People who make Daz characters (that look too much like their other characters)
unused account - glossedsfm
Posts: 329
Hi,
I'm not really sure what to make of this...i know that its their store they can do what they want, if i dont like it dont buy it, or it probably sells so thats why they do it blah blah. But do some of these content creators out there realize that the facial feature that they love so much which they keep adding to all their new characters sometimes ends up making all their characters look a bit too similar to one another? Usually its the eyes, but i've also seen stuff like facial bone structure, render settings/lighting or even the poses used in their promo pics. The poses one is actually kind of funny because in that case the characters can be completely different, but because the creator used (or reused) such a unique pose that the characters look similar. Its not until the faces are more relaxed that they start to look different again.
This is not really a call for people to change, but its just an observation of mine when i was browsing on here and on Rendo for characters that i want to buy.
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Comments
you said it, there is probably a certain look that just sells
one user keeps moaning a favourite G3F character of his was not duplicated by the PA who made her, in fact he calls the other perfectly lovely characters ugly because they don't fit his ideal
I like to buy varied not beautiful characters myself
It's known as "same-facing," and almost everyone who creates character art is guilty of it, to some degree. You learn a way to do a face that looks okay, and then you stay within that comfort-zone while you work on perfecting your style. And yeah, some artists find a winning formula and use variations of that. Most people can spot a Thorne from a mile away, LOL! But they're so cute, though.
As far as I got told, perfect symmetrical characters are a lot easier/faster to create than those with a slight imperfection and probably sell better. So from vendor's view it might have a reason to go for those perfect symmetric beauties with flawless skin. So I don't think you can blame those artists for preferring to make money instead of spending several more hours for imperfect, but therefore unique characters.
I've also started once buying me some of those classic beauties.
Meanwhile I'm tired of them, when I scroll through my library and can't even tell the difference between some of them.
If I look for a fresh character now, I only buy those with a slight imperfection and asymmetry, that makes them unique. They just look so much more real in renders and I appreciate the artist's extra work on the details.
Boring sameness. Unique is far more interesting.
What makes me wonder is, why people seem to buy so many figures that look the same except for some minor details...
Yeah, sure.. textures... but very often even the textures are just a bunch of "same old, same old"...
So.. who needs a dozen cute little fairies, that just look as if they all came from the same litter, when there are morph packs available to buy (or even for free) that could be used to make slight modifications within a couple seconds to make them look at least as different as the sold figures themselves?!?
This is not unique to Daz's PAs. I used to work for a popular collectible doll magazine, and there was one German doll artist in particular whose dolls all looked very similar in the face (yet they were all lovely and she was very popular). Once I had the chance to meet her and was amazed - all her dolls looked a lot like her! LOL...
One goes with what one knows....sometimes ones own face. LOL.
Laurie
There's are a couple of lines of characters at Rendo where not only do the characters look similar, but in the promos they are posed and dressed the same way and use the same backgrounds. Even if there was a new face, it wouldn't be obvious at first glance.
I rarely buy ANY figure with the idea of using it as-is, the only real exception being stand-alone animals. That said, I've bought a huge number of figures just to use as base starting points, just for the textures and to use as a base on which to add my own morphs rather than dialing everything up from scratch. Which means that most of the the time I'm looking at everything as component parts and not the whole.
On the flip side, a lot of artists just have a cetain style they like and, while there's a lot of variation within that group, the overall stylization tends to make them look really similar to others. 3D Universe's characters are an obvious example here, but I can recognize a P3Design or Second Circle character instantly, As a non-3D analogy, I find that most of the "normal" characters in artwork by the legendary comic artist Jack Kirby all look really similar, especially the females, but that didn't stop him from developing hundreds of different titles over the years.
It's not so much symmetry...but it's more like they use the same facial features for different models like for example the same eyes. Sabby/Seven is the one that made me notice this first with the eyes that they use and Deva3d is another one. It's to the point now where if a new character comes up on Rendo or Daz i dont even need to look at the name, i can just tell by the particular character style who created it. There are other things too like how Marcius on Daz has a lot of ahem...thick (or is it thicc?)...characters which i dont mind. Or how Anagord has overexaggerated facial bone structures around the eyes. There was one on Daz who i cant remember but a few of their character poses the model had their eyes waaay opened up and kinda bug-eyed looking with their hand resting under their chin.
I immediately thought of SaSe when I first saw this thread. Every time a new character of theirs pops up, I think "wow, that looks great! ....and exactly like their other characters."
LOL. I also thought of Sabby, and in particular, FWSA. But yeah, I think most PAs tend to do the same.
yep, same here. Doesn't help when the promo setups all look the same also.
When I first saw SASE, I thought "Self-addressed stamped envelope? For what?"
hmm....i actually dont get that feeling with FWSA's characters. I guess since they are old/young good amount of male and females and also different races/skin color and stuff.
I hope the mods dont take this as "vendor-bashing" or anything like that. Maybe think of it more as feedback? i think i've bought a character or two from SaSe but its probably not a good thing for them if I dont want to buy any more of their characters because the ones that i own are too similar to the new ones they released. But i suppose for every return customer sale they lose there is always a new customer sale they will gain on their new products (even if they look a lot like their others).
Yeah, I've even seen that across vendors where I thought I already bought a character, but I didn't and own a very similar looking character.
I guess there's only so many ways to make a pretty, young thing and you're going to get coincidences and happy similarities.
Boring sameness. Unique is far more interesting.
I thought most of this was broken by buying from different vendors. I mean, there are SOOOOOO many characters available + morphs + plus, plus dials....hell, throw your own face on a character..
do some of these content creators out there realize that the facial feature that they love so much which they keep adding to all their new characters sometimes ends up making all their characters look a bit too similar to one another?
I think they do and it's on purpose. I know there are certain vendors that I collect from - and I am exactly going after a similar look.
And to be honest, I think it's mostly the hair that makes the difference once you get the base young and pretty look.
Even the cooky characters have 'sisters' or 'brothers' in the store.
I hope the mods don't take this as "vendor-bashing" or anything like that.
Then don't name names. That's the rude part, Like the mods mostly say, keep it on topic/concept and don't address the person -
In this case, it does sound like leveled complaints.
Maybe switch it around for Daz-Postive-vibes and PRAISE the vendors with a varied character offering, call them out and highlight what you want more of instead.
Just a thought.
There's always more than one way to present a point.
Thing is i'm a bit torn on giving my feedback directly to vendors. Will i end up talking to a vendor who is stubborn and will only change if it starts to affect their sales? or will i end up talking to one who will genuinely listen and try to expand/improve their selection instead of chasing the almighty dollar?
Another thing too is do we treat vendors like people or businesses? seems like some businesses respond better to public criticism. Cause instead of me sending a vendor a private message and getting ignored. If you say something on a public forum some people feel compelled to respond and either say "we will work on changing" or "we are comfortable with the way things are". If SaSe or anyone else were to read this thread and reply and say they will continue doing things the way they are doing i wouldnt mind that one bit. I would probably be happy that they took the time to address it publicly. And also its not as if people on the thread are saying "omg his stuff sucks so bad". On a technical level SaSe's products are really good. Its just that their characters have a lot of similarities between them. If they are unaware of this and it might be hurting their sales i want them to know.
Hey, at least SOMEBODY is making those characters.
Sometimes it is the "sameness" that brings me back to the same well. If you like a character type, and a PA loves creating that type and has enough buyers who like that type, then it works for them. It's probably analogues to story plots that get repeated over and over, with some twists.
I don't think it's bashing anyone to express opinions other than "OMG Instant buy!". PAs are here to sell their products. Sure, it's nice to hear praise, but they and their brokers alone know what their sales figures are. If they're doing great, then more power to them, and they should ignore criticism. Some of the stuff by certain PAs is so beautiful, I've bought it even if I don't have an immediate plan for it. I'll make a plan. But if their sales are leveling off, then maybe they should try changing their approach and see what (some vocal) customers have to say.
I wouldn't run my business based on the forums alone, that's for sure, but I wouldn't assume that what's worked in the past will keep customers returning forever, either.
I like new variations, but I collect characters.
I never use out-of-the-box beyond a test render, or if someone is querying some aspect of the character.
I used to post on a forum for a musical notation program where users could upload their compositions for rating, and I developed a reputation for “hating everything” just because I didn’t give every song the highest rating. Criticism is not the same as bashing in reality, but this is the Internet we’re talking about.
Will i end up talking to a vendor who is stubborn and will only change if it starts to affect their sales? or will i end up talking to one who will genuinely listen and try to expand/improve their selection instead of chasing the almighty dollar?
Wow, those are very caring thoughts that you worry about how it will go over. Vendors are artists first, business people second. Daz handles almost all of the heavy lifting so I would approach them as artists and accept that for most, this is their passion. Sounds silly, but I think it's mostly true. That said, approach with general courtesy.
"Hey, I love your style of figures. Any chance that you might explore other types of characters and looks? I'd love to see what you'd come up with if you......and made something/someone like.....
so that I could use a bunch of your characters in my upcoming or ongoing or.....or...."
That sounds positive....
And if they respond with any reason why they tried or didn't try or don't wanna try- you have to accept that as THEIR truth. And really, your side is only an opinion.
Only an opinion, no matter how right or righteous you think you might be. You believe what you believe because of your experiences and they believe what they believe because of theirs.
The fact that you CARE is huge. So, show them that you care and I'm sure it will go well either way.
It's "thicc" if you're talking about a solid rear end, and "thick" if you're referring to the cranium.
I always thought thiccness was more about overall body shape than just the donk.
All charcters are based on Genesis (1, 2, 3, 8), so are morphs. (I'm ignoring previous to Genesis.)
A huge number of characters are based off merchant resources; that doesn't make them bad. If I like a character, I buy, if I discover that they have the same texture with tweaks, I've been known to return them, but if I like those tweaks I don't usually bother.
I thought thiccness was what you got when thayed out in the ccold too long.
Betty & Veronica in Archie comics are literally identical except for hair...
I think every PA has a certain style and even Mousso’s characters start to look pretty similar but I can’t stop buying them, they are so gorgeous, and Thorne and 3DU’s characters are so cute... I don’t really mind each PA having their own style. Just like you can recognize a Picasso or a Van Gogh... And as others have said, I don’t use characters out of the box except for test renders or posts here. The fun is using them as a base and adding your own morphs. You can mix and match textures, mix character morphs or individual morphs... Try mixing a Mousso character with a Thorne character lol!
Just try not to imagine them having sex.