Review System
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Maybe a review system (as in a rating system only) may have some problems, but I belong to a few Daz facebook groups where products are ocassionally reviewed, and you get to see them used and rated by experts. I find this invaluable. Not only am I introduced to assets I might not have considered, but I may be nudged into buying products I have previously dismissed because a simply promo pic did not fully tell me everything the product was capable of.
I think a lot of people who have been working with Daz for a long time completely forget what newcomers to Daz are dealing with, and there is a lot more to Daz now than say back in the poser, V4 days. A refund policy is well and good, but some people really don't want to have to buy something in order to discover that it doesn't do what they thought it was going to do. Also I might not mind purchasing something if I know up front that I'm going to have to tweak some things in order to get it to do what I want; at least I'll know that the product is capable of it and not defective.
I would hate reviews and especially Amazon style reviews which is ironic since I buy a lot of fiction from Amazon; just don't want it packaged as a review: https://www.fastcompany.com/90335600/amazon-has-a-major-fake-review-problem
I would utilize reviews, especially during flash sales where you must be quick. A review would tell me if a product is defective, say the houses don't meet the lawns, leaving a transparent gap around the foundations in every render, or an auditorium where the student desks are so close to the seat that a character won't fit. That sort of actual flaw.
I doubt if the reviews would be too heavy on the "It doesn't meet my needs so it's a bad product!" sort of thing. I would ignore those anyway, except to be entertained, maybe.
Actually, I love it that there aren't any reviews - official at least.
The forums are a great place to come for unofficial ones; I have great faith in the posts that appear on the forums about products; I attribute far more to those then any hundred I read about products elsewhere.
That brings me to the point I'm intending to make; there is a review system in place. It's called the forums, use it wisely.
I know that there's been times that I've not made a purchase because there aren't reviews. I'll take a chance at a heavily discounted item (as I have been during this tempoary PC+ sale), but if I see something out there for close to regular price, I want to know that the item is going to work for what I want before I'll commit to buy it. Most times I won't.
I think the Daz Deals has a good idea of linking products to the forums. I think instead of reviews, it would be nice if all products had an automatic commerical thread attached to it that is linked from the store page, that way people are getting a conversation instead of a review. if someone wants to know how modular a set is or whether a clothing item is one texture or multi-texture, they have a place to talk about that.
This comes up time and again, so the thing is easy in my opinion: Which interest could DAZ have to get some of their products rated bad so it won't get bought?
Answer: None
The overall quality of Daz products is high, you have promos to look at, some pa's have a thread in the PA commercial section, if you want to know something scpecific on a certain product, there are lots of friendly forumites or the PA themselfes who will answer you if you post a question to a certain product, and if all that doesn't help, DAZ has a very lenient returning policy.
With a rating system people will rate a product bad instead of contacting support when something is not working as intended, so no progress made.
DAZ is not like Amazon beeing only a broker platform where you want to get rid of traders cheating or selling bad stuff. Things that go on marked with DAZ have been going though the DAZ quality check, that's a completely different level of control. They most certainly want to stay on friendly terms with ther PAs because they need each other on a much larger scale than Amazon needs one specific trader.
So all logic implies, there won't be a rating system and that's fine with me
I agree to a large extent. I used to think that reviews were necessary but I'm changing my mind - the forum is good because the reviewers have a posting record. I'm always alittle wary of Amazon (and other stores) reviews because I suspect bogus product promotion. I don't really think that would happen here but the forum environment would encourage debate and disagreement with over-the-top praise or criticism. Perhaps a compromise woul be a specific forum (rather than a thread) for product reviews and initial user experiences?
Is there a reason to believe the same forum people whose reviews we currently like would not be the contributors on official or more organized review spaces? I’m not sure why some (not specifically you) believe there will be a rush of malicious or silly posters and reviewers simply because an official review form exists.
The forum would be an excellent place to get reviews, IF (as people so willingly seem to ignore) ALL the items eventually got reviewed there when they are newly released. When a new base figure comes out the forum is the first place I go before I buy to see how other people have used the figure and what it looks like in real-world (meaning average user and not a pro designed to make a product look good) application.
I don't think I'm the only person that does this when a new base character comes out and the fact that a lot of other people do the same shows that regardless of what some people are saying people are wanting and utilizing reviews. What people are expressing here is the desire to be able to do that with more than just base characters.
Also that old standby argument still holds even if I hate to employ it. Having something exist doesn't necesitate that one has to utilize it. If I dislike the idea of reviews I never have to look at one, and it wouldn't bother me in the least if other people did, nor should it.
I know I have said this before on this subject, but reviews/ratings on this site would not work because there are not enough buying customers to make the process fair and meaningful, since only around 1 in a hundred purchasers will leave a review or rating. IOS Appstore, and Googles playstore have millions of users, so many apps get thousands of ratings. As such the average rating is likely to be fair. But if you only get 1 or 2 reviews, and they are bad, from people not happy for some reason (and more people will point out things they don't like, than things they do), then this could unfairly impact sales of what could be a very good product.
I've written reviews for a few DAZ products on deviantArt, but I only point out features or flaws, not whether I like it or not. Mostly, I'd mention whether it's possible to apply tiling textures, if material zones can be hidden to create different looks, if the texture shares obvious elements with others, if hair can be posed well, etc. Reviews like that could be helpful, but not ones such as "I don't make fantasy art so this isn't useful for me"...and seeing how so many are so quick to let us all know that DAZ's newest character doesn't appeal to them, I don't think user reviews would be the best idea here.
That quote came from me, and I have to clarify that we were not talking about reviews. The thread started with two ideas:
While #2 can be a lot more objective than #1, please think back to how many times you've sorted the store by order of popularity.
Review: "Armor is too revealing" x1000
1/5 stars
.
.
.
Product is top seller.
Ati, I actually didn't see your quote, so I didn't mean to single you out. However, no one writing a review should ever be saying anything like "fantasy items are the best products" or like The Blurst of Times just said, rate something low because they personally don't have a use for it (and trust me, there would be thousands of those reviews). It should be entirely on facts, like "I like Faveral's sets because the buildings use tiling textures which make them easy to customize" or "This Stonemason sci-fi set has the usual high detail we've come to expect from him, just be aware that the background is a textured dome and not actual geometry".
I also do not sort the store by popularity, I sort it by Newest and then by Trending in order to find sales. It doesn't matter to me if everyone is buying a new product if I don't have a use for it, but there is no need for me to state my opinion on something I don't plan to purchase or don't own.
Imagine people leaving a bad rating/review because they didn´t paid attention to the what's required/what's included or because the product doesn´t do something they personally want. Not everyone is responsible when rating.
I was checking a character in another store promising GORGEOUS eyes in the description but it had like 4 promos and ALL of them wearing huge sunglasses, no eyes were ever shown. I see how reviews could help in those cases. But you will find here the most detailed promos, product info and strict QA. So all you need to decide if it´s the best for you, is to check the product page. Chances are, with a star rating system, you will still find like 100 products rated the same, so...
Just install the DAZ Deals addon, it will link to forum mentions and gallery posts.
Speaking of Rendo's review system you guys should take a closer look at them. It seems like every review i look at has nothing but praise for the creator and/or the product and that alone makes me suspicious. Like people dont want to leave a bad or negative review for fear of hurting the creators feelings or upsetting the people who run that site. But IMO honest feedback is needed so that creators can better themselves and their product. If someone is constantly releasing products that have messed up files and it always needs work getting it to run properly and all their product reviews have that info in it then people might not want to buy their stuff if they dont want to mess with that. And maybe that will drive the content creator to actually try and improve their content instead of releasing garbage. But on the flip side of that people who leave reviews may end up abusing the system. It might be useful at first but ultimately it could just end up like the cesspool that are youtube video comments, steam review bombs and stuff like that.
yeah, they can be a little touchy when leaving a less than stellar review, I know from experience, LOL I recently purchasd a character because in the promos the skin looked great and I loved the face morph. This vendor also sells just morphs packs for faces and bodies, so I just assumed that the character i purchased would have both face and body morphs, nope. Needless to say the skin didn't live up to the hype either, so I left a review saying I was dissapointed and why. I wasn't rude, but i was firm in whay i was disspointed.The vendor PMed me and chewed me a new one, so needless to say, I will not purchase from them again. Granted i could have dug deeper into the what's included, but seeing their other products and this was just a simple female character it made sense to me that it would have both morphs and to fair, I didn't return it, so they still got the sale.
And that's the thing; a lot of people never go through the process of returning stuff they buy even though the process is pretty painless (I have several items taking up space on my HD that simply didn't work right, or were just too much trouble to use). The fact is a bad review never stopped anyone from buying anything they truly want to try out, but it may give someone some pause until they can get more information, which is as simple as going to the forum and asking for a render of a particular item.
Reviews are merely opinions after all.
I have reviewed the proposition of including user-generated reviews of products on the DAZ3D site and the ensueing discussion here, and have decided to award it one star.
I recommend everyone else concerned with the issue do the same. Then, we can add the stars awarded up, divide by the number of users and arrive at an average rating for the idea of a rating system. Of course it would be entirely meaningless, since the results would be based entirely on subjective opinion and the sample size ridiculously small and representing the results from only those that bothered to respond. For example, so far the idea has an average rating of only one star, based upon a sample size of one.
Now, if you had a system that even pretended to represent some statistical validity, like requiring everyone purchasing a product to rate it, rather than a small subjective sample of unknown, unmeasureable bias, maybe we might have something useful.
Requiring? I have dozens of products that I have never even loaded once. They were on sale or were free, I might need them later, so I bought them cheap. If I'm required to rate them, my rating would be meaningless.
For me, the difference between the reviews you see somewhere and the what happens on the forums, is that one is a discussion as well as an opinion and usually an intelligent exchange of views.
... Whereas reviews are all-to-often none of those. They are far too often, a rant: either in favour or against. They also attract (it seems) a certain type or person. I'm happy to grant that there are good reviews on Amazon (and other places), for example, they can be difficult to find and evaluate.
The discussion on the forums is tremendously important. It allows folks to reach an informed decission. If it fails, returning is so damn simple.
(I bought a product from Amazon, I looked at the reviews, there were a decent number, they are all positive; I've sent the product back, it was poor. An email appeared a few minutes ago advising me that the refund has been processed.)
... Once again, I will repeat, we do have a review system, and it is far superior to what Amazon and others have.
i dont like the idea of rating and reviewing the products, i think that the product descriptions along with the product images are sufficient enough for me to make an informed decision
however, there were times when items have not met expectations; far and in between
most people like me have no talent for this kind of stuff even though it is fun- and a lot of people mistake lack of talent and patience in production for product issues
besides i dont want to buy an item with nagging doubts it based on someone elses opinion and waste brain space trying to find fault based on complaints - and i dont particularly want to see a glowing review and wonder if the PAs 14yo daughter wrote it
Wow you or I are slacking; I think I have hundreds or maybe even thousands.
LOL. :D Okay, I didn't want to sound like a digital hoarder, but have to admit that I'm closer to those figures, too... :D
One idea is to encourage well spoken and dispassionate people to write a review series.
And if people really like the person’s work they could chip in gift cards or something to get the person to buy more products to review.
The major difficulty with review systems is that there are now 'for profit' companies that exist for the sole purpose or either raising or lowering products and services in review systems for sites like Amazon or Yelp. They now even advertise their services on radio and TV. It's not fun wading through dozens or even hundreds of bogus posts trying to find ones that are actually helpful.
The items sold on CG sites are inherently subjective in nature. It's all too easy to click a link and leave a star or minus. I have found the forum posts here to be far better than a simple rating system because people (other than the obvious trolling posts) often actually put some level of attention or effort effort into what they are saying.
I wish there was at least a comment section on a product page.
Just because something is well modelled, textured and meets DAZ's quality checks doesn't mean that it is technically competent. For example, when I first saw the PW Multipurpose Helicopter thumbnail appear in the store, I was stoked. However, upon closer inspection it doesn't seem that the PA modelled the collective... At least not that I can see from the product pictures.
So, to find out if there even is a collective modelled, I need to:
a) make a forum thread asking, which is a PITA; or
b) purchase the item, inspect it, and start a refund if necessary. Even more of a PITA.
And don't tell me I'm picking on this PA. How many aircraft models in the store don't have things like ailerons modelled? How many interior scenes are missing basic features such as outlets? etc... A review or comment section would facilitate the consumer being alerted to glaring errors in otherwise fine products.
An aspect I've not considered when responding; time taken.
It can take time to consider reviews in relation to our own buying needs.
I buy, discover it doesn't work, and return it; the returning takes a few seconds. Discovering it doesn't work for my needs varies in time, and reviews don't seem to help me with that.
I'm an "other people", and I usually wear shoes. But sometimes boots. But I still don't place a lot of credence in a relatively small number of random, customer-generated reviews or rating systems.