3D Comic Book Tips And Pictures

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  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    edited September 2020

    I've lost access to the only version of Daz Studio that will render my NPR shader presets properly - due to this incident a couple of weeks ago: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5941121/#Comment_5941121

    I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling that version of Daz Studio several times, but it still refuses to boot up. 

    I had the style down that I was going to render my comic in: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5906036/#Comment_5906036

    But now... it's just not possible, since the only version of DS that will render the shader presets right is no longer working. :(

    So now I'm working on trying to get my NPR shaders to look ok with the latest version of Daz Studio (for the 3rd or 4th time ...I've lost count of how many times I've had to remake my NPR shaders due to changes to Daz Studio). But since there where some Iray shader mixer bricks removed and changed in the last update to Daz Studio, it's pretty much an exercise in futility to get them to look anything close to the way they looked before.

    So I've been trying some new experiments and doing a lot of work on to try and get a new NPR style figure out. Here's the results of some of my latest experiments:

     

    I think they look neat. However - and this is a HUGE however, I'm not able to get consistent results with that or create any kind of viable style with the shaders since they are now extremely dependant upon exact lighting and camera placement, which just isn't an option for comic panel creation. No one wants to look at a comic with the exact same light direction and camera angle in every panel. 

    ...So, my experiments and work continues. It's "back to the drawing board" to try and figure out how to get an NPR style that will work for my comic. 

     

     

     

    ELR NPR - New Shader A w Top Coat 3.png
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    ELR NPR - New Shader Test w Kimberly L2 A 3DL Lines Divide.png
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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • Griffin AvidGriffin Avid Posts: 3,488
    edited September 2020

    Yeah, it seems to be coming along. Shame because that top image is great.

    Is there any possibility to parent the lights and camera to the central thing or character?

    Maybe group them together and move the lights and camera like a singular entity?

     

    Post edited by Griffin Avid on
  • 3Diva said:

    I've lost access to the only version of Daz Studio that will render my NPR shader presets properly - due to this incident a couple of weeks ago: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5941121/#Comment_5941121

    I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling that version of Daz Studio several times, but it still refuses to boot up. 

    I had the style down that I was going to render my comic in: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5906036/#Comment_5906036

    But now... it's just not possible, since the only version of DS that will render the shader presets right is no longer working. :(

    So now I'm working on trying to get my NPR shaders to look ok with the latest version of Daz Studio (for the 3rd or 4th time ...I've lost count of how many times I've had to remake my NPR shaders due to changes to Daz Studio). But since there where some Iray shader mixer bricks removed and changed in the last update to Daz Studio, it's pretty much an exercise in futility to get them to look anything close to the way they looked before.

    So I've been trying some new experiments and doing a lot of work on to try and get a new NPR style figure out. Here's the results of some of my latest experiments:

     

    I think they look neat. However - and this is a HUGE however, I'm not able to get consistent results with that or create any kind of viable style with the shaders since they are now extremely dependant upon exact lighting and camera placement, which just isn't an option for comic panel creation. No one wants to look at a comic with the exact same light direction and camera angle in every panel. 

    ...So, my experiments and work continues. It's "back to the drawing board" to try and figure out how to get an NPR style that will work for my comic. 

     

     

     

    Ugh that really sucks...  I had a major project setback a few months back when I decided to update AFE when my renderque was totally loaded.  It's NOTHING like your dealing with, but you have my sympathies.  It's hard enough to get a project complete, and it's so much worse when the tech works against you.

    I do have to agree with Griffin Avid, though... that top shot looks awesome!  I totally dig it!

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991

    Yeah, it seems to be coming along. Shame because that top image is great.

    Is there any possibility to parent the lights and camera to the central thing or character?

    Maybe group them together and move the lights and camera like a singular entity?

     

    The lighting is just weird Render Settings based on Daz Studio's built-in Sun Disk with funky adjustments to the Environment and Tone Mapping settings. However the light direction in relation to the camera angle is what gives the nice effects in that first image. So in order to use that same style for each panel the lighting would always be coming from relatively the same angle in relation to the camera. That COULD really annoy readers... but I'm not sure. You could be right that it might be workable. I'll do some experiments. Thank you, Drew, for the feedback! :)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    edited September 2020
    duckbomb said:
    3Diva said:

    I've lost access to the only version of Daz Studio that will render my NPR shader presets properly - due to this incident a couple of weeks ago: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5941121/#Comment_5941121

    I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling that version of Daz Studio several times, but it still refuses to boot up. 

    I had the style down that I was going to render my comic in: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5906036/#Comment_5906036

    But now... it's just not possible, since the only version of DS that will render the shader presets right is no longer working. :(

    So now I'm working on trying to get my NPR shaders to look ok with the latest version of Daz Studio (for the 3rd or 4th time ...I've lost count of how many times I've had to remake my NPR shaders due to changes to Daz Studio). But since there where some Iray shader mixer bricks removed and changed in the last update to Daz Studio, it's pretty much an exercise in futility to get them to look anything close to the way they looked before.

    So I've been trying some new experiments and doing a lot of work on to try and get a new NPR style figure out. Here's the results of some of my latest experiments:

     

    I think they look neat. However - and this is a HUGE however, I'm not able to get consistent results with that or create any kind of viable style with the shaders since they are now extremely dependant upon exact lighting and camera placement, which just isn't an option for comic panel creation. No one wants to look at a comic with the exact same light direction and camera angle in every panel. 

    ...So, my experiments and work continues. It's "back to the drawing board" to try and figure out how to get an NPR style that will work for my comic. 

     

     

     

    Ugh that really sucks...  I had a major project setback a few months back when I decided to update AFE when my renderque was totally loaded.  It's NOTHING like your dealing with, but you have my sympathies.  It's hard enough to get a project complete, and it's so much worse when the tech works against you.

    I do have to agree with Griffin Avid, though... that top shot looks awesome!  I totally dig it!

    Yeah, it's been set-back after set-back for the NPR work. I'm just ...ARGH! lol There are no words for how much work I've put into the NPR shaders for the past year and a half. 

    Thank you for the comment and support! :D I like the first image too. I think that having that style for each panel would probably annoy people reading the comic though, since the lighting would have to pretty come from relatively the same angle in each panel ...for the entire comic. lol So I don't know if that's doable. Then again, people might not even notice or care. I'm not sure. I'll try and set up a few panels and experiment with it to see if it could possibly be a viable style or if it would just be hugely annoying to people. lol

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • 3Diva said:

    I've lost access to the only version of Daz Studio that will render my NPR shader presets properly - due to this incident a couple of weeks ago: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5941121/#Comment_5941121

    I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling that version of Daz Studio several times, but it still refuses to boot up.

    So I've been trying some new experiments and doing a lot of work on to try and get a new NPR style figure out. Here's the results of some of my latest experiments:

     That's really unfortunate news. You might want to try a manual install of that earlier DS version (which one?)  to a custom folder on one of your other drives, without any internet supported content. You might be able to get those shaders working offline. Then manually add the content you need. It would be a shame to lose all that experimentation and fine tuning that you developed.

    BTW  your character's light setup delivers some nice highlight with those sidelights.

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 5,145
    edited September 2020

    Another experiment towards the ever elusive

    .

    1stBastion-NOBODY-460.jpg
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    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991

    Another experiment towards the ever elusive

    .

    I like the style! :) How did you get the lines? 3DL shader or something else?

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    3Diva said:

    I've lost access to the only version of Daz Studio that will render my NPR shader presets properly - due to this incident a couple of weeks ago: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5941121/#Comment_5941121

    I've tried uninstalling and reinstalling that version of Daz Studio several times, but it still refuses to boot up.

    So I've been trying some new experiments and doing a lot of work on to try and get a new NPR style figure out. Here's the results of some of my latest experiments:

     That's really unfortunate news. You might want to try a manual install of that earlier DS version (which one?)  to a custom folder on one of your other drives, without any internet supported content. You might be able to get those shaders working offline. Then manually add the content you need. It would be a shame to lose all that experimentation and fine tuning that you developed.

    BTW  your character's light setup delivers some nice highlight with those sidelights.

    Thanks for the suggestions, I think I have it worked out (*crosses fingers*). lol :D

    And thank you for the comment on the lighting. :) I'm going to see how much I can incorporate that into my comic style.

  • 3Diva said:

    Another experiment towards the ever elusive

    .

    I like the style! :) How did you get the lines? 3DL shader or something else?

    I did use the hidden 3DL cartoon render option in DS. Played with some of the settings.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    3Diva said:

    Another experiment towards the ever elusive

    .

    I like the style! :) How did you get the lines? 3DL shader or something else?

    I did use the hidden 3DL cartoon render option in DS. Played with some of the settings.

    Oh I didn't know about that! Cool, I Googled it and this came up: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/242501/toon-render-option

    I'll have to check out! :D

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 5,145
    edited September 2020

    If you click on Show Hidden Properties in the render settings tab you get the option. Its under the style subheading under default.  Pre Iray the cartoon render options was visible. They probably hid it to make the iray render look more streamlined.

    cartoon.jpg
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    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • Should mention it only works with 3DL rendering.

  • Another experiment towards the ever elusive

    .

    I really like the texture (? not really sure what to call it, just a "vibe", really) in this one.  It's almost like a cross between postarize and blur...  like...  a "soft posterize" action.  I know I'm just talking crap, but I mean it as a good thing.  Images like this where I wouldn't have been able to put my finger on how it was done really spark my interest and help pull me away from the technicalities of "How did they do that" and just into a space where I can enjoy it as an image or part of a story.  Nice work!  THe text font also really fits the style!

     

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    edited September 2020

    If you click on Show Hidden Properties in the render settings tab you get the option. Its under the style subheading under default.  Pre Iray the cartoon render options was visible. They probably hid it to make the iray render look more streamlined.

    Oh thank you! That's pretty neat - you don't even need to apply a toon shader! :)

    I did lower the Defuse Strength of the textures in the Surfaces Tab and upped the Gamma and Gain in the Render Settings Tab, it gave nice outlines. :)

    G1 - Lycan - 3DL Toon Render.png
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    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    edited September 2020

    Scriptwriting... it's daunting. It's intimidating. And it's even a little scary. And when you have major set-backs, it can add pressure and really up the intimidation factor.

    The hubby was watching TV the other day when I came into the living room. I normally don't watch much TV these days, so I intended to give him a quick peck on the cheek and then pass by on the way out to the back yard, but something caught my eye on the TV screen. There was a scenario that was playing out that was eerily familiar. It made me pause and take notice. As I started to watch it with him. I was getting more and more uncomfortable because what I was watching was a LOT like the story I had been working on for my comic. I was enthralled with the show, it was GOOD... Really good. And it was, sadly too close to what I had been working on for my comic for me to not feel conflicted. It was a good story, and ...apparently something pretty similar had been done before. I was kind of bummed. If I went forward with the story how I had it planned, it would feel like I was copying someone else. Even though I know I hadn't seen the show before, it was just too close to what I was planning for my comic. So I decided to rethink some of the main plot points and scenes for my comic. Trashing what I had envisioned for my story to basically "start over" with some of the main plot points was a challenge. Taking the time to redo what I had thought was already good set me back some, but I'm really glad I did it. What I landed on, to me, feels a lot more solid and the story now feels a lot more satisfying to me. 

    However, getting down an outline of a story is one thing. Scripting it out, scene by scene, panel by panel, is another. And that's where I walked headfirst into the brick wall of writer's block. Getting my story from detailed outline to writing out each page and panel - planning out every single action, reaction, and word of dialogue and completely scripting that out... it's just so daunting.

    I have a few thoughts on things that have been a BIG help though, in getting through writer's block:

    Don't write a script. Writing a script is hard, it's HUGE, it's like when you have to clean an entire house. You're like "I have to clean this entire house! Where to start!?". When a task is so big, you often just kind of freeze up and you soon find yourself just NOT DOING IT AT ALL. Don't try to clean your entire house, try and clean a corner. Just one corner. Once a corner is cleaned, you can clean another corner. And another after that. One corner at a time. Just focus on something small, then when that's finished, something else that's small - do that too. If you approach script writing the same way, it's WAY less daunting and intimidating.

    Keeping in mind that:

    1) Each scene is just a Mini Story. That's it, it's just a tiny story. You can do that! Approach each scene as just a mini-story. Don't worry about writing an entire script. Just worry about writing that mini story. And when that one is done, move on to the next mini story. Before long, hey - look at that! You're writing a script!

    2) It DOESN'T have to be perfect. Striving for perfection, for many, is a sure-fire way to keep you from moving forward. Knowing when to move on to the next scene/next mini-story can be a sanity saver. If you're striving for perfection and it's keeping you from moving forward just ask yourself:
    Does the scene make sense? Does it accomplish what it's supposed to (is the point of the scene clear)? Is it cohesive to the rest of the plot and story? If the answer is yes -run with it. Move on to the next mini-story.

    3) KISS. As my art teach liked to say - "Keep It Simple Silly". Most people read comics for the fun and entertainment value. Everyday life is complex, complicated, and often a bit scary - people read comics to escape, even for a little while, into the story that you've created. But a story that's overly complicated or too complex will very often "lose" your reader. Most people who read comics, they want something fun to read, something not too heavy and not too complicated. A story that's coming off as super complex or very complicated may be off-putting to a lot of people who really just want to read your story to be entertained. They want to have fun and escape their normal everyday lives for a time while they read your comic. Keeping things simple can not only be a big help to you, as the writer, but will also help your reader to not feel lost and keep the story entertaining. Once you have the main story thread established, you can build upon your story and world in additional issues of your comic, but keeping things relatively simple per issue can help keep the reader enjoying your work without feeling like things are getting too complicated or confusing. YOU know your story world in an out and every character intimately, but for the most part, comic readers won't be quite as hyper-focused on your story as you are. So keeping things easy to understand and follow is a much more enjoyable experience than getting lost or feeling confused by an overly complicated plot or storyline.

     

    Those are just some of the things that I've found helpful for myself, when it comes to writing a script. If you guys have any other ideas and tips on scriptwriting, I'd love to hear it! :D Because what works for one person, may not work for someone else. People have different techniques and approaches that might work for them but perhaps might not work for the next person. Getting a variety of information on how different people approach script writing can be a big help! I'd love to hear you guy's ideas on scriptwriting and how you, personally, approach the subject. What do you, personally, find most helpful when it comes to writing your script(s)? :)

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 5,145
    edited September 2020

    I think writing is the hardest part of this process,  and I say that, having been a writer for atleast 20 years longer than I've been doing 3D art.  Developing and writing a script is a challenge; writing one people want to read even more so.  I would certainly suggest writing the script first, independent of any art and panels. Just focus on the story and dialogue and descriptions and captions. Words on paper.  Laying out the panels is a later step in the production  process.

    Developing a cohesive immersive story is a task all on its own. Doing it all at the same time can definitely become overwhelming. In any professional setup, each of these step would be done by a different specialist. Writer, Penciller, Inker, Digital colorist, Letterer.  If you are doing all the steps in the process, that breakdown of job specialization still should apply.  The writer writes the story first. Then the editor evaluates. Asks for changes  gets a rewrite. Proof reads, Finalizes the script. Then it gets passed on to the art department. There must be a reason why the major publishers do it that way.

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991

    I think writing is the hardest part of this process,  and I say that, having been a writer for atleast 20 years longer than I've been doing 3D art.  Developing and writing a script is a challenge; writing one people want to read even more so.  I would certainly suggest writing the script first, independent of any art and panels. Just focus on the story and dialogue and descriptions and captions. Words on paper.  Laying out the panels is a later step in the production  process.

    Developing a cohesive immersive story is a task all on its own. Doing it all at the same time can definitely become overwhelming. In any professional setup, each of these step would be done by a different specialist. Writer, Penciller, Inker, Digital colorist, Letterer.  If you are doing all the steps in the process, that breakdown of job specialization still should apply.  The writer writes the story first. Then the editor evaluates. Asks for changes  gets a rewrite. Proof reads, Finalizes the script. Then it gets passed on to the art department. There must be a reason why the major publishers do it that way.

    Ahhh Good insights! Different people handling different aspects of a normal comic production definitely makes things less daunting than the "one person army" approach. lol If we approach it as a regular pipeline process like how a normal comic workflow would develop, it makes sense to separate each part of the process out and just focus on one aspect at a time. Wearing "one hat at a time" to keep things more simple. I like that approach.

  • 3Diva said:
    Trashing what I had envisioned for my story to basically "start over" with some of the main plot points was a challenge. Taking the time to redo what I had thought was already good set me back some, but I'm really glad I did it. What I landed on, to me, feels a lot more solid and the story now feels a lot more satisfying to me. 

     Yah sometimes set-backs lead to breakthroughs. I like the resilient spirit.  Its good to hear you turned it around into something you're happy with. We can always remember,  "writing is rewriting".  The work is constantly evolving and growing,  never quite finished,  but hopefully good enough to share with the world. Expect to make changes right up to when it is sent off to get published.

    As a side note,  it is generally accepted that there are only 36 basic plots/dramatic situations in the history of all literature. So the same stories have been retold often and over again.  The only thing that makes them unique is the author's unique take on it. Embrace your unique view of the world.

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    3Diva said:
    Trashing what I had envisioned for my story to basically "start over" with some of the main plot points was a challenge. Taking the time to redo what I had thought was already good set me back some, but I'm really glad I did it. What I landed on, to me, feels a lot more solid and the story now feels a lot more satisfying to me. 

     Yah sometimes set-backs lead to breakthroughs. I like the resilient spirit.  Its good to hear you turned it around into something you're happy with. We can always remember,  "writing is rewriting".  The work is constantly evolving and growing,  never quite finished,  but hopefully good enough to share with the world. Expect to make changes right up to when it is sent off to get published.

    As a side note,  it is generally accepted that there are only 36 basic plots/dramatic situations in the history of all literature. So the same stories have been retold often and over again.  The only thing that makes them unique is the author's unique take on it. Embrace your unique view of the world.

    Yeah, it's funny but these setbacks I keep having have ended up being weirdly ...good. lol Because they end up leading to something even better. Like all the setbacks I've been having with the shaders and art style, it led me to rework the art style and I like it even BETTER now! Same with having to rework the story, I'm much more satisfied with the story after reworking it. I thought I was happy with it before, but now after the rework I'm like ALL GRINS because I'm much more excited about the story now! hahah! It was able to work in some really neat twists and create an overall more cohesive plot. I REALLY like the changes! These "setbacks" have turned out not to be setbacks at all, but just opportunities to do some reworking and make it better. If I had gone ahead with both the style of art that I had before and the main plot I had before it wouldn't have been nearly as good as it is now, imo. lol :)

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    3Diva said:
    Trashing what I had envisioned for my story to basically "start over" with some of the main plot points was a challenge. Taking the time to redo what I had thought was already good set me back some, but I'm really glad I did it. What I landed on, to me, feels a lot more solid and the story now feels a lot more satisfying to me. 

    it is generally accepted that there are only 36 basic plots/dramatic situations in the history of all literature. So the same stories have been retold often and over again.  The only thing that makes them unique is the author's unique take on it. Embrace your unique view of the world.

    hahah Yeah, that's probably true. Considering all of human history there probably is nothing really new under the sun when it comes to stories and plots, I think. But you're right, it's our unique view of the world and unique experiences that bring the different perspectives of those stories and that's what can make them different. No one that ever lived or ever will live has had 100% of all of my experiences in life in exactly the same way that I've experienced them and lived them. No one that ever lived has seen, heard, and experienced my life as I have seen it, heard it, and experienced it. Even identical twins raised exactly the same way will end up with different lived experiences and unique points of view. No one can experience life with the exact same perspective as you've experienced it. In that way, we are the only truly new ingredient added to the mix. That is what can make a story different and more unique - Not the story, but the unique perspective of the storyteller.

  • I have to agree that I've often found the scriptwriting stage to be a difficult one for me to move past.  It isn't so much that I'm trying to be a perfectionist, but when I look at a page of text my mind tends to wander and it always leads to either more work or a change in direction.  For me, I've learned that I like to create a loose outline with key points like setting, hook, twist, and (most importantly) how it ends. 

    From there, I'll take a look at the story and see what I (as a reader) would expect some key frames and scenes to look like.  For instance, if the story takes the characters to an abandoned basement, perhaps a shot with the camera looking all the way up the stairs to our characters peeking around a corner and looking down is what I see in my head.  I'll go ahead and build up sets and render out these kinds of images, and from there it's just a matter of fill-in-the-blank or connect-the-dots. 

    You can see how it is VERY important to know how your story ends, as well as the details surrounding the environment and the characters, if you go this route, however, because you can easily create more work for yourself by creating these "key moments" and then needing to go back and change something like hair color or to give them a backpack or whatever.  The benefit to doing it this way, for me, is that while I'm at my peak motivation I'm creating those "hook" moments.

    In addition to that, I've found that I have a certain level of "give-a-crap" in me for any given project, and it helps to get these dots in place early on because it keeps me motivated then to finish up all of the connecting pages and panels, instead of putting weeks into a bunch of nothing-panels and then looking forward to my most challenging renders, still. 

    I don't know if this is a good way to work, but it seems to work for me.  There's risk, however, because if you aren't completely settled on the story, and the details, and the ending, you run the chance of wasting time on renders that will never even make the cut.  HOWEVER, silver lining will be that you can use that as "exclusive content" when you go to sale LOL.

  • LinwellyLinwelly Posts: 4,918

    I think writing is the hardest part of this process,  and I say that, having been a writer for atleast 20 years longer than I've been doing 3D art.  Developing and writing a script is a challenge; writing one people want to read even more so.  I would certainly suggest writing the script first, independent of any art and panels. Just focus on the story and dialogue and descriptions and captions. Words on paper.  Laying out the panels is a later step in the production  process.

    Developing a cohesive immersive story is a task all on its own. Doing it all at the same time can definitely become overwhelming. In any professional setup, each of these step would be done by a different specialist. Writer, Penciller, Inker, Digital colorist, Letterer.  If you are doing all the steps in the process, that breakdown of job specialization still should apply.  The writer writes the story first. Then the editor evaluates. Asks for changes  gets a rewrite. Proof reads, Finalizes the script. Then it gets passed on to the art department. There must be a reason why the major publishers do it that way.

    Writing the plot is hard and I suffered through it more than I enjoed it but getting that part together before entering the next stage was very helpful. There are still mior changes that happen during the scripting for each single episode but that needs to fit into the general direction og the plot.

    But what helped me during the wirting was to make some concept art of settings and characters, helped me get a better grip on the characters

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    duckbomb said:

    I have to agree that I've often found the scriptwriting stage to be a difficult one for me to move past.  It isn't so much that I'm trying to be a perfectionist, but when I look at a page of text my mind tends to wander and it always leads to either more work or a change in direction.  For me, I've learned that I like to create a loose outline with key points like setting, hook, twist, and (most importantly) how it ends. 

    From there, I'll take a look at the story and see what I (as a reader) would expect some key frames and scenes to look like.  For instance, if the story takes the characters to an abandoned basement, perhaps a shot with the camera looking all the way up the stairs to our characters peeking around a corner and looking down is what I see in my head.  I'll go ahead and build up sets and render out these kinds of images, and from there it's just a matter of fill-in-the-blank or connect-the-dots. 

    You can see how it is VERY important to know how your story ends, as well as the details surrounding the environment and the characters, if you go this route, however, because you can easily create more work for yourself by creating these "key moments" and then needing to go back and change something like hair color or to give them a backpack or whatever.  The benefit to doing it this way, for me, is that while I'm at my peak motivation I'm creating those "hook" moments.

    In addition to that, I've found that I have a certain level of "give-a-crap" in me for any given project, and it helps to get these dots in place early on because it keeps me motivated then to finish up all of the connecting pages and panels, instead of putting weeks into a bunch of nothing-panels and then looking forward to my most challenging renders, still. 

    I don't know if this is a good way to work, but it seems to work for me.  There's risk, however, because if you aren't completely settled on the story, and the details, and the ending, you run the chance of wasting time on renders that will never even make the cut.  HOWEVER, silver lining will be that you can use that as "exclusive content" when you go to sale LOL.

    Really neat and unique way of approaching it! I think that would work well if you've already very FIRMLY set up your characters and main environments as scene subsets. And not tweaking or changing ANYTHING really. And yeah, once you have all your characters and main environments solid then going in to create those "hook moments" is a really cool idea. Being able to use your inspiration to work on those cool hook scenes can likely help keep you motivated to finish the sequence of events leading up to those moments. It allows you to jump in when inspiration hits you and you're the most motivated to create those cool scenes you envision.

    I still find myself tweaking my main scene subsets too often, but I think once I have everything more FIRMLY set I think that going with this idea every once in a while might be fun! Doing so would allow me to work on the cool scenes when I feel the most inspired to do so. And also that might help to keep me from changing things too often. If I know I've already established a scene that looks a certain way, it might help to keep me from "tweaking" things. I'm like the queen of tweaking things. lol I'm never settled with something and keep changing it and tweaking it. "What if I add this to the environment" "What if I change the position of the furniture to this" "What if I make the walls blue instead" "What if I change her eye color" etc etc. lol I'm constantly trying different things and tweaking things. So I THINK that your approach might actually be good for me - maybe it will reign in some of those "queen of tweaking" tendencies. lol

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 10,991
    edited September 2020
    Linwelly said:

    I think writing is the hardest part of this process,  and I say that, having been a writer for atleast 20 years longer than I've been doing 3D art.  Developing and writing a script is a challenge; writing one people want to read even more so.  I would certainly suggest writing the script first, independent of any art and panels. Just focus on the story and dialogue and descriptions and captions. Words on paper.  Laying out the panels is a later step in the production  process.

    Developing a cohesive immersive story is a task all on its own. Doing it all at the same time can definitely become overwhelming. In any professional setup, each of these step would be done by a different specialist. Writer, Penciller, Inker, Digital colorist, Letterer.  If you are doing all the steps in the process, that breakdown of job specialization still should apply.  The writer writes the story first. Then the editor evaluates. Asks for changes  gets a rewrite. Proof reads, Finalizes the script. Then it gets passed on to the art department. There must be a reason why the major publishers do it that way.

    Writing the plot is hard and I suffered through it more than I enjoed it but getting that part together before entering the next stage was very helpful. There are still mior changes that happen during the scripting for each single episode but that needs to fit into the general direction og the plot.

    But what helped me during the wirting was to make some concept art of settings and characters, helped me get a better grip on the characters

    Concept Art is a great idea. Doing some scenes and treating them like what would be called "sketches" in traditional art - that makes sense to do, even in 3D medium, I think. As you said, it helps to get a better grip on the characters and environments and probably would help keep things more cohesive and consistent. It's a bit like a step above storyboarding or thumbnails - but instead of sketching it out by hand, doing some scenes that way. It sounds like a neat idea! I think another thing that can help accomplish those goals of "getting a better grip on the characters" is doing some character sheets. I guess that's kind of similar (or maybe even the same as?) concept art. Character Sheets can be a lot of fun. 

    I did some a while back: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5681831/#Comment_5681831 But I really need to redo them, as several of my main characters have "evolved" since then. lol

    The evolution of Saydra Lang:

    She started off as a red head.

    It became more of a brunette color:

    And in her current (and hopefully final) version, she has her natural hair color of black:

     

    If you notice - her shape and style has changed too. Some of the morphs I originally used for her were on a drive that failed. It made me have to rework her shape, so I thought I'd go a tad less stylized with her this time. I think she looks a little older too, which is probably good since some of the story changes added some more "adult-ish"/more mature types of scenes to the script.

    Post edited by 3Diva on
  • 3Diva said:
    duckbomb said:

    I have to agree that I've often found the scriptwriting stage to be a difficult one for me to move past.  It isn't so much that I'm trying to be a perfectionist, but when I look at a page of text my mind tends to wander and it always leads to either more work or a change in direction.  For me, I've learned that I like to create a loose outline with key points like setting, hook, twist, and (most importantly) how it ends. 

    From there, I'll take a look at the story and see what I (as a reader) would expect some key frames and scenes to look like.  For instance, if the story takes the characters to an abandoned basement, perhaps a shot with the camera looking all the way up the stairs to our characters peeking around a corner and looking down is what I see in my head.  I'll go ahead and build up sets and render out these kinds of images, and from there it's just a matter of fill-in-the-blank or connect-the-dots. 

    You can see how it is VERY important to know how your story ends, as well as the details surrounding the environment and the characters, if you go this route, however, because you can easily create more work for yourself by creating these "key moments" and then needing to go back and change something like hair color or to give them a backpack or whatever.  The benefit to doing it this way, for me, is that while I'm at my peak motivation I'm creating those "hook" moments.

    In addition to that, I've found that I have a certain level of "give-a-crap" in me for any given project, and it helps to get these dots in place early on because it keeps me motivated then to finish up all of the connecting pages and panels, instead of putting weeks into a bunch of nothing-panels and then looking forward to my most challenging renders, still. 

    I don't know if this is a good way to work, but it seems to work for me.  There's risk, however, because if you aren't completely settled on the story, and the details, and the ending, you run the chance of wasting time on renders that will never even make the cut.  HOWEVER, silver lining will be that you can use that as "exclusive content" when you go to sale LOL.

    Really neat and unique way of approaching it! I think that would work well if you've already very FIRMLY set up your characters and main environments as scene subsets. And not tweaking or changing ANYTHING really. And yeah, once you have all your characters and main environments solid then going in to create those "hook moments" is a really cool idea. Being able to use your inspiration to work on those cool hook scenes can likely help keep you motivated to finish the sequence of events leading up to those moments. It allows you to jump in when inspiration hits you and you're the most motivated to create those cool scenes you envision.

    I still find myself tweaking my main scene subsets too often, but I think once I have everything more FIRMLY set I think that going with this idea every once in a while might be fun! Doing so would allow me to work on the cool scenes when I feel the most inspired to do so. And also that might help to keep me from changing things too often. If I know I've already established a scene that looks a certain way, it might help to keep me from "tweaking" things. I'm like the queen of tweaking things. lol I'm never settled with something and keep changing it and tweaking it. "What if I add this to the environment" "What if I change the position of the furniture to this" "What if I make the walls blue instead" "What if I change her eye color" etc etc. lol I'm constantly trying different things and tweaking things. So I THINK that your approach might actually be good for me - maybe it will reign in some of those "queen of tweaking" tendencies. lol

    I've gone through my own fair share of re-work and do-overs because I tried an approach like this and then changed something down the road.  I think, again for me, the key was that I need to just put the time in upfront to define what my RMI (really most important) elements are, and then put in the time up front to hammer those out.  Once that is done, the trick has been to stay the course and to just accept the decisions I made early on and not tweak things that don't need tweaking.  A new awesome hairstyle is released and you want to use it?  Nothing is stopping you from faving that and using it next time.  In this light, it's also saved me from over-purchasing.  Sure, maybe I'm doing a sci-fi piece and I built up my ship, but some awesome PA releases a newer and hotter space ship that's even newer and higher-res?  I fave it, make do with what I decided on, and when the time comes to do another sci-fi piece maybe it's still the best choice, but maybe something even better has come along since then.

    You're right, though... the key is having a lot of discipline to accept the decisions you made at the early stage and see the whole thing through.  It's also why I now do more anthology-style comocs (like Black Mirror, where each entry is its own thing and as long as it is), because I DO like to try new things and play with new toys, and I don't like locking myself into one thing.  This has helped, because if I release a full comic every 2 - 3 months, I know that in another few short months I'll be staring at that awesome blank slate again and I can start up whatever tickles my fancy.

    That all said, the traditional way of doing things is there for a reason, so I can't say that my method is better.  The moral to my overly-long post is just that it's critical to define a workflow that fits the way YOU work, and also to be brutally honest with yourself when you need to be.  We all have limits to where our give-a-crap meter goes empty, and we all know those projects never get finished, so the trick is to limp yourself over the finish line fast enough to still want to tackle the next race.

  • 3Diva said:
    Linwelly said:

    I think writing is the hardest part of this process,  and I say that, having been a writer for atleast 20 years longer than I've been doing 3D art.  Developing and writing a script is a challenge; writing one people want to read even more so.  I would certainly suggest writing the script first, independent of any art and panels. Just focus on the story and dialogue and descriptions and captions. Words on paper.  Laying out the panels is a later step in the production  process.

    Developing a cohesive immersive story is a task all on its own. Doing it all at the same time can definitely become overwhelming. In any professional setup, each of these step would be done by a different specialist. Writer, Penciller, Inker, Digital colorist, Letterer.  If you are doing all the steps in the process, that breakdown of job specialization still should apply.  The writer writes the story first. Then the editor evaluates. Asks for changes  gets a rewrite. Proof reads, Finalizes the script. Then it gets passed on to the art department. There must be a reason why the major publishers do it that way.

    Writing the plot is hard and I suffered through it more than I enjoed it but getting that part together before entering the next stage was very helpful. There are still mior changes that happen during the scripting for each single episode but that needs to fit into the general direction og the plot.

    But what helped me during the wirting was to make some concept art of settings and characters, helped me get a better grip on the characters

    Concept Art is a great idea. Doing some scenes and treating them like what would be called "sketches" in traditional art - that makes sense to do, even in 3D medium, I think. As you said, it helps to get a better grip on the characters and environments and probably would help keep things more cohesive and consistent. It's a bit like a step above storyboarding or thumbnails - but instead of sketching it out by hand, doing some scenes that way. It sounds like a neat idea! I think another thing that can help accomplish those goals of "getting a better grip on the characters" is doing some character sheets. I guess that's kind of similar (or maybe even the same as?) concept art. Character Sheets can be a lot of fun. 

    I did some a while back: https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/5681831/#Comment_5681831 But I really need to redo them, as several of my main characters have "evolved" since then. lol

    The evolution of Saydra Lang:

    She started off as a red head.

    It became more of a brunette color:

    And in her current (and hopefully final) version, she has her natural hair color of black:

     

    If you notice - her shape and style has changed too. Some of the morphs I originally used for her were on a drive that failed. It made me have to rework her shape, so I thought I'd go a tad less stylized with her this time. I think she looks a little older too, which is probably good since some of the story changes added some more "adult-ish"/more mature types of scenes to the script.

    LOVE IT!  It may be beaten into me because of how overly-apologetic I am about my own content most of the time, but I very much prefer main characters that edge more toward "adult" than "child".  For whatever reason, it's easier for me to get into.  Even with something like "Stranger Things" on NETFLIX, my wife and I both noted how weird it felt to see those kids engaged in a romatic storyline towards the end, and it actually prevented me from even watching the 3rd season.  Your prior pic didn't look like a kid (just younger), but i'm LOVING the newest versions you just posted!!

  • FirstBastionFirstBastion Posts: 5,145
    edited September 2020
    3Diva said:

     

    I think she looks a little older too, which is probably good since some of the story changes added some more "adult-ish"/more mature types of scenes to the script.

    Very sophisticated look,  and great tones with the colors. You have developed an excellent style!

    Post edited by FirstBastion on
  • duckbomb said:

    So, with my most recent comic, I decided to do something a little weird...  This is a Choose Your Own Adventure style comic, where every few pages I post up a page like the last one here that presents a bit of a cliffhanger to my supporters on Patreon.  I'll then post up the same page, complete with options on how to proceed, and based on the results of the vote we'll move forward with the story.  As you can see, I've interjected a bunch of small bread crumbs all over the place for them to explore, if they end up wanting to, and ultimately the culmination of all of these votes will decide how the comic ends.  It's an interesting exercise, because I really had to pre-plan for a bunch of possibilities, but ensure none of my options take the story outside of where I want to go with it at a general level.

    From a technical standpoint, I tried experimenting with different sizes and shapes of panels this time.  Typically, things are a little... rectangular...  but I thought I'd try to interject some visual flair.  I'm not certain I love it, but I did learn that any panel shape other than rectangle really adds to the complexity when dealing with masks and such... 

     

    3Diva said:

    After much testing, experimenting with different shaders, trying different extreme render settings, a huge variety of weird HDRIs both purchased and hand made, and lots and lots of tweaking, and refining, I'm pretty sure I've nailed down the render style that I want to go with for my comic. Here are some random scenes I rendered in the render style that I want to go with. Most of these scenes have nothing to do with my comic, but I wanted to just show a variety of scenes in the render style so that I can get a good handle on if it's going to be viable for a wide range of scenes that I'll need for my comic.

    Feedback is welcome - as I might be "too close" to it to see if there are any real issues with it. But barring any major problems with the style, I'll probably go with it as I really like it! lol Hopefully there aren't any real issue with it though! :D

    Wow!  How did you produce this look?  I want something like this for my next comic!   I'm working on one right  now but style is totally different...but really like this for a more comical comic I'm doing. 

  • Lots of great tips and lovely work here.  I have a comic I"d love to share with you all.  I've been developing the style for awhile.   I hope  it is  one of the best looking 3d/CG comics out there...but seeing some of you alls GREAT work that is a hard bar to pass.  :)  Thank you for the inspiration.  

    page33jp.jpg
    2100 x 3150 - 4M
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    2100 x 3150 - 2M
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