New Daz-OptiTex Dynamic Clothes thread [Commercial]

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  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,256
    edited December 1969

    From what I can figure, Some props have the same problem some floor/ground props do. I solve it by creating a primitive following the shape of the aspect of the prop I want the cloth to react to. Then I just hide the primitive.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    From what I can figure, Some props have the same problem some floor/ground props do. I solve it by creating a primitive following the shape of the aspect of the prop I want the cloth to react to. Then I just hide the primitive.

    Drapping against a primitive plane did work, thanks. However that is fine when colliding with a flat surface, like a floor, but awkward with more complex props like the trailer I used in my demo above. I set the prop to subD, increased the subD level to a high value so that all the surfaces had many vertices, and then ran the drape. As before it just passed straight through most surfaces as if they were not there.

    I suspect the issue is more complex than just vertex density. For some reason many prop surfaces are ignored by the drape, maybe it is material or other settings I do not know, but I wish I knew how to persuade the control to treat the prop properly. I want to drape clothing across backs of chairs etc, and I will be left wondering if my chosen prop is dynamic compatible or not.

    Note I have also had problems colliding with people. I tried one drape of a prone figure covered by a sheet, and the sheet did not collied with the figures feet at all, although it worked perfectly against the rest of the figure, very odd.

    I don't have this problem in Poser's cloth room, though I confess I prefer the drape with DS's dynamic control. Also I use DS much more than Poser now, so I would prefer not to have to do all dynamic work in Poser.

    Basically I just wish I understood what is causing the problem, and how to avoid it.

  • kourraxspamkourraxspam Posts: 7
    edited December 1969

    Havos said:

    Drapping against a primitive plane did work, thanks. However that is fine when colliding with a flat surface, like a floor, but awkward with more complex props like the trailer I used in my demo above. I set the prop to subD, increased the subD level to a high value so that all the surfaces had many vertices, and then ran the drape. As before it just passed straight through most surfaces as if they were not there.

    I suspect the issue is more complex than just vertex density. For some reason many prop surfaces are ignored by the drape, maybe it is material or other settings I do not know, but I wish I knew how to persuade the control to treat the prop properly. I want to drape clothing across backs of chairs etc, and I will be left wondering if my chosen prop is dynamic compatible or not.

    The big thing I learned about dynamic cloth and prop interaction is that the normals matter the most, and a lot of freebie props out there have poor normals with things like one face in a surface pointing in the wrong direction.

    Rather than trying to fix the normals in all the props I have, I made a simple 8x8 checkerboard plane in Hexagon and set the normals all in one direction, then made a bunch of morphs to bend it to common shapes. It works well for things like chair edges. I also found an inside-out cylinder with normals pointing inward works great to cinch dynamic clothing under things like belts.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,256
    edited December 2014

    Havos said:

    Drapping against a primitive plane did work, thanks. However that is fine when colliding with a flat surface, like a floor, but awkward with more complex props like the trailer I used in my demo above. I set the prop to subD, increased the subD level to a high value so that all the surfaces had many vertices, and then ran the drape. As before it just passed straight through most surfaces as if they were not there.

    I suspect the issue is more complex than just vertex density. For some reason many prop surfaces are ignored by the drape, maybe it is material or other settings I do not know, but I wish I knew how to persuade the control to treat the prop properly. I want to drape clothing across backs of chairs etc, and I will be left wondering if my chosen prop is dynamic compatible or not.

    The big thing I learned about dynamic cloth and prop interaction is that the normals matter the most, and a lot of freebie props out there have poor normals with things like one face in a surface pointing in the wrong direction.

    Rather than trying to fix the normals in all the props I have, I made a simple 8x8 checkerboard plane in Hexagon and set the normals all in one direction, then made a bunch of morphs to bend it to common shapes. It works well for things like chair edges. I also found an inside-out cylinder with normals pointing inward works great to cinch dynamic clothing under things like belts.

    Any chance your morphing plane and inside-out cylinder are available for download anywhere? It would save me a lot of time compared to my method of loading a bunch of primitives to mimic the shape of the item I want to react with. For this scene I had to add and hide spheres and a cube to mimic the varying rock bulges and surface. Belts and vests and corsets also drive me nuts, lol.

    Oneside_Love_1_draft_-_zoom.jpg
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    Post edited by WillowRaven on
  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    Havos said:

    Drapping against a primitive plane did work, thanks. However that is fine when colliding with a flat surface, like a floor, but awkward with more complex props like the trailer I used in my demo above. I set the prop to subD, increased the subD level to a high value so that all the surfaces had many vertices, and then ran the drape. As before it just passed straight through most surfaces as if they were not there.

    I suspect the issue is more complex than just vertex density. For some reason many prop surfaces are ignored by the drape, maybe it is material or other settings I do not know, but I wish I knew how to persuade the control to treat the prop properly. I want to drape clothing across backs of chairs etc, and I will be left wondering if my chosen prop is dynamic compatible or not.

    The big thing I learned about dynamic cloth and prop interaction is that the normals matter the most, and a lot of freebie props out there have poor normals with things like one face in a surface pointing in the wrong direction.

    Rather than trying to fix the normals in all the props I have, I made a simple 8x8 checkerboard plane in Hexagon and set the normals all in one direction, then made a bunch of morphs to bend it to common shapes. It works well for things like chair edges. I also found an inside-out cylinder with normals pointing inward works great to cinch dynamic clothing under things like belts.

    Ok thanks for the info, I will look into this. Note the props I have had issues with so far were all commercial props available here, not freebies.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,256
    edited December 1969

    I am trying DS 4.8 for the first time and have downloaded and installed the latest clothing control, but I seem to be missing a step, because the usual control, like being able to control friction or weight, are not showing up.

    Ideas?

  • SimonJMSimonJM Posts: 5,852
    edited December 1969

    I am trying DS 4.8 for the first time and have downloaded and installed the latest clothing control, but I seem to be missing a step, because the usual control, like being able to control friction or weight, are not showing up.

    Ideas?


    Does it show up under Help> About installed Plugins ..?
    For me, it is listed - along woth the green 'plug' icon indicating loaded and licenced ok, and when I click on the entry in the list, see:

    Filename : C:/DAZ/DS4A-64/plugins/dzoptitexclothcontrol.dll
    Name : Dynamic Cloth Plugin - Control
    Author : DAZ 3D, Inc/OptiTex
    Version : 1.5.0.55

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,256
    edited December 1969

    It was showing a green plug, but for god measure, I reinstalled everything again and it seems to have righted itself.

    Now to test it ...

    On an even more important note, have you heard if there are to be any new products anytime soon?

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 12,036
    edited December 1969

    Has there been any activity on Martin's site? Last time I checked there was nothing new at all, free or pay.

    Dana

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,443
    edited December 1969

    I'm very frustrated that the one avenue for dynamic clothing Daz has is locked up with a company unwilling to actually produce any or let anyone else produce any for any reasonable price.

    On the flip side, most of the dynamic clothing I have covers most of what I want from it, so hey.

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,848
    edited December 1969

    I’m very frustrated that the one avenue for dynamic clothing Daz has is locked up with a company unwilling to actually produce any or let anyone else produce any for any reasonable price.

    Optitex may have produced clothing originally, I don't have any information going back that many years, but for the last 6 or so years an individual (he worked in the fashion industry for many years before he retired and that is why he owned the software) has done the clothing. He was not an Optitex employee. DAZ is only "locked up" so far as Optitex having been the only company willing to invest the time and money into creating a dynamic plug in for Studio thus far.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,443
    edited December 1969

    I was under the impression that Daz had an exclusive deal with Optitex for making dynamic clothing... am I mistaken?

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    I was under the impression that Daz had an exclusive deal with Optitex for making dynamic clothing... am I mistaken?

    What I know you can not do (as DAZ have said explicitly this is forbidden) is to turn existing non-dynamic clothing into a format the optitex plug in will read and work with (apparently this can be done, although I have never tried).

    As far as being in a position that another independent 3rd party can not bring out an alternative plug in, that I do not know. I remember no less than 2 different groups posted their intentions to do so, but that was months ago and we have heard nothing since.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Havos said:
    I was under the impression that Daz had an exclusive deal with Optitex for making dynamic clothing... am I mistaken?

    What I know you can not do (as DAZ have said explicitly this is forbidden) is to turn existing non-dynamic clothing into a format the optitex plug in will read and work with (apparently this can be done, although I have never tried).

    As far as being in a position that another independent 3rd party can not bring out an alternative plug in, that I do not know. I remember no less than 2 different groups posted their intentions to do so, but that was months ago and we have heard nothing since.

    You could, at one point...not sure if the 'loophole' was patched or not...and my interpretation of the DAZ position was...don't even think about distributing it, but we can't stop you from doing it to use for yourself (until we can stop this method from working...).

    Of course there is a way to get more legit dynamic clothing...pay the fashion design house price for the necessary software, but there is one very good reason why that hasn't happened, yet...nobody wants to put out that kind of money and take forever, if then, to recover the cost of the software (yes, it is a chicken/egg thing...but the fact is, sales of dynamics just don't support that kind of outlay...it's not an investment, it's a money pit). Now, if I ever win Powerball/MegaMillions/other major lottery, I'd be willing to eat the cost...but as they say, there's a better chance of getting struck by lightning.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    The cheaper option is to do your dynamic work in another piece of software, such as Poser. It is a pain not to be able to do the work in DS direct, but better than nothing. Once the cloth is posed in the other software, it can be exported/imported back into DS. The UV should be the same, so any material shaders should work fine on the new obj.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,256
    edited December 1969

    I have never been able to make heads or tales of Poser. So that's not an option for me.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    I have never been able to make heads or tales of Poser. So that's not an option for me.

    Clearly the program you know is always the best, although in reality Poser and DS are not really that different in what they do, or even how they do it. My switch from Poser to DS was relatively painless. However the poser cloth room (the thing used to pose dynamic cloth) works in much the same way as an amimated drape in DS's dynamic plug in. It does however have a lot more options, which may well intiminate some.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Havos said:
    The cheaper option is to do your dynamic work in another piece of software, such as Poser. It is a pain not to be able to do the work in DS direct, but better than nothing. Once the cloth is posed in the other software, it can be exported/imported back into DS. The UV should be the same, so any material shaders should work fine on the new obj.

    Which is fine for still shots...and I do that a lot with Blender.

  • WillowRavenWillowRaven Posts: 3,256
    edited December 1969

    Just the open scene baffles me, much less the cloth room, lol.

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,443
    edited December 1969

    I've been contemplating getting Poser at some point, for the free bundled content, if nothing else.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    I've been contemplating getting Poser at some point, for the free bundled content, if nothing else.

    I hardly ever use Poser's content, even in Poser. Indeed, even the most commited Poserites will rarely praise the included content. There is a bunch of human figures I never use (mostly very dated), and a bit of clothing for those figures. I used a few of its animals, but again these are poor quality by modern standards. There are very few props and scenes, an appartment, a medieval gatehouse, a tavern, and an old house, plus some vehicles.

    Having said that, if you can pick up a cheap copy of Poser 8 or 9 (the pro versions have the same content as the cheap ones) then its a fair amount of stuff for the dollar cost.

  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 12,036
    edited December 1969

    Havos said:
    I've been contemplating getting Poser at some point, for the free bundled content, if nothing else.

    I hardly ever use Poser's content, even in Poser. Indeed, even the most commited Poserites will rarely praise the included content. There is a bunch of human figures I never use (mostly very dated), and a bit of clothing for those figures. I used a few of its animals, but again these are poor quality by modern standards. There are very few props and scenes, an appartment, a medieval gatehouse, a tavern, and an old house, plus some vehicles.

    Having said that, if you can pick up a cheap copy of Poser 8 or 9 (the pro versions have the same content as the cheap ones) then its a fair amount of stuff for the dollar cost.

    Go for at least 9, as that can deal with the new weight-mapped figures and can use the Genesis and Genesis 2 figures with the help of the importer.

    I got Poser Pro 2010 a couple of years ago for cheap at amazon.com, but that is the equivalent of Poser 8, but with extra abilities or something. It can't do the weight-mapped things.

    Dana

  • KhoryKhory Posts: 3,848
    edited December 1969

    I’ve been contemplating getting Poser at some point, for the free bundled content, if nothing else.

    If your just looking to buy old content then your better off waiting till one of the market places has a deep discount sale and spend the money then.

  • HavosHavos Posts: 4,582
    edited December 1969

    If you are actually going to use Poser, rather than just its content, then I agree you should get at least 9, and even 10 if you want. However the only difference in the content between 8 and 10 is some extra figures, which will not work in DS because they are weight-mapped using Poser's weight-mapping. That means the extra content in the latter versions is unusable in DS.

  • mjc1016mjc1016 Posts: 15,001
    edited December 1969

    Here;'s some of my favorite Poser content...and about the only place to get Kitty any longer is the content...

    favPosercontent.png
    800 x 800 - 706K
  • DanaTADanaTA Posts: 12,036
    edited December 1969

    mjc1016 said:
    Here;'s some of my favorite Poser content...and about the only place to get Kitty any longer is the content...

    Rufus and the rest of the Plushies have gone into the Deep Freeze at RDNA. So I've picked up a few every now and then, really at a steal.

    Dana

  • Oso3DOso3D Posts: 14,443
    edited December 1969

    Which version is best for the clothing stuff?

  • jaebeajaebea Posts: 453
    edited December 1969

    I would actually like to see Daz bring in a physics engine like iClone's where you can make any clothing or hair object dynamic. Daz, are you listening?

  • MattymanxMattymanx Posts: 6,511
    edited June 2015

    jaebea said:
    I would actually like to see Daz bring in a physics engine like iClone's where you can make any clothing or hair object dynamic. Daz, are you listening?


    Make a feature request.

    https://helpdaz.zendesk.com/requests/new


    They WILL hear you there. Chances of seeing your post here is extremely limited

    Post edited by Mattymanx on
  • bighbigh Posts: 8,147
    edited December 1969

    jaebea said:
    I would actually like to see Daz bring in a physics engine like iClone's where you can make any clothing or hair object dynamic. Daz, are you listening?

    been waiting and waiting for them - like 10 years

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