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Daz Studio Pro BETA - version 4.12.2.60! (*UPDATED*)

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  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Saxa -- SD said:
    L'Adair said:
     

    I found a big mistake in an image I did recently. I'd replaced the floor with a plane as I needed a larger area, and I'd moved it to barely intersect the doorsill of the set. Turns out, the doorsill had extra height, and my floor didn't come up to the bottom of the columns, leaving a gap. (Here's the final image, with the floor moved up.) By pinning the girl's hand in place, I was able to move her up without losing the placement over the cross piece. And by pinning the mother's hands to the girl's waist, I was able to move the mother's legs up without losing the placement of her hands. Redoing the pose was surprisingly easy, using Pins.

    Hey, Nice usage of pinning with posing to solve your problem quickly without having to repose several bones (or nodes as DS like to call them).  

    Pinning for posing is powerful and maybe an underused? tool.  Your practical use is one great example. And it let's me play and find new creative things hadn't even considered.  Loaded a dog just now had bought on sale a while back (prbly MM) cos I was curious about non-humanoids with tails, and pinned one back foot and drug the tailtip-bone, then dragged it further and whole body moves.  Can lead to a mess, but if your artistic you can see where the realism of the look starts to fall apart, and back off a smidge.  In other programs you could make controllers for things, like kneees, feet and so on defining the realtionships..  But DS really works well right out of the box for humanoids.  Click on bone (node) and manipulate and solver kicks in. The dog tail IK was decent and with pinning would go quick too for posing. 

    L'Adair said:

    Okay. I've taken a few minutes to try a couple other products: Daz Dragon 3, Daz Housecat (without the new hair,) and one of the Worms from Mechasar. In every case, pinning a bone in 4.11 before saving caused 4.12 to create the ik_[bone] entry when loading. And caused 4.12 to crash when saving.

    L'Adair, are you animating too, or just posing? 

    Am focussed on other things ATM, so curious, that if you do ALL your work in 4.12 re: pinning does it still crash on save? Or is just a 4.11 > 4.12?  If the latter would guess it's all the under the hood changes.  Myself would clear out pins after pose is done, just so while it is fresh I remember to remove all pins before saving, as they served their purpose, and are no longer needed.  But maybe you are animating too and looking for ways?

    See the animation gurus are taking you into the deep end of IK.  Have fun! smiley Will bookmark IVY's explanation so when I finally get to stage am ready to test animating in DazStudio, I can do it really quickly with these nice instructions, without having to figure out the right order of doing things.  Thanks Ivy. 

     

    Thank you. But truth be told, I always thought that's what pinning was for! blush

    I've not done any animating. I never used the Timeline until I started working with dForce.

    The problem with IK and 4.12 crashing on save has to do with the way previous versions of DS saved IK information. I've not heard of 4.12 crashing on save with anything created in 4.12.

    Here's what they said about it in the Beta Change Log, (emphasis is mine):

    • Fixed an issue with loading (and then attempting to re-save) scenes that were saved with IK pins active prior to 4.12.x; IK pins were erroneously being saved (incompletely) in prior builds, causing recently added intentional support for temporary/transient IK Chain saving/loading to be improperly defined and therefore crash during subsequent attempts to save

    That fix will be in the next beta release, but I've no idea when that will be. 

  • Leonides02Leonides02 Posts: 1,379
    edited August 2019

    Does anyone else have the dForce Adventurer Knight for Genesis 8 Male(s)?

    In the BETA, I can't apply it to a character and then apply a pose. It causes DAZ to hang. 

    I've opened a ticket.

    Post edited by Leonides02 on
  • hamadahmadhamadahmad Posts: 12

    this might be dumb of me but can someone tell me how to download and install daz studio 4.12.0.42!

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153

    I have a couple of issues I want to report.

    1) hand Keyframes animations won't bake to the timeline when using animate2 to bake the animation.   I tried baking my keyframes 3 ways to sunday it it would not bake or take

    2) same thing happens for trying to create a aniblock , bake and create options does not bake the animation into the aniblock so you left with a partial working aniblock. see screen shot

    3) when saving animation in AVI format with denaoiser turned on daz studio crashes everytime when the rendering has finshed and you click save to save the AVI . it does not crash if denoiser is turned off , there is nothing in the log file showing the cause of the crash on save because daz does not log the crash error

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  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    Ivy said:

    I have a couple of issues I want to report.

    1) hand Keyframes animations won't bake to the timeline when using animate2 to bake the animation.   I tried baking my keyframes 3 ways to sunday it it would not bake or take

    2) same thing happens for trying to create a aniblock , bake and create options does not bake the animation into the aniblock so you left with a partial working aniblock. see screen shot

    3) when saving animation in AVI format with denaoiser turned on daz studio crashes everytime when the rendering has finshed and you click save to save the AVI . it does not crash if denoiser is turned off , there is nothing in the log file showing the cause of the crash on save because daz does not log the crash error

     The forums are peer to peer. file your report Here

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    edited August 2019
    hamadahmad751 said:

    this might be dumb of me but can someone tell me how to download and install daz studio 4.12.0.42!

    @hamadahmad751, It's always a mystery for users who want to get started with the Beta, so no, not a dumb question.

    Here's the answer, complete for any who might be searching the forums for the same answer:

    1. Like all products at Daz, free or not, you have to purchase the Beta. Just put it in the cart and checkout. That puts the product in your Account and makes it available to install.
    2. The beta requires you use the Daz Install Manager, (DIM) to install. If you do not have DIM installed, you'll need to do that first.
    3. Open and Log On to DIM.
    4. When DIM is through connecting, type Public in the filter field in the upper right corner. (at this point, you shouldn't see much of anything.)
    5. On the Ready to Download tab, click on the button labeled Download Filters. (This will open the settings dialog directly to the Downloads tab.)
    6. Scroll down to the Public Build option and enable it, (click in the checkbox.)
    7. Click on the green Accept button at the bottom of the dialog window.
    8. You should now see a list of files with Public Build highlighted.
    9. Select these files
    10. Make sure the Install After Download option is checked.
    11. Click on the green Start Queue button on the bottom left of the DIM window.
    12. After all the files have been downloaded and installed, clear the search filter, (delete the text, Public.)

    There you go.

    Have fun with the Beta!

    Post edited by L'Adair on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    edited August 2019
    Ivy said:

    it will be useful for posing too if your using deforce on the timeline to drap the cloth you can create a IK-chain for the clothing you need to pose and it will act like a bone that can be manipulated & translated. smiley  I agree with L'Adair , so much to learn so little time wink

    Cos I am not really working on this now, kinda hesitate to ask.  But since topic is here and so are you smiley will ask anyway.

    When I worked with the puppy-dog tail for a few minutes yesterday, I opened up the time-line, and made some keyframes, using the pinning to assist in locking some of the tail sections in place.  Wanted to see how this would look in time-line.  Afterwards removed the pin.  Thought it went well, but just scrubbed timeline for quick check, cos just so short on time.  If these pinned poses in the timeline (or keyframes) are not causing crashing, what would the advantages be of using the custom IK-Chain over using what is already there for bone hierarchy with temp use of pins?  Isn't usually the bone hierarchy enough?  Likely am missing something here.

    That does sound interesting about custom bones in the draping cloth to control descent.  My first instict would probably be to add "transparent" primitives to assist as additional collision objects, cos I like the suprising unexpected results, or I still got to make time to use the dforce magnet which is similar to that.  Gawd, so much to do - lol joining the chorus.  What would you say the advantge or difference would be using those bones as you described and animating?  My first guess is more control for those artists lucky enough to be able to envision exactly the look they want before.  Want to make sure I really understand the benefits of the IK the way you are doing it.

     

    L'Adair said:

    Thank you. But truth be told, I always thought that's what pinning was for! blush

    LOL. Touché.  What I meant in a really short way with my previous sentence that you really showed well the extent to which a pinning can speed up fixing an issue, and your image really showed the complexity of the mum & daughter pose in relation to the door with the window dividers.   I just do get excited by seeing how quick something like that can be fixed with that kind of a shortcut.  Guess, just my bubbly enthusiasm for that kind of stuff to speed things up. blush  Should have writen this latter part instead.  My technical shorthand coming from another workworld I guess.  Sorry if it came across as anything else.

    L'Adair said:

    I've not done any animating. I never used the Timeline until I started working with dForce.

    The problem with IK and 4.12 crashing on save has to do with the way previous versions of DS saved IK information. I've not heard of 4.12 crashing on save with anything created in 4.12.

    OK, good to know that 4.12 seems fine.  Was a bit confused if in some situations custom bones (nodes) in 4.12 was also causing hiccups for some users.   Thanks!

     

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Saxa -- SD said:
     
    L'Adair said:

    The problem with IK and 4.12 crashing on save has to do with the way previous versions of DS saved IK information. I've not heard of 4.12 crashing on save with anything created in 4.12.

    OK, good to know that 4.12 seems fine.  Was a bit confused if in some situations custom bones (nodes) in 4.12 was also causing hiccups for some users.   Thanks!

    As far as I know, the only real issue was with the Pins, but I only know what I've read in here. Betas do tend to have issues, so something else could crop up. (I used to date a software engineer who said for every bug he fixed, it created two more! lol)

    The IK Chains are new with 4.12, found in the main menu, under Create. (Probably a few other ways to do so, knowing DS.) I haven't tried playing with them. Until Ivy's post, I didn't even know such a thing existed! As I said, I don't do animations, but it will be interesting to see how useful they can be with dforce.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019
    Saxa -- SD said:
    , what would the advantages be of using the custom IK-Chain over using what is already there for bone hierarchy with temp use of pins?  Isn't usually the bone hierarchy enough?  Likely am missing something here.

      Want to make sure I really understand the benefits of the IK the way you are doing it

    wow that is a lot to answer..lol How can I explain it to you with out confusing you ..lol

    IK Solvers are more geared for animation use, Its used for refined posing of the bones and joints.   If you were to pin a bone or joint together on the keyframe on the timeline, it will freeze or pin that bone or joint in place keep it from moving, hance the reason for pinning something in place.   you would not want that if you trying to make something move, so pinning something in animation use is more useful for keeping a joint or bone from bending or following a translation.  you would really not want to pin those X-Y-Z translations in animation cycle,

    The way I am using The New Daz Ik , If you notice most of daz characters already have bones and joints that are already rigged with dials , such as the neck, head,legs arms hand etc. Now you could just use those bone & joint dials to pose or create animation with your characters along the timeline by creating movement for each keyframe. or now with the New Daz IK Solver you can create a IK chain to match the bones you are translating along the timeline as helpers. the Daz IK Solver has the same X-Y-Z translations as the rigged bones that already come with the characters .So using that new Ik chain you created that is parented to the bone you can create more refined dial controls over the joints and on the timeline .  an example would be you would create a ik chain going from the hip to the foot bone placing the handle on the foot,once that is done  you can manually pin( remember pining means keep in place) the ik chain of the foot to match the value of the level of  a hard surface you want your fot to remain at. such as a ground or floor or stairs keeping the feet pinned at that value (y) surface level.  but here is the fun part The bone rigging is not pinned its parented so it allows the foot to translate & move freely only the ik chain of the foot is pinned to surface value keeping your characters feet on the surface level during animation cyccle.  , With a IK Solvers you would also be able to edit the hip bone translations to off set any foot slipping you may get when keyframing a walk cycle or other action cycle when you use the skeletons bones instead of having to keep going back to the joint editor to fix those issues which speed up a work flow for working with the timeline.

    Also you can use the IK solver to create rigging where rigging did not exist before,  but that would be another subject.   It would take me years to teach you everything there is in a Daz Animation..lol I've been working with daz animation for almost 10 years

    Anyway long story shot. The IK Solver is a tool to use for refine posing and I believe its would be more useful to animators, IMO for the reason its helpful to edit motion and fix or create rigging issues. you make the edits to the ik-chian on the timeline and in the parameters tab for the value for each chain that corresponds to the keyframe you assign. , Timelines and parameters are is where animators work to make motion. . I am not sure if rendering still art if you would need all that, unless your maybe using it to fix poses used for draping with deforce on the timeline.

     I hope that was not to confusing, I am still learning this stuff myself

    here is a recent animation I did you might like, no pins used..wink

    Click pic to play

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Trash PandaTrash Panda Posts: 111

    So if I create an IK chain for the pelvis and parent it to the pelvis, then click on the "pin translation and "pin rotation. Then use active pose tool, should the pelvis stay in place? Right now if I use the active pose tool with the IK chain in say frame 15 it still moves the pelvis. 

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019

    It depends are you translating the ik chain or the bone the bone will translate the ik-chain should not- unless you places keyframe at frame 15 before you pinned it

     this is how I pin a ik chain.  I use it to pin the foot to the floor prop so the feet will stay to the floor  even though the foot bone it self still moves freely I start with the hip or pelvis then the thigh and shin etc.

    I'm not sure what going on I would properly need to see what your doing ,   as I am still trying to learn this myself. Maya has one click solutions to make this easier

     here is a quick screen shot on parenting & pinning a ik chain , once i learn this I'll do a webinar

     

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    Post edited by Ivy on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019

    I had another hard crash with the denoiser turn on after rendering grr , very unstable with the denoiser enabled also I have been getting a lot of IK warning I am not sure if that has anything to do with the crashes.

     

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    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Trash PandaTrash Panda Posts: 111

    Well I'm hoping there will be some sort of guide/videos for it when it is out of beta. I am really lost in how to actually use it and what it can and should be used for. 

    It would be a shame to have a bunch of people not knowing how to use the new IK chain thing. I'm sure that DAZ spent a lot of money developing it.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 23,133
    Trash Panda said:

    Well I'm hoping there will be some sort of guide/videos for it when it is out of beta. I am really lost in how to actually use it and what it can and should be used for. 

    It would be a shame to have a bunch of people not knowing how to use the new IK chain thing. I'm sure that DAZ spent a lot of money developing it.

    Well...4.11 is out of Beta, but I still can't find any official Daz documentation on the Strand-Based Hair Editor that was added to 4.11.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019
    Trash Panda said:

    Well I'm hoping there will be some sort of guide/videos for it when it is out of beta. I am really lost in how to actually use it and what it can and should be used for. 

    It would be a shame to have a bunch of people not knowing how to use the new IK chain thing. I'm sure that DAZ spent a lot of money developing it.

    I totally agree with you , everything I am learning is from what I am applying from Maya  , which has 1 click solutions.  some documentation would be very helpful in deed.

    I almost have my dragon demo done animated in daz 12 after abut 15 crashes..lol

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Trash PandaTrash Panda Posts: 111
    Ivy said:
    Trash Panda said:

    Well I'm hoping there will be some sort of guide/videos for it when it is out of beta. I am really lost in how to actually use it and what it can and should be used for. 

    It would be a shame to have a bunch of people not knowing how to use the new IK chain thing. I'm sure that DAZ spent a lot of money developing it.

    I totally agree with you , everything I am learning is from what I am applying from Maya  , which has 1 click solutions.  some documentation would be very helpful in deed.

    I almost have my dragon demo done animated in daz 12 after abut 15 crashes..lol

    Lol sounds brutal. Would like to see the demo when you're done. 

    barbult said:
    Trash Panda said:

    Well I'm hoping there will be some sort of guide/videos for it when it is out of beta. I am really lost in how to actually use it and what it can and should be used for. 

    It would be a shame to have a bunch of people not knowing how to use the new IK chain thing. I'm sure that DAZ spent a lot of money developing it.

    Well...4.11 is out of Beta, but I still can't find any official Daz documentation on the Strand-Based Hair Editor that was added to 4.11.

    Lol that is true. But at least the Strand-Based Hair Editor is a bit more inuitive. 

  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871

     

    L'Adair said:

     (I used to date a software engineer who said for every bug he fixed, it created two more! lol)

    Hmm.  That kinda sounds like my Daz buying habits.  Buy one, all of a sudden need to buy two more (at least) to compliment the 1st buy.  Maybe this is a universe thing about getting into complicated things? surprise devil

     

    Ivy said:

    wow that is a lot to answer..lol How can I explain it to you with out confusing you ..lol

    ...

    here is a recent animation I did you might like, no pins used..wink

    Click pic to play

    That video is super cute & fun.  Hair & dress movement really added to the presentation for me (and your choice of scene length and action alonbg with the catchy tunes).  Thanks for sharing it Ivy!   smiley

    If the Daz IK solvers work well with specified pararmeter values for automatic foot(wear) to hard surface like even ground that would be definately be a big help.  Remember reading here and there when I was evaluating Daz for my use and seeing deep sighs and wishes for this to work better in past DS versions.   How did you find the 4.12 IK solvers for this? 

    Have made my own IK handles in the past in 3D anim program, so less confused and will be SOON trying to figure out what Daz can and can't do in the anim dept, and what tools are needed for that.  Am finalizing getting my runtime setup  with large selection of complete assets for quick load and getting lighting/scenes/rendering optimized best as can with this evolving RTX-IRAY development situation for the forseeable future.

    Think for me to fully understand the intricate advantages of IK chains as helpers for existing hierarchial bones (nodes) will need to play with it.  For repetitive motion like walking on hard surfaces can really see benefit, if DS IK solver works well for this?  For less repetitive, and more dynamic, will be interested to see what will work better for me and the way i like to create, including keyframes. 

    Nice thing with timeline, is it doesn't care if I pinned this and that bone, cos I just use the pins to create a certain restricted motion for certain bones, and with the "super fast select bone/press spacebar/get colored pin visual feedback as to status", I can quickly unpin again and what is left in anim timeline is the keyframed motion I was after.  Downside being if I need to tweak any keyframes would need to repin while tweaking and delete pins again afterwards. 

    And thanks for writing all that up!! Appreciate it! 

    Now know that I need to see the formal IK chain as a helper alongside the existing bone chain which also has it's own IK solver (when using universal tool, activepose possibly not>?).  Just will have to play with it to figure out what works best for me. Gives me a great place to start evaluating.  Thanks alot!

     

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019
    Trash Panda said:
    Ivy said:
     

    I almost have my dragon demo done animated in daz 12 after abut 15 crashes..lol

    Lol sounds brutal. Would like to see the demo when you're done. \

    I'll post it here when it done for you all to see,  Daz 12 renders fast . but wow is it unstable.

    here s a cute one I did with the fludios plugin click pic to play

    Oh I had another crash this time when i was loading a scene i had been working on earlier and i got a ton of those asset missing warning i never seen before. the second time i loaded it it was fine. was it a clitch?

    2019-08-04 01:07:55.956 *** Scene Cleared ***
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.774 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail1:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail1?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail1:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail1?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail1:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail1?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail1:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail1?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail1:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail1?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail1:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail1?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail2:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail2?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail2:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail2?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.775 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail2:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail2?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail2:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail2?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail2:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail2?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail2:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail2?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail3:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail3?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail3:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail3?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail3:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail3?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail3:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail3?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail3:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail3?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.776 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail3:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail3?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail4:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail4?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail4:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail4?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail4:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail4?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail4:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail4?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail4:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail4?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail4:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail4?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail5:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail5?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail5:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail5?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.777 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail5:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail5?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail5:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail5?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail5:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail5?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail5:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail5?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail6:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail6?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail6:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail6?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail6:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail6?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail6:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail6?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.778 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail6:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail6?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail6:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail6?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail7:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail7?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail7:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail7?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail7:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail7?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail7:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail7?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail7:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail7?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail7:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail7?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail8:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail8?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.779 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail8:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail8?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail8:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail8?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail8:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail8?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail8:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail8?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail8:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail8?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail9:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail9?center_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail9:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail9?center_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail9:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail9?center_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail9:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail9?end_point/x in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.780 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail9:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail9?end_point/y in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.781 WARNING: ..\..\..\..\..\src\sdksource\fileinput\dzassetdaz.cpp(5759): Could not find output property for formula: Tail9:/data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Dragon.dsf#Tail9?end_point/z in file : /data/DAZ%203D/DAZ%20Dragon%203/Base/Morphs/3D%20Universe/MythicalDragon3/FBM3duMythicalDragon.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.788 File loaded in 0 min 0.8 sec.
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.790 Loaded file: defualt dragon.duf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded Morph Deltas in 0 min 0.0 sec.
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded file: CTRLrWingFingersCurl.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded Morph Deltas in 0 min 0.0 sec.
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded file: CTRLlWingFingersCurl.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded Morph Deltas in 0 min 0.0 sec.
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded file: CTRLNeckSCurveUp.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded Morph Deltas in 0 min 0.0 sec.
    2019-08-04 01:07:56.890 Loaded file: CTRLNeckSCurveBend.dsf
    2019-08-04 01:07:57.440 Loaded image Dragon_Body_GreenMarkings.jpg
    2019-08-04 01:07:57.840 Loaded image Dragon_Wings_Green.jpg
    2019-08-04 01:07:58.020 Loaded image Dragon_Head_Green.jpg

     

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019
    Saxa -- SD said:

     

    L'Adair said:

     (I used to date a software engineer who said for every bug he fixed, it created two more! lol)

    Hmm.  That kinda sounds like my Daz buying habits.  Buy one, all of a sudden need to buy two more (at least) to compliment the 1st buy.  Maybe this is a universe thing about getting into complicated things? surprise devil

     

    Ivy said:

    wow that is a lot to answer..lol How can I explain it to you with out confusing you ..lol

    ...

    here is a recent animation I did you might like, no pins used..wink

    Click pic to play

    That video is super cute & fun.  Hair & dress movement really added to the presentation for me (and your choice of scene length and action alonbg with the catchy tunes).  Thanks for sharing it Ivy!   smiley

    If the Daz IK solvers work well with specified pararmeter values for automatic foot(wear) to hard surface like even ground that would be definately be a big help.  Remember reading here and there when I was evaluating Daz for my use and seeing deep sighs and wishes for this to work better in past DS versions.   How did you find the 4.12 IK solvers for this? 

    Have made my own IK handles in the past in 3D anim program, so less confused and will be SOON trying to figure out what Daz can and can't do in the anim dept, and what tools are needed for that.  Am finalizing getting my runtime setup  with large selection of complete assets for quick load and getting lighting/scenes/rendering optimized best as can with this evolving RTX-IRAY development situation for the forseeable future.

    Think for me to fully understand the intricate advantages of IK chains as helpers for existing hierarchial bones (nodes) will need to play with it.  For repetitive motion like walking on hard surfaces can really see benefit, if DS IK solver works well for this?  For less repetitive, and more dynamic, will be interested to see what will work better for me and the way i like to create, including keyframes. 

    Nice thing with timeline, is it doesn't care if I pinned this and that bone, cos I just use the pins to create a certain restricted motion for certain bones, and with the "super fast select bone/press spacebar/get colored pin visual feedback as to status", I can quickly unpin again and what is left in anim timeline is the keyframed motion I was after.  Downside being if I need to tweak any keyframes would need to repin while tweaking and delete pins again afterwards. 

    And thanks for writing all that up!! Appreciate it! 

    Now know that I need to see the formal IK chain as a helper alongside the existing bone chain which also has it's own IK solver (when using universal tool, activepose possibly not>?).  Just will have to play with it to figure out what works best for me. Gives me a great place to start evaluating.  Thanks alot!

     

    Its all a work in progress like I said there is no documents for new daz IK chain so I am trying to apply what I know of maya to daz . so some stuff works out & some stuff don't .  I have some issues with pinning bones rotations compared to translation,  its hit or missreally  it can drive you crazyworking with out documents..lol  I learn best by doing so until i get it figured out or daz offers some docs  its going to be learning by doing .I had to learn how to manipulate the X-Y-Z  on the timeline to match the character rig and how to refine that before i can move on first., I should be able to import fxb a custom made character from 3ds or maya and use the ik chain system to rig it like in maya, but i have not got that far yet. trail and error

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    Ivy said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

     

    L'Adair said:

     (I used to date a software engineer who said for every bug he fixed, it created two more! lol)

    Hmm.  That kinda sounds like my Daz buying habits.  Buy one, all of a sudden need to buy two more (at least) to compliment the 1st buy.  Maybe this is a universe thing about getting into complicated things? surprise devil

     

    Ivy said:

    wow that is a lot to answer..lol How can I explain it to you with out confusing you ..lol

    ...

    here is a recent animation I did you might like, no pins used..wink

    Click pic to play

    That video is super cute & fun.  Hair & dress movement really added to the presentation for me (and your choice of scene length and action alonbg with the catchy tunes).  Thanks for sharing it Ivy!   smiley

    If the Daz IK solvers work well with specified pararmeter values for automatic foot(wear) to hard surface like even ground that would be definately be a big help.  Remember reading here and there when I was evaluating Daz for my use and seeing deep sighs and wishes for this to work better in past DS versions.   How did you find the 4.12 IK solvers for this? 

    Have made my own IK handles in the past in 3D anim program, so less confused and will be SOON trying to figure out what Daz can and can't do in the anim dept, and what tools are needed for that.  Am finalizing getting my runtime setup  with large selection of complete assets for quick load and getting lighting/scenes/rendering optimized best as can with this evolving RTX-IRAY development situation for the forseeable future.

    Think for me to fully understand the intricate advantages of IK chains as helpers for existing hierarchial bones (nodes) will need to play with it.  For repetitive motion like walking on hard surfaces can really see benefit, if DS IK solver works well for this?  For less repetitive, and more dynamic, will be interested to see what will work better for me and the way i like to create, including keyframes. 

    Nice thing with timeline, is it doesn't care if I pinned this and that bone, cos I just use the pins to create a certain restricted motion for certain bones, and with the "super fast select bone/press spacebar/get colored pin visual feedback as to status", I can quickly unpin again and what is left in anim timeline is the keyframed motion I was after.  Downside being if I need to tweak any keyframes would need to repin while tweaking and delete pins again afterwards. 

    And thanks for writing all that up!! Appreciate it! 

    Now know that I need to see the formal IK chain as a helper alongside the existing bone chain which also has it's own IK solver (when using universal tool, activepose possibly not>?).  Just will have to play with it to figure out what works best for me. Gives me a great place to start evaluating.  Thanks alot!

     

    Its all a work in progress like I said there is no documents for new daz IK chain so I am trying to apply what I know of maya to daz . so some stuff works out & some stuff don't . 

    ...

    I had to learn how to manipulate the X-Y-Z  on the timeline to match the character rig and how to refine that before i can move on first

    Mmmm. From my experience, that's more often a ton of intense (and frustrating) work to figure out without documentation.  Especially things like matching X-Y-Z to rig.  Just have to have one setting off, and the trial and error is just sitting there doing nothing just haunts me.

    Ivy said:

    I have some issues with pinning bones rotations compared to translation, 

    Am Curious.  Do you unlock all your figures first?  Wondering if limits cos issues or help more as backstops.  Unlock my figures.  So far so good last few days that I played with IK posing.

    Do you have any image samples of where you are using DS4.12 with universal tool, where this issue shows up?  That's something I do have time for off and on in next while.  Smaller project like that where can see if i get same or if we can maybe figure out together?  Though maybe would have to start a new thread in technical sub-forum?  As not sure at what point this is OT for Beta 4.12.

    Ivy said:

    its hit or missreally  it can drive you crazyworking with out documents..lol  I learn best by doing so until i get it figured out or daz offers some docs  its going to be learning by doing .., I should be able to import fxb a custom made character from 3ds or maya and use the ik chain system to rig it like in maya, but i have not got that far yet. trail and error

    Don't mind a decent amount of trial by fire.  LOL, But sounds like your doing more than I could handle.  The amount of time that takes drives me crazy.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,476
    edited August 2019
    Saxa -- SD said:

    What would you say the advantge or difference would be using those bones as you described and animating? .. Want to make sure I really understand the benefits of the IK the way you are doing it.

    In short pins are for posing and they are intended to be temporary, they only affect the keyframe you work in. The new IK tools are for animation, they persist in the timeline and they affect all the keyframes even if you don't bake them. What this does mean is that a IK chain will always keep the IK target in place during animation so you have complete control over it. A pin will not keep the target in place unless you bake every single frame.

    You can still using pins in animation where you don't need the IK target to stay in place. They are intended to pose FK chains. For example hands may grab something during the animation and feet usually needs to stay on the ground, so you need to control their position with IK chains. A tail doesn't grab anything and just needs to flip around so you can pose it using pins.

    Post edited by Padone on
  • Saxa -- SDSaxa -- SD Posts: 871
    edited August 2019
    Padone said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    What would you say the advantge or difference would be using those bones as you described and animating? .. Want to make sure I really understand the benefits of the IK the way you are doing it.

    In short pins are for posing and they are intended to be temporary, they only affect the keyframe you work in. The new IK tools are for animation, they persist in the timeline and they affect all the keyframes even if you don't bake them. What this does mean is that a IK chain will always keep the IK target in place during animation so you have complete control over it. A pin will not keep the target in place unless you bake every single frame.

    Thanks.  To me that is a very nice concise technical description.  It's exactly what I drew, in part, from Ivy's really generous overview of how she is using it.  Still left leaning towards believing "IK-chain-helper" (my new nickname for this) is especially handy for more regular type motion you want repeated over a longer length in the time-line, such as walking and keeping feet on hard surface, or maybe the arm arcs a certain distance away from hip each arm-swing.   Do you have any special uses that you wouldn't include in the description of more regular motion over a longer time-line period?  Tend to evaluate thiis stuff from what can I as an artist do with it, as opposed to the other way, that I happen to enjoy how i do it it.  But always looking for time-savers.

    Post edited by Saxa -- SD on
  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,476
    edited August 2019
    Saxa -- SD said:

    Do you have any special uses that you wouldn't include in the description of more regular motion over a longer time-line period?  Tend to evaluate thiis stuff from what can I as an artist do with it ..

    Personally I use blender for rendering and animation so my description comes from being already used to pins (auto-ik on blender) and ik chains. So no I tend not to use ik chains for fk posing since pins are more flexible for it. The advantage of pins over ik chains is that in pins the ik goal is dynamic, that means you just grab and pull whatever you want, this makes them better for fk posing.

    Post edited by Padone on
  • nicsttnicstt Posts: 11,714
    Ivy said:
    Saxa -- SD said:
    , what would the advantages be of using the custom IK-Chain over using what is already there for bone hierarchy with temp use of pins?  Isn't usually the bone hierarchy enough?  Likely am missing something here.

      Want to make sure I really understand the benefits of the IK the way you are doing it

    wow that is a lot to answer..lol How can I explain it to you with out confusing you ..lol

    IK Solvers are more geared for animation use, Its used for refined posing of the bones and joints.   If you were to pin a bone or joint together on the keyframe on the timeline, it will freeze or pin that bone or joint in place keep it from moving, hance the reason for pinning something in place.   you would not want that if you trying to make something move, so pinning something in animation use is more useful for keeping a joint or bone from bending or following a translation.  you would really not want to pin those X-Y-Z translations in animation cycle,

    The way I am using The New Daz Ik , If you notice most of daz characters already have bones and joints that are already rigged with dials , such as the neck, head,legs arms hand etc. Now you could just use those bone & joint dials to pose or create animation with your characters along the timeline by creating movement for each keyframe. or now with the New Daz IK Solver you can create a IK chain to match the bones you are translating along the timeline as helpers. the Daz IK Solver has the same X-Y-Z translations as the rigged bones that already come with the characters .So using that new Ik chain you created that is parented to the bone you can create more refined dial controls over the joints and on the timeline .  an example would be you would create a ik chain going from the hip to the foot bone placing the handle on the foot,once that is done  you can manually pin( remember pining means keep in place) the ik chain of the foot to match the value of the level of  a hard surface you want your fot to remain at. such as a ground or floor or stairs keeping the feet pinned at that value (y) surface level.  but here is the fun part The bone rigging is not pinned its parented so it allows the foot to translate & move freely only the ik chain of the foot is pinned to surface value keeping your characters feet on the surface level during animation cyccle.  , With a IK Solvers you would also be able to edit the hip bone translations to off set any foot slipping you may get when keyframing a walk cycle or other action cycle when you use the skeletons bones instead of having to keep going back to the joint editor to fix those issues which speed up a work flow for working with the timeline.

    Also you can use the IK solver to create rigging where rigging did not exist before,  but that would be another subject.   It would take me years to teach you everything there is in a Daz Animation..lol I've been working with daz animation for almost 10 years

    Anyway long story shot. The IK Solver is a tool to use for refine posing and I believe its would be more useful to animators, IMO for the reason its helpful to edit motion and fix or create rigging issues. you make the edits to the ik-chian on the timeline and in the parameters tab for the value for each chain that corresponds to the keyframe you assign. , Timelines and parameters are is where animators work to make motion. . I am not sure if rendering still art if you would need all that, unless your maybe using it to fix poses used for draping with deforce on the timeline.

     I hope that was not to confusing, I am still learning this stuff myself

    here is a recent animation I did you might like, no pins used..wink

    Click pic to play

    Nice vid; the music is odly appropriate.

  • IvyIvy Posts: 7,153
    edited August 2019
    Padone said:
    Saxa -- SD said:

    What would you say the advantge or difference would be using those bones as you described and animating? .. Want to make sure I really understand the benefits of the IK the way you are doing it.

    In short pins are for posing and they are intended to be temporary, they only affect the keyframe you work in. The new IK tools are for animation, they persist in the timeline and they affect all the keyframes even if you don't bake them. What this does mean is that a IK chain will always keep the IK target in place during animation so you have complete control over it. A pin will not keep the target in place unless you bake every single frame.

    You can still using pins in animation where you don't need the IK target to stay in place. They are intended to pose FK chains. For example hands may grab something during the animation and feet usually needs to stay on the ground, so you need to control their position with IK chains. A tail doesn't grab anything and just needs to flip around so you can pose it using pins.

     

     

    Maya also have autofollow for the IK/fk chains as well so everything ive learned there I have tried to make work on daz IK chains which I am finding you almost have to do everythin manually, where as Maya also has a 1 click hard surface solution tool too for creating IK chains for pinning to hard surfaces where as in Daz IK you have to manually create the chain an parent & pin the chains where needed ..  It would make knowing how to use daz's IK solver much easier if we had some basic doc and where to find everything.  instead of seek and find approach

     I also use IK for joint rotation for long tails on cats dogs and dragon tp refine the dials for those bones,  I would create a IK chain for conforming hair that is long & has limitations on dial for movement morphs

    @Saxa -- SD

    I do have to shut off limits of joints most of the time when i am animating.

    @nicstt Thank you very much , I just got lucky picking the right music  :)

    Post edited by Ivy on
  • ChoholeChohole Posts: 33,604
    Trash Panda said:

    So if I create an IK chain for the pelvis and parent it to the pelvis, then click on the "pin translation and "pin rotation. Then use active pose tool, should the pelvis stay in place? Right now if I use the active pose tool with the IK chain in say frame 15 it still moves the pelvis. 

    I am told that The IK system (in conjunction with the Universal [and derived] tools, and the Pose tool) in Daz Studio are separate from the ActivePose tool.

  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 17,926

    So what is this 'ActivePose' Tool? I see only a 'PowerPose' tool and a 'Puppeteer' tool? Without current documentation I'm not going to hazard a guess.

  • PadonePadone Posts: 3,476
    nonesuch00 said:

    So what is this 'ActivePose' Tool? I see only a 'PowerPose' tool and a 'Puppeteer' tool? Without current documentation I'm not going to hazard a guess.

    Powerpose is just a "joystick" system to pose bones instead of using sliders, it is most useful with bone-based facial expressions in my opinion.

    The active pose tool is a step forward and it allows to pose fk chains by using dynamic ik, that means you grab anywhere you want and the ik chain follows, it is most useful to pose a character when you don't need to animate. Or it can be used to pose fk chains in animation.

    The new ik system is to define ik chains that you can use in animation. These chains are not dynamic so the ik structure of the caharacter is defined on the rest pose.

    Puppeteer is a tool to define hand-made mocaps, so it is a quick alternative for fast animation and within its limits it's very effective in my opinion.

    So, each tool has its own domain of application and they can be used together. I'd use ik chains for animation together with the active pose tool to pose fk chains, then powerpose for bone-based expressions. While puppetter can be used for any quick animation based on "loops" between pre-made poses.

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    Padone said:
    nonesuch00 said:

    So what is this 'ActivePose' Tool? I see only a 'PowerPose' tool and a 'Puppeteer' tool? Without current documentation I'm not going to hazard a guess.

    Powerpose is just a "joystick" system to pose bones instead of using sliders, it is most useful with bone-based facial expressions in my opinion.

    The active pose tool is a step forward and it allows to pose fk chains by using dynamic ik, that means you grab anywhere you want and the ik chain follows, it is most useful to pose a character when you don't need to animate. Or it can be used to pose fk chains in animation.

    The new ik system is to define ik chains that you can use in animation. These chains are not dynamic so the ik structure of the caharacter is defined on the rest pose.

    Puppeteer is a tool to define hand-made mocaps, so it is a quick alternative for fast animation and within its limits it's very effective in my opinion.

    So, each tool has its own domain of application and they can be used together. I'd use ik chains for animation together with the active pose tool to pose fk chains, then powerpose for bone-based expressions. While puppetter can be used for any quick animation based on "loops" between pre-made poses.

    I think my head hurts, now.

    (But I'm sure the information will all sink in, eventually!)

    Thank you for the explanation.

  • marblemarble Posts: 7,449

    OK, so I watched this little video explaining FK and IK and it mosly makes sense to me.

    What I don't get is some of the terminology used in this thread, such as:

    IK Solvers

    Dynamic IK (and how that differs from non-dynamic IK)

    Helpers

    I'm also still not clear on if and when to use pins (I thought I had it but I didn't).

    Lastly, I am not sure I fully understand what IK chains are. I thought the they were the nominated bones in a heirarchy to be included in a chain but now I suspect that the chains are only references to the bones and not the bones themselves. Again, I'm not even sure that I'm stating my limited understanding correctly. Not the actual bones but ... well, what are they ... targets? If I look at a tutorial video on IK chains in Blender (see below), the instructor seems to be selecting the actual bones to include in an IK chain but that does not appear to be the case in the screenshots I've seen of the new DAZ Studio IK system (I guess more will become clear when I can actually play with 4.12 when I have access to my PC).

     

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