More Male Content please

2

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  • Male-M3diaMale-M3dia Posts: 3,584
    edited July 2019
    Gordig said:
    Oso3D said:
    Right, but let's take an imaginary trip to a real world department store. Speaking from an American point of view since that's my frame of reference.

    And after all that, let's keep in mind that department stores reflect a reality in which there are roughly as many men as women, and all of them have their own preferences about how to dress. The content in the Daz store generally reflects the preferences and priorities of the artists.

    Yet the buying pattern still reflects the real world department store. It's real easy to try to explain to vendors selling concepts when people haven't sold a thing; perhaps some should try selling... that will change that train of though real quick.

    Post edited by Male-M3dia on
  • BarzoffBarzoff Posts: 104

    female content everywhere I am bored a bit eh!

     

    I don't get it. We already have male content. 

    Here: https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-eveningwear-for-genesis-8-males

    laughlaughlaugh

     

  • TykeyStudiosTykeyStudios Posts: 877

    The thing that boggles my mind about this, is that at least 85% of the renders I see, feature naked ladies. So all the female clothing that apparently sells so well is never actually being used. It's wild and weird. 

    I'm always thinking the same. But also with female characters too. I always see the same Dime-a-Dozen girls used over and over and over or varients of them and yeah they're nekkid. If they all sell like hotcakes, who's using them or their outfits? But then when I see the average male render, it's about the same too. It's like only 20% of the user base even bothers dressing a character. There's also the issue of preferences in clothing. I only render fantasy so I have no use for modern or futuristic outfits and as such do not support those types of outfits. The same could be said of those customers who prefer futuristic or modern type outfits and do not want to buy fantasy style outfits. With so little content being released for the dudes, and then it's fractured over preferences, I would think that would hurt sales too.
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    I think it is easier to get a realistic render with a nude or naked character. Most clothing just doesn’t match the degree of realism of the current model line. Plus making porn requires very little clothing overall. It is why women and male monsters sell so well.

  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,432
    I think this new product is a good display of the indifference to male content: https://www.daz3d.com/vyk-symbiotes-for-genesis-8-female It's filed as a Daz Original. It's a geoshell texture set with no morphs and only being offered for G8F. There's nothing inherently feminine about this set. If you wanted to use it for a male character, you could do what is needed to do to make it work. But that is seldom an attitude applied in the opposite direction.
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,790

    i need to become a PA.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,790
    edited July 2019

    Also FYI, mark florquin (Polygonal Miniatures), has a lot of realistic photogrammetry scanned clothing options for daz studio males on his website.  Most of them are contemporary casual, but a few are more unique.

    I have not tested any of them to see what they look like after conforming to the character in different poses, but they seem realistic in stationary pose at least.

     

    polygonal-miniatures-angry-guy.jpg
    1000 x 1300 - 210K
    Post edited by lilweep on
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,711

    It's one of the main reasons I got marvelous designer really. The style, fit and quality of a huge chunk of the already meager pool of male products didn't fit my needs. I don't really do fantasy or scifi renders, and of the more normal clothes, most of them don't fit to my tastes. You don't see men running around with skin tight pants around here for example, so most don't fit my need.

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 1,124
    JonnyRay said:
    PedroC said:
    Oso3D said:
    Oso3D said:

    Convince customers to buy more male products.

    Make some interesting male products...

    It’s been repeatedly pointed out that vendors who make content for both male and female generally report female versions dramatically outsell male versions.

    There are exceptions, and some people do well with male stuff.

     

    Happens the same in real life. And so, there are clothes and products for men in real life.

    Right, but let's take an imaginary trip to a real world department store. Speaking from an American point of view since that's my frame of reference.

    Walking around the store, there are probably "Mens" and "Boys" sections. There are also "Womens", "Juniors", and "Girls" sections. Which are, most likely, twice the size of their male counterparts. Why isn't anyone complaining to those stores that they carry twice as much female clothing as they do male?

    If we go to the Mens section and we remove colors, patterns, and fabrics from the equation, just look at the styles of what is available, what do we have?

    1. A suit
    2. Casual Pants
    3. Polo Shirt
    4. Short sleeve button down shirt
    5. Long sleeve button down shirt
    6. Sweater
    7. Jeans
    8. Shorts
    9. Cargo shorts
    10. Sweat pants
    11. T-shirt
    12. Tank top
    13. Sweatshirt

    All of them have almost exactly the same basic style with very few differences other than fabric choices.

    But now head over to the Womens section. Let's just go to the skirts and remove fabric differences there. I did a quick google search on "women skirt styles" and according to the first blog entry that came up on the results, they listed 31 different styles of skirts.

    1. A-Line skirt
    2. Asymmetrical Skirt
    3. Bell Shaped Skirt
    4. Bubble Skirt
    5. Bustle Skirt
    6. Broomstick Skirt
    7. Circular Skirt
    8. Denim Skirt
    9. Dirndl Skirt
    10. Draped Skirt
    11. Flared Skirt
    12. Godet Skirt
    13. Gored Skirt
    14. Gypsy/Tiered Skirt
    15. High-Waisted Skirt
    16. Layered Skirt
    17. Maxi Skirt
    18. Mermaid/Fishtail Skirt
    19. Mini and Micromini Skirts
    20. Peasant Skirt
    21. Pencil/Tube Skirt
    22. Pleated Skirt
    23. Poodle Skirt
    24. Sarong Skirt
    25. Skater Skirt
    26. Skorts Skirt
    27. Straight Skirt
    28. Trouser Skirt
    29. Tulip Skirt
    30. Tutu Skirt
    31. Wrap Skirt

    Thirty one different styles of just one item in a woman's wardrobe. And that's not even taking into account the lengths of the skirts, it's just the basic shapes! Dresses, blouses, pants, etc. All categories have significantly more variety than mens clothing.

    In the 3D world, I could create a "Wardrobe" of 13 (or so, I"m sure there are some left off my list) items for men and other than shader differences you'd have all the variety you needed for a typical modern day setting. Forever.

    For women, almost every season brings new changes in the styles that they're wearing.

    I find myself doing it in my renders. I'll want to dress a female figure and I think "Oh, I already used that skirt in the other image 2 months ago, let me pick something different." But with my guys? "Okay he needs a shirt, this will do, I'll just appply a different shader to it."

    And this also goes back to the point that is ALWAYS made when this discussion comes up again. If I'm a PA and I can spend 200 hours creating a set of clothing for men or spend the same time making something for women, and the female product is going to bring me twice the income, why would I spend my time on the male stuff?

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 1,124
    edited July 2019
    TheKD said:

    It's one of the main reasons I got marvelous designer really. The style, fit and quality of a huge chunk of the already meager pool of male products didn't fit my needs. I don't really do fantasy or scifi renders, and of the more normal clothes, most of them don't fit to my tastes. You don't see men running around with skin tight pants around here for example, so most don't fit my need.

    To make clothes fit and auto-align figure in any pose you need to rig it? But as i heard by SickleYield, for "one shot" scenes you can just run clothes simulation in MD with unrigged cloth in needed pose and export it back to Daz?

    Post edited by akmerlow on
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,711
    edited July 2019

    I don't do rigging at all, I just use mdd to simulate what I need. You can import animations to md in mdd format and simulate it, then export as obj sequence, and import it into studio animated. For stills I import an animation that goes from A pose, to the pose I need.

    Post edited by TheKD on
  • Richard HaseltineRichard Haseltine Posts: 109,262
    Timbales said:
    I think this new product is a good display of the indifference to male content: https://www.daz3d.com/vyk-symbiotes-for-genesis-8-female It's filed as a Daz Original. It's a geoshell texture set with no morphs and only being offered for G8F. There's nothing inherently feminine about this set. If you wanted to use it for a male character, you could do what is needed to do to make it work. But that is seldom an attitude applied in the opposite direction.

    The male and female figures have different UVs, with something like this with a lot of straight edges that would require a major rework. The product may be a DO now, but it was the PA's decision what to make (unless it was a comission) and they may well have concluded that a male version was not viable. Of course it's also possible that there is a male version and that we will see it later.

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 1,124
    TheKD said:

    I don't do rigging at all, I just use mdd to simulate what I need. You can import animations to md in mdd format and simulate it, then export as obj sequence, and import it into studio animated. For stills I import an animation that goes from A pose, to the pose I need.

    Nice. Any results as examples to see?

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,212
    edited July 2019

    Even if we ignore the "males don't sell" line, I find it annoying, disheartening, frustrating, depressing that when I turn to the catalog and scan down the new offerings or current sales pages, it's a sea of female stuff with perhaps one or two floundering male things hidden on the page(s) just to say "see, we didn't ignore the guys".  I know the situation isn't going to change.  It just says a lot about our culture.  I don't buy female stuff at all, and if it wasn't for the fantasy and horror creatures I would have exhausted the male catalog items long ago.

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • TimbalesTimbales Posts: 2,432
    TheKD said:

    It's one of the main reasons I got marvelous designer really. The style, fit and quality of a huge chunk of the already meager pool of male products didn't fit my needs. I don't really do fantasy or scifi renders, and of the more normal clothes, most of them don't fit to my tastes. You don't see men running around with skin tight pants around here for example, so most don't fit my need.

    I'm curious about MD. Have you tried using any real world sewing patterns for the garments you've created?
  • TheKDTheKD Posts: 2,711

    The best way is to at least start with a real world pattern, then modify the shape to get it to fit how you need. you can find a ton of patterns around on the internet.

  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,790
    akmerlow said:
    TheKD said:

    I don't do rigging at all, I just use mdd to simulate what I need. You can import animations to md in mdd format and simulate it, then export as obj sequence, and import it into studio animated. For stills I import an animation that goes from A pose, to the pose I need.

    Nice. Any results as examples to see?

    Travis Davids has some workflow videos on youtube showing process of using Daz Studio and MD.  E.g.,

    There is also a youtube video from The WP Guru showing how to use MD to create a simulated morph of Daz clothing exported to MD as OBJ.

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 1,124
    edited July 2019
    peenwolf said:

    There is also a youtube video from The WP Guru showing how to use MD to create a simulated morph of Daz clothing exported to MD as OBJ.

    Is this cloth supertight by design (not as tight on left pic but still tight enough on right pic)? As one of reasons i'd like to try MD is to go away from DAZ's traditional "conforming clothes is sticked to you", but instead have it layed upon body more freely and more airy. And as i never went past 4.8 i cant use dforce so MD would be my best bet.

     

     

    Post edited by akmerlow on
  • lilweeplilweep Posts: 2,790
    akmerlow said:
    peenwolf said:

    There is also a youtube video from The WP Guru showing how to use MD to create a simulated morph of Daz clothing exported to MD as OBJ.

    Is this cloth supertight by design (not as tight on left pic but still tight enough on right pic)? As one of reasons i'd like to try MD is to go away from DAZ's traditional "conforming clothes is sticked to you", but instead have it layed upon body more freely and more airy. And as i never went past 4.8 i cant use dforce so MD would be my best bet.

     

     

    MD can make clothing baggy.  In the example, i think the item became tight/constricting because of the size of the garment vs. the volume of the avatar's body size.  In the example, he also imports the MD object as a morph. You dont have to import the MD clothing as a morph.  You can drape the clothing any way you want in MD and then just import as an OBJ.

    you can DL a free 30 Day trial of MD and test some stuff to see how it works.

    It's not necessarily a big time investment to get started with MD because you dont have to start out making your own clothing patterns. You have the option of simulating Daz clothing or using existing MD project files.  There are not many MD project file vendors, but you can find a few cheap ones online.  There are a few on artstation, like Evgeniya Petrova, who sell cheap ones.

  • akmerlowakmerlow Posts: 1,124
    peenwolf said:

    MD can make clothing baggy.  In the example, i think the item became tight/constricting because of the size of the garment vs. the volume of the avatar's body size.  In the example, he also imports the MD object as a morph. You dont have to import the MD clothing as a morph.  You can drape the clothing any way you want in MD and then just import as an OBJ.

    Good to know, thanks.

  • eshaesha Posts: 3,261

    Tight clothing is much much easier to rig. For baggy clothes you'll need dForce, or you have to go back to MD for each pose and re-drape it.

  • WinterMoonWinterMoon Posts: 2,016
    edited July 2019

    Problem: There's not enough content for guys.

    Solution: Make more!

    Problem: It doesn't sell well enough.

    Solution: Create a market.

    How? By... adding more women to the customer base? And gay dudes. We need more community members of the sorts that "find the male form aesthetically pleasing," as a friend of mine would say. So go out and recruit! laugh Spread the word! enlightened Tell your sisters, mothers, wives, girlfriends and boyfriends how cool 3D art is! yes GO! Missionize! laugh

     

    (Yeah, I know. Easier said than done. Do it anyway.)

    Post edited by WinterMoon on
  • The thing that boggles my mind about this, is that at least 85% of the renders I see, feature naked ladies. So all the female clothing that apparently sells so well is never actually being used. It's wild and weird. 

    I find that my clothing shopping for my female models is quite similar to my shopping for myself: I buy stuff, try it on, then forget about it. Then complain I have nothing to wear when I have a closet full of stuff.

    I find I spend a lot of time rendering nudes simply because it is less of a headache than trying to get the clothes to look right.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,212

    ...

    I find I spend a lot of time rendering nudes simply because it is less of a headache than trying to get the clothes to look right.

    This! yes

     

  • XpiderManXpiderMan Posts: 426
    I would like to purchase clothes that look more realistic with a few wrinkles and such but a lot of times the clothes for the figures cost almost as much or more than the real life clothes I buy for me which doesn't make sense. :(
  • Mystarra said:

    skimpwear for mans.  with the brock morph.

    budgie smugglers.  not a single speedo found.

    If you are looking for male skimpwear dzheng is back in buisness over at Rendo and he is putting out so much of it Victoria is pouting.

  • LeatherGryphonLeatherGryphon Posts: 12,212
    edited July 2019
    XpiderMan said:
    I would like to purchase clothes that look more realistic with a few wrinkles and such but a lot of times the clothes for the figures cost almost as much or more than the real life clothes I buy for me which doesn't make sense. :(

    Ever been into the hobby of miniature houses?  Chandeliers the size of walnuts cost as much as real ones.  Walnut flooring, oak crown molding, wallpaper, working electric wall switches & outlets & lamps.  For one of our rooms we had a 9x10 inch silk rug.  A real Persian Heriz pure silk miniature rug with miniature design and super short pile that was about $500/sq foot, which is about double what a full size one costs per sq. foot.  On one of the minature walnut tables I had a real miniature bronze sculpture of an eagle,   Were we carried away? Yes, it's all an addiction that sucks whatever you're capable of paying (or more).  We are the suckers the dealers look for.  Which is why in DAZ I do a lot of nude rendering (the characters, not me.)blush

    PS: After my partner died I sold the minature house stuff but I kept that damn rug!

    Post edited by LeatherGryphon on
  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,369
    hjake said:

    cheeky

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,369

    Why should an artist invest a lot of time in fiddly heavy armor for guys when it won't sell enough to make back the time?

    it's hard to make the Tom of Finland sausage-packing morphs that would work with the non-dforce clothes that we have... Maybe one might try it with dforce pants, however. Angle some anatomicals down the leg, widen one thigh, see what dforce does with it.

    Not tried that yet but I would imagine if you have the genitals on then you would just position it like it's packaged in underwear.  and I'll bet the pants and deforce would work fine.  It would probably take a little dFormer to pull the pants out just enough to encompass the gens and then run the sim..... 

  • ButchButch Posts: 800
    RAMWolff said:

    Why should an artist invest a lot of time in fiddly heavy armor for guys when it won't sell enough to make back the time?

    it's hard to make the Tom of Finland sausage-packing morphs that would work with the non-dforce clothes that we have... Maybe one might try it with dforce pants, however. Angle some anatomicals down the leg, widen one thigh, see what dforce does with it.

    Not tried that yet but I would imagine if you have the genitals on then you would just position it like it's packaged in underwear.  and I'll bet the pants and deforce would work fine.  It would probably take a little dFormer to pull the pants out just enough to encompass the gens and then run the sim..... 

    Maybe there should be a little forum contest to see who can render the most realistic Tom? 

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