Trying out physics in Carrara



  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    To Dartanbeck, Bigh, Dudu_0001, evilproducer and 3dage:

    Thank you for viewing and commenting - you guys do know how to encourage!

    Dartanbeck - you are so positive, the opposite to me. If ever we shook hands there would be a flash as we cancelled each other out!

    Dudu, strangely, it never occurred to me to save the animated mesh anywhere, although I have exported them before as static objects. So I tried dragging a couple into the browser and used them in new projects - even duplicated them - and they seemed to have nothing missing. When I moved them around in my video, I was at frame 1 - perhaps that made it possible. I don't know how the animated data is stored. While the scene is open it must be in some memory structure because the animation can be cleared and the object returns to normal.

    Bigh, it's nice to know you liked it.

    Evilproducer thanks for the support. I saw some dinosaur clips of yours - great work!

    3dage, Thanks for the links - those videos of yours are interesting, entertaining and they teach a lot - especially about the scope of Carrara. There can't be much you haven't tried and mastered. Some vases of yours I saw in another thread are amazing. I take on board all you're saying about the current state of physics in Carrara. I have only concentrated on a small aspect of it (I don't why - it just hooked me for now). As I see it there's little hope of getting any animated clothing done in Carrara using physics - let alone done quickly and efficiently. But I played around a bit more resulting in another video.

    It lasts 12 minutes and continues from where the other left off. I will need a third tutorial to follow! (I use the word tutorial loosely).
    There are a couple of short clips which flash up after the credits. I used the same format as before but it seemed a bit blurred when I watched it.

    Here is the link:

  • DUDUDUDU Posts: 1,943
    edited December 1969

    He, increasingly interesting, well done Marcus !
    At minute 11, I don't understand why the cone passes through the clothe as if it did not exist...

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    Hi Dudu,

    Thanks for watching so quickly!

    At 10 minutes 28 seconds I switch off 'Collide with other objects' in the effects tab. If the cone method is used for the seated figure, it needs to pass through without colliding.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,786
    edited December 1969

    Fun as always, Marcus!
    About the sparks during a hand shake, yeah... I'm used to that.
    If you ask Garstor, Wendy, and/or evilproducer, they'll tell you that I'm quite annoyingly happy and optimistic most of the time in real life - even more so that my typing in the forum! LOL

    But that helps me to be me, I guess.

    As always, I try to find ways to make things that are thought to NOT work into solutions that do work.
    So instead of thinking that soft-body physics just won't work well in Carrara (yet), I'm thinking of experiments using Attach, to make just portions of clothing softbody, and attack it to an invisible primitive of sorts, that is parented to the moving figure.

    With dynamic hair, I've found that hair does react better to primitives than to high resolution figure meshes, yet I'm still getting jitters, that I still think are a product of the hair shader I'm using, not the hair itself. I have also had experiments go awry when I had a sky dome object in the scene. Even after I set it to not collide, it seemed that, once I deleted it, the hair behaved much better.

    So in that reasoning, my next step will be to keyframe the primitives that the hair is to collide with, rather than to parent them to a figure - so that the figure can be entirely omitted from the scene, leaving nothing but the hair and the primitives it is to collide with during the simulation phase. Then try rendering that as is, to see if the jitters clear up. If so, then try bringing the figure back in, relying on the fact that the simulation is already stored, and see if the improvements remain. This is all very time consuming, but if I can get that gorgeous hair to work, it will all be worth it. Of course, another option is to try it without the kink... Rosie does use a straightening iron from time to time... making her long, thick hair even longer.

    So anyways, Just to add some of the realism that dynamics can add, I am thinking of experimenting with making a special cut-off tee shirt model and see how well it works for Soft-body physics, using the same principles - leave the figure out of the scene until the physics are finished calculating. This might even work for more full-bodied clothing as well, like a cloak, cape, or dress.

    I am seeing plenty of promise in your experiments, so keep up the good work. I like your explanations in text, and then moving on to the experiment at hand. Very useful, and entertaining. If you could just keep making these, I'll keep watching them. Great job!

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    Thanks, Dartanbeck, for your remarks and for viewing.

    So far I haven't used Carrara's Hair simulator but from what you say it sounds like there are similarities in behaviour and in collision issues as with cloth.

    I tried to make a figure composed of primitives with hot-points moved so that they could form limbs that rotated into poses. I built into it a cloth disc ready to drape. My intention was to make the limb parts rigid but pose-able and the disc soft for draping. But when the modifier was applied, rotation of separate parts became impossible - it was like I had rigged it with a skeleton and it became one-piece.

    It's worth giving any of this a go - if only to understand it enough to be ready for any improvements released.

    Another thing that's possible is to run the simulation and then tilt the finished object/hair before rendering. So a flag simulated to hang vertically could be rendered as though it's blowing in a gale by turning it 90% I guess the same could be done for hair simulated apart from the figure.

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    Just to add: instead of simulating the clothes or hair without the figure in the scene you can use the Effects tab to turn collision off for the figure. What I set out to do in the beginning was have the primitives parented by the limbs but you could just have them there, I guess, if you are going to move them by yourself anyway.

    It is a lot of work.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,786
    edited December 1969

    Right. But as I've found in a hair sim, even turning off collision, the sky dome still messed with the simulation.

    As for the primitives idea, so far I've always parented the primitives to the figure, where they are suppose to represent. Hmmm... I'll lose all of that without the figure in the scene. Perhaps I can keep the skeleton, but get rid of the mesh... I'll try a few things. The hardest part is finding the time for it all. As with what happens a lot when I experiment with dynamic hair, I optimized my conforming hair a bit more... I keep getting happier and happier with the conforming hair the more I mess with dynamics! LOL But I really want the look of that Carrara hair. So another experiment I'd like to try is to lessen the amount of frames per second - see if that helps the 'jitters'. Then I could bring just a hair layer into Howler and motion predict it to apply smooth tweeners between the frames to bring it back up to the amount of frames per second I need.

    Why not, eh? Animation folks in big production houses have to try these various work-arounds all the time to get their proper effect. Why should I consider myself safe from such investigations, right? ;)

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    Well I've posted another video. Two and a half minutes but his time only stupid renders - no words.

    The video is made from a bunch of clips which belong on the cutting floor or the waste bin but at the time I was playing with ideas.

    A couple of bits look like hair but are absolutely a million miles from the serious concern you have to get it right. No offence is meant... honestly ....BAM.:lol:

    here is the link if you don't mind wasting part of your life:

    It's almost 1:30 am here...I'll sign off

    Regards to all.

  • DartanbeckDartanbeck Posts: 18,786
    edited December 1969

    Wow... Some crazy-cool stuff going on in there! :ahhh:
    Cool that you did that hair thing. One of the experiments on my list of things to try is to make soft-body hair! :)

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    @ Dartanbeck: Thanks again for your positive comment. I've had no internet access for a bit, so I'm late making this remark.

    For any gluttons for punishment, I've posted another video of 2 - 3 minutes showing the effects of the stiffness and bending sliders being changed along the timeline.

    I need to stress that the kind of collision I've shown is only an imperfect workaround that can be arrived at - but usually after a lot of frustrating trials (the speed an object moves, for example, matters a lot).

    I wouldn't recommend anyone relying on it in a big way. As 3dage says, (to paraphrase) collision of hard objects against soft isn't a feature of Carrara in this version - it is still in Beta.

    So, with that in mind, here is the link to the video:

  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited December 1969

    Hi, everyone.

    I'm in a complete rush to get out for an appointment but I've taken another shot at animating cloth. I expect failure ultimately but this might be a little step forward.

    The scene is a shambles - the cloth is a shapeless rag, etc.

    But here is a quick result.

    640 x 480 - 4M
  • Hermit CrabHermit Crab Posts: 824
    edited April 2014

    Hello again everyone.

    Last weekend I got a chance to finish with this.

    The final demonstration of using soft body physics is now on YouTube at this link:

    It is 15 minutes long and is only about the process of making a draping garment on a figure beginning from scratch. It shows ways to get it wrong also.

    If my previous posts have already shown you all you can take of this, perhaps the brief demonstration of Gravity settings at around 11:40 will add something to what I discussed before and you might want to jump there if only out of curiosity!

    The idea of using simulation results to create morph targets arose and resulted in creating my first ever morph targets. The (imperfect) results follow the part about Gravity.

    Below is a gif showing one of the three morph target results. What looks like poke-through is actually just careless fitting.

    I hope anyone viewing the video will find it interesting - I'll be the first to admit that 15 minutes is a lot to ask!

    I'm more or less finished with soft body and now join the ranks of those awaiting new developments!

    640 x 480 - 571K
    Post edited by Hermit Crab on
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