to test. I think there is a chance it actually works.
After all...Iray development has broken a whole of things the past couple of years, right? If someone owns a 5000 series card, why not give it a try? You can't use your card anyway, there is no reason not to try.
Yes, the releae of RTX was a major change that required Iray to be completely reworked to make use of the new ray tracing cores. Then the 3000 series shipped and there was a wait for support. The 4000 series came and surprised everybody by working immediately with just a driver update. However, it was not fully utilized, and the Iray Dev team acknowledged this. It took a while, but the update to optimze for Lovelace eventually came.
Now at some point I recall a statement around this time frame that Iray was compiled in a way to allow it to function with new architectures in some capacity, even if not optimized (such as the 4000 series.) I cannot remember if was during during Ampere or Lovelace launch. So I was just hoping that whichever Iray this was, perhaps there was a chance it would with Blackwell.
At any rate, now that the 5060ti has released, we have potentially the cheapest 16gb available for rendering if it stays close to MSRP. It has a better chance than the rest of the lineup of doing so, because 60 class cards are not usually scalped that much. Microcenter has 5060tis in stock as I type, and the card came out roughly 48 hours ago. They are in the ~$500 range, true, but they are indeed unsold. It is significantly harder to scalp something that isn't selling out! So if they can remain on store shelves, prices may adjust and slip back below $500. With a GPU that is actually obtainable by normal people, it is vital that DS5 (or whatever it takes) to make Blackwell work with Iray is released as soon as possible.
Owner of a 5090 here. I can say with absolute certainty the 50XX series does not work with IRAY atm. Tried it out and the render would not run without some ability to fall back on my CPU. Didn't even know this was a thing before I upgraded, so now I am stuck until Daz decides to update.
Gotta say, this whole thing and the utter lack of transparency/warning from Daz themselves is rather off-putting. Never been so tempted to go shopping for another program to pour myself into and ditch Daz Studio. There really should have been a communication from Daz that upgrading right now is pointless. Send us something in an email besides yet another ad for a sale, or post something on the homepage of the site, but no. We get to find out either by tripping over the answer buried in forum posts such as this or after we are thousands in the hole for a heavy paperweight, because Daz couldn't be bothered to say. Which, as far as failings go, is all the more ergregious, since their whole render engine is hitched to Nvidia cards to begin with. So it's not like Daz themselves didn't have some idea as to the updated architecture that was coming.
Probably the wrong place to ask but wouldn't a new Studio and Iray version cause compatibility issues for older products. I still remember a minor update that broke old products like ghostlights.
We've been warned that the new version will require a recompile of all scripts or plugins (one of them, I don't remember which), meaning that products for which the creator is no longer alive will probably not be available for the newer version.
(Crawling out from under rock)
So, is it the official word that Daz will not have 50xx support till DS5, and we have no ETA for that? There's no plan to add support in DS4?
(Crawls back under rock to hide)
DS2025 has appeared in DIM, suggesting that it's coming soon, but until then, you are correct that 50X0 cards won't work in DS.
..."Daz soon?"
All plugins will at minimum need to be recompiled since the SDK will change, and there might be more modifications needed depending on the plugin.
Content itself will likely still work fine.
There were plans to add support in DS4 initially, unfortunately it seems that Nvidia had to make some technical changes in the latest versions of Iray which are not compatible with DS4 code base.
So integration of a version of Iray which supports 50xx cards requires a major change to the code base, and so a new major version of DS.
was thinking, couldn't they just release a D|S5 Lite?
basically a render engine that loads DAZ scenes?
... and gives Mac users access to Filament and Filatoon? That was my suggestion a little while ago. Could they?
Probably, but I think that they're probably close enough to a full release that waiting a little bit longer would remove the hassle of having two versions to support.
At the very least, they'll probably release a beta for affected card users to test... and hopefully Mac users.
Some scripts too, from what we have been told - from notes we were sent in response to forum queries it seems that the scripting architecture has changed, so certain safish practices in the current version may throw errors in the new version.
In fact Daz did add iray 2024.0 to a private build (you can see it in the change log) but it had bugs and had to be removed (which you can also see in the change log). 2024.1 was then incompatible with DS 4.x.x.x. So Daz was expecting to be able to provide 50x0 support in DS 4..x.x.x at least up to the point at which they removed 2024.0.
It is mentioned in the KLnown Issus section of the announcement thread at the top of the DS forum. I am told it was also mentioned in social media posts and a blog, and that there was indeed an email. A lot of us cautioned in advance that support was by no means guaranteed on launch for the 50x0 cards, based on past history. Unfortunately it is very hard to keep a mental index of info like this until it affects you, which may be after the posts were fresh.
As well as this dedicated thread that turned into the 5xxx series cards that someone started that has been mostly on the front page since January, where it discussed at length. It could've been missed easy, however, because the title doesn't mention "Support" and only mentioned the 5090 in the title.
The only place the Known Issue listing appears is in the General Release announcement. It's not in the highlights, and it's not in the NVIDIA Iray announcement. Seriously, something like this that threatens the very business model of Daz should have warranted an email blast to all registered customers regardless of email preferences. I unsubscribed from the marketing emails, because I was getting too many emails. I don't follow Daz on social media. A customer network wide blast of this would have worked better, IMO.
I acknowledged that the information is in the forums. My point is that likely half of the customer base, maybe more, likely seldom, if ever, look in the forums for anything beyond troubleshooting. Which is how I discovered the issue *after* upgrading due to there being no communication from Daz themselves on the site. I don't involve myself with social media, let alone follow Daz in particular. Saying that there was a nebulous blog *somewhere* in the greater expanse of the internet does little to remedy the situation either. As for the claim of an email, I look at every last one that is sent to me by Daz; cause I have thousands invested in the program and am always seeking another deal. Never seen such an email pass by my account once. Bearing in mind, a singular email that might have contained a footnote in the fine print that there was an issue with updating your hardware still isn't a solution. Considering I am far from the only one who got buyers remorse for finding out after the fact, unless I see a screenshot produced I am going to doubt the validity of that claim.
Even disregarding all that, I am not asking Daz to move mountains here. A simple header at the top of the shop page would have silenced my criticism outright. How long would that take? How difficult would that really be? When a company ties their entire program to the existence of another, I don't think it is too far fetched an expectation that either the products work in tandem as intended at launch or a strong enough effort be made to inform the customer should it not. A blog post or a tweet buried somewhere is not it.
Anyone comtemplating a major computer purchase or upgrade should always check to see if their essential software – regardless of which software it is – will work with their upgrades. The forums are full of people checking to see if DAZ Studio will work with their planned system changes.
I've watched this question asked literally hundreds of times over the years, and in the very few times that DAZ is unable to confirm whether the questioner's upgrades will work, other users respond in number. Fact is, fellow users usually beat DAZ to the punch.
I, personally, own take responsibility for my upgrade process and I feel it's up to me to make sure any important software will work with my planned changes.
The issues with the latest nViidia card is only the latest issue, every week or so multiple people ask why their latest driver update isn't working or they ask why things aren't working and suggestions -- like rolling back their driver -- are posted; I don't expect DAZ to email me everytime they discover that this or that driver will cause issues, or when every iteration of Windows or MacOS causes some problems. As an nVidia card owner for years, you could just as easily blame nVidia for not telling you what problems might arise with their new cards... I believe the information is available on their website.
I understand the frustration of not having your GPU, I *really* do (not having my GPU work with DAZ Studio for years) but for you, it's temporary. There will be an upgrade, and I believe it will be sooner rather than later, so hang in there.
The forums are indeed full of people looking for advice on system specs, yes. However, suggesting that someone asking if X RAM or Y GPU is powerful enough to run the program is equal to this issue is a little disingenuous. As is drawing a parallel to driver updates. Driver updates happen roughly once a month or so. A new generation of GPUs happens every 2-3 years? Apples and oranges.
Daz and their render engine isn't tied to Windows or Mac. It is however adjoined at the hip to Nvidia. So, yes, the situation is quite different there as well. As for Nvidia themselves, they are partnered with Daz, but Daz runs / updates / maintains the program. So buck stops with them in the end. My frustration has nothing really to do with the fact I am having to wait for the update. I capable of understanding that programs need updates sometimes and that they can take time. My only grievance is with the lack of transparency or the expectation that everyone should read through X amount of forum posts to arrive at an answer that, ultimately, Daz could have conveyed to its users far easier.
So I would ask you, or anyone else who might have an answer, what would be so difficult / wrong with posting a simple warning atop the shop page? Not even asking for an exact ETA on a fix or anything of the sort. Just a short message to serve as a warning to those who might be new to this (cause not everyone knows this is a common thing when a new generation of GPUs releases). You could even have a link in the warning to forum posts such as this very thread. As far as I can see, there would be zero downsides and next to no time investment on Daz to implement such a measure.
There have been people who asked about the new nVidia cards and were advised about the situation before they bought, it's not always questions about speed bumps; Apple updates their OS annually, and every year Mac users ask if they should update or if there are known issues. So, GPUs every 2-3 years, Apple OSs every year, not seeing "apples and oranges" there... okay, maybe Apples and nVidias. The fact that these GPU updates only happen every 2-3 years simply means it's more important to do your homework first.
There is no "lack of transparency"; if you thought there might be an issue with an "every 2-3 years" GPU update, you could ask DAZ or in the forums and you'd be told, no one's hiding anything.
nVidia does list on their site that DAZ Studio is currently incompatible, but that total transparency didn't make any difference because most people don't check, just like most people might not check on the DAZ "front page" to see if their new card will work. You, for example, didn't check there, even though it's on the nVidia site.
https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5619/kw/daz%20studio/session/L3RpbWUvMTc0NTIwODQ3MS9nZW4vMTc0NTIwODQ3MS9zaWQvZlVFeVlQMEozYjZENGFOa3c3aDd2RzlzSHJ2bzlDRkk3OVZrNzJCNTBHMWd1cTNuJTdFa2JXZ2Z5ZUNXM252bFlJbTBMTm5FS2pDOFZKZm1VUnBUSVZSb2NXUnF0YnI5RWIlN0UyVEZ6STV5dWxaNmt0R20yMldqcEgxUSUyMSUyMQ%3D%3D
I agree with you that it wouldn't take that much effort to put a warning up that most people won't see -- you, yourself point out that only a small percentage of DAZ Studio users visit the forums, I would wager that people who don't visit the forums might not visit the store regualrly enough to see the note before updating their cards.
Anyone making a major investment or update should take the time to do their homework first, too.
If you have to do "homework" just to get a simple yes/no answer like "Does the 5090 work with Daz Studio?", can't really say there's no lack of transparency. The forum search is a complete cluttered mess, and the search functionality on their store is just as broken. Take this recent example: Daz released their official character "Chloe 9," and if you search for "chloe 9" in the store's search tool, it doesn’t even show up (try it out for yourself). Instead, you have to Google "chloe 9 daz3d" just to find their own product. Daz3D’s website has been broken with search functionality for years. The fact that you can’t find key information or products using their own tools is a major problem. Unless you are a daily user on the forums keeping up to date all the time, good luck finding information with ease.
For something as critical as GPU compatibility with a rendering application like DAZ Studio, this should be communicated officially and clearly from someone working at Daz—especially when they know a highly desired GPU that will not work with their product is being released. People shouldn't have to spend time hunting for basic compatibility information. It wouldnt hurt to flash a banner on the homepage warning people about the new GPU release.
Also, when some people buy a new GPU, it’s usually for more than just Daz3D—they’re also using it for gaming and other applications. Typically with most modern applications and games, GPU compatibility isn’t an issue when upgrading to a new GPU. So its easy for many people to overlook something like this.
I repeat myself, Apple / Mac has nothing to do with Daz. Nvidia and Daz are literally inseperable if you want to use Iray. I don't expect Daz to account for every action / update Apple might make to their OS, because they have nothing to do with one another. If you can't acknowledge there is a very real difference between those two, you are just arguing in bad faith.
I didn't know there would be an issue until after the fact. Again, I made the assumption that Daz would always be compatible with Nvidia cards; because the program is reliant on them entirely. Obviously an incorrect assumption on my part, but I am far from the most technically savy individual when it comes to the interactions between hardware and software. I also know I am not the only one. Literally all I am advocating for is just a pinch more due diligence on Daz's part. Something that can only make them look better for next to no effort.
Where do you think the majority of the site traffic is? On the store or in the forums? I would happily wager it is the store's front page that gets a majority of the traffic versus all else. As for Nvidia's post, all this demonstrates to me is that Nvidia themselves went the extra mile of making an official post. If they can do it, why can't Daz? Keep in mind this conversation is taking place within a vaguely titled forum post "Nvidia 5090". Not an offical post, not in a sticky thread, not even in the main Daz Studio Discussions, but a regular post hidden under Commons. That is what I mean by lack of transparency. Beacause it is not the responsibility of Nvidia or even our fellow forum lurkers to inform us on Daz's lack of support for the 50XX. It is Daz's responsibility to their customers.
What are you even basing that on? Speaking from experience, I visit the store almost everyday. I can count on both hands and two toes the number of times over the years I have ever even glanced at the forums. Most of those visits have pertained entirely to this situation. Even were that true, it might spare a customer making an investment on products that they can't use for an unknown amount of time. Or if they did so, they do so knowing the information beforehand. I don't see how you or anyone else benefits from arguing against the idea that Daz's communication on the matter could be better. If there was some high cost, or if I was demanding answers as to "how long", I would get it, but there isn't and I am not. You are advocating for less communication, strictly because you don't think it would be useful? Because you genuinely believe having that warning on the front page would have no impact on the matter?
True. I can fully agree I should have done more research into the matter. Just as Daz should have made more of an effort to make its customers aware based on the fact that it is their product that is rendered useless because of a partnership they made willingly with Nvidia. I'm not arguing that Daz owes me for the purchase price of a GPU. I am simply asking for more communication in the future.
Way I see it... yes, I'm aware of the issue, but should my current computer die, I don't have much of an option other than to get a 50xx equiped replacement. If I can't render in Studio, I'll form the habit of taking things into Blender a lot more than I do now. I would also stop purchasing new content at that point at least until the problem is resolved. I might not return to buy more though, once I habitually use Blender for DAZ content.
1. By "Do your homework", I meant, simply, check to see if your upgrade will work with the programs you feel are important to you, nothing more, nothing less. DAZ Studio, games, work applications, or anything that's important to you. You don't have to, of course, but if you don't, that's on you. We'll have to agree to disagree.
2. If you buy a new computer *and* get the new nVidia cards, you won't be able to run iRay. You will be able to run DAZ Studio and render using OpenGL, 3DL and I assume Filament and Filatoon?
3. From November, 2020 new Macs were installed with Big Sur. That meant if you bought a new Mac between November, 2020 and August, 2021 you couldn't run DAZ Studio. Not "iRay", "DAZ Studio. Not the same as buying a new video card and not being able to use iRay, it was far worse.
Buying a new nVidia card means not being able to use iRay, buying any Mac means not being able to use Filament or Filatoon. You may find it hard to believe, but for me Filament or Filatoon is far more important than iRay and I've been waiting for 4.5 years. I think our situations are similar, and we're both waiting for DAZ Studio 2025 to use the rendering engines we want to use, you obviously don't see it that way.
I'm not arguing in bad faith, nor arguing any further at all. I'm sorry you're not able to use iRay with your new video card, hopefully that will change in the next month or two.
Edited to add because I didn't fully read your reply, my apologies, and my bad:
I yield to your point that DAZ could have a banner running across every store page declaring that DAZ Studio doesn't support the latest nVidia cards, just as they could have a banner saying that Filament and Filatoon don't work on Macs and haven't for four years. For the record, they don't mention that Filament and Filatoon don't work on any Filament or Filatoon product pages either, but I digress. I still believe that many people would still be surprised when they bought a new card and couldn't use iRay because they bought a new card without thinking about it and stopped seeing the banner after getting used to it being there.
I do disagree with how iRay is "inseperable" from nVidia, as every Mac user can still use iRay; newer Macs even run iRay as fast or faster than people with old systems and older iRay cards (say, back when iRay was released and a little while after), or as fast as someone with newer cards but not enough video RAM who get knocked back to CPU rendering anyway. People still do gorgous iRay renders without nVidia cards or enough VRAM, PC or Mac (I'm certainly not one of them, but it is done).
My main point is that not all the blame should be on DAZ, that's all.
Edited to add the word "Mac".
There is indeed a difference between not being able to accelerate Iray with the GPU, which is the situation for 5000 series owners, and not being able to use Filament/Filatoon at all, as is the situation for Mac users.
Actually you will be able to render with Iray, it will simply not use the GPU so it will be much slower.
Thanks very much for the clarification, your help is always appreciated.
With no actual knowledge of the situation, I'm blindly optimistic that we'll see DAZ Studio 2025 by summer and we can all just go back to having fun.
Again, no inside knowledge, just optimism.
Maybe it's my old age catching up with me. I finally stopped using Macintosh computers because of the issues mentioned above, and more.
I switched to Windows computers but needed to get a better one that would handle DAZ Studio and iRay.
My $1,000 Hewlett Packard PC easily rendered every DAZ purchase I ever made. It only has a 1060 Video card.
Yeah I'd like to upgrade to something more powerful. Well, the current lack of support for the 50XX cards helps give me reason to delay that wish.
Nothing I say or do will cause things to change. So I just sit back and do something else.
For those who have missed it, the alpha of DS 2025 was just released today.
I'm not seeing it in DIM and as far as I can tell, I have every filter needed set right.
I suppose it's a shy release
It was ALLEGEDLY released. Nobody has yet independently verified the release.