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Can't save strand-based hair

Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
in The Commons

I'm having an incredibly difficult time having my strand-based hair move between scenes with my characters. 

I'll create the character, but then if I try to transfer ("merge") them into a new scene with their SBH, the hair doesn't come along for the ride even though it appears like it has. That is, it shows up in the scene panel and the little orange guides are there, but it doesn't render.

I've tried saving as a scene subset and as a wearable. No luck with either.

What the heck am I doing wrong?

Comments

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,520

    Just tested and no issues here. You may want to describe step by step what you do, perhaps with pictures, to get better help.

    What I did:

    1) create a sphere and paint some hair

    2) save as scene subset (sphere + hair)

    3) merge it back in another scene

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Hm. With your method, you're saving the figure + hair.  I'm attempting to save only the hair (a beard in this case), so I can use it later. 

    I have to save the entire figure?

     

  • felisfelis Posts: 3,827

    To my knowledge you need the base for the hair.

    And I think the recommendation is to make a haircap you can grow the hair on, and then save that together with the hair.

  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 97,693
    felis said:

    To my knowledge you need the base for the hair.

    And I think the recommendation is to make a haircap you can grow the hair on, and then save that together with the hair.

    Yes, the hair has - as far as I know - to be attached to something, a suface to grow from, it isn't free-floating.

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    Richard Haseltine said:
    felis said:

    To my knowledge you need the base for the hair.

    And I think the recommendation is to make a haircap you can grow the hair on, and then save that together with the hair.

    Yes, the hair has - as far as I know - to be attached to something, a suface to grow from, it isn't free-floating.

    Hm. Do we have "beard caps" yet? LOL. 

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,520

    Yes to use sbh you need a haircap that may be conformed to different characters.

  • gniiialgniiial Posts: 207
    edited January 2020

    NO, thats not the whole Story! I bet you will be happy to hear that... laugh
    You can save the hair as wearable AND even without a cap, to use it later on in other scenes and on other figures. But you will run into a problem there, because there is no way to tell the hair later that it is made for GM8. All other options are there, but not GM8.


    Just to be save try dublicating the hair: Edit -> Dublicate -> Dublicate Nodes(s)
    Go to: Parameters -> Line Tessellation -> Preview PR Hairs -> ON (If you don't do that, Daz3d will tell you with a Selection Error to select a simple object, that contains geometry at the next Step)
    Transform the new SBH(2):  Edit -> Object -> Rigging -> Convert Prob to Figure  (this upcoming dialog is ATM for me a riddle because of other problems that come up, when it comes to saving the new hair... still testing but would appreciate hints or solutions what would be the best/right way, because maybe we could even fix broken tests with Strand Based Hairs that look just nice...)
    I used all of them once, and all of them work but just take:  TriAx Weight Mapping and Inherit Skeleton of Parent
    Then Right Click on SBH(2) -> Fit Figure: SHB(2) to GM8 figure (...here comes the bummer, you can use everything, but there is no Way to set Unsupported to GM8... i know, strange right?!)
    I used: GM3 with Hair/Short Hair type (...it gives a better outcome than using GF8! and you can somehow later transform it from GM3 to GM8 as far as i know...)
    Then just follow the normal procedure to save a hair as wearable preset...

    But don't ask me for more information from this point forward. I'm just getting into it. As far as i can tell, transforming the hair is the right way to even deal with strange behaviors and misfitting situations. But i guess you have to really get into the style, adjusting and refining parts before you save it this way. There is no way back i know of... 
    You should also be aware of the critical point of saving the scene and working ONLY with a dublicated set of your hair, that you transform into a figure. Because there are getting important informations lost, when you forget to save the transformed hair to a wearable hair preset. The outcome would be that your hair will be shown as grey blocks. At this point i don't know if there is a way to get the lost information back and fix the hair preset like you would if there is a misleading path to a file that would be essential. 
    But with this way morping the face in not to extreme ways will also affect the hair in the best possible way. No cap needet at all... 



     

    showcase.jpg
    1285 x 1200 - 252K
    Post edited by gniiial on
  • AsariAsari Posts: 703
    gniiial said:

    NO, thats not the whole Story! I bet you will be happy to hear that... laugh
    You can save the hair as wearable AND even without a cap, to use it later on in other scenes and on other figures. But you will run into a problem there, because there is no way to tell the hair later that it is made for GM8. All other options are there, but not GM8.


    Just to be save try dublicating the hair: Edit -> Dublicate -> Dublicate Nodes(s)
    Go to: Parameters -> Line Tessellation -> Preview PR Hairs -> ON (If you don't do that, Daz3d will tell you with a Selection Error to select a simple object, that contains geometry at the next Step)
    Transform the new SBH(2):  Edit -> Object -> Rigging -> Convert Prob to Figure  (this upcoming dialog is ATM for me a riddle because of other problems that come up, when it comes to saving the new hair... still testing but would appreciate hints or solutions what would be the best/right way, because maybe we could even fix broken tests with Strand Based Hairs that look just nice...)
    I used all of them once, and all of them work but just take:  TriAx Weight Mapping and Inherit Skeleton of Parent
    Then Right Click on SBH(2) -> Fit Figure: SHB(2) to GM8 figure (...here comes the bummer, you can use everything, but there is no Way to set Unsupported to GM8... i know, strange right?!)
    I used: GM3 with Hair/Short Hair type (...it gives a better outcome than using GF8! and you can somehow later transform it from GM3 to GM8 as far as i know...)
    Then just follow the normal procedure to save a hair as wearable preset...

    But don't ask me for more information from this point forward. I'm just getting into it. As far as i can tell, transforming the hair is the right way to even deal with strange behaviors and misfitting situations. But i guess you have to really get into the style, adjusting and refining parts before you save it this way. There is no way back i know of... 
    You should also be aware of the critical point of saving the scene and working ONLY with a dublicated set of your hair, that you transform into a figure. Because there are getting important informations lost, when you forget to save the transformed hair to a wearable hair preset. The outcome would be that your hair will be shown as grey blocks. At this point i don't know if there is a way to get the lost information back and fix the hair preset like you would if there is a misleading path to a file that would be essential. 
    But with this way morping the face in not to extreme ways will also affect the hair in the best possible way. No cap needet at all... 



     

    Are these your custom brows? They look really great.
  • gniiialgniiial Posts: 207
    edited January 2020

    Yes, thats what i've been testing with. I really like them too, but there are other sets of eyebrows i made, that looked even nicer. Even more realistic.
    I could not imagine at the start of my tests that the Strand Based Hairs would have so much potential. It's a great and most wanted, really nice worked out part of Daz3d. But we need a little more explanations and more people that share their experiences in detail. 

    Post edited by gniiial on
  • PaintboxPaintbox Posts: 1,633

    @leonides02 did you solve this problem? I think I had the same problem :

    have scene > merge character with sbh > hair shows in viewport > doesn't render

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Nope - never solved!

    Folks are like, "Make a hair cap," but I'm doing a beard...

  • gniiialgniiial Posts: 207

    Can you tell me in which way you create the hairs?! And i mean step by step... Maybe there is something that breaks the chain... 
    It should not depend on where it is created, to archive this. But i tested my steps with a beard. Without cap... works like a charm...  frown

     

    Is any of the hairs maybe sticking in the skin?! I work really precise lately, because i was running in trouble too and thought it might be the case that some hair tips poking into the skin could create a problem. 

     

    beard_showcase.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379

    Hi gniial,

    I haven't tried your method yet. I tried to save it as a simple wearable, but that didn't work.

     

  • gniiialgniiial Posts: 207
    edited January 2020

    This also works without any cap! And ist also working like a charm, when it comes to translate it into another scene. But as it happens, there are situations, like hair does not render, does not stick on the skin like it should when you morph things, becomes a gray block and so to speak unusable and so on. 
    I recreated this beard there just from a saved file, where i just saved the SBH to edit it later on further. Did you maybe scale or influence the hair otherwise, befor you saved it?! This can also break a lot. frown

    By the way, if you would rigg the hair, test it with a face morph and something odd happens, then you know for sure there was something wrong/broken. I tried to transform a brocken beard, that i scaled before saving it. Was a mess as a figure, that had to morph with the face... indecision

    Post edited by gniiial on
  • SelekSelek Posts: 70

    Apologies for resurrecting an older thread, but this is one of the few discussions I can find about how to save and load strand-based hair.  The hair I'm making looks fine to me without a haircap.  I've been trying to save the hair alone (no figure) as a scene subset, and I can successfully merge it into a new scene with a new figure, but I can't find a way to get the figure to wear it properly.  Any tips on this?

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,257
    Selek said:

    Apologies for resurrecting an older thread, but this is one of the few discussions I can find about how to save and load strand-based hair.  The hair I'm making looks fine to me without a haircap.  I've been trying to save the hair alone (no figure) as a scene subset, and I can successfully merge it into a new scene with a new figure, but I can't find a way to get the figure to wear it properly.  Any tips on this?

    Is it set to "Fit to..." the correct figure under Parameters?

    Do you have the SBH in a group?  i think translation settings of a group can make it unfit

  • SelekSelek Posts: 70

    Thanks for your comment; you helped me solve the problem.  Yes, I had it set it to "Fit to..." the correct figure in Parameters, but for some reason "Apply Transformation" was set to Off.  Once I toggled that on, the hair immediately moved itself to the top of the model's head.  How does it know how to do that, lol?  How does "fit to" know to put it on her head and not on, say, her elbow?

    So is making a scene subset the best way to do this?  Or is it better to make it as some sort of prop?

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,956
    Selek said:

    Thanks for your comment; you helped me solve the problem.  Yes, I had it set it to "Fit to..." the correct figure in Parameters, but for some reason "Apply Transformation" was set to Off.  Once I toggled that on, the hair immediately moved itself to the top of the model's head.  How does it know how to do that, lol?  How does "fit to" know to put it on her head and not on, say, her elbow?

    So is making a scene subset the best way to do this?  Or is it better to make it as some sort of prop?

    You're supposed to toggle it on and then back off I'm pretty sure (that is, Apply Transform). You need to do that every time you fit the hair to another model.

  • SelekSelek Posts: 70

    Thanks. OK, so I need to toggle it back off, then.  I'll go back and do that.  Thanks!

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