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No HD, No Peace! Or... A little peace? I dunno...

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  • kenshaw011267kenshaw011267 Posts: 3,805
    Drip said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    ravvenkitsune said:

    I've always thought that packaging them separately was a bit shady. I buy a lot of Daz stuff and it pisses me off to have to pay separately for a better version of the figure that I just purchased. I would much prefer that they price them a bit higher knowing that everyone would only use the better version. I honestly don't understand the logic behind the separation of the two.

    For some people the SD morphs and normal maps are all they need, and depending on how and where they are used HD morphs can impact performance.

    However, even if the HD morphs are included in (for example) the pro-package, they are not required to use the figure. The figure simply comes in two versions: normal and HD. Simply pick the one you need for the render you're working on. If someone wants to use HD morphs for a character that stands only 300 pixels tall on the screen, just to claim that the character is rendered in HD, then that's his or her problem, and if that person then whines about the long render times, I'll only laugh about his or her ignorance (and maybe even enjoy pointing out that ignorance).

    This. I seriously doubt most people use all the parts of a pro package. Including the HD model should simply be another pice of the pro package. people who don't want it are free to ignore as they surely do some of the other stuff in them.

  • scorpioscorpio Posts: 8,533
    kenshaw011267 said:
    Drip said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    ravvenkitsune said:

    I've always thought that packaging them separately was a bit shady. I buy a lot of Daz stuff and it pisses me off to have to pay separately for a better version of the figure that I just purchased. I would much prefer that they price them a bit higher knowing that everyone would only use the better version. I honestly don't understand the logic behind the separation of the two.

    For some people the SD morphs and normal maps are all they need, and depending on how and where they are used HD morphs can impact performance.

    However, even if the HD morphs are included in (for example) the pro-package, they are not required to use the figure. The figure simply comes in two versions: normal and HD. Simply pick the one you need for the render you're working on. If someone wants to use HD morphs for a character that stands only 300 pixels tall on the screen, just to claim that the character is rendered in HD, then that's his or her problem, and if that person then whines about the long render times, I'll only laugh about his or her ignorance (and maybe even enjoy pointing out that ignorance).

    This. I seriously doubt most people use all the parts of a pro package. Including the HD model should simply be another pice of the pro package. people who don't want it are free to ignore as they surely do some of the other stuff in them.

    If HD was included in addition too then thats fine - but if it replaces something else then that means those that are not likely to use the HD are losing out on something else.

  • DripDrip Posts: 1,260
    scorpio said:
    kenshaw011267 said:
    Drip said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    ravvenkitsune said:

    I've always thought that packaging them separately was a bit shady. I buy a lot of Daz stuff and it pisses me off to have to pay separately for a better version of the figure that I just purchased. I would much prefer that they price them a bit higher knowing that everyone would only use the better version. I honestly don't understand the logic behind the separation of the two.

    For some people the SD morphs and normal maps are all they need, and depending on how and where they are used HD morphs can impact performance.

    However, even if the HD morphs are included in (for example) the pro-package, they are not required to use the figure. The figure simply comes in two versions: normal and HD. Simply pick the one you need for the render you're working on. If someone wants to use HD morphs for a character that stands only 300 pixels tall on the screen, just to claim that the character is rendered in HD, then that's his or her problem, and if that person then whines about the long render times, I'll only laugh about his or her ignorance (and maybe even enjoy pointing out that ignorance).

    This. I seriously doubt most people use all the parts of a pro package. Including the HD model should simply be another pice of the pro package. people who don't want it are free to ignore as they surely do some of the other stuff in them.

    If HD was included in addition too then thats fine - but if it replaces something else then that means those that are not likely to use the HD are losing out on something else.

    Every pro-pack has bits and pieces that several of the customers buying the product probably won't ever use. Looking through my library, I can find one or more such items in most pro-packs I purchased so far. And I'm not even counting the poses, since there's a bigger chance that some pose eventually turns out to be usefult (out of convenience, I could make any pose myself, the posepacks just give a chance to have it ready to go, instead of wasting time creating it from scratch), than that I use some outfit or character morph that just doesn't match my preferences.

  • FSMCDesignsFSMCDesigns Posts: 12,852
    kenshaw011267 said:
    Drip said:
    Richard Haseltine said:
    ravvenkitsune said:

    I've always thought that packaging them separately was a bit shady. I buy a lot of Daz stuff and it pisses me off to have to pay separately for a better version of the figure that I just purchased. I would much prefer that they price them a bit higher knowing that everyone would only use the better version. I honestly don't understand the logic behind the separation of the two.

    For some people the SD morphs and normal maps are all they need, and depending on how and where they are used HD morphs can impact performance.

    However, even if the HD morphs are included in (for example) the pro-package, they are not required to use the figure. The figure simply comes in two versions: normal and HD. Simply pick the one you need for the render you're working on. If someone wants to use HD morphs for a character that stands only 300 pixels tall on the screen, just to claim that the character is rendered in HD, then that's his or her problem, and if that person then whines about the long render times, I'll only laugh about his or her ignorance (and maybe even enjoy pointing out that ignorance).

    This. I seriously doubt most people use all the parts of a pro package. Including the HD model should simply be another pice of the pro package. people who don't want it are free to ignore as they surely do some of the other stuff in them.

    That is one of the reasons I rarely purchase a pro bundle, usually there are things in it i have no interest or need in. That and I "LIKE" creating my own characters so the character DAZ puts out has to really bring somehitng great to the gene pool.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    Drip said:
    scorpio said:

    If HD was included in addition too then thats fine - but if it replaces something else then that means those that are not likely to use the HD are losing out on something else.

    Every pro-pack has bits and pieces that several of the customers buying the product probably won't ever use. Looking through my library, I can find one or more such items in most pro-packs I purchased so far. And I'm not even counting the poses, since there's a bigger chance that some pose eventually turns out to be usefult (out of convenience, I could make any pose myself, the posepacks just give a chance to have it ready to go, instead of wasting time creating it from scratch), than that I use some outfit or character morph that just doesn't match my preferences.

    And therein lies the problem; how does DAZ3D satisfy so many varied buyers? Some folks, like me, see everything included in the Pro Bundle (minus the Anatomical Elements) as a potentially useful product, even if I don't see the particular need for it at the moment of purchase. Others see that the HD is more useful than one or more of the included figure morphs, or poses, or whatever. And, for what it's worth, DAZ has included the HD Figure with at least 5 DAZ Original figures that I've found in the store, so it's not like they can't include it if they really saw that it was financially worthwhile to do so.

  • CometsComets Posts: 87

    A compromise could be readily achieved which would satisfy both camps with a create your own pro bundle approach. Take the starter bundle and a pool of the 5 addons which would normally comprise the pro pack. Add the HD morph to that pool. Of the six packages the customer chooses 5 to add to the starter bundle to convert it into the Pro bundle. That way Daz controls and effectively delivers what they would want in the pro bundle, and people won't be feeling they are missing out if the HD morph is included.

     

     

  • Fae3DFae3D Posts: 2,900
    Comets said:

    A compromise could be readily achieved which would satisfy both camps with a create your own pro bundle approach. Take the starter bundle and a pool of the 5 addons which would normally comprise the pro pack. Add the HD morph to that pool. Of the six packages the customer chooses 5 to add to the starter bundle to convert it into the Pro bundle. That way Daz controls and effectively delivers what they would want in the pro bundle, and people won't be feeling they are missing out if the HD morph is included.

     

     

    I think this would be a great idea.  I would love to be able to switch out a pose set or a hair I don't care for and instead get the HD morphs!

  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Serene Night said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

    I guess I can't doubt it - I can tell right away when I wear some types of men's pants that there's a spare "pocket" I don't have anything to carry in. 

    I was going to load two characters to see if I could tell the difference, but even though I could swear I've accidentally been winkied before, I can't find one on any of my characters >.>;;

  • Fae3DFae3D Posts: 2,900
    edited February 2019

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

     

    Can I ask a stupid question?  How do you get the pants to cover the "parts"?  Everytime I load them up, they stick out of everything I put on the character (I'm using Genesis 3, BTW, if that makes a difference).  I'd love for my guys to look more realistic there, but not show off everything they've got...

    Post edited by Fae3D on
  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

     

    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

    I guess I can't doubt it - I can tell right away when I wear some types of men's pants that there's a spare "pocket" I don't have anything to carry in. 

    I was going to load two characters to see if I could tell the difference, but even though I could swear I've accidentally been winkied before, I can't find one on any of my characters >.>;;

    G8 males don’t load with their gens on. 

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    edited February 2019
    Faeofthe3rdDimension said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

     

    Can I ask a stupid question?  How do you get the pants to cover the "parts"?  Everytime I load them up, they stick out of everything I put on the character (I'm using Genesis 3, BTW, if that makes a difference).  I'd love for my guys to look more realistic there, but not show off everything they've got...

    sadly it doesnt work on all clothing, and works best on things like swimsuits and short and underwear. The trick is you have to move the elements around so they are kind of pushed back into the figure. The idea is to have a suggestion that something is there but the reality is it likely would be rather painful. surprise

    Then you turn smoothing up on the clothing item. Sometimes use a touch If bulge as well if the clothing item has the morph,

    you can also use bulge morphs on the figures. but they don’t have as much detail as the method describe, but may be appropriate for thicker clothing.

     

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • DaikatanaDaikatana Posts: 830

    I prefer that the HD morph be included in the pro bundles. Since they are basically another option of the base character the bundle is built around, it makes sense to have it included.  I dont use them often but I do like them for close up renders.

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    Comets said:

    A compromise could be readily achieved which would satisfy both camps with a create your own pro bundle approach. Take the starter bundle and a pool of the 5 addons which would normally comprise the pro pack. Add the HD morph to that pool. Of the six packages the customer chooses 5 to add to the starter bundle to convert it into the Pro bundle. That way Daz controls and effectively delivers what they would want in the pro bundle, and people won't be feeling they are missing out if the HD morph is included.

     

     

    I would love to see this option.
  • Fae3DFae3D Posts: 2,900
    Serene Night said:
    Faeofthe3rdDimension said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

     

    Can I ask a stupid question?  How do you get the pants to cover the "parts"?  Everytime I load them up, they stick out of everything I put on the character (I'm using Genesis 3, BTW, if that makes a difference).  I'd love for my guys to look more realistic there, but not show off everything they've got...

    sadly it doesnt work on all clothing, and works best on things like swimsuits and short and underwear. The trick is you have to move the elements around so they are kind of pushed back into the figure. The idea is to have a suggestion that something is there but the reality is it likely would be rather painful. surprise

    Then you turn smoothing up on the clothing item. Sometimes use a touch If bulge as well if the clothing item has the morph,

    you can also use bulge morphs on the figures. but they don’t have as much detail as the method describe, but may be appropriate for thicker clothing.

     

    Ah, ok.  It seems to me this should be easier.  Oh well.  Thanks!  Sorry for going a bit OT.

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704

    It definitely could be easier but Once you have the elements positioned and saved it really isn’t hard at all.

  • AJ2112AJ2112 Posts: 1,417
    Daywalker Designs said:
    AJ2112 said:

    I've never purchased HD.  What is HD and how is it used ? thanks. 

     

    HD, as handled by DAZ Studio, is a way of adding details to a model that is independent of the textures applied to the figure. Instead of using a normal map for details, the additional details are sculpted into the model at a much higher subdivision level than is usually used by DAZ Studio. This higher detail model becomes the basis for an HD morph for the character.

    Thanks so much for explaination friend.  Will have to give it a try smiley

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    AJ2112 said:
    Daywalker Designs said:
    AJ2112 said:

    I've never purchased HD.  What is HD and how is it used ? thanks. 

     

    HD, as handled by DAZ Studio, is a way of adding details to a model that is independent of the textures applied to the figure. Instead of using a normal map for details, the additional details are sculpted into the model at a much higher subdivision level than is usually used by DAZ Studio. This higher detail model becomes the basis for an HD morph for the character.

    Thanks so much for explaination friend.  Will have to give it a try smiley

    Not a problem. Just because I'm not going to use it doesn't mean I can't help folks that want to learn more about it.
  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Serene Night said:
    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

     

    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

    I guess I can't doubt it - I can tell right away when I wear some types of men's pants that there's a spare "pocket" I don't have anything to carry in. 

    I was going to load two characters to see if I could tell the difference, but even though I could swear I've accidentally been winkied before, I can't find one on any of my characters >.>;;

    G8 males don’t load with their gens on. 

    I know - that's what I was so happy about in the comment that started this sub-conversation.  What I'm saying is I can't find how to add them, now, at all.

     

  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Daywalker Designs said:
    Comets said:

    A compromise could be readily achieved which would satisfy both camps with a create your own pro bundle approach. Take the starter bundle and a pool of the 5 addons which would normally comprise the pro pack. Add the HD morph to that pool. Of the six packages the customer chooses 5 to add to the starter bundle to convert it into the Pro bundle. That way Daz controls and effectively delivers what they would want in the pro bundle, and people won't be feeling they are missing out if the HD morph is included.

    I would love to see this option.

    I would perform a ritual sacrifice to the god of goddess of your choosing for this option.

  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Daywalker Designs said:
    I was the one who complained, and I still believe that it should be optional. But that's just my opinion.

    They're always optional, though... If you don't like 'em, don't load 'em.  I suppose if _no_ figured came with HD included (and remember, they're not part of the pro pack, they come with the base figure, at no extra cost) the I could see saying "Why am I paying for the HD morphs? I don't want them...!" (Well, if, for some reason, I didn't want them, I mean...) 

    But when several figures have HD included at the base price and all these other figures don't, but have the same base price? Now if feels like we're being ripped off for HD on all the other ones. 

  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Daywalker Designs said:
    AJ2112 said:

    I've never purchased HD.  What is HD and how is it used ? thanks. 

     

    HD, as handled by DAZ Studio, is a way of adding details to a model that is independent of the textures applied to the figure. Instead of using a normal map for details, the additional details are sculpted into the model at a much higher subdivision level than is usually used by DAZ Studio. This higher detail model becomes the basis for an HD morph for the character.

    What's hidden away in the actual files... Do they replace the OBJ file and it's geometry, or add normals or bump, or is the data in the model to begin with adn the HD files just allow another LOD, basically?

     

  • Serene NightSerene Night Posts: 17,704
    edited March 2019
    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:
    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

     

    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

    I guess I can't doubt it - I can tell right away when I wear some types of men's pants that there's a spare "pocket" I don't have anything to carry in. 

    I was going to load two characters to see if I could tell the difference, but even though I could swear I've accidentally been winkied before, I can't find one on any of my characters >.>;;

    G8 males don’t load with their gens on. 

    I know - that's what I was so happy about in the comment that started this sub-conversation.  What I'm saying is I can't find how to add them, now, at all.

     

    They don’t add when you click on the figure and select the elements option from the anatomy folder? 

    Post edited by Serene Night on
  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    DigitalSteam said:
    Daywalker Designs said:
    I was the one who complained, and I still believe that it should be optional. But that's just my opinion.

    They're always optional, though... If you don't like 'em, don't load 'em.  I suppose if _no_ figured came with HD included (and remember, they're not part of the pro pack, they come with the base figure, at no extra cost) the I could see saying "Why am I paying for the HD morphs? I don't want them...!" (Well, if, for some reason, I didn't want them, I mean...)

    But when several figures have HD included at the base price and all these other figures don't, but have the same base price? Now if feels like we're being ripped off for HD on all the other ones. 

    That's your take on it; mine is that if I buy the base figure and it includes a separate download for the HD, I did buy the HD. It doesn't matter if the cost is higher or the same as another base figure that didn't include it. As for why DAZ3D stopped including it after doing so with about a half dozen or so figures, perhaps they had decided to see if including it would increase the overall sales of the figures and got the information they sought.

  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Serene Night said:
    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:
    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

     

    DigitalSteam said:
    Serene Night said:

    I can tell right away if a male character has his elements by looking at his groin...

    I guess I can't doubt it - I can tell right away when I wear some types of men's pants that there's a spare "pocket" I don't have anything to carry in. 

    I was going to load two characters to see if I could tell the difference, but even though I could swear I've accidentally been winkied before, I can't find one on any of my characters >.>;;

    G8 males don’t load with their gens on. 

    I know - that's what I was so happy about in the comment that started this sub-conversation.  What I'm saying is I can't find how to add them, now, at all.

     

    They don’t add when you click on the figure and select the elements option from the anatomy folder? 

    I guess maybe they only are included if you buy the Pro package? My pro figures have 'em, everyone else is a perma-eunuch. Well, you know. Eunuch-plus? Minus? Whatever. :)

  • DigitalSteamDigitalSteam Posts: 299
    Daywalker Designs said:
    DigitalSteam said:
    Daywalker Designs said:
     

    That's your take on it; mine is that if I buy the base figure and it includes a separate download for the HD, I did buy the HD. It doesn't matter if the cost is higher or the same as another base figure that didn't include it. 

    This has me kind of staring at the screen and blinking.  If there are two things, side by side, both ten bucks, and one includes a widget and the other doesn't, how do you logically get to "OMG, why are you making me pay extra for a widget I don't want!?!"

    As to the test marketing, I'm fairly sure you're right. And I'm partly to blame along with everyone else who buys an HD add-on as an add-on.  :(

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    DigitalSteam said:
    Daywalker Designs said:
    DigitalSteam said:
    Daywalker Designs said:
     

    That's your take on it; mine is that if I buy the base figure and it includes a separate download for the HD, I did buy the HD. It doesn't matter if the cost is higher or the same as another base figure that didn't include it. 

    This has me kind of staring at the screen and blinking.  If there are two things, side by side, both ten bucks, and one includes a widget and the other doesn't, how do you logically get to "OMG, why are you making me pay extra for a widget I don't want!?!"

    As to the test marketing, I'm fairly sure you're right. And I'm partly to blame along with everyone else who buys an HD add-on as an add-on.  :(

    If what's added to a bundle is something I would have bought anyway at some point, it's worth it. If it's not, it's not worth it to me. It's really that simple.
  • davidtriunedavidtriune Posts: 452

    i'd totally buy pro bundles more often if hd were included with them

  • Daywalker DesignsDaywalker Designs Posts: 3,586
    davidtriune said:

    i'd totally buy pro bundles more often if hd were included with them

    DAZ3D would need to see a sizable increase in people buying the HD add-ons at the same time as they buy the bundle to see that it is worth doing, based on what I've been able to determine.
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