dForce Hair (as well as strand based hair and the strand based hair editor) in public beta

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  • ViallyVially Posts: 343

    Divamakeup said:

    Thought I'd try my hand at a male hairstyle. The hair needs a bit of work as I didn't notice the poke-through at the ears before rendering. But I like how it come out otherwise. :)

     

    This honestly looks great. The only part that doesn't is the transition between scalp and hair. We need to figure out how to do those finer "baby hairs" that border the main event.

    Also, are these hairs dforce by default? Can we apply existing shaders to them like Colorwerks, Backlight, and Hair Lustre?

    I would say try doing a nother hair growth area for just the hair line, and make it "scraggly", less dense and finer hairs, haven't tried it myself, but know from the beard and moustache I played with you can get pretty close.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 343
    wolf359 said:

    The hairs aren't dForce - I don't know if there is a way to make the Strand Based Hair dForce or not. 

    Damn. Unfortunately that's far less exciting than I'd hoped. sad

    We need hair that reacts naturally to the body and gravity more than strands, IMHO. Otherwise, we'd need to style it differently for each and every render. Yikes!

     

     

    EDIT: Wait.... @divamakeup, why's the video called "dForce and Strand Hair demo video: https://youtu.be/tVJygQqpi10" if there's no dForce? Isn't that just strand hair they're using as the "dForce Mohawk?" I'm confused.

    There are two types of hair projects going on in this release, dForce hair, and the strand based hair. Honestly I was/am a bit disapointed in the dForce hair as I can find no "easy" way to edit or style the hair, It also appears to be an all or nothing type of configuration, so no mullets with dForce...

    Strand based hair on the opposite side is very easy to create with, you can have multiple "groups" in the same area and style til your hears content. Alas it is static. From what I can see any changes to the character pose, (except on shorter hairs) will require re-styling the hair to fit the new pose. Note that very subtle changes do not effect this much, but going from a nutral mouth to a fully open mouthed yell, will change the base geometry enough that a moustache will need to be re-styled. That said I would swear someone said it can be morphed... So a different method to make static hair that can be morphed.

    Somewhere in this thread someone said they are already working out a way to make strand hair dForce compliant... now THAT would be the BOMB! :)

  • ermullensermullens Posts: 93
    barbult said:
    ermullens said:

    I  must be doing something wrong when clicking accept and what I see is only guide strands even after hitting render nothing but the single guides is there is something I am missing

    That happened to me yesterday. My problem was that the hair was translated in the Y direction. When I zeroed out that translation in the Parameters pane, the hair showed up and rendered OK. (Also, remember that the Strand-Based Hair wont show up in Iray Preview viewport unless you turn on the Preview PR Hairs in the Parameters pane.)

    that's the odd thing the preview strands is on it shows up in the render,  switch that off and tt disappears all the dials are zeroed just to be sure it wasn't Belle 6 causing it tried several other same thing preview is on hair shows up in the render switched off it disappears tried the sample mohawk without the preview switched on it doesn't show in the render either it's a bug or it downloaded incorrectly

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165
    ermullens said:
    barbult said:
    ermullens said:

    I  must be doing something wrong when clicking accept and what I see is only guide strands even after hitting render nothing but the single guides is there is something I am missing

    That happened to me yesterday. My problem was that the hair was translated in the Y direction. When I zeroed out that translation in the Parameters pane, the hair showed up and rendered OK. (Also, remember that the Strand-Based Hair wont show up in Iray Preview viewport unless you turn on the Preview PR Hairs in the Parameters pane.)

    that's the odd thing the preview strands is on it shows up in the render,  switch that off and tt disappears all the dials are zeroed just to be sure it wasn't Belle 6 causing it tried several other same thing preview is on hair shows up in the render switched off it disappears tried the sample mohawk without the preview switched on it doesn't show in the render either it's a bug or it downloaded incorrectly

    I don't know if answers to these questions will help track down the problerm, but they might reveal something that you are doing differently than other people:

    Are you rendering with the Iray render engine or 3Delight?  If Iray, are you rendering in Photoreal mode or Interactive mode?

    Did you apply a shader to the hair surface? If so, which one?

    Are you using any unusual lighting?

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165

    Here are a couple more strange things I made with the hair editor. I like the colors and textures in these.

  • RAMWolffRAMWolff Posts: 10,343

    Very cool barbult! 

  • FWIWFWIW Posts: 320

    I know this is going to sound super stupid but I downloaded the updates starter essentials and the beta build... but I can't find the option to make the hair. Where would it be located/what would it be called? 

  • ParadigmParadigm Posts: 421
    edited May 2019

    Has anyone done any testing on how long this takes to drape on longer hairs with DForce? I have a 2080TI on my home PC and the draping of the dforce hair I have takes AGES.

    FWIW said:

    I know this is going to sound super stupid but I downloaded the updates starter essentials and the beta build... but I can't find the option to make the hair. Where would it be located/what would it be called? 

    Have you watched the youtube of it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVJygQqpi10&feature=youtu.be

    I havent had a chance to  try it yet (just found it at work today, gonna try back at my hotel) but it looks like the video shows the location of the presets

     

     

    Post edited by Paradigm on
  • ermullensermullens Posts: 93
    barbult said:
    ermullens said:
    barbult said:
    ermullens said:

    I  must be doing something wrong when clicking accept and what I see is only guide strands even after hitting render nothing but the single guides is there is something I am missing

    That happened to me yesterday. My problem was that the hair was translated in the Y direction. When I zeroed out that translation in the Parameters pane, the hair showed up and rendered OK. (Also, remember that the Strand-Based Hair wont show up in Iray Preview viewport unless you turn on the Preview PR Hairs in the Parameters pane.)

    that's the odd thing the preview strands is on it shows up in the render,  switch that off and tt disappears all the dials are zeroed just to be sure it wasn't Belle 6 causing it tried several other same thing preview is on hair shows up in the render switched off it disappears tried the sample mohawk without the preview switched on it doesn't show in the render either it's a bug or it downloaded incorrectly

    I don't know if answers to these questions will help track down the problerm, but they might reveal something that you are doing differently than other people:

    Are you rendering with the Iray render engine or 3Delight?  If Iray, are you rendering in Photoreal mode or Interactive mode?

    Did you apply a shader to the hair surface? If so, which one?

    Are you using any unusual lighting?

    Tech support found it happens when the draw style is Iray but shows up when using the render button, so why it would only show when pr was on

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165
    ermullens said:
    barbult said:
    ermullens said:
    barbult said:
    ermullens said:

    I  must be doing something wrong when clicking accept and what I see is only guide strands even after hitting render nothing but the single guides is there is something I am missing

    That happened to me yesterday. My problem was that the hair was translated in the Y direction. When I zeroed out that translation in the Parameters pane, the hair showed up and rendered OK. (Also, remember that the Strand-Based Hair wont show up in Iray Preview viewport unless you turn on the Preview PR Hairs in the Parameters pane.)

    that's the odd thing the preview strands is on it shows up in the render,  switch that off and tt disappears all the dials are zeroed just to be sure it wasn't Belle 6 causing it tried several other same thing preview is on hair shows up in the render switched off it disappears tried the sample mohawk without the preview switched on it doesn't show in the render either it's a bug or it downloaded incorrectly

    I don't know if answers to these questions will help track down the problerm, but they might reveal something that you are doing differently than other people:

    Are you rendering with the Iray render engine or 3Delight?  If Iray, are you rendering in Photoreal mode or Interactive mode?

    Did you apply a shader to the hair surface? If so, which one?

    Are you using any unusual lighting?

    Tech support found it happens when the draw style is Iray but shows up when using the render button, so why it would only show when pr was on

    Thanks for posting your solution. I'm sure that will help the rest of us when we stumble onto that combination.

  • QuasarQuasar Posts: 679
    edited May 2019
    FWIW said:

    I know this is going to sound super stupid but I downloaded the updates starter essentials and the beta build... but I can't find the option to make the hair. Where would it be located/what would it be called? 

    From the top menu bar,

    1. Click Window>Workspace>Update and Merge Menus

    2. Select your figure in the scene tab

    3. Click Create>New Strand-Based Hair

    To edit hair after you've created it,

    1. Select the hair in the scene tab

    2. Click Edit>Object>Edit Strand-Based Hair

    Post edited by Quasar on
  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479

    I'll assume not everyone following this thread is also following the beta thread in the Software forums, so I just wanted to share what I found. There is an intentional variation of the editor which isn't of much use to us mere mortals, er, users, that only shows the Style tab with limited functionality. For PAs, apparently, it helps them to create morphs for their dForce Hair products. I stumbled across this "easter egg," (As Cris Palomino called it,) because I set a keyboard shortcut for the editor. To access this limited editor, one holds down the Ctrl key, (Cmd on a Mac, I presume,) when clicking on the Edit Strand-Based Hair… menu item. I was getting this result with my shortcut because I used the Ctrl key.

    If you're like me, and want a keyboard shortcut for the editor, just make sure the Ctrl key isn't part of the sequence, and it should work just fine. (You can assign keyboard shortcuts by hitting F3. In the resulting dialog window, locate the item in the left column, right-click on the item, select Change Keyboard Shortcut in the popup menu, and then enter the key sequence. You'll see the Shortcut show up next to your item. Be sure to click on Accept to save and exit the dialog window.)

  • L'AdairL'Adair Posts: 9,479
    barbult said:

    Here are a couple more strange things I made with the hair editor. I like the colors and textures in these.

    I am both impressed and mildly jealous/envious of what you have accomplished with this feature in such a short period of time.

    Way to go, girl.
    yesyes

  • ParadigmParadigm Posts: 421

    Well, after reading through the first few pages I was informed that we, as mere users, will not be able to make our self created strand hair dynamic.I wonder what would happen if we were to export the hair as an obj, reimport it THEN dforce it. 

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165
    Paradigm said:

    Well, after reading through the first few pages I was informed that we, as mere users, will not be able to make our self created strand hair dynamic.I wonder what would happen if we were to export the hair as an obj, reimport it THEN dforce it. 

    We've been told we can do that, but it won't have the new  features of dForce made expecially for hair. It will simulate like cloth.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165
    L'Adair said:
    barbult said:

    Here are a couple more strange things I made with the hair editor. I like the colors and textures in these.

    I am both impressed and mildly jealous/envious of what you have accomplished with this feature in such a short period of time.

    Way to go, girl.
    yesyes

    Well thanks, L'Adair! I've spent hours and hours just playing with the controls to see what I can create. I still can't figure out how to make reasonable-looking long hair, though.

  • RGcincyRGcincy Posts: 2,862
    edited May 2019
    barbult said:

    If you change Line Tesselation (higher or lower), would that affect the polygon swelling?

    Values of 1 do not accept dForce modifier and values of 3 and higher crash my computer, so I've been using 2.

     

    Paradigm said:

    Well, after reading through the first few pages I was informed that we, as mere users, will not be able to make our self created strand hair dynamic.I wonder what would happen if we were to export the hair as an obj, reimport it THEN dforce it. 

    That's how I did this posted earlier. Still trying to solve the polygon swelling problem (as well as a hair falling out problem).

    Post edited by RGcincy on
  • Sven DullahSven Dullah Posts: 7,621
    RGcincy said:
    barbult said:

    If you change Line Tesselation (higher or lower), would that affect the polygon swelling?

    Values of 1 do not accept dForce modifier and values of 3 and higher crash my computer, so I've been using 2.

     

    Paradigm said:

    Well, after reading through the first few pages I was informed that we, as mere users, will not be able to make our self created strand hair dynamic.I wonder what would happen if we were to export the hair as an obj, reimport it THEN dforce it. 

    That's how I did this posted earlier. Still trying to solve the polygon swelling problem (as well as a hair falling out problem).

    Did you try adding a push modifyer with a small negative value?

  • PhilWPhilW Posts: 5,160
    Paradigm said:

    Has anyone done any testing on how long this takes to drape on longer hairs with DForce? I have a 2080TI on my home PC and the draping of the dforce hair I have takes AGES.

     

    I assume you mean the polygonal hair which uses the dForce cloth engine to drape, as my experience with that is that it takes a long time to drape. I am working on long hair for dForce Hair and it typically takes seconds to drape. It depends on how many strands are being simulated and how much other geometry there is in the scene which it could collide with (mostly clothing and the figure), but I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how fast proper dForce Hair drapes.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,842
    L'Adair said:
    barbult said:

    Here are a couple more strange things I made with the hair editor. I like the colors and textures in these.

    I am both impressed and mildly jealous/envious of what you have accomplished with this feature in such a short period of time.

    Way to go, girl.
    yesyes

    Agreed!

  • ViallyVially Posts: 343
    barbult said:

    I finished my portrait with the Strand-Based thinning comb-over and the wild eyebrows. I used the same eyebrows I created before, but I restyled them. The hair is new. This character is based on Ollie 8 with some morph tweaks.

    Gallery Image

    Strand-Based Hair and Brows

    OMG! It's Don Knotts! (aka Barney Fife)

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165
    Vially said:
    barbult said:

    I finished my portrait with the Strand-Based thinning comb-over and the wild eyebrows. I used the same eyebrows I created before, but I restyled them. The hair is new. This character is based on Ollie 8 with some morph tweaks.

    Gallery Image

    Strand-Based Hair and Brows

    OMG! It's Don Knotts! (aka Barney Fife)

    I didn't set out to create him, but the same thought crossed my mind after rendering!
  • nonesuch00nonesuch00 Posts: 18,714

    cloth dForce is much too slow. It's very slow.

  • ViallyVially Posts: 343
    barbult said:
    Vially said:
    barbult said:

    I finished my portrait with the Strand-Based thinning comb-over and the wild eyebrows. I used the same eyebrows I created before, but I restyled them. The hair is new. This character is based on Ollie 8 with some morph tweaks.

    Gallery Image

    Strand-Based Hair and Brows

    OMG! It's Don Knotts! (aka Barney Fife)

     

    I didn't set out to create him, but the same thought crossed my mind after rendering!

    And btw, VERY nice work. May not have been intentional, but there is a studio picture of Mr. Knotts that this is "almost" an exact replica of. He had more hair, but the face is uncanny.

  • WendyLuvsCatzWendyLuvsCatz Posts: 40,014
    edited May 2019

    cloth dForce is much too slow. It's very slow.

    and gives me a BSOD angry

    I won't be trying that again on DS strand hair

    it's dodgy enough on Zbrush hair but it only crashes DS at worst not my whole computer

    Post edited by WendyLuvsCatz on
  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165

    This is my latest creation with hair, eyebrows and beard created by the Strand-Based Hair Editor.

    Short hair, eyebrows and beard

  • ViallyVially Posts: 343

    Interesting things I have discovered that may or may not be helpfull to someone.

    1. Under the styling section, if first row of options will allow you to select a single styling strand. Once selected (turns green) any and all of the styling tools can be used on that SINGLE Hair...
    2. Any and all of the style tools in the bottom row of the "Style Curve Tools:" can be used without actually selecting any hairs. Click in an open area near your model and drag the mouse left or right to adjust a + or - value to the ENTIRE style.
    3. Using the paintbrush comb with a mouse is like trying to get spaghetti to all go in the same direction with the dull edge of a spoon. It is however very good for doing "final shaping" by clicking outside of the brush range, and slowly bringing it in close enough to "push" hairs into place...
    4. It is so very easy to get an undesired part that must have been created by an axe.
    5. Undo is SORELY needed... like really, yesterday even.

    That's it for now.

  • barbultbarbult Posts: 26,165
    Undo works on most tools in the editor, but once you leave the editor, there is no undo in DS. I like to make a copy of the hair (edit/duplucate) and edit that copy, so if I don't like the edit, I can delete that copy and try again.
  • zombietaggerungzombietaggerung Posts: 3,844

    @barbult What are your render times like with all the strand hair? And if I may be so bold; how much RAM do you have and what sort of graphics card? All this looks great, but I really don't want my computer locking up with it. 

  • 3Diva3Diva Posts: 11,970

    Quicky hairstyle with the strand based hair - on the very lovely Kala 8! laugh

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