Making Morphs for Legacy and converted TriAx figures - Lots of pictures

patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
edited June 2014 in Hexagon Discussion

Launched because of questions in other threads, thought it best that this be in its own topic thread.

Yes one can make morphs for the old legacy rigged figures such as dinosaurs. One does have to do some experimenting as not all figures were created exactly the same way.

One launches D/S first and loads the desired legacy figure to morph.
With it selected, shoot it over the Bridge to Hexagon.
No need to fuss about measurements, D/S knows what it is doing.
In Hexagon, do NOT move the figure anywhere. Just morph it.
Then shoot it back over the Bridge to D/S.
KEEP HEXAGON OPEN.
In D/S, make the morph.
Dial up the morph to "1".

IF the morph does what it is expected to do, then EXPORT out a .cr2 file to a place such as a subfolder, under a new name. [one really doesn't want to overwrite precious purchases].

IF the morph does NOT do what was expected, the in D/S delete the figure and load in a fresh one. Select it.
Return to Hexagon, hit the "validate" button, and once more Send the figure over the bridge to D/S.
Once again in D/S, make the morph BUT this time "reverse deformations". I also check off a few other options as per attached images.
Dial up the morph to "1".

Hopefully the morph is now looking as desired.
And if so, Export out a new .cr2 file.

I don't recommend 'testing' the new morphs with all those poses, etc until after the .cr2 export is made. One doesn't want to have other morphs also in with the new figure.

For the newer legacy figures, selecting Poser 7 is fine. If that doesn't produce desired results, redo the export using Poser 4.

Post edited by patience55 on
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Comments

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited May 2014

    And the last 2 for now.

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  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Now this is better for me to understand now thanks a lot patience I've been needing a pic tut like this to sort out the 2 dinosaurs I've been wanting to alter helps so much :)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Now this is better for me to understand now thanks a lot patience I've been needing a pic tut like this to sort out the 2 dinosaurs I've been wanting to alter helps so much :)

    You're quite welcome.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,243
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience :)

    When I send back to DS, I don't get that Morph Loader Pro dialogue with all the options you show - just a very simple one. The morph works well in the scene, but does not save in the new .cr2. It does make a morph channel - seen in Carrara, but no morph sliders.

    Tried Poser 9, 7 and 4.

    How do you get that extensive dialogue?

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    Roygee May need setting about ds 4, preference I think..
    like my pic,,

    then thank you patience,, though I do not hope to play with cr2 many.
    and ,, As patient mentioned above,, it work usually,,
    (but I did not expect cr2 export can save morph too ^^ thank you)

    but about some special figure (cr2 and triax figures),, you need more setting^^;

    then if you have problem,, you may better check root node. and hidden ERC morphs .

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  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited May 2014

    Hi Patience I may sound a bit dumb asking you this lol when you said do move model in hexagon do I just send the model back to daz straight away without any alterfications as you said just morph it I thought I can just shrink the model to correct size in hex which I'm guessing is stil morphing isn't it and then send it back to daz? Sorry about all these questions I'm autistic you see and need clear answers about things plus the pic tut are so much easier for me to follow as I'm a visual learner. With the pics you've sent on here I'm clear on them just this little part I'm confused with.

    Chears, Ian.

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Yes, to the Preferences setting ... needs to be "show advanced options". One can reset those options "on the fly" BEFORE having Hexagon send the item over to make the morph.

    And Yes, exporting out the new .cr2 does save the morph. One has to load the new .cr2 figure to use it.
    It is not saved to the old figure.
    I did not check it in Carrara ... I will do that.
    I know in D/S I dialed the morph to "1" and then did the export. In D/S3 one had to have the morphs dialed in or D/S3 would not find anything to morph and save nothing of it.
    {For D/S4.x with the triax morphs one must dial those to '0' before saving the morph otherwise the figure will load with it 'on'.}

    btw - unless this is being to one's very own figures, one can NOT redistribute these new .cr2 files.

    I'm not into twigging nodes, rods or anything else for legacy morphs lol ...
    The purpose of legacy morphs is to "add a little something" to an existing figure.
    If one has morphed it way out of proportion to the existing rigging, well, one would have to use the Joint Editor and fix the rigging. Then export out the .cr2 again.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience I may sound a bit dumb asking you this lol when you said do move model in hexagon do I just send the model back to daz straight away without any alterfications as you said just morph it I thought I can just shrink the model to correct size in hex which I'm guessing is stil morphing isn't it and then send it back to daz? Sorry about all these questions I'm autistic you see and need clear answers about things plus the pic tut are so much easier for me to follow as I'm a visual learner. With the pics you've sent on here I'm clear on them just this little part I'm confused with.

    Chears, Ian.

    It is better to ask questions than not when needing more information. This is what the forums are for ;-)

    When you are In D/S and you send 'over the Bridge' to Hexagon ANY figure, it is going to land in there as a very small item. Do NOT resize it.

    Just get in close to the figure and move, push, pull ... "lines, dots, or face normals" around.
    "Validate".
    Be sure the item is selected, send it over the Bridge back to D/S.

    With regards to making morphs, D/S and Hexagon have already been programmed to use the correct measurements. We do not need to worry about those.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    Hi Patience :)

    When I send back to DS, I don't get that Morph Loader Pro dialogue with all the options you show - just a very simple one. The morph works well in the scene, but does not save in the new .cr2. It does make a morph channel - seen in Carrara, but no morph sliders.

    Tried Poser 9, 7 and 4.

    How do you get that extensive dialogue?

    The two figures I morphed both worked in PP12 and Carrara 8.1.1
    The "body" [main file] might have to be selected, and the morph dials were under Morph Loader.
    I will say that looking for a tiny black arrow on a dark grey panel isn't an easy find, but they were there.

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,243
    edited December 1969

    Thank you for the explanation - I think the problem may have been that I tried the Mil Cat, which already has morphs in the areas I did the morph. Will try the advanced settings and see what happens:)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited May 2014

    Yes yes thank you Roygee,, it is actually one problem (but I needed to find it)

    then there is one more problem ,, you must find it when you make morph with reverse defomation,

    Edit,, it seems only problem about daz triax figures ^^; not about cr2,, they can work sorry.

    I have believed it should happen about all figure,, but cr2 is OK ^^;
    (if you have subdragon LE.duf please check it with reverse option please,, )

    I really need good translater to tell clear what I want to tell others :-)

    Post edited by kitakoredaz on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited May 2014

    Hi Patience that makes more sense now I had been using the scale option on hex to get my dino to the correct size I'm guessing that was wrong?
    Plus it's stil doing that thing with Dino's mouth when I send it back from hex to daz? The whole model is selected after I morphed it any advice on stopping it doing this?

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited May 2014

    Right good news I've done the morph and saved it where it needed to go and here is what I have.
    Now is it just the rigging I got to learn now will that link you sent me to that tutorial work for me or is that only for people who have created a model from scratch?

    Chears, Ian :)

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Right good news I've done the morph and saved it where it needed to go and here is what I have.
    Now is it just the rigging I got to learn now will that link you sent me to that tutorial work for me or is that only for people who have created a model from scratch?

    Chears, Ian :)

    Wow. Okay.

    No, the link for that tutorial you may disregard. That is for a different type of rigging.

    For the saved .cr2 morph figure that you have made there, on the scene tab, drop down 'all' the little arrows and make a screen shot to post here. I'll have to find something to resize morph it and make some pictures ;-)

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited May 2014

    Here is the screenshot you require Paitence
    These I'm assuming they were already in the original model (Jobaria) which I have now altered to Melanorosaurus as you can see on the screenshot. I can select all the pieces of the model but when I do this happens on my 2nd screenshot I have here.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Here is the screenshot you require Paitence
    These I'm assuming they were already in the original model (Jobaria) which I have now altered to Melanorosaurus as you can see on the screenshot. I can select all the pieces of the model but when I do this happens on my 2nd screenshot I have here.

    Okay.

    The first method I tried to re-rig crashed the program so badly [have no idea why but] that I had to reboot the computer.
    The second method I tried, well ... it didn't work as expected.
    BUT The Third Method I tried worked beautifully.
    To answer several questions, I have quite a few images. This first set is "not" for legacy rigging. I don't have time to edit all the rest for posting tonight ... but it is real easy so not to worry. Tomorrow or Monday they should be posted here too.

    For those trying to re-rig Legacy items, be careful to not move the figure in Hexagon, make the morph. Export out the figure's new .cr2 file.
    Make a 'mat file' for however you'd like the item you'll be re-creating to appear. As this will be a D/S .duf file, it needs to be saved in a folder under My Library which is intended for to hold your mats. [i.e. Not in the Runtime].
    Then, clear the scene, load a fresh copy of the newly morphed .cr2 figure AND DO NOT MOVE IT AT ALL. Just have it selected and export out an .obj file. This "MUST BE" saved to a subfolder under My Library > Runtime > Geometries > possibly your name/handle subfolder > possibly Private. [so one remembers not to redistribute it].
    n.b. for figures that are re-rigged, all other morphs, pose morphs, emotion morphs, etc. will be lost. One is essentially making a new derivative figure just using the old bones.


    However for anybody that may wish to know, these first two images are so we are all on the same page in D/S.
    For rigging, one does need to use the Tool Tab and the Joint Editor. If one can't find them in the workspace they have at the moment, they are findable in City Limits.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited May 2014

    Using the requested dragon .duf file, yes it is possible to morph it ... saving the morph using the triax method.

    As we can't tell before creating a morph IF morphs were used in the creation of the .cr2 by the original creator of any file; first one tries to make the morph as shown at first. Keep Hexagon open. IF the morph does NOT work, delete the figure in D/S and load a fresh one, select it ... do nothing more with it for the moment. Return to Hexagon, "validate", then send the morphed figure back over the bridge to D/S and make the morph again, using the "reverse deformations" options.

    Now if one is morphing this particular dragon, obviously one can skip trying it the first method and go ahead with the "reverse deformations" option. All options are not written in stone ... if another selection works for the morphs one is making better, then that's the one to use. All those options are there for a reason.

    Oh yes ... when happy that the morph has been made, and saved, successfully, then one can close Hexagon ;-)

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited May 2014

    And the rest for the dragon.

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  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    Hi,,Patiance, thank you to check.:)

    you say,, we can not translate or scale, etc,, in hexagon.
    I believe,, If the reverse defomation work correctly,
    how we move vertices,,or scale up,,
    it should be loaded as morph from current pozing witout problem. (keep clean, and as same as
    we tweak in hexagon)

    then about subdragon LE.duf (triax weight figure)
    , if you move tail part more strongly (with soft manipulation,, move up, and rotate)
    , you may find clear where is problem about hexagon bridge with auto-reverse option yes.

    but if you set root node correctly,, how you tweaked tail in hexagon , it can make clean morph .with reverse defomation on.

    I already send report , and I believe it should be checked by daz,
    and I feel sorry to mistake about milleniam cats, or big cats cr2 type files.
    (they have no problem,, but dson have problem when make morph with delta option)

  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited December 1969

    I asked you to test,, and take you time,, so that I test again as same as you with pic..
    see them

    1. load subdragon.duf. then send to hexagon without any pozing. (though it have alraedy morphed many)

    2. select tail part with soft manipulation, then rotate, and translate up. (but I do not translate, scale , move as obj,
    just move vertices of tail)

    3. as you see,, the tail is not so brake,, (though I may need to set smooth)

    4. send back it to daz with auto reverse defomation on.. it need to work. and it say success

    5, and when I dial up,, it should break... (without I change root node,, in joint editor,, never work.)

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  • kitakoredazkitakoredaz Posts: 3,526
    edited June 2014

    Then I understand,,I may need to test more option,, as you sugget already,,
    then I did . but it not work.

    I do not hope to concentrate about this problem (because,, it seems not about hexagon etc,,
    it seems more about ds moph loader pro (hexagon bridge just use it, I think) problem,,
    but If someone find another setting, and it work well,, I hope to learn it clear..

    (And actually there are not many triax fgirue, which root node is not set 0 0 0,
    so that most of us do not care much,, or not try to make morph with reverse option,,
    then they do not care,, I think,, but reverse option is really important setting,, to make may type morph.
    I simply hope daz correct it,,)

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    I'll check this more later ...

    little bit of miscommunication happening ... when I was saying to not move the object about, i am referring only to the "entire" figure.
    If one moves the entire figure, let's say "off of the grid altogether", when sending it back to D/S to morph, it's going to move the figure in D/S out of the scene.

    For scaling extreme larger/smaller, one would need to reposition the critter to the ground or mid-air ... wherever it is it started from.

    The tail stretching like that looks to be a rigging issue. When one poses the original, it too goes wonky in various places. Some of the poses are fixable with morphing.

    ......................

    Okay ... going to start attempt at uploading a bunch of images.
    These cover the milcat, and of course Re-Rigging Legacy figure.

    One thing I discovered with the milcat is apparently we no longer "have to" dial the morph up full for it to be saved. :-)

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    And the rest for the MilCat.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    Re-Rigging an old legacy item for an extreme morph.

    First off, one might like to make a mat preset of the original item to be applied later on to the new derivative .cr2.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    Some more ...

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    And some more ...

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    And some more of course ....

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    And some more images ...

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    And the last few images ;-)

    Each figure presents its own issues. Each person does have to experiment and learn how to best rig the model they are working with.

    When the rigging is "as good as it gets", save out the .cr2 file. Apply a mat, save out the final .cr2 file.

    Clear scene, load in the new figure.

    Test it in various poses that one might use. Make pose presets as necessary. Make morphs to assist with the poses as necessary.
    It takes some time to make a figure. It takes time also to re-make a figure.

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  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Arhh brilliant this will help me a great deal with my new altered model I'll follow this pic tut and I'll see how I get on and let you know how I'm doing.

    Chears, Ian.

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