Making Morphs for Legacy and converted TriAx figures - Lots of pictures

2

Comments

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Arhh brilliant this will help me a great deal with my new altered model I'll follow this pic tut and I'll see how I get on and let you know how I'm doing.

    Chears, Ian.

    Okay. We're expecting a heat wave tomorrow and then some nasty storms so if you don't hear back right away, not to worry.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    Then I understand,,I may need to test more option,, as you sugget already,,
    then I did . but it not work.

    I do not hope to concentrate about this problem (because,, it seems not about hexagon etc,,
    it seems more about ds moph loader pro (hexagon bridge just use it, I think) problem,,
    but If someone find another setting, and it work well,, I hope to learn it clear..

    (And actually there are not many triax fgirue, which root node is not set 0 0 0,
    so that most of us do not care much,, or not try to make morph with reverse option,,
    then they do not care,, I think,, but reverse option is really important setting,, to make may type morph.
    I simply hope daz correct it,,)

    I did a quick test morphing the tail to curl. When dialing in the morph, yes it jumped up in the air too. Not pretty.
    I don't think it should be doing that either.
    I used the "adjust rigging to mesh" and ERC freeze, got the bones to move with the mesh, but the mesh still jumping up into the air which I did not morph it to do.

    ......

    I tried changing the ERC control options too [when making the morph from Hexie] ... seems to have effect but nothing was perfect.
    Could be wrong but the problem may be that with how this item was rigged in the first place, it is making extensive use of controllers which affect lots of stuff. The tail can be made to curl nicely, etc selecting the various bones and using the dials on the parameters tab ... and possibly that's all it has been intended for one to do with it. I'm putting it back in the barn for now.

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience excelent news I've followed your pic tut and I've nearlly completed my model :D. One issue I am having is on powerpose there are so many bones on the Dino model (Melanorosaurus) and there are only a few dots on the powerpose map to use so how do I alter all bones in the body? Here is the image of what I've done so far.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Hi Patience excelent news I've followed your pic tut and I've nearlly completed my model :D. One issue I am having is on powerpose there are so many bones on the Dino model (Melanorosaurus) and there are only a few dots on the powerpose map to use so how do I alter all bones in the body? Here is the image of what I've done so far.

    You're doing well :-)

    Please do NOT worry about the PowerPose. All that you can use that for is to "reset pose". It's a whole other topic to make all said figure's bones show up in a powerpose template ... that's something best left to coders IMHO. [in my humble opinion]

    To pose the bones, select them from the scene tab, and then on the Parameters tab, gently move various sliders to get the desired effect.
    Remember too that bones affect each other. Sometimes one needs to move the previous bone, or the next bone to get a desired pose.
    Once you have a pose you like [or even a partial pose], one can from File, "save as" a "pose preset" ... takes some work to master those as well ... basically keep selected that which is to move, uncheck body parts that are not to be moved IF making partial poses. They might not be perfect but they could be helpful as starters for setting up the next pose.

    When a scene is "just right", one can save out a "scene subset" too.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited June 2014

    Ok then il leave the power pose then, least I now know :) can I know animate this model now instead of poses or do you use that word for animate? Just wondering so I know we are on the right page. Or do I need to do other things on the model before I can animate and create the ani blocks for the model?

    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Ok then il leave the power pose then, least I now know :) can I know animate this model now instead of poses or do you use that word for animate? Just wondering so I know we are on the right page. Or do I need to do other things on the model before I can animate and create the ani blocks for the model?

    Go ahead and animate!

    Powerpose I use more for stills that's why I was thinking poses.

    Also as you animate, if you stop the action at a certain place, one can save that out as a pose if so desired. Just more options that's all.

    Have fun.

    Unless things have changed, when rendering, render out to a sequence of images and unite them together using another program [like Windows Movie Maker or whatever you use on your computer].

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited June 2014

    Ok that's cool. I've got 1 last issue that needs sorting I've completed your tutorial and it all looks perfectly as it should be the joints move correctly as they should except only the back legs are not responding correctly now I'm not sure if it is the size of the joint on the joint editor for the back legs as you can see on my image I previously sent you or what?
    Here is a screenshot of my hopefully final problem.
    Plus the mouth wont open this is what happens when I try to open it. I went into posing tab and I same thing happens in there too?

    Any advice?

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    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    If said desired actions cannot be accomplished by moving the long narrow bend/side lines with the Joint Editor, then the method to use is to create morphs.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    ? who from but had this in my email so presumably somebody either edited their response or the forum software glitched it.

    Ok then, thanks for all your help you have been amazing couldn't of done it
    without you or your pic tut. Gonna do a couple of other dinosaurs now as
    there hasn't been the species created yet and need it for my movie plus a
    baby triceratops too I'll go for. If I ever need any help with that I'll
    contact you.

    You're welcome. But for a triceratops there is one available in the store.
    http://www.daz3d.com/triceratops

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    I edited that comment but obviously it hasn't worked properly? Ok I'll give that ago

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Right I may need some pics again sorry bout this I have 2 image of the 2 parts I'm having problems with.
    I've been moving the sliders in joint editor but I'm not sure what I doing or what size the joint should be for the parts of the body I'm struggling on.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    I edited that comment but obviously it hasn't worked properly? Ok I'll give that ago

    Oh okay. Oh it worked then ... it sends notices out that a post was made ... but not for edits.
    One can use "preview" to check their post before submitting it.

    And if there be a reason [NOT to bump] for posting a post, following one's own post, that's okay too. I do it all the time to relay news for my tutorials.

    For the 'jaws' ... is that all part of the 'head'? That's what it looks like to me. If so there's nothing you can do with bones except to make what is there to work nicely with the neck. All "emotions", etc. would have to be done using morphs. And there will be limits of course as to what can be achieved with morphs on these older figures. This is not "Genesis" ;-)


    edit to add: ... okay for the hip/tail issue, try angling the thigh's red area to include any of the "to the tail" border.
    Green means it will move the mesh.
    Red means it's not supposed to move the mesh.
    We don't want it to move the mesh away from the tail.

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited June 2014

    No the jaw is a joint seperate to the head it is suppose to open like all the other models I tested out with original model (jobaria) before I altered it to Melanorosaurus.
    I understand what you meant by the red and green been giving it a try and it is creating other little issues. Do you recon I should just concentrate on the thighs and use jointx [bend]? or should I do the top part of the thigh joint and use another function in the selection menu? This is what it is doing.

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    Post edited by dinosaurmad87 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Well, you could try loading the original and see how the bone angles look for that, then make similar angles on the new model. Just be very careful that you change the new model, not the old one ... and delete from the scene the original model BEFORE saving out any new .cr2 files for the new one "just to be sure" that the correct model is re-saved.

    The other thing is yes, experiment "gently" by fiddling with the other dials/options and see what happens. Worse case scenario, delete the model and reload a fresh one. If a change is good, "save as" under a new name [so you don't lose any of the previous work just in case it turns out to not be such a good change]. Sometimes it takes awhile to find exactly the right angle that needs changing ... and you know, it's always the very last one that is tried [or so it seems some days].

    Twist, Bend, and Side-to-side are the main angles to check. Obviously it's welding somehow with the top head piece. Check also the top head piece that it's not "holding onto" the jaw somehow [same dials, twist, bend, side-to-side].

    Without the model there's not much more I can think of ... maybe somebody with more experience can jump in and offer some suggestions.

    If not, considering the age of the model, I'd go with making it look as best one can ... for close up camera shots of open jaws, swap in another critter.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Ok then il give this a shot next week when I get back off my hols thanks for your help much appreciated :)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    You're welcome. Have fun - and enjoy the nice summer days too ;-)

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Was experimenting with re-rigging some of the older dino models ... I think that may be necessary to get some of those wild tail morphs and so forth corrected. However each model also seems to present its own slew of issues so, so far don't have a "formula" for a high percentage success rate. If/when it comes together, time/weather permitting I'll pack it up into a tut.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Hardly done yet ... preliminary results ... well they'd be good 'til about 1/2 way through and then kapooey.

    However, in working with the old legacy figures [i.e. dinos], IF one loads 2 of the same ... converts the 2nd one to TriAx ... IF they are BOTH the same size. Great. Delete them and load one legacy. Make a mat file for it. Send it to Hexagon. Then also export out an .obj file.
    In Hexagon IN the same project as the delivered dino launched, import in the .obj export.

    Select the tiny dino and carefully make it the same size and same position as the big dino.

    Export out an .obj of this "one skinned" dino.

    Back in D/S, convert legacy dino to TriAx.

    Then, import into D/S the "one skinned dino" and run the Transfer Utility.
    Making "actor".
    Include "morphs", UNcheck the box to remove unused bones. Add smoothing.
    Apply mat to make it look better ;-)

    When done, delete the first TriAx and keep the one skinned TriAx by saving out the figure file.

    Clear the scene, load the new TriAx dino, pose it [i.e. the tail which yes if not done this way tends to go all wrong] ... and when ready, send it over the bridge to Hexagon.

    "Polish" the pose, morph "gently" whatever changes were desired.
    In D/S reset dino to the default load.
    From Hexagon send the morphed dino over the bridge to D/S.
    In D/S make the morph :-)
    If it works okay, save the morph.

    One worked. Hopefully the next one will too.

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Ok I'll await your new pic tut then plus have a read at your other post too

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Well everyone, seems there is some bad news. The communications between D/S4.whatever I was using and Hexagon and even through to 3D Coat ... for actually trying to do some work, is totally "borked". Hexagon needs a major overhaul with regards to Shading Domains and materials. How it reads what it is given and how it writes out the information for other programs to read. Not only D/S, but also 3D Coat read that extra default material. So that was not D/S, but it is definitely Hexagon that is making it.

    Granted, D/S is also quite capable of making one too. Not to be left of the party eh.

    There appears to be no way to get it through the system that, for example, if one removes a texture it is GONE. It is not supposed to mysteriously reappear to complicate matters 2 or 3 steps later. In sending out, bringing in ... you know, D/S is NOT supposed to bork the uvmap but it sure can. Made one of the biggest messes I've ever seen. I had dino converted to triax. Had "single skin" [with good uvmap] swapped over. Fine. Used the very same steps to set up for a 2nd uvmap, and while the base appeared to be there, the uvmap was total garbage. It was fine in the other programs. It was fine for a direct import. It was through the running of the TU that it got borked. The TU doesn't normally bork uvmaps. It's not supposed to. Apparently it's learning a few tricks from Hexagon. "If Hexie can, Hexie will".

    So I tried hacking some files. Know something. If you hack the file ... the stupid program doesn't read what is written. It keeps reading whatever the heck it has what, stashed somewhere??? Close/open the program doesn't help either.

    When one sends something over to Hexagon over the Bridge, IF in D/S nothing is selected upon receiving something back from Hexagon over the bridge, it is NOT supposed to offer to make a morph. Choosing "prop" didn't work either. One has to empty the scene. So then yes the .obj lands ... along with that stupid won't go away skin. But not looking like it's supposed to. Nope. Not at all okay.

    Sometime back I had written a manual on how to make extra uvmaps. I followed it too. It apparently no longer works. I changed all the references and the program "sometimes" found the 2nd uvmap but totally borked on the uvmap ... or it simply never recognized them. Hacked or no. [hack meaning I went into the files and typed paths to where everything was so it could so find them if it could read.]

    The above is but a tiny tiny bit of a myriad of things that went wrong. I'll hazard a guess that we're not supposed to convert legacy rigging to triax so exactly why those options are present I don't know.
    I'll hazard a guess that we're not supposed to create new uvmaps for products ... just buy 'em? Excuse me but somebody has to be able to first make 'em.

    Morphing ... well ... good luck. Best I found so far was to make the morph for whatever on the default load irregardless ... and no that doesn't make sense to me either. But then neither did having to remove 7 shading domains, just to make 7 new shading domains, just to rename them the same so that the next program could "read them". oh yes ... also had to remove all the materials and reassign "new' materials and rename all those as well. And that's not all folks. Nossir. That would be too simple. One also has to SAVE the project. [and if one has faces selected, the program cannot save the project, it has a problem and must close] Then make the export and hope the changes stay put. But we all know ... one has to then close/open Hexagon and import in the same just to export it back out and just "maybe" that stupid default material will go away. [but not to worry, it'll show up again 3 steps later].

    Why don't we like upgrades ... everytime one thing is fixed, something is broken. i would love the program to simply be all fixed. New features aren't much help if rather useful things are borked. The program is supposed to look for files where the .duf file says there are. Not where it wants to pretend they are.

    .......................

    The above may or not make sense, right now is not a good time to ask me.

    If I ever luck into how to make this little dino work for my special little friend, there's no way there's going to be a tutorial. It'll be by sheer luck or a miracle.

    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

    end of thread.

    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited June 2014

    gee ... no "yes dears" ... okay ... well, the outdoor temperature has really cooled down and I took another stab at this.

    Okay ... yes there is a way to make another set of uvmaps for a figure BUT it has to be a triax figure.
    One can convert their .cr2 to a triax figure BUT one canNOT make use of a "single skin" figure on it and have a second uvmap -- although there's another idea or two yet to try so "maybe one day" .... oh yes, one has to save their converted figure first. Then edit the geometry by adding in the uvmap geometry, then save that alone [similar to saving out morphs, get a drop down choice].
    btw - once there is an option of uvmaps to work with, any mats made when there was only one, need to be remade.

    'til then, the export out of an .obj file to make new uvmaps with must be the Poser "node" option, NOT the shading domains ... apparently that's just for our amusement or something. ....

    The Allosaurus [converted to TriAx] may one day have a new skin.

    Post edited by patience55 on
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Hundreds of views ... okay ... membership in the forums is "free". One can post replies or questions or solutions or whatever. If it's too whatever the mods will zap it.

    Did some more checking back and forth ... it doesn't make sense to me however the possible problem with the loading of a new uvmap for the figures might be something the 3D Coat is doing to the model. I mention this because IF one is/was hoping to make extra uvsets for their merchandise one would not want 3D Coat UNLESS the professional edition has an improved exporter. 3D Coat can be used to produce lower poly models however for straight export it offers mid or low poly. [I don't have the Pro license]
    Or ? the problem could be how D/S is reading the information for to make the new uvmap. Why is because it loads the item fine for straight importing. It's only messes up the map with the uvmap loader. But it doesn't mess up one done solely in Hexagon.

    Good reason to have Hexagon ;-)

    I'll post these few pics in the fond hopes that somebody who knows a lot more about the topic can either make a fix or share some information if I've totally missed some [probably obvious if you know what you're doing] step.

    Thanks.

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  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    For those desiring a little picture tutorial ... I've uploaded a very brief one to show how yes one can save out an "apply" and "remove" shape preset. These are not technically inj/rem poses because the morphs still exist 'in' the triax figure's folder of course.

    Basically, after one has saved their morph to its final resting place ... dial it up full.
    Save out a Shape Preset to its proper place(s). [There are a few places already started by various PAs and/or the company, basically put 'em where you'll look for 'em].
    Then dial the shape(s) to "0" and repeat the save for a "remove" file.
    DA Link

    The main thing to remember when saving out a Shape Preset is the same as for the morph saves ... just place "one" check mark for each item required for said shape to work. {not the entire catalogue of purchases ever made!}

    For legacy items, well ... that's a work in progress involving several people now so we'll see what happens over the course of time ;-)

  • dinosaurmad87dinosaurmad87 Posts: 114
    edited December 1969

    Hi patience I'm now back off my hols and had another try at fixing the issues I have been having with my altered model. Good news is I have fixed the back legs so I can now create a walk cycle :D just need to try and see if I can sort the mouth out

  • BlackFeather1973BlackFeather1973 Posts: 739
    edited December 1969


    For legacy items, well ... that's a work in progress involving several people now so we'll see what happens over the course of time ;-)

    Looking forward to that. :)
    Tried to create inj/rem files for gen4 clothing morphs yesterday, but tbh i have no idea what i'm doing when it boils down to things like exp, inject channels and all the other stuff i've never even heard of. (yep, i'm generation genesis) :-D
  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969


    For legacy items, well ... that's a work in progress involving several people now so we'll see what happens over the course of time ;-)

    Looking forward to that. :)
    Tried to create inj/rem files for gen4 clothing morphs yesterday, but tbh i have no idea what i'm doing when it boils down to things like exp, inject channels and all the other stuff i've never even heard of. (yep, i'm generation genesis) :-D

    If you have D/S3 something in this package may help.

    It is good idea to use the FF download helper such as 'download them all' [puts option on right-click menu to download their links, say okay/continue if it pops up a notice] Re-up of tutorials/scripts/utility for D/S3


    The Next tutorial I'm hoping to launch by next weekend will be for re-mapping the old dino to have a new skin on the old dino. This way we don't lose morphs, etc. :-)

  • RoygeeRoygee Posts: 2,243
    edited December 1969

    As far as making INJ/REM files, with the help of a Daz tutorial and Crissie from Daz, I've got as far as getting the INJ/REM and Delta files, but no morph channels. Apparently one has to run the .bat files to get channels, but I can't figure what to do to run them. This step is not mentioned in the tut.

    There is a file DzCreateExPFiles.exe which I'm sure is the one to use, but launching it does nothing - just a brief flash. Could be its broken?

    The file is in the MyDazStudio Library/Runtime/Libraries/!Daz - could someone test that, see what happens?

    I've been waiting a few days for Crissie to get back to me on this.

  • BlackFeather1973BlackFeather1973 Posts: 739
    edited December 1969


    For legacy items, well ... that's a work in progress involving several people now so we'll see what happens over the course of time ;-)

    Looking forward to that. :)
    Tried to create inj/rem files for gen4 clothing morphs yesterday, but tbh i have no idea what i'm doing when it boils down to things like exp, inject channels and all the other stuff i've never even heard of. (yep, i'm generation genesis) :-D

    If you have D/S3 something in this package may help.

    It is good idea to use the FF download helper such as 'download them all' [puts option on right-click menu to download their links, say okay/continue if it pops up a notice] Re-up of tutorials/scripts/utility for D/S3


    The Next tutorial I'm hoping to launch by next weekend will be for re-mapping the old dino to have a new skin on the old dino. This way we don't lose morphs, etc. :-)

    Awesome ! Thank you so much.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969

    Roygee said:
    As far as making INJ/REM files, with the help of a Daz tutorial and Crissie from Daz, I've got as far as getting the INJ/REM and Delta files, but no morph channels. Apparently one has to run the .bat files to get channels, but I can't figure what to do to run them. This step is not mentioned in the tut.

    There is a file DzCreateExPFiles.exe which I'm sure is the one to use, but launching it does nothing - just a brief flash. Could be its broken?

    The file is in the MyDazStudio Library/Runtime/Libraries/!Daz - could someone test that, see what happens?

    I've been waiting a few days for Crissie to get back to me on this.

    Given that said .exe doesn't exist inside any of my recently installed D/S4.latest folders, it might be one of the previous files that went along with the legacy figures before for those desktop update runners.

    I had one in a storage folder and ran it a few times, flashes by so fast I can't get a screen shot of it, appeared to have a little text to it and "poof". So have "no idea" what it did or didn't do.

  • patience55patience55 Posts: 7,006
    edited December 1969


    For legacy items, well ... that's a work in progress involving several people now so we'll see what happens over the course of time ;-)

    Looking forward to that. :)
    Tried to create inj/rem files for gen4 clothing morphs yesterday, but tbh i have no idea what i'm doing when it boils down to things like exp, inject channels and all the other stuff i've never even heard of. (yep, i'm generation genesis) :-D

    If you have D/S3 something in this package may help.

    It is good idea to use the FF download helper such as 'download them all' [puts option on right-click menu to download their links, say okay/continue if it pops up a notice] Re-up of tutorials/scripts/utility for D/S3


    The Next tutorial I'm hoping to launch by next weekend will be for re-mapping the old dino to have a new skin on the old dino. This way we don't lose morphs, etc. :-)

    Awesome ! Thank you so much.

    You're quite welcome.

    For those just wanting the tutorials and not the drivers/utility, there is a .zip folder uploaded now in my DA gallery too.

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