No longer buying products without directions
Zatetic
Posts: 286
in The Commons
I'm tired of buying products that are supposed to be so advanced and beautiful and then fail to include any kind of directions on how to use those features. I shouldn't have to spend so much time researching how to make a product I bought function the way it was described or portrayed.
I am no longer buying any product from the DAZ store unless the product's store description plainly states that directions are included.
{Rant off}
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Comments
Well, feel free to ask quesitons in the forums - it might just be a case of looking to find a readme or something :)
The Daz deals browser add-on adds links to the readme on product pages.
Why should we have to rely on an application to do what DAZ should do itself?
Most of the complicated products have pdf instructions. The readme page shows them if they do. You can read through them even without having to buy the product and see if they fit your needs.
YES! I agree. I do most of my shopping on my iPad so I can't use Ati's browser add-on and don't want to sit at the computer any longer than I need to. The readme should definitely be on the product page and state whether a pdf is included or even have the whole pdf there so we can see how complicated or not the product is to use...
While I understand where your coming from getting DAZ to change the store is like pulling teeth. We have been asking for YEARS for end dates when things are on sale to be put on each item in the store... NADA... FOR YEARS. The Daz deals add on, which installs to MOST browsers out there, I use Opera, really does offer allot of features including a link to the ReadMe file for each product and this add on is non intrusive from what I've been able to figure out. Meaning it's not collecting information on you or anything. It's really great. Also adds in some extras to the Wishlist in that you can sort stuff out better.
The complicated products, especially the utilities, that I can't figure out, I usually abandon, and then never buy anything else from that vendor. If I find a vendor produces a product that doesn't work with Mac, I basically never look at that vendor's products ever again.
This is quite common, actually. If you're selling, you really only have one shot to reel in any given customer. If it doesn't work out, you and your products often find yourself on the outs with that potential customer.
It is what it is...
Ok, so where is this daz deals" also, is there anyway to fix all the old content I have filling up my lost and found? I think a lot of it can in the starter bundles because I do not remember buying it and some of it would be nice to use but it isn't compleate or I can't find the models that go with the materials.
I only just started using this add on and LOVE it for that reason- also, that it links to gallery images and forum posts about it too!! that functionality right there is AWESOMELY helpful!!!! I don't really follow the sales so much and haven't figured that part out, but it was a super awesome surprise to browse to daz store witht eh plugin and see the links to readme, gallery images, and forum posts. <3 must have!
which product was it out of curiosity?
are plenty of things I cannot use properly but they actually have directions I am just not good at following them
not DAZ but Zbrush and Blender fall in that category for me, no shortage of tutorials and documentation just braincells
See this thread:
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/106296/announcing-daz-deals-browser-add-on/p1
Well, feel free to ask quesitons in the forums - it might just be a case of looking to find a readme or something :)
I find the number of plug-ins, complicated products and the vast scope they cover - to be overwheling for the gaps between uses and...overall infrequency of need- to truly remember any sort of instructions.
With so many products- it feels like the first time everytime I use them.
I already have a master list of tips and tricks with some notes and I have a Software Folder that has all the PDFs and/or relevant read me'.
It's still a chore to track them down. This is going to be an ongoing issue- with no real way to solve it.
Should the PDF be bundled with the manual download link?
Should it be lost in the cloud product read me area?
Should it be in the confusing 'read me' slot that often links only to a product description- when it's not a dead link?
I make tutorial videos- and most other vendors do too, but even then- those are linked on the products' store page - and who really remembers if there's a video or not?
After the store, you need that ATI browser to find the commercial or commons' thread with the official place to find all the troubleshootings associated with that product.
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What I think is best (or at least my favorite) is when they add instructions to the product itself. I love when the first thumbnail is an instruction list or when you open the product the first thing that pops up is a page of instructions. I also like when the guide and/or the files are in a tree with named steps on the items/shaders/script themselves.
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I don't know if voting with your wallet is enough. Daz has a monstrous customer base and many of us don't use a product until they need it. Which means- everybody grabs it so sales don't always indicate how worthy a product is- both ways. Great sales or poor sales. The best bet is to push for the things you want.
Mention again and again, speak to the vendors, start threads like these.
Maybe leave daz alone- since all they can do is suggest things or list best practices.
Does a jacket need a PDF? Maybe if it has a zipper that moves around. Maybe if it comes with those joint handles that aid in movement, but also shows up in renders. lol
Maybe if it has multiple tiling options or advanced properties for materials/shaders/textures.
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I think it's a very tough tightrope to be comprehensive, feature-heavy, simple, light on resources, good for advanced users and newbies, break new ground, be familiar, take advantage of the newest additions and updates, be legacy compatible, take advantage of today's computers, run on an old laptop, expand your imagination and also be intuitive.
Have a manual for users who don't read manuals.
Have a video for people who can only afford the time to scroll through it.
All while being lauded for your expert craftspersonship and dedication by customers trying to buy your products at bare-bottom discount prices.
This is a tough thing. Spread love.
Wait, how does anything recent work with a Mac? Can you use iRay on a Mac? I bought a PC just for rendering DS because nothing works on my Mac...
Well, Iray *works*, it's not optimal, and it goes directly to CPU, but you can render with it. I tend to avoid it as much as possible.
+1
yep, same here.
Yup. Still waiting for that pdf manual on life. From birth to graduating college, it was pretty intuitive, but now I need major tutorials for the hidden more advanced parts of life...
Ditto. Like a few days ago when the leak detection guy said do you have a bathroom I can use and I said yes, down the hall.
It really just depends on the Mac. Most Mac users I've spoken to don't seem to use NVIDIA cards because it's not standard and can be finicky to set up. Because I wanted to use my Mac for other work and also use Iray and continue working/producing content in DS, my solution was to get an older Mac Pro tower and install a 980 Ti NVIDIA graphics card. My graphics card updates don't happen nearly as fast or as often as the Windows ones (which makes sense), so dForce is often painfully slow, but my Iray render times aren't too bad. For example, a render that takes an hour on my Mac Pro takes five to twelve hours on my iMac, which is more modern but couldn't be customized with an Iray-friendly graphics card.
I know some PAs have arrangements with render artist groups for promo images. Are there any established services for writers to offer help with things like documentation and product descriptions?
When instructions for a technical product are missing or hard to follow, in my experience it's usually because writing them is a time-consuming task and there aren't enough hands.
Writing documentation also takes away time from making a new product. If people buy them without it, I think most PAs won't bother to do it.
I think also some PAs are also not that fluent in English. That would be a clear barrier when trying to write a documentation.
without knowing what product the original poster is referring to we are rather in the dark as to how much documentation it needs.
I have seen 10 page threads where an original poster never posted a single update to their query yet people managed to fall over themselves arguing and discussing the situation
Wendy, why should we let facts bother us?
As for documentation... I generally cannot be bothered with it. BUT I have benefitted greatly from the Linday Tutorials that came with Side Layered Messy Hair. The videous were huge, explanatory and worked. I would have preferred a 5 page pdf as it would have been much smaller to download and much quicker to assimilate and provide the same info, but I did benefit from them.
That product does, in fact, come with a 5 page PDF.
Honestly from the start of the thread I was hoping that they would come back and say what product they had in mind, in case the documentation is there and they do want to learn. I have definitely seen people come into product threads to talk about how it's too confusing and there isn't any documentation, only to find out that there was in fact a complete user guide included that just hadn't been read yet. I'm not saying all products have them, and I'm not saying there aren't products that are still confusing, but there are definitely times people just don't look for the documentation.
I've had this problem, too. It makes sense that each product should have support documentation right on the product page. I've also sorely underestimated the learning curve on some products before buying. But if what looked like a simple one-click solution requires an in-depth tutorial, I'll just return it. I don't want to learn a whole new system for just one product.
can go by the vendor name too. some more consistent with the readmes
Sorry but I turned my rant off at the end of my post but I will make an exception and turn it back on for this comment.
{Rant on}
My search for documentation included an extensive file search (don't get me started on finding Daz files) which included looking at every directory in my two Daz libraries, uninstalling and reinstalling the product, checking the store page, checking the DAZ product page, checking the DAZ Help section, checking the Daz documentation center, checking my Install Manager documentation, searching for every pdf file on my SSD and HD, searching by file installation date, uninstalling and reinstalling metadata files, and searching the forums. It really shouldn't be that hard to find the information.
{Rant off}