More Male Content please
cimenroller2
Posts: 76
in The Commons
female content everywhere I am bored a bit eh!
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Hehehe...boy are you barking up the wrong tree. A lot of us have been asking for ages, but they say stuff for males doesn't sell so we're confined to a universe made up nearly entirely of women. It is boring, isn't it?
Laurie
Convince customers to buy more male products.
skimpwear for mans. with the brock morph.
budgie smugglers. not a single speedo found.
I want to see more mail content. The lack of it will make me go postal !@#$%^&
https://www.daz3d.com/postal-props
https://www.daz3d.com/royal-post-line-for-the-rhs-stagecoach
https://www.daz3d.com/everyday-stationery
I buy a ton. In fact, it comprises most of the stuff I DO buy (that isn't a set or environment, that is). However, a lot of it is stuff that I can't/won't ever use, like more sexualized stuff, fetish wear, crazy hair styles, comic book hero stuff, etc.
Laurie
The lack of male outfits for Gen 8 is rough. I have a lot of the fantasy stuff, but I'd love to see more elaborate stuff. I like male video game aesthetics. Terra or Guild Wars 2 or Elder Scrolls or Conan have some really cool male clothing that's a bit revealing and unique but not over the top that I'd love to see similar stuff of in the store. I was surprised how few results there are for gladiator / warrior type clothing as well. It'd also be really nice to see more outfits that have morphing options similar to some of the women's stuff (like Y'vas Outfit or the Morphing Fantasy Dress) to give more diversity to outfits. I like Jasper's a lot because you can do it with the vest or the shirt or the jacket, which gives it some variety. I find a lot of the male stuff is really similar to stuff already out, which is good when there's a lot of stuff, but when there's not a lot, having more variety is important. There's 319 male gen 8 outfits vs. 1263 female gen 8 outfits, so we could definitely use more options. I also would love to see some more stuff using dforce.
I'm also seeing gaps on pretty popular male archetypes like swashbuckling pirate, over the top mage/wizard, the bad boy, the gladiator (though there has been some new releases!) or the ladies man.
I'd love more male content but I have to admit, I don't really spend much.
A lot of the male stuff is inferior to the female versions, but when I see well made male clothes, etc I buy it, in hopes that vendors make more and better. I don't even return the poorly made male items (unlike the female, which I do return). I think I'm just throwing good money after bad.
The majority of what I buy is male content. But if Daz averages below 1 or 2 male products a day how much more could I possibly buy????? Even if they increased it to a definate single male item a day I would be buying more. I would kill for a high quality Aeon Soul armor or leather outfit. If they are going to release so little at LEAST make sure the quality is above average increase the likeliness of a sale. Luthbel used to make AMAZING outfits for males; even seemed to make a ranger variant each gen, but thats seemed to have stopped.
Daz would probably get even more chance at sales with unisex outfits either supporting morphs or rigged seperately. Sure its more work but its higher versitilty, you still can sell to por... I mean "female centric" users and more likely to get male sales up than doing NOTHING AT ALL.
All this is falling on deaf ears. It will never happen so there's no point in even asking anymore. If daz doesn't sell stuff I want to buy then I don't spend money.
It falls on deaf ears because it’s not Daz you need to convince.
For kicks I checked "Only Show Owned" and filtered for g8f (305) and g8m (275). Wish I could add up what was actually paid for each (bet it was more for the male stuff even though slightly fewer items).
How about you all?
- Greg
ETA: I also am a big fan of @Luthbell's clothing and always welcome more.
Ask any PA to make a list of the stuff they could make for Daz Studio, and to order it by sales volume. You'll find pose sets (the ones without extras like props or partials) and assets for male characters fighting eachother for last place. Skimpwear for female characters, on the other hand, seems to be generally profitable. Cross-figure products seem to do okay as well, you'd almost think people like options, or that such products cater to multiple audiences. It's just too bad that rigging clothes to figures is a very tedious and extremely boring task, which is why few outfits are cross-figure. But it does explain the popularity of the RSSY converters. Which are amazing products, since for males too, they easily triple the wardrobe and hair options.
I feel there are many reasons why there is not more male content, and some of them feed into each other.
I feel alot of the clothes that are made for the male figures are missing the real world details that make them look realistic. Collars often aren't structured or don't lay right. Pockets are part of the texture. The clothes usually don't hang on the body the right way. Women's clothing tends to be less structured and more fitted, so making a realistic garment for a female 3d figure can be an easier task.
If you're like me, you skip buying those items that are being made for men because you just don't think they look very good. Unfortunately, that means that the people who are making male content don't want to put more of an effort into it because what they're making isn't selling.
The same thing can be applied to hair styles and body hair. There's a new body hair set for G8M in the store that I was very interested in, until I took a closer look at it. The hair just kind of falls on the body vertically and doesn't really have any growth patterns and it like you would see in body hair. so for me, it's a skip it. Which means that vendor may not make any other products like that again.
Make some interesting male products...
Why should an artist invest a lot of time in fiddly heavy armor for guys when it won't sell enough to make back the time?
it's hard to make the Tom of Finland sausage-packing morphs that would work with the non-dforce clothes that we have... Maybe one might try it with dforce pants, however. Angle some anatomicals down the leg, widen one thigh, see what dforce does with it.
I don't think Daz has the interest, honestly. I'd speculate there isn't the creative interest and/or the return on investment.
There are 16 Daz Original human male figures for G8M, 1 is a toon, 1 is more of a creature and 2 are old.
There are 29 (at least) Daz Original human female figures. Almost twice as many.
It’s been repeatedly pointed out that vendors who make content for both male and female generally report female versions dramatically outsell male versions.
There are exceptions, and some people do well with male stuff.
One thing is to convince the customers and another is to discourage them. More expensive prices, less quantity and lower quality.
Happens the same in real life. And so, there are clothes and products for men in real life.
Right, but let's take an imaginary trip to a real world department store. Speaking from an American point of view since that's my frame of reference.
Walking around the store, there are probably "Mens" and "Boys" sections. There are also "Womens", "Juniors", and "Girls" sections. Which are, most likely, twice the size of their male counterparts. Why isn't anyone complaining to those stores that they carry twice as much female clothing as they do male?
If we go to the Mens section and we remove colors, patterns, and fabrics from the equation, just look at the styles of what is available, what do we have?
All of them have almost exactly the same basic style with very few differences other than fabric choices.
But now head over to the Womens section. Let's just go to the skirts and remove fabric differences there. I did a quick google search on "women skirt styles" and according to the first blog entry that came up on the results, they listed 31 different styles of skirts.
Thirty one different styles of just one item in a woman's wardrobe. And that's not even taking into account the lengths of the skirts, it's just the basic shapes! Dresses, blouses, pants, etc. All categories have significantly more variety than mens clothing.
In the 3D world, I could create a "Wardrobe" of 13 (or so, I"m sure there are some left off my list) items for men and other than shader differences you'd have all the variety you needed for a typical modern day setting. Forever.
For women, almost every season brings new changes in the styles that they're wearing.
I find myself doing it in my renders. I'll want to dress a female figure and I think "Oh, I already used that skirt in the other image 2 months ago, let me pick something different." But with my guys? "Okay he needs a shirt, this will do, I'll just appply a different shader to it."
And this also goes back to the point that is ALWAYS made when this discussion comes up again. If I'm a PA and I can spend 200 hours creating a set of clothing for men or spend the same time making something for women, and the female product is going to bring me twice the income, why would I spend my time on the male stuff?
I love male content myself, and I am thrilled that while it’s less numerous, there are loads of male items being made.
I was particularly ecstatic at risky items like George, Ollie, and Floyd.
So I’m thankful for pas who don’t rely entirely on sure things. It could be muuuch harder to get good male content.
This is probably one of the best analogies to explain why there is more female content than male. I am happy with the male content I have already. While there could be more for special occassions, I think there is a real world equivalence to how content is represented between the genres. Most of us who have been "Daz Heads" for over a decade realize why and how female content is more popular. They have done better with male content over the years compared to where things were back in 2004 when I started. So I agree with this and with what OSo3D has said...convince the PAs to make more but it's just so much that can be made without some sort of speciality.
And after all that, let's keep in mind that department stores reflect a reality in which there are roughly as many men as women, and all of them have their own preferences about how to dress. The content in the Daz store generally reflects the preferences and priorities of the artists.
If I knew how to make stuff I'd make stuff for the fellas. Though, I've not even loaded a single male figure except by accident. I'm using one of my female models as a male. Oops.
I just need to learn how to do that sort of thing.
What male content is needed?
What we always are gifted in real life: ties, Argyle socks, ugly knitted sweaters, silly boxer shorts and more ties.
I don't really agree with the "that's how it is in real life" argument. Western culture allows women more options in how they dress - cuts, fabrics, colors, patterns, etc - than men. That doesn't mean men's clothing is all that simple or limited.
Take a woven long sleeved men's collared shirt that buttons up the front.
It can have a single pocket or no pocket on the chest.
For the collar, there is a forward point collar, a buttoned down collar, a spread collar, a cut away collar and a band collar.
The back yoke can be solid or split.
The back can have a single center pleat, maybe with a locker loop if it's a buttoned down oxford. It can have two pleats spread farther apart near the shoulders, It can have no pleat. It can be a slim cut with darts.
Sleeves can end in a barrel cuff or a french cuff. Either type can be finished straight, rounded or mitered.
The hem can be straight in a more casual style, to be worn untucked, or scooped in the front and back to help it stay tucked in.
More casual kinds of woven shirts - flannels, denims, etc - can have one or two chest pockets. That can have a flap that that buttons.
A military style shirt will have epaulets, but they can also be included on fashion shirts.
Western style shirts will have more decoaritve yokes on the front and back.
Tuexdo shirts have their own details.
When you move into the short sleeved category, they get a little simpler - point collar or botton down for the more business casual look.
The less structured, camp shirt/Hawaiian shirt style that often doesn't have a separate collar band, with a straight hem and side vents.
Then you get to knit shirts - polos with two or three buttons and have different bottom hems, t-shirts with different necklines (crew, v, scoop), henleys, raglan sleeves.....
The thing that boggles my mind about this, is that at least 85% of the renders I see, feature naked ladies. So all the female clothing that apparently sells so well is never actually being used. It's wild and weird.